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Active: 1624 users

Puma leaves TSL for EG - Page 99

Forum Index > SC2 General
7189 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 97 98 99 100 101 360 Next
tripledoubles
Profile Joined May 2011
Australia213 Posts
July 21 2011 09:01 GMT
#1961
id like to know of the korean pros who have gone abroad so far, how many declined switching teams offers and for how much
jarrydesque
Profile Joined November 2010
584 Posts
July 21 2011 09:01 GMT
#1962
You have to laugh at all the tough guys putting on their grim faces and dropping the "it's business" like it's a 10 ton argument stopper. By saying things like that, you're actually showing that you have no idea what business is about. Any big corporation would want to be seen as ethical and reputable. Going around shafting people earns you a bad reputation which is bad for business. This is common sense.

I don't study law, but it is my understanding that an oral contract is no less binding than a written contract (as recognized by the law) with the only exception being through the Statute of Fraud - essentially denying that there was an agreement altogether. In my opinion, if you receive a salary from someone, there must be some sort of understanding, contract or no.

Aaaanyway, none of that really matters now, because it is done. There is nothing more to comment on until EG makes a statement.


#1 Kennigit fanboy/stalker
Demonace34
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States2493 Posts
July 21 2011 09:01 GMT
#1963
On July 21 2011 17:58 vrok wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 21 2011 17:34 setzer wrote:
On July 21 2011 17:28 Stuv wrote:
It makes you wonder what EG gets from this deal. I dont think he will live with the other EG-members so they have an extra practice partner. So it is purely for promotion during tournaments. He is a great player though so kudo's to EG.


They want to fly Puma and have him win tournaments since no one else besides Idra is capable of doing that.

Idra is capable of winning LAN tournaments? Source please.


How many MLG's has there been? Wait, did he win one of those....last year maybe?
NaNiwa|IdrA|HuK|iNcontroL|Jinro|NonY|Day[9]|PuMa|HerO|MMA|NesTea|NaDa|Boxer|Ryung|
hYdrA-MeNo
Profile Joined January 2010
Mexico344 Posts
July 21 2011 09:01 GMT
#1964
EG has the right to offer anyone anything and anyone has the ability to take or dismiss his offer. The people here flaming puma are not only moron but are people who dont understand the nature of competition.
Cant Tell you Whats good....But i can tell you what's what
TheKefka
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Croatia11752 Posts
July 21 2011 09:02 GMT
#1965
I just woke up and see the mother of all storms raging lol.
And it seemed like it would be a peace full day.
Oh well gz to EG.
Cackle™
Beyonder
Profile Blog Joined September 2002
Netherlands15103 Posts
July 21 2011 09:02 GMT
#1966
On July 21 2011 17:49 Sententia wrote:
Puma isn't just an object auctioned for the highest bidder, if he had wanted to stay in TSL he could easily have done so regardless of the pay raise EG offered. My bet is that Puma wanted to be on a more successful team, practicing with better players.

I wouldnt become a professional gambler. EG has exactly one decent practice partner
Moderator
Namu
Profile Joined February 2011
United States826 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-21 09:02:34
July 21 2011 09:02 GMT
#1967
On July 21 2011 18:01 jmbthirteen wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 21 2011 17:58 Namu wrote:
On July 21 2011 17:57 Tachion wrote:
Players like Sheth and QXC left ROOT for FXO because of money and travel expenses etc which ROOT couldn't provide. FXOBoss sure didn't consult drewbie and catz and ask them for their permission.
Is this a disrespecting Korean ethics thing? Cause stuff like this is very common when players switch teams in the west.


uh no its not, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tampering_(sport)

Except there are no rules in place to say EG tampered...


we're comparing scenes here, obviously? I know there are no rules in place to say EG tampered, but talking in comparison, that is EXACTLY what EG did (assuming the content in OP is correct). Now assuming Puma did not have a binding contract, it's obviously legally not a problem, but morally? not so sure..
starcraft2rush
Profile Joined February 2011
306 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-21 09:02:36
July 21 2011 09:02 GMT
#1968
It's pretty obvious none of the players on TSL were happy. Fruitdealer and Tester left for a reason.
farvacola
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States18857 Posts
July 21 2011 09:02 GMT
#1969
On July 21 2011 17:58 alexhard wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 21 2011 17:55 Hatorade wrote:
Happens all the time in sports, yeah maybe EG could have talked to the coach but at the end of the day Puma made the choice. You cannot blame EG really for pursuing a great player when they have the resources to pay him what he wants. Hopefully he does well with EG and hopefully TSL rebuilds and keeps doing well as well.


Actually it never happens in any other sport. Players are contracted and if other teams want them, they have to pay transfer fees.

And in those sports, players have agents and massive support systems, neither of which are available to the vast majority of pro gamers. In fact, tampering almost always includes action on the part of a players agent, meaning all of these people screaming "poaching" and "tampering" clearly have no idea how different e-sports is than athletics.
"when the Dead Kennedys found out they had skinhead fans, they literally wrote a song titled 'Nazi Punks Fuck Off'"
nam nam
Profile Joined June 2010
Sweden4672 Posts
July 21 2011 09:02 GMT
#1970
On July 21 2011 17:53 Iroh wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 21 2011 17:40 nam nam wrote:
On July 21 2011 17:33 Cuddle wrote:
I don't understand how this is terrible by either Puma or EG.

I have a job, I'm contracted and have a salary. I get job offers by other companies every now and then, I talk to them about what they offer and when I find something I prefer to my current work situation (be it better pay, better work environment or what have you) I go tell my current boss that I have gotten a better offer and I resign my position. According to basic Swedish employee law (which is in my contract) I have to stay on for 3 month after quitting (to give my employee a chance to find a replacement) BUT we can negotiate this time down to 0 days if both parts agree.

It seems like this was exactly what happened in the Puma-EG case and I don't see anything wrong with it, at all. If TSL wanted to hold Puma to his contract, they could probably have and EG would have had to wait until it expired. They chose not to, in agreement with Puma. Case closed.


This is what I've been trying to say only not as well. Of course you could argue that it's a little different for sports but just for the reasons you wrote I can't understand the rage that are being directed at EG.


It's very different in sport. If a team works it's butt off to get a player better, finally to see him win over some great players and win something like NASL, only to have him sniped away. Very different to the work place.

In any sport/esport the team is working to get these players better for the players and themselves and to have another team just pick them away after the harder work is done should be stopped. EG should of atleast talked to TSL first and shown interest and ask to speak to him. Without something like that starcraft 2 will not be as strong as players will just jump about and things like the GSTL could be dominated by 1 team and every season lineups be completely different (an over exaggeration but it *could* happen with it being like this).


The place I currently work at are very active in raising its employees know-how. We are sent to courses and seminars all the time and most of them aren't cheep. I fail to see how this is much different.
Gamegene
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States8308 Posts
July 21 2011 09:02 GMT
#1971
On July 21 2011 18:01 jarrydesque wrote:
You have to laugh at all the tough guys putting on their grim faces and dropping the "it's business" like it's a 10 ton argument stopper. By saying things like that, you're actually showing that you have no idea what business is about. Any big corporation would want to be seen as ethical and reputable. Going around shafting people earns you a bad reputation which is bad for business. This is common sense.

I don't study law, but it is my understanding that an oral contract is no less binding than a written contract (as recognized by the law) with the only exception being through the Statute of Fraud - essentially denying that there was an agreement altogether. In my opinion, if you receive a salary from someone, there must be some sort of understanding, contract or no.

Aaaanyway, none of that really matters now, because it is done. There is nothing more to comment on until EG makes a statement.


EG is one of the most visible E-Sports teams out there. They sure don't act like it.
Throw on your favorite jacket and you're good to roll. Stroll through the trees and let your miseries go.
Kairos~
Profile Joined June 2011
Canada129 Posts
July 21 2011 09:02 GMT
#1972
On July 21 2011 18:01 Demonace34 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 21 2011 17:58 vrok wrote:
On July 21 2011 17:34 setzer wrote:
On July 21 2011 17:28 Stuv wrote:
It makes you wonder what EG gets from this deal. I dont think he will live with the other EG-members so they have an extra practice partner. So it is purely for promotion during tournaments. He is a great player though so kudo's to EG.


They want to fly Puma and have him win tournaments since no one else besides Idra is capable of doing that.

Idra is capable of winning LAN tournaments? Source please.


How many MLG's has there been? Wait, did he win one of those....last year maybe?

Because if a player isn't winning first place in everything he is trash with that logic. You know your stuff guys.
Huge EG Fan Right Here ^
KeksX
Profile Blog Joined November 2010
Germany3634 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-07-21 09:03:44
July 21 2011 09:02 GMT
#1973
On July 21 2011 18:01 Demonace34 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 21 2011 17:58 vrok wrote:
On July 21 2011 17:34 setzer wrote:
On July 21 2011 17:28 Stuv wrote:
It makes you wonder what EG gets from this deal. I dont think he will live with the other EG-members so they have an extra practice partner. So it is purely for promotion during tournaments. He is a great player though so kudo's to EG.


They want to fly Puma and have him win tournaments since no one else besides Idra is capable of doing that.

Idra is capable of winning LAN tournaments? Source please.


How many MLG's has there been? Wait, did he win one of those....last year maybe?

Against foreigners, maybe?
Then suddenly koreans, IdrA not winning. A coincidence?

Not a good move by PuMa practice partner wise.
ragealot
Profile Joined July 2011
432 Posts
July 21 2011 09:02 GMT
#1974
Can someone provide me EG's statement on this? Or hasn't there been one? If not I am going to wait until I hear both side of the story before judging.
EaryKing
Profile Joined July 2011
Bulgaria158 Posts
July 21 2011 09:02 GMT
#1975
TSL is screwed ((
"You shouldn't trust your feeling sometimes. Remember Emperor had a feeling that Luke Skywalker would turn to the darkside.
Disposition1989
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
Canada270 Posts
July 21 2011 09:02 GMT
#1976
HES A WITCH! BURRRNN HIM!!! jokes.
interesting though. im most familiar with how hockey works when it comes to professional teams and stuff and this would be a case of tampering if hes under contract still. (fined by the league, obviously dont get the player, lose draft picks) but, likely sc2 contracts work a little different than hockey does, assuming any of this is even true. one step closer to being seen in the same light as hockey!! one can dream right
let us all read a song of ice and fire and give it a couple hours before we call for their heads
Tachion
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Canada8573 Posts
July 21 2011 09:03 GMT
#1977
On July 21 2011 17:59 Namu wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 21 2011 17:59 Tachion wrote:
On July 21 2011 17:58 Namu wrote:
On July 21 2011 17:57 Tachion wrote:
Players like Sheth and QXC left ROOT for FXO because of money and travel expenses etc which ROOT couldn't provide. FXOBoss sure didn't consult drewbie and catz and ask them for their permission.
Is this a disrespecting Korean ethics thing? Cause stuff like this is very common when players switch teams in the west.


uh no its not, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tampering_(sport)

I'm talking about the starcraft scene ;o


yeah cause the west surely has a good starcraft scene infrastructure that everyone should follow right? more like there's basically no structure because there's no governing body...

And what infrastructure is there in the Korean scene? It's already been stated that their players weren't even under contract. Their scene right now is basically throw a bunch of guys in a house together for practice and that's that.
i was driving down the road this november eve and spotted a hitchhiker walking down the street. i pulled over and saw that it was only a tree. i uprooted it and put it in my trunk. do trees like marshmallow peeps? cause that's all i have and will have.
Slakter
Profile Joined January 2010
Sweden1947 Posts
July 21 2011 09:03 GMT
#1978
Stuff like this actually makes me miss Kespa.

Now that is something I didnt think I would say for a while.
Protoss, can't live with em', can't kill em'.
xza
Profile Joined November 2010
Singapore1600 Posts
July 21 2011 09:03 GMT
#1979
Puma leaves tsl for EG: "dun worry its bizness guyz'

MKP leaves prime for mouz: "OMG NO FAIR!"

but i doubt mkp will leave prime
"What a terrible final. This is why BO3s are horrible. Seriously MKP vs Moon in a final and having it BO3 is like having Mila Kunis naked in your bed and all she'll give you is a HJ with her PJs on. Pffffffffffffffftt." -greatZERG
SafeAsCheese
Profile Joined June 2011
United States4924 Posts
July 21 2011 09:03 GMT
#1980
On July 21 2011 18:01 Mootland wrote:
Show nested quote +
On July 21 2011 15:51 SiCkO_ wrote:
The biggest issue was that EG started talking up another player while he was participating for another team away from most of his teammates and coaches. And while Puma was certainly able to say no, I imagine that EG would not even bring it up if they weren't 100% sure that they could make an offer that was better than anything TSL could have offered (Korean SC2 teams are not as well off because all the big bucks go to the Brood War players who are already well known and in the spotlight a lot more).

What would you think if your girlfriend went to another state/city/country to go to a conference with people who knew she was going out with you, and yet some rich guy there stole her anyway. It's not the fact that they got Puma as much as it was basically EG flipping the bird to the entire team and to a lesser extent, all of korea, by saying "hey, so most of our players aren't as good are yours, whatever, we can just buy your players up even though you have them contracted because we have tons more money than you".

TSL's staff and coaches spent time, energy and capital to make sure their players could succeed and do well. Their result? A player poached before he can even pay off, by a time that failed to even get a SINGLE PLAYER into the top 16 of the competition he was competing in.

The reaction? I wouldn't be surprised to see teams keep their players (at least their top ones) in korea (with the exception of FXO) to simply safeguard their talent pools. EG in my opinion, has not only cemented the old Brood War concept that Koreans are simply the best, but they have also set back many of the ties that had been building as a result of cooperation between various organizations (TL-oGs, FXO/fOu, Dreamhack, GSL/MLG). This is bigger than one player, it is the precedent that Foreign teams can poach their top talent.

I wish PuMa the best of luck, but EG's move is in my opinion, inconsiderate, exploitative, and a damaging blow to Korean/Foreign relations in SC2. Poor Show


Quoted for truth, people are not looking far enough here, this will be a thorn in the side of korean and foreign sc2 communities and could cause Korea to "close" its borders and then we would have BW all over again because as it stands, Koreans atm are just that much better than foreigners (aside from a VERY selected few foreigners).



Sorry, even the korean players would see that as incredibly dumb.

If Korean teams are afraid of losing players, maybe they should pay more?

If they cannot afford to play more, maybe they don't deserve the players?
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