EPT
It's also the reason I love the marine so much, it has unlimited potential and theoretically with enough micro it can be effective versus colossi ^^
The Rhino in the Room - Page 50
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Andre
Slovenia3515 Posts
It's also the reason I love the marine so much, it has unlimited potential and theoretically with enough micro it can be effective versus colossi ^^ | ||
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pyrodias
United States27 Posts
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jackdaniels
29 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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suejak
Japan545 Posts
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jackdaniels
29 Posts
On February 22 2012 03:41 suejak wrote: We can...? Yeah. After 1.3 years of being out, we can safely say its not the competition. | ||
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Acer1791
Germany182 Posts
believe me, when some players get much better then the others, they will have to train even harder and micro more. btw: 2 expansions will come out too  | ||
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Durp
Canada3117 Posts
On February 22 2012 03:43 jackdaniels wrote: Yeah. After 1.3 years of being out, we can safely say its not the competition. This is an exceptionally ignorant statement. Brood War has been out for a decade, and yet the greatest player it has ever seen has only been playing three years professionally. We haven't seen the level to which "the competition" can get to. The predecessor of this post argued that we have not yet seen the best players the game would have to offer, and as such could not make a fair assessment of the level of competition. None of those points have changed. If anything, there's no way we can safely say it's not the competition. edit; we can say SC2 is less mechanically demanding than Brood War (which is a point rarely if not never contested), but that does not remotely prove that the quality of competition leads to varying tournament results. | ||
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-Kaiser-
Canada932 Posts
On February 22 2012 03:43 jackdaniels wrote: Yeah. After 1.3 years of being out, we can safely say its not the competition. Yeah, after 1.3 years of being out Brood War was pretty competitive too. Nobody in the world is even close to having their game be as flawlessly refined as Brood War is. How about we wait until Code S players stop making blatant errors on a game-by-game basis before we start talking about how non-competitive SC2 is. MVP has a 74.42% win rate. That's more dominant on the scene than Flash is, win wise. What the fuck else do you want? There are some players who are clearly better than others in a game where everybody started relatively fresh. How can people say that the game has too low a ceiling when nobody is even close, and the players who are closest have nearly a 3/4 winrate? | ||
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jackdaniels
29 Posts
On February 22 2012 03:49 Durp wrote: This is an exceptionally ignorant statement. Brood War has been out for a decade, and yet the greatest player it has ever seen has only been playing three years professionally. We haven't seen the level to which "the competition" can get to. The predecessor of this post argued that we had not seen the best players the game would have to offer, and as such could not make a fair assessment of the level of competition. None of those points have changed. If anything, there's no way we can safely say it's not the competition. You don't understand. Brood War didn't have the internet, as we do, back then. In order for strategies to get to the masses, months would pass. In order for metagame shifts to occur it would take years and in any case even Brood War competition really took off in 2004 and was at its highest until 2007. Since then its sort of been fizzling out. Now we can found out strategies in days and metagame shifts happen every 3 months. So to say that Brood War needed 10 years is false and you are not putting things into perspective! | ||
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BlackGosu
Canada1046 Posts
On February 22 2012 03:51 -Kaiser- wrote: Yeah, after 1.3 years of being out Brood War was pretty competitive too. Nobody in the world is even close to having their game be as flawlessly refined as Brood War is. How about we wait until Code S players stop making blatant errors on a game-by-game basis before we start talking about how non-competitive SC2 is. MVP has a 74.42% win rate. That's more dominant on the scene than Flash is, win wise. What the fuck else do you want? There are some players who are clearly better than others in a game where everybody started relatively fresh. How can people say that the game has too low a ceiling when nobody is even close, and the players who are closest have nearly a 3/4 winrate? mvp more dominant than flash? gtfo | ||
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Josh_rakoons
United Kingdom1158 Posts
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ZackAttack
United States884 Posts
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TORTOISE
United States515 Posts
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ceaRshaf
Romania4926 Posts
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Durp
Canada3117 Posts
On February 22 2012 03:53 jackdaniels wrote: You don't understand. Brood War didn't have the internet, as we do, back then. In order for strategies to get to the masses, months would pass. In order for metagame shifts to occur it would take years and in any case even Brood War competition really took off in 2004 and was at its highest until 2007. Since then its sort of been fizzling out. Now we can found out strategies in days and metagame shifts happen every 3 months. So to say that Brood War needed 10 years is false and you are not putting things into perspective! It wasn't really until BoxeR hit the scene that the terran dropship saw constant play, and other players realized its potential. Who's to say that won't happen with any units currently in SC2 (Raven, anyone?) You're considering metagame shifts of a less than two year old game meaningful? There are still balance changes occurring (which cause forced metagame shifts to adjust for new balance) as well as an influx of tons of new talent. The game is new, and the pro-scene is constantly changing. You're attempting here to compare a game and competitive scene with a decade of gameplay and polishing to one that's been out for just under a year and a half. This is a fool's errand to begin with. You're saying the game was at its peak in 2007, which is before Flash began his dominance of the scene. That in itself is contradictory, as it wasn't until 2007 that it was being played at its highest level. Perhaps it is time for a step back to look at your own perspective. Food for thought: We're comparing StarCraft 1's EXPANSION to a pre-expansion StarCraft 2, which has not had the benefit of added/removed units and gameplay aspects. Does nobody else see the problem there? | ||
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ceaRshaf
Romania4926 Posts
On February 22 2012 04:08 Durp wrote: It wasn't really until BoxeR hit the scene that the terran dropship saw constant play, and other players realized its potential. Who's to say that won't happen with any units currently in SC2 (Raven, anyone?) You're considering metagame shifts of a less than two year old game meaningful? There are still balance changes occurring (which cause forced metagame shifts to adjust for new balance) as well as an influx of tons of new talent. You're attempting here to compare a game with a decade of gameplay and polishing to one that's been out for just under a year and a half. This is a fool's errand to begin with. You're saying the game was at its peak in 2007, which is before Flash began his dominance of the scene. That in itself is contradictory. Food for thought: We're comparing StarCraft 1's EXPANSION to an unchanged StarCraft 2. Does nobody else see the problem there? No, because you don't have to reinvent the wheel with any new car design. | ||
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GARO
United States2255 Posts
On February 22 2012 03:51 -Kaiser- wrote: MVP has a 74.42% win rate. That's more dominant on the scene than Flash is, win wise. What the fuck else do you want? There are some players who are clearly better than others in a game where everybody started relatively fresh. How can people say that the game has too low a ceiling when nobody is even close, and the players who are closest have nearly a 3/4 winrate? LOL, are you intentionally quoting MVP's international win rate and comparing it to Flash because you know that 67.03% would make you look stupid for making the comparison in the first place? | ||
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mdb
Bulgaria4059 Posts
On February 22 2012 03:58 Josh_rakoons wrote: Arguing that BW has better gameplay is meaningless, BW has been out 10 years + and therefore EVERYONE has a ton of practice at it, therefore almost everyone is incredibly good, thus creating extremely good gameplay, the same will happen with sc2. I dont that it matters so much for how long the game has been out, but how many games have been played. I`m sure that for the time SC2 has been released there are more games played at the highest level of competition than BW for 10 years. | ||
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Herculix
United States946 Posts
On February 22 2012 03:53 jackdaniels wrote: You don't understand. Brood War didn't have the internet, as we do, back then. In order for strategies to get to the masses, months would pass. In order for metagame shifts to occur it would take years and in any case even Brood War competition really took off in 2004 and was at its highest until 2007. Since then its sort of been fizzling out. Now we can found out strategies in days and metagame shifts happen every 3 months. So to say that Brood War needed 10 years is false and you are not putting things into perspective! knowing strategies is not what makes it hard. what makes it hard is making harddecisions, executing strategies with good micro, and being able to read your opponent while lacking information. these are skills that will never hit a skill ceiling. i assume that your stance is that we have already figured out the game because we have internet. i would like you to defend that stance. i doubt you could fully explain the entire depth of even 1 match up. when i watch players play this game, half of the pros make a lot of errors. it's not nearly like watching brood war. it's one thing to admit, yea, starcraft 2 inherently is less demanding. even then, though, if it's less demanding then why is everyone still so unrefined? why do people make such dumb decisions so often still? it's because they aren't nearly the player they could be. it doesn't matter if the internet speeds up our knowledge. we will know where the final destination is faster than in BW, but it doesn't actually give people experience at a faster rate. the need to play for years and be taught by people who have played for years is why it will end up taking almost as long as brood war anyway to find someone as good as flash. you can't read flash's experience on the internet and suddenly understand how to play like flash even if you meticulously analyzed every single detail of every single game. | ||
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KimJongChill
United States6429 Posts
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