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On July 21 2011 18:05 hYdrA-MeNo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 18:02 Namu wrote:On July 21 2011 18:01 jmbthirteen wrote:On July 21 2011 17:58 Namu wrote:On July 21 2011 17:57 Tachion wrote:
Players like Sheth and QXC left ROOT for FXO because of money and travel expenses etc which ROOT couldn't provide. FXOBoss sure didn't consult drewbie and catz and ask them for their permission.
Is this a disrespecting Korean ethics thing? Cause stuff like this is very common when players switch teams in the west. uh no its not, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tampering_(sport) Except there are no rules in place to say EG tampered... we're comparing scenes here, obviously? I know there are no rules in place to say EG tampered, but talking in comparison, that is EXACTLY what EG did (assuming the content in OP is correct). Now assuming Puma did not have a binding contract, it's obviously legally not a problem, but morally? not so sure.. Morals??!?!?!? lol Your thinking like PUMA owes something to TSL..... He owes them nothing and EG has the right to try an make their team the best possible team they can please explain to me what they did wrong? They talked to puma when they were close? ohhhhhh noooooooo -.-.....
i guess this is a conflict of our sense of morality.. can't really argue about that
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On July 21 2011 18:04 PeZuY wrote:
I undestand that TSL is falling apart, but EG not even contacting management just directly to the player. Wow... Really not sure how to react to this news personally.
Personally you shouldn't care ^^......
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On July 21 2011 18:04 Demonaz wrote:
Sounds like great news, I like the idea that Korean players are willing to join foreign teams now. Shows how strong the western e-sports scene has become. Adds to the global nature of current competition.
I guess from Puma's perspective, in Korea he has to fight through code B/A to get to any decent money from SC2 while by joining EG he can participate in lots of foreign tournaments and have more immediate success.
That's the problem. Immediate success might not translate into future, sustainable success. Puma might earn a quick buck by jumping ships but he's also giving up good practice partners.
Also this doesn't show how strong western e-sports is, rather it just shows western teams have fatter wallets.
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Just hope this doesn't stop Korean teams sending players to foreign events 
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On July 21 2011 18:04 KeksX wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 18:03 starcraft2rush wrote:On July 21 2011 18:02 KeksX wrote:On July 21 2011 18:01 Demonace34 wrote:On July 21 2011 17:58 vrok wrote:On July 21 2011 17:34 setzer wrote:On July 21 2011 17:28 Stuv wrote:
It makes you wonder what EG gets from this deal. I dont think he will live with the other EG-members so they have an extra practice partner. So it is purely for promotion during tournaments. He is a great player though so kudo's to EG. They want to fly Puma and have him win tournaments since no one else besides Idra is capable of doing that. Idra is capable of winning LAN tournaments? Source please. How many MLG's has there been? Wait, did he win one of those....last year maybe? Against foreigners, maybe? Then suddenly koreans, IdrA not winning. A coincidence? Idra got 4th.?? everyone else got fukin slaughtered by the koreans as well. The point is that IdrA can't stand against the koreans constantly, he is not at their level. How is that going to help against koreans? Yea sure, PuMa will beat foreigners, too, but he won't be able to beat koreans constantly by just practicing with bad players.
Why do you want SC2 to fail outside of korea so hard?
Why not give foreign teams a chance to take the game seriously before the whole "puma will turn to shit without korean practice partners" line?
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On July 21 2011 18:02 KeksX wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 18:01 Demonace34 wrote:On July 21 2011 17:58 vrok wrote:On July 21 2011 17:34 setzer wrote:On July 21 2011 17:28 Stuv wrote:
It makes you wonder what EG gets from this deal. I dont think he will live with the other EG-members so they have an extra practice partner. So it is purely for promotion during tournaments. He is a great player though so kudo's to EG. They want to fly Puma and have him win tournaments since no one else besides Idra is capable of doing that. Idra is capable of winning LAN tournaments? Source please. How many MLG's has there been? Wait, did he win one of those....last year maybe? Against foreigners, maybe? Then suddenly koreans, IdrA not winning. A coincidence? Not a good move by PuMa practice partner wise.
Yeah, the first tournament...weird that sample size is almost as big as my sample size of how many MLG he actually won. He has beat top Koreans before, so I don't know why argue that point.
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On July 21 2011 17:53 hYdrA-MeNo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 17:47 vnlegend wrote:
Pretty dirty move by EG. This only reinforces the Koreans hatred for Idra and co. I suppose the Koreans are too used to their customs with management discussions and free agency periods.
They can prevent this kind of poaching by having team members sign more binding contracts. How is it dirty???? EG offered more benefit to puma than tsl ever could.... I bet your a guy that blames lebron for leaving Cleveland also..... lol
Who's fault was it then? Lebron made a decision along with Bosh and Wade at the Olympics that they (Bosh and Lebron) sign contracts that would end at the same time, so they could all be on the same team. Lebron abandoned his HOME TOWN in hopes of getting an easy win.
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On July 21 2011 18:06 SafeAsCheese wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 18:04 KeksX wrote:On July 21 2011 18:03 starcraft2rush wrote:On July 21 2011 18:02 KeksX wrote:On July 21 2011 18:01 Demonace34 wrote:On July 21 2011 17:58 vrok wrote:On July 21 2011 17:34 setzer wrote:On July 21 2011 17:28 Stuv wrote:
It makes you wonder what EG gets from this deal. I dont think he will live with the other EG-members so they have an extra practice partner. So it is purely for promotion during tournaments. He is a great player though so kudo's to EG. They want to fly Puma and have him win tournaments since no one else besides Idra is capable of doing that. Idra is capable of winning LAN tournaments? Source please. How many MLG's has there been? Wait, did he win one of those....last year maybe? Against foreigners, maybe? Then suddenly koreans, IdrA not winning. A coincidence? Idra got 4th.?? everyone else got fukin slaughtered by the koreans as well. The point is that IdrA can't stand against the koreans constantly, he is not at their level. How is that going to help against koreans? Yea sure, PuMa will beat foreigners, too, but he won't be able to beat koreans constantly by just practicing with bad players. Why do you want SC2 to fail outside of korea so hard? Why not give foreign teams a chance to take the game seriously before the whole "puma will turn to shit without korean practice partners" line?
because he will.
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On July 21 2011 18:01 IcedBacon wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 17:55 yeint wrote:On July 21 2011 17:49 IcedBacon wrote:
I like how 99% of the people posting about this have absolutely no knowledge or experience with how korean culture works. It's not the same guys. The dumb analogy with the employer? Doesn't work when it's between the West and the East. Time to go to bed. Just because the corporate culture in Asia loves to exploit their cultural propensity for respect of one's elders doesn't make it okay. It's tantamount to defending good ol' boy white male preferentialism because it's rooted in regional cultural values. The "employer/employee" relationship isn't an analogy, it's a fact. This isn't a martial arts movie, this is real life. People need to earn money to live, and they do so by working for organizations that pay them for it. Ah, complete disrespect of another culture. Sorry but not everyone is greedy like in the West. So you know how in this recession in the USA, CEOs are giving themselves and other high-ranking employees raises when there's no spare cash to be throwing around? Well there was some article about a Japanese CEO (of a huge company, FYI) who lowered his pay to either that of the average employee or even to nothing (can't remember which one it was) and had his lunch in the common cafeteria with the average employees. Something about respect and not wasting money when there's nothing to be spared. It's the same in Korea and plenty of other Asian countries. Family and respect, not individualism and capitalism.
Quality of arguments in this thread = terrible.
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Oh glorious drama. Either way, I love this move by EG. Beside the benefits for global eSports and bringing out Korean talent across the world, I'm loving how EG live up to their name.
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On July 21 2011 17:20 arbitrageur wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 17:19 Miah121 wrote:On July 21 2011 17:11 arbitrageur wrote:On July 21 2011 17:09 Haydin wrote:On July 21 2011 17:04 arbitrageur wrote:On July 21 2011 17:01 DystopiaX wrote:On July 21 2011 17:01 yeint wrote:On July 21 2011 16:58 Gamegene wrote:
Shit man, is it really that easy to steal a player by offering egregious sums of money without even talking to the team like you should?
I find it extremely shady. You can steal cars. You can't steal people. Because they are not property. Stop calling it theft, for fuck's sake. Breaking contract Elaborate, and then provide evidence for these assertions. You have such little information in your brain about the incident but you come to such conclusions somehow?. Breaking a contract only happens if you are not released from the contract. Puma was released from his contract by request. Also, consider that a player of puma's calibur might not have even been making a salary. $0 vs a steady income. If this is the case (which it may well not be, I'll admit), do people really want to see a top player like him be denied what he deserves? Exactly. Which is why I'm asking all the EG condemners here why poaching is a bad thing (i.e. taking players w/out consulting TSL mgmt). So many pepole are saying it's bad but can someone plz tell me why it's bad? Imagine your girlfriend went on a trip, and someone just approached her and asked her to be his girlfriend, and she accepted. No contract, not married. Sure, you feel like you've been betrayed, but it's not wrong, right? I've been betrayed by my girlfriend. The guy who approached her doesn't have to ring me and ask for my permission.. Lmao. So, can someone plz explain to me? I seriously want to know, not just being sarcastic. I don't think I nkow the asnwer either, just waiting for an explanation from the EG-condemners.
It really isn't all that hard to understand. A team supports a player when he is an unknown due to his promisse and potential, the risks involved if the player doesn't live up to the potential is taken by the team in good faith. When this player wins his first major tournament is the last moment you want to lose that player, especially wihtout even a pardon me. All the good faith that went into the building of talent is for nothing. When you as a player (or as a recruiting team) go behind the back of the coach who has put considerable effort into making the player what he is at the moment and behind the team which funded and made all that possible, you're basically spitting in their face. After this all teams will start to chain down their players with impossible to get out of contracts, and this is not good for the players nor for the community.
A lot of the popularity and growth of SC2 can be attributed to inter-team cooperation like oGs-Liquid and a lot of that cooperation is based on simple trust. What EG did takes a huge crap on initiatives like that one and in my opinion ultimately hurts us as a community.
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I love all the RESPECT THE KOREAN CULTURE YOU GREEDY AMERICAN PIGS!!! comments.
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On July 21 2011 18:04 GoBackToGo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 17:54 Vei wrote:
I feel like the ban on the "f5" post is really unwarrented.. that was posted when this thread was posted with little more than a title and a note that an update was coming -- he was just creatively expressing what everyone was thinking.... ugh.. exactly. if those "f5" guys had posted something like "cant wait for more infos", nothing would have happened. saying "F5!!!!!" is basically the same thing. not the first time on TL that i noticed someone was very proud of his banning abilities. grow up.
It's still a shit post regardless the intentions, doesn't add anything to the discussion, if you want to f5 the page, you don't need to tell everyone that you're pressing F5.
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On July 21 2011 18:05 Taf the Ghost wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 17:53 Kairos~ wrote:On July 21 2011 17:52 MrBorto wrote:
Upsetting the entire Korean community is not exactly a wise move.
This seems like the key problem. In the short term how comfortable are korean teams going to be now sending players to events like MLG? The future of these exchanges are literally at stake with this type of business practice. I wonder who EG is going to snatch up at Anaheim. (: The terms "D" "R" and "G" come to mind. That'd be nuts, lol.
TAKE THAT BACK!!! DRG is going to play in the GSTL for the rest of his life! Period! I will haunt whoever takes that away from us!
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On July 21 2011 18:06 SafeAsCheese wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 18:04 KeksX wrote:On July 21 2011 18:03 starcraft2rush wrote:On July 21 2011 18:02 KeksX wrote:On July 21 2011 18:01 Demonace34 wrote:On July 21 2011 17:58 vrok wrote:On July 21 2011 17:34 setzer wrote:On July 21 2011 17:28 Stuv wrote:
It makes you wonder what EG gets from this deal. I dont think he will live with the other EG-members so they have an extra practice partner. So it is purely for promotion during tournaments. He is a great player though so kudo's to EG. They want to fly Puma and have him win tournaments since no one else besides Idra is capable of doing that. Idra is capable of winning LAN tournaments? Source please. How many MLG's has there been? Wait, did he win one of those....last year maybe? Against foreigners, maybe? Then suddenly koreans, IdrA not winning. A coincidence? Idra got 4th.?? everyone else got fukin slaughtered by the koreans as well. The point is that IdrA can't stand against the koreans constantly, he is not at their level. How is that going to help against koreans? Yea sure, PuMa will beat foreigners, too, but he won't be able to beat koreans constantly by just practicing with bad players. Why do you want SC2 to fail outside of korea so hard? Why not give foreign teams a chance to take the game seriously before the whole "puma will turn to shit without korean practice partners" line?
I don't want SC2 to fail, it's just that foreigners are clearly not able to compete with the koreans on the highest level. Sooner or later they all lose vs better koreans.. They have shitty practice conditions and also focus on marketing/PR way too much.
To say it in the words of an ancient member:
Foreigners still suck.
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He's the winner of NASL Season 1 and plays Terran.
But I can totally understand Lee's reaction.
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On July 21 2011 18:06 SafeAsCheese wrote:
Why do you want SC2 to fail outside of korea so hard?
Why not give foreign teams a chance to take the game seriously before the whole "puma will turn to shit without korean practice partners" line?
Lol, saying that Foreigners aren't as good as Koreans isn't going to hurt E-Sports.
And if you honestly think that EG will provide as much competition for Gentleman as TSL did you're just dumb.
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10387 Posts
On July 21 2011 18:05 hYdrA-MeNo wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 18:02 Namu wrote:On July 21 2011 18:01 jmbthirteen wrote:On July 21 2011 17:58 Namu wrote:On July 21 2011 17:57 Tachion wrote:
Players like Sheth and QXC left ROOT for FXO because of money and travel expenses etc which ROOT couldn't provide. FXOBoss sure didn't consult drewbie and catz and ask them for their permission.
Is this a disrespecting Korean ethics thing? Cause stuff like this is very common when players switch teams in the west. uh no its not, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tampering_(sport) Except there are no rules in place to say EG tampered... we're comparing scenes here, obviously? I know there are no rules in place to say EG tampered, but talking in comparison, that is EXACTLY what EG did (assuming the content in OP is correct). Now assuming Puma did not have a binding contract, it's obviously legally not a problem, but morally? not so sure.. Morals??!?!?!? lol Your thinking like PUMA owes something to TSL..... He owes them nothing and EG has the right to try an make their team the best possible team they can please explain to me what they did wrong? They talked to puma when they were close? ohhhhhh noooooooo -.-.....
TSL provided Puma a place to stay and food to eat for free, along with really good practice partners, coaching and some salary (I think). I do think Puma owes something to TSL
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On July 21 2011 18:05 FinnGamer wrote:
I can understand that the TSL manager is angry, he just won a 50k tournament and he loses his player without being informed of the offer first.
I hope PuMa will have a good time on EG and that he joins the EG House
But Puma told the TSL manager he wanted to be released so he could join EG. Sure EG didn't directly contact TSL, but they had Puma do it for them.
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On July 21 2011 18:06 Namu wrote:Show nested quote +On July 21 2011 18:05 hYdrA-MeNo wrote:On July 21 2011 18:02 Namu wrote:On July 21 2011 18:01 jmbthirteen wrote:On July 21 2011 17:58 Namu wrote:On July 21 2011 17:57 Tachion wrote:
Players like Sheth and QXC left ROOT for FXO because of money and travel expenses etc which ROOT couldn't provide. FXOBoss sure didn't consult drewbie and catz and ask them for their permission.
Is this a disrespecting Korean ethics thing? Cause stuff like this is very common when players switch teams in the west. uh no its not, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tampering_(sport) Except there are no rules in place to say EG tampered... we're comparing scenes here, obviously? I know there are no rules in place to say EG tampered, but talking in comparison, that is EXACTLY what EG did (assuming the content in OP is correct). Now assuming Puma did not have a binding contract, it's obviously legally not a problem, but morally? not so sure.. Morals??!?!?!? lol Your thinking like PUMA owes something to TSL..... He owes them nothing and EG has the right to try an make their team the best possible team they can please explain to me what they did wrong? They talked to puma when they were close? ohhhhhh noooooooo -.-..... i guess this is a conflict of our sense of morality.. can't really argue about that
It would be a conflict if morals played a role here but they didn't.... EG asked hey wanna play for us... Puma thought about and said yes...... TSL has no contract with puma or anything over puma why should puma stay with TSL if he chooses not to.... take your emotions out of it since your not affected and look at it logically...
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EPT
