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On July 21 2011 18:06 SafeAsCheese wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 18:04 KeksX wrote:On July 21 2011 18:03 starcraft2rush wrote:On July 21 2011 18:02 KeksX wrote:On July 21 2011 18:01 Demonace34 wrote:On July 21 2011 17:58 vrok wrote:On July 21 2011 17:34 setzer wrote:On July 21 2011 17:28 Stuv wrote:
It makes you wonder what EG gets from this deal. I dont think he will live with the other EG-members so they have an extra practice partner. So it is purely for promotion during tournaments. He is a great player though so kudo's to EG. They want to fly Puma and have him win tournaments since no one else besides Idra is capable of doing that. Idra is capable of winning LAN tournaments? Source please. How many MLG's has there been? Wait, did he win one of those....last year maybe? Against foreigners, maybe? Then suddenly koreans, IdrA not winning. A coincidence? Idra got 4th.?? everyone else got fukin slaughtered by the koreans as well. The point is that IdrA can't stand against the koreans constantly, he is not at their level. How is that going to help against koreans? Yea sure, PuMa will beat foreigners, too, but he won't be able to beat koreans constantly by just practicing with bad players. Why do you want SC2 to fail outside of korea so hard? Why not give foreign teams a chance to take the game seriously before the whole "puma will turn to shit without korean practice partners" line?
Because the only foreigner to even come close to Korean-level is Sen (besides Huk and Jinro), and he practices on the Korean ladder.
I think Puma will be fine if he stays in Korea and continues to ladder there, but I don't know how well he'd do if he loses access to the server.
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On July 21 2011 18:05 Taf the Ghost wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 17:53 Kairos~ wrote:On July 21 2011 17:52 MrBorto wrote:
Upsetting the entire Korean community is not exactly a wise move.
This seems like the key problem. In the short term how comfortable are korean teams going to be now sending players to events like MLG? The future of these exchanges are literally at stake with this type of business practice. I wonder who EG is going to snatch up at Anaheim. (: The terms "D" "R" and "G" come to mind. That'd be nuts, lol.
Now i know why scoots wants to be in the Team Liquid player lounge so desperately.
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Wow. Although I guess `all's fair in love, war and un-regulated e-sports transfers' I think there will definitely be a stronger response from the Korean player/team community than there would have been if EG had gone through a more open procedure.
Maybe then EG wouldn't have got their man, but I guess we'll see in the end if it was worth it all.
Does make me feel icky to hear about it though, not great for PR  (obvious from the amount of replies on this thread).
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Maybe if puma/gentleman had code S it might have been different
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On July 21 2011 18:04 KeksX wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 18:03 starcraft2rush wrote:On July 21 2011 18:02 KeksX wrote:On July 21 2011 18:01 Demonace34 wrote:On July 21 2011 17:58 vrok wrote:On July 21 2011 17:34 setzer wrote:On July 21 2011 17:28 Stuv wrote:
It makes you wonder what EG gets from this deal. I dont think he will live with the other EG-members so they have an extra practice partner. So it is purely for promotion during tournaments. He is a great player though so kudo's to EG. They want to fly Puma and have him win tournaments since no one else besides Idra is capable of doing that. Idra is capable of winning LAN tournaments? Source please. How many MLG's has there been? Wait, did he win one of those....last year maybe? Against foreigners, maybe? Then suddenly koreans, IdrA not winning. A coincidence? Idra got 4th.?? everyone else got fukin slaughtered by the koreans as well. The point is that IdrA can't stand against the koreans constantly, he is not at their level. How is that going to help against koreans? Yea sure, PuMa will beat foreigners, too, but he won't be able to beat koreans constantly by just practicing with bad players.
How do you know what his practice is going to be like? Who is left on TSL to practice with?? clide? who else? Tester and fruitdealer already left. IT - WAS- ALREADY-CLEAR. TSL is dying.
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On July 21 2011 18:07 KeksX wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 18:06 SafeAsCheese wrote:On July 21 2011 18:04 KeksX wrote:On July 21 2011 18:03 starcraft2rush wrote:On July 21 2011 18:02 KeksX wrote:On July 21 2011 18:01 Demonace34 wrote:On July 21 2011 17:58 vrok wrote:On July 21 2011 17:34 setzer wrote:On July 21 2011 17:28 Stuv wrote:
It makes you wonder what EG gets from this deal. I dont think he will live with the other EG-members so they have an extra practice partner. So it is purely for promotion during tournaments. He is a great player though so kudo's to EG. They want to fly Puma and have him win tournaments since no one else besides Idra is capable of doing that. Idra is capable of winning LAN tournaments? Source please. How many MLG's has there been? Wait, did he win one of those....last year maybe? Against foreigners, maybe? Then suddenly koreans, IdrA not winning. A coincidence? Idra got 4th.?? everyone else got fukin slaughtered by the koreans as well. The point is that IdrA can't stand against the koreans constantly, he is not at their level. How is that going to help against koreans? Yea sure, PuMa will beat foreigners, too, but he won't be able to beat koreans constantly by just practicing with bad players. Why do you want SC2 to fail outside of korea so hard? Why not give foreign teams a chance to take the game seriously before the whole "puma will turn to shit without korean practice partners" line? I don't want SC2 to fail, it's just that foreigners are clearly not able to compete with the koreans. They have shitty practice conditions and also focus on marketing/PR way too much. To say it in the words of an ancient member: Foreigners still suck.
And how do they get better? By GETTING GOOD PLAYERS AND TEAM HOUSES.
This is what EG is doing.
If your logic is that Real practice + Team house = bad players because they are not in korea, you are being kinda racist.
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On July 21 2011 18:07 CellTech wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 17:53 hYdrA-MeNo wrote:On July 21 2011 17:47 vnlegend wrote:
Pretty dirty move by EG. This only reinforces the Koreans hatred for Idra and co. I suppose the Koreans are too used to their customs with management discussions and free agency periods.
They can prevent this kind of poaching by having team members sign more binding contracts. How is it dirty???? EG offered more benefit to puma than tsl ever could.... I bet your a guy that blames lebron for leaving Cleveland also..... lol Who's fault was it then? Lebron made a decision along with Bosh and Wade at the Olympics that they (Bosh and Lebron) sign contracts that would end at the same time, so they could all be on the same team. Lebron abandoned his HOME TOWN in hopes of getting an easy win.
Look, you guys obviously don't understand. LeBron is hated as much as he's hated because of HOW he left Cleveland, not WHY.
This is the same reasoning with PuMa. It's HOW he left, not WHY. It's very obvious why he left. He got a better offer at EG. It's HOW he left, and HOW EG went straight to him that is disrespectful.
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On July 21 2011 18:07 I)etox wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 18:06 SafeAsCheese wrote:On July 21 2011 18:04 KeksX wrote:On July 21 2011 18:03 starcraft2rush wrote:On July 21 2011 18:02 KeksX wrote:On July 21 2011 18:01 Demonace34 wrote:On July 21 2011 17:58 vrok wrote:On July 21 2011 17:34 setzer wrote:On July 21 2011 17:28 Stuv wrote:
It makes you wonder what EG gets from this deal. I dont think he will live with the other EG-members so they have an extra practice partner. So it is purely for promotion during tournaments. He is a great player though so kudo's to EG. They want to fly Puma and have him win tournaments since no one else besides Idra is capable of doing that. Idra is capable of winning LAN tournaments? Source please. How many MLG's has there been? Wait, did he win one of those....last year maybe? Against foreigners, maybe? Then suddenly koreans, IdrA not winning. A coincidence? Idra got 4th.?? everyone else got fukin slaughtered by the koreans as well. The point is that IdrA can't stand against the koreans constantly, he is not at their level. How is that going to help against koreans? Yea sure, PuMa will beat foreigners, too, but he won't be able to beat koreans constantly by just practicing with bad players. Why do you want SC2 to fail outside of korea so hard? Why not give foreign teams a chance to take the game seriously before the whole "puma will turn to shit without korean practice partners" line? because he will.
Have faith in EG. They are entering a team house of their own and I think they will improve vastly over the next couple of months.
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On July 21 2011 18:04 trikshun wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 18:02 Beyonder wrote:On July 21 2011 17:49 Sententia wrote:
Puma isn't just an object auctioned for the highest bidder, if he had wanted to stay in TSL he could easily have done so regardless of the pay raise EG offered. My bet is that Puma wanted to be on a more successful team, practicing with better players. I wouldnt become a professional gambler. EG has exactly one decent practice partner  You are calling DeMuslim bad? and idrA decent? He is probably one of the top 5 foreigners in SC2
I would say that. Although because Demuslim was hurt we can't assume hes good or bad so I just ignore the fact that hes even there. We have to see how he does at MLG to see if hes good/bad.
And i'd call idra better than decent.
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On July 21 2011 18:08 jmbthirteen wrote:
But Puma told the TSL manager he wanted to be released so he could join EG. Sure EG didn't directly contact TSL, but they had Puma do it for them.
Yeah, and it wasn't a good thing.
/understatement
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101 pages of stubid and pointless shitstorming this is even worse than the comments of rebecca blacks videos
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On July 21 2011 18:01 IcedBacon wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 17:55 yeint wrote:On July 21 2011 17:49 IcedBacon wrote:
I like how 99% of the people posting about this have absolutely no knowledge or experience with how korean culture works. It's not the same guys. The dumb analogy with the employer? Doesn't work when it's between the West and the East. Time to go to bed. Just because the corporate culture in Asia loves to exploit their cultural propensity for respect of one's elders doesn't make it okay. It's tantamount to defending good ol' boy white male preferentialism because it's rooted in regional cultural values. The "employer/employee" relationship isn't an analogy, it's a fact. This isn't a martial arts movie, this is real life. People need to earn money to live, and they do so by working for organizations that pay them for it. Ah, complete disrespect of another culture. Sorry but not everyone is greedy like in the West.
I am not disrespecting another culture. And I am not American.
I am saying that greedy profiteers exploit their employees by painting their relationship as a "respect your elders" one.
So you know how in this recession in the USA, CEOs are giving themselves and other high-ranking employees raises when there's no spare cash to be throwing around? Well there was some article about a Japanese CEO (of a huge company, FYI) who lowered his pay to either that of the average employee or even to nothing (can't remember which one it was) and had his lunch in the common cafeteria with the average employees.
Weaboo alert. While you're throwing around caricatures of how Japanese CEOs are all altruists and all western businesses are corrupt robber barons, how about you explain the massive suicide rates in these magical Japanese "business families".
Family and respect, not individualism and capitalism.
Bullshit. Your employer is not your family. Your family is your family. Just like individualism in the West is taken to an extreme at times by despicable and greedy assholes, so are Asian collectivist values exploited by greedy and power-hungry assholes.
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On July 21 2011 18:04 Namu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 18:03 Tachion wrote:On July 21 2011 17:59 Namu wrote:On July 21 2011 17:59 Tachion wrote:On July 21 2011 17:58 Namu wrote:On July 21 2011 17:57 Tachion wrote:
Players like Sheth and QXC left ROOT for FXO because of money and travel expenses etc which ROOT couldn't provide. FXOBoss sure didn't consult drewbie and catz and ask them for their permission.
Is this a disrespecting Korean ethics thing? Cause stuff like this is very common when players switch teams in the west. uh no its not, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tampering_(sport) I'm talking about the starcraft scene ;o yeah cause the west surely has a good starcraft scene infrastructure that everyone should follow right? more like there's basically no structure because there's no governing body... And what infrastructure is there in the Korean scene? It's already been stated that their players weren't even under contract. Their scene right now is basically throw a bunch of guys in a house together for practice and that's that. that's my entire point, there IS no structure, and you're saying this incidence is fine because it's fine in the west, where there is ALSO no structure? your point makes no sense
I never said it was fine, what are you talking about? I asked if it was just a difference in cultural ethics. EG is obviously doing business with puma as many other westerns team would have done, and tons of people are furious about it.
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On July 21 2011 18:08 hYdrA-MeNo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 18:06 Namu wrote:On July 21 2011 18:05 hYdrA-MeNo wrote:On July 21 2011 18:02 Namu wrote:On July 21 2011 18:01 jmbthirteen wrote:On July 21 2011 17:58 Namu wrote:On July 21 2011 17:57 Tachion wrote:
Players like Sheth and QXC left ROOT for FXO because of money and travel expenses etc which ROOT couldn't provide. FXOBoss sure didn't consult drewbie and catz and ask them for their permission.
Is this a disrespecting Korean ethics thing? Cause stuff like this is very common when players switch teams in the west. uh no its not, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tampering_(sport) Except there are no rules in place to say EG tampered... we're comparing scenes here, obviously? I know there are no rules in place to say EG tampered, but talking in comparison, that is EXACTLY what EG did (assuming the content in OP is correct). Now assuming Puma did not have a binding contract, it's obviously legally not a problem, but morally? not so sure.. Morals??!?!?!? lol Your thinking like PUMA owes something to TSL..... He owes them nothing and EG has the right to try an make their team the best possible team they can please explain to me what they did wrong? They talked to puma when they were close? ohhhhhh noooooooo -.-..... i guess this is a conflict of our sense of morality.. can't really argue about that It would be a conflict if morals played a role here but they didn't.... EG asked hey wanna play for us... Puma thought about and said yes...... TSL has no contract with puma or anything over puma why should puma stay with TSL if he chooses not to.... take your emotions out of it since your not affected and look at it logically...
Youre completely right. Oh wait, you dont know that TSL had no contract?
Wait, disregard that youre talking about stuff you dont know anything about.
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On July 21 2011 17:58 Duravi wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 17:56 wats0n wrote:On July 21 2011 17:46 papaz wrote:
But unfortunately this is bad for Puma as a player. Look at his practice partners in EG compared to TSL. Besides Idra, which imo isnt at the level of many of the current GSL players, there is nobody nameworthy. People keep saying this. Do you seriously think that EG isn't going to sign more players? This isn't going to be the final signing. Teams like EG have always gone after the best players. At a minimum they would need to sign another 2-3 top koreans to give Puma better or the same practice that he had at TSL. You honestly think that is going to happen?
Yes, I honestly think that is going to happen.
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The other employer/employee analogy does not really hold up here since there, you can find easily find another person around the same level of competence.
Meanwhile in the sporting sector, you are always looking for that rare premiere/upmost talent to nurture/educate/groom into a player/athlete that can take their team to new heights, something that grows rarer and rarer the more you go up the levels of competition.
Anyway, off to watch oGs-TL vs. Prime. Should be an interesting match
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wp EG 
more will come to the west
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So is Puma moving to the states or what. He can't practice for the GSL on his own in Korea. And EG has a very different team house than what he is used to. I see this as a very bad move, motivated by financial incentives+ Show Spoiler +.
Good luck PuMa. You'll need it.
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Definitely great addition for EG for bringing a player who is miles above the rest of their team. Still, the way they bought is a bit disrespectful.
Looking forward to MLG Anaheim and EG.DongRaeGu few weeks later.
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On July 21 2011 18:07 Jerubaal wrote:
I love all the RESPECT THE KOREAN CULTURE YOU GREEDY AMERICAN PIGS!!! comments.
It's not about korean culture... It's about respecting relationships. lol. If i was a pick up artist should I hit on your girlfriend?
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EPT
