On June 24 2011 19:58 redloser wrote: "TSL needs to reform. Trickster and FD disagreed with the direction we are heading, so they chose to leave the team. We wish good luck for them in their tournaments. TSL would be paying more efforts." or sth like that.
Crude translation:
I think TSL is the time for a change. Kim Won a team-based player in the desired direction and seogisu to break the heart was different. Gimwongi seogisu players in domestic and foreign competition is expected in the propaganda. TSL is also going to be a team effort is more.
The message is understandable though.
Quite sad... would be interesting if they join a team like FXO or something, though.
On June 24 2011 20:01 GurZtly wrote: When I saw them play i thought every time they do not take it seriously. I think they would be pretty bad for FXO or any other team...
Well, not take it serious is a bit far-fetched, but they definetly play a bit worse than they used to. :/
Sigh, Trickster and FD Y U NO STAY IN TEAMS? So they leave oGs because they want to play more casually and now they leave the team they were founders of because they want to play in more tournaments :| TSL's future doesn't look the brightest although they still have some strong players.
Amazing that they want to compete outside of Korea from what I understand, but I'm sad for TSL. It's a smart move by the two guys though, they know how SC2 is changing.
2 of TSL's greater players, combined with Rain, leaving the team? I smell something more going on in the background here =/
Best of luck to both FD and Trickster. They are both great players, but haven't gone well lately. Perhaps there is something in TSL which can be attributed to this?
"TSL needs to reform. Trickster and FD disagreed with the direction we are heading, so they chose to leave the team. We wish good luck for them in their tournaments. TSL would be paying more efforts." or sth like that.
"TSL needs to reform. Trickster and FD disagreed with the direction we are heading, so they chose to leave the team. We wish good luck for them in their tournaments. TSL would be paying more efforts." or sth like that.
I really hope to see them soon in overseas tournys! Excited to see which team these players will end up on. On a side note, it is a shame that Coach Lee's efforts at creating a team are not going as well. His former top 2 players were not placing highly in GSL or playing particularly well in GSTL. Rain has left TSL in hopes of joining a foreigner team, and now FD and Trickster/Tester have left after Coach Lee got them salaries in SC2. Hopefully aLive and Killer can keep TSL competitive because they have lost some seriously talented players over the past few months ( Im not even a fan of Rain and he is best remembered for cheesing Nestea but he is a finalist in GSL and does have a fair bit of talent.)
I remember them saying they wanted to play more for fun, so maybe tsl going in a more structured strict training style they don't want to be part of. who knows though, both code S still I believe so would be a good pick up.
ok maybe i was a bit harsh, but it seems their coach is not pleased with their work ethic. its such a shame to constantly watch someone as talented as fruitdealer underacheiving all the time
hmmm wonder what tl will do to modify fantasy if any. With fruitdealer at 4 and trickster at 6 pretty much everyone can trade for them on anti if they want.
I wonder if has to do with other TSL members wanting to compete in the NASL. The only two prominent TSL members not competing for spots in the 2nd season is FD and Trickster.
I guess it's like the same in BW proleague... if you sucked, you can go play in the dream league / minor league. Andddd you eventually get degraded into a practice partner with no regular salary. I suppose TSL's FD / Tester might have been offered a choice: Show us tournament results with your current practice regime, or practice more. Or you can quit now while you can before your contract runs out next month.
Something along those lines... I mean honestly TSL_alive is the ace now. FD and tester have disappeared into obscurity (Code S though ??? They are pretty durable I gotta admit). But they haven't maintained their stardom or provided new momentum whereas TSL_alive + new DRG-type players will provide future progress. Meh I really like Tester though just because he took a game off FlaSH back in the day
Looks like I made a good decision putting FD on my anti team. He honestly hasn't impressed me whatsoever on ANY high level since his GSL open season 1 win.
On June 24 2011 20:04 bittman wrote: 2 of TSL's greater players, combined with Rain, leaving the team? I smell something more going on in the background here =/
Best of luck to both FD and Trickster. They are both great players, but haven't gone well lately. Perhaps there is something in TSL which can be attributed to this?
idk about Trickster, but FD had said he loves a more casual environment for gaming, not like the ones from BW days (practicing for 10 hrs per a day and competing for the lineup)... so mayb that's why he's leaving TSL.
On June 24 2011 20:21 Zlasher wrote: Looks like I made a good decision putting FD on my anti team. He honestly hasn't impressed me whatsoever on ANY high level since his GSL open season 1 win.
He's the most consistent GSL champion at the moment though.
On June 24 2011 20:21 Zlasher wrote: Looks like I made a good decision putting FD on my anti team. He honestly hasn't impressed me whatsoever on ANY high level since his GSL open season 1 win.
He's the most consistent GSL champion at the moment though.
On June 24 2011 20:21 Zlasher wrote: Looks like I made a good decision putting FD on my anti team. He honestly hasn't impressed me whatsoever on ANY high level since his GSL open season 1 win.
He's the most consistent GSL champion at the moment though.
Uh, what?
He's the only GSL champion to get to RO16 Code S every single time? Every other champ has dropped to the Up/Down and MVP even dropped to Code A?
On June 24 2011 20:21 Zlasher wrote: Looks like I made a good decision putting FD on my anti team. He honestly hasn't impressed me whatsoever on ANY high level since his GSL open season 1 win.
He's the most consistent GSL champion at the moment though.
I was never really a fan of TSL, just Fruitdealer even though this is a bad thing as long as he joins a new team and continues to play it shouldn't be that critical to TSL.
I thought TSL was one of the few Korean teams that gave their players salaries? Or maybe just one of the first, I remember there was a lot of talk about it. Either way, I'd be surprised if they could find a better deal elsewhere....
On June 24 2011 20:21 Zlasher wrote: Looks like I made a good decision putting FD on my anti team. He honestly hasn't impressed me whatsoever on ANY high level since his GSL open season 1 win.
He's the most consistent GSL champion at the moment though.
guy with 1k posts says this? @@ have you been following GSL my friend - FD and tester are both hanging about in Code S amazingly, but they are not consistent.
On June 24 2011 20:21 Zlasher wrote: Looks like I made a good decision putting FD on my anti team. He honestly hasn't impressed me whatsoever on ANY high level since his GSL open season 1 win.
He's the most consistent GSL champion at the moment though.
Uh, what?
He's the only GSL champion to get to RO16 Code S every single time? Every other champ has dropped to the Up/Down and MVP even dropped to Code A?
You have a weird definition of consistency. No one in their right mind thinks FD is consistent.
On June 24 2011 20:21 Zlasher wrote: Looks like I made a good decision putting FD on my anti team. He honestly hasn't impressed me whatsoever on ANY high level since his GSL open season 1 win.
He's the most consistent GSL champion at the moment though.
Uh, what?
He's the only GSL champion to get to RO16 Code S every single time? Every other champ has dropped to the Up/Down and MVP even dropped to Code A?
On June 24 2011 20:21 Zlasher wrote: Looks like I made a good decision putting FD on my anti team. He honestly hasn't impressed me whatsoever on ANY high level since his GSL open season 1 win.
He's the most consistent GSL champion at the moment though.
On June 24 2011 20:21 Zlasher wrote: Looks like I made a good decision putting FD on my anti team. He honestly hasn't impressed me whatsoever on ANY high level since his GSL open season 1 win.
He's the most consistent GSL champion at the moment though.
Uh, what?
He's the only GSL champion to get to RO16 Code S every single time? Every other champ has dropped to the Up/Down and MVP even dropped to Code A?
FD dropped to the Up/Down match few times too.
To be exact, he dropped to the Up/Down matches two times in a row, advanced to Ro 16 the next GSL, and knocked out of the tournament at Ro 64 @ GSL ST.
On June 24 2011 20:21 Zlasher wrote: Looks like I made a good decision putting FD on my anti team. He honestly hasn't impressed me whatsoever on ANY high level since his GSL open season 1 win.
He's the most consistent GSL champion at the moment though.
Sorry no hes not, hes a great player all love him as the one who won when the odd's were against him but realistically speaking hes been absolutly slumping to such a high level .. What did i base this on? The fact that in beta and even in early starcraft2 he was pretty untouchable... but since that gsl win hes never been the same i think.
On June 24 2011 20:21 Zlasher wrote: Looks like I made a good decision putting FD on my anti team. He honestly hasn't impressed me whatsoever on ANY high level since his GSL open season 1 win.
He's the most consistent GSL champion at the moment though.
Uh, what?
He's the only GSL champion to get to RO16 Code S every single time? Every other champ has dropped to the Up/Down and MVP even dropped to Code A?
FD dropped to the Up/Down match few times too.
To be exact, he dropped to the Up/Down matches two times in a row, advanced to Ro 16 the next GSL, and knocked out of the tournament at Ro 64 @ GSL ST.
Oh? Ok, then I take my words back. I thought he advanced to the Ro16 every time, nevermind then.
i have been saying to my friends that TSL will disban in 6 months. i guess i was right. with 3 of their best players leaving in such a short time, they will lose sponsors. also, TSL doesnt ever win anything, as sad as that is.
On June 24 2011 20:21 Zlasher wrote: Looks like I made a good decision putting FD on my anti team. He honestly hasn't impressed me whatsoever on ANY high level since his GSL open season 1 win.
He's the most consistent GSL champion at the moment though.
Anyone who has watched Tester and FD player in recent months knows that they haven't been practicing very hard. Sounds like that's why they're getting kicked out.
TSL has been rocky lately. Still strong Code S players but most never see past the RO32 or 16. I wonder what changes the team is making that is causing so many players to jump ship.
Oh well, I can't wait to see where trickster and fruitdealer end up now...
2 lazy players who already left oGs because they didn't want to practice and have been in decline since the beta, not a huge loss. The most important thing in SC2 is a good work ethic and those 2 don't have it.
This is interesting. Remember the news when TSL became the first Korean team with SC2 team salaries. To quote that thread:
The two highest paid players will be Kim Won Ki AKA TSL.FruitDealer and Seo Ki Soo AKA TSL.Trickster, with 35,000,000 KRW (around 31,000 US$) and 30,000,000 KRW (around 27,000 US$) a year respectively.
As you can see Fruitdealer & Trickster had year-long contracts with 27-30K USD/year. The two higest paid players are now gone from TSL.
Wonder if they're gonna go on some weird ass trip over the world trying to cash in on tournaments wanting korean presence. Or maybe its just me that have a hard time seeing any team actually wanting to pick them up given their history of jumping teams?
PS. Now that i think about it its quite clear that the TSL house couldn't accommodate both Fruitdealer AND his hair...
On June 24 2011 20:45 Heathen wrote: If alot of koreans leaving their teams and then joining foreign teams. We might be able to see a foreigner version of GSTL hehe
To be fair, it's only been 3-4 mostly from the same team so something is certainly going on there.
TSL should be okay, but it seems strange that Rain, Tester (Trickster) and FruitDealer are all gone in short order. I wonder what is going on behind the scenes.
oh, wow. let's hope tsl doesn't go down the road praetoriani did, after their star players left the team. "The SCV Life" is too good of a name for the team to go under. :o
Holy shit this sucks. I'm a huge Tester's fan. I fact Tester is the only protoss I have ever cheered for in my life. (( I hope TSL just disbands because except for Clide there is no one left from core players. aLive just joined recently and may as well leave any time he wants.
Here I'm calling it first: Tester will be picked up by Incredible Miracle
On June 24 2011 19:59 FinnGamer wrote: Interesting that more Korean players want to play in freign tournaments
Not really, the average level in EU/NA Tournaments is a joke compared to GSL (Code S, A, B). Korean players going abroad have a much easier time making money than in Korea at the moment.
MLG Columbus : 3 Koreans, they make Top 3.... Dreamhack : 4 Koreans, 3 in the top 4, beaten by a guy who has been training seriously in Korea for several months....
I wouldn't be surprised if TSL is trying to up the ante and Fruitdealer/Tester just don't want to play so much anymore. After all, that's why they left oGs.
Why do I feel like Coach Lee wanted to get a stricter and more structured practice system and FD and Trickster didn't want to do that? :[.. Honestly, Trickster and FD have been riding their hype from the first season of GSL for too long. Although they're great players and I wish them both the best, I think this will be great for the players that remain in TSL for many reasons. It seems like they have a lot more talent and are harder working. It also frees up funds that were previously going to Trickster and FD to go to them.
lol TSL management probably had seen statistics from TL fantasy league. I bet Trickster and FD are "leading" most of the anti-teams... :D What happens with my anti-team now?
Unfortunate, but disagreements do happen... There's probably going to be a lot of speculation where they go, but FruitDealer has said in some previous interviews (Blizzcon 2010) that his military service was coming up... maybe he'll do that and come back later.
Omg, I should have picked those two in my anti-team. And I thought that the others were the idiots, since TSL has so few players and those two are considered aces, they would obviously both be sent in like, 90% of the matches.
Who can TSL field next Thursday against Prime with Rain, FD and Tester gone? They're pretty much left with Alive and PuMa, can't think of anyone else. Hope they have some unknown talent to fall back on.
Whoa....this is sad, werent tsl the first team to get a salary? But I guess there's been some pressure to show results, something which both havent really been doing off late. So maybe coach wants a more brood war style environment...is the coach the assistant coach from the mbc game? (in the series hyung jooon becomes a progamer)?
Never really cared for fruitdealer. It was pretty obvious he was just riding out his fame after his early championship and using it as an excuse to slack off. Can't respect a salary paid pro who doesn't practice much and thus puts up crappy results, talk about unappreciative. If you want to play "casually" then why are you a pro gamer accepting a top salary when theres so many players putting in 10x more effort than him and not getting paid jack. Hes the Shawn Kemp of sc2. Slackers get fired in all professions, I hope his coach told him to go f~~~ off.
Noooooo FruitDealer whyyy You are the reason I chose zerg, I even have your teamliquid season 1 hype video on my phone just so I can watch it every day! Even with poor results you are still my number 1 I hope you can go to a good team and find your magic touch again.
P.S. Screw the haters I know you cheered for him in season 1
On June 24 2011 19:58 Shalaiyn wrote: It is... hopefully they go to somewhere they could go to foreigner events. Maybe Artosis picks up Trickster for Sixjax?
Hopefully he fades into dissapointing obscurity where he belongs.
This sucks. I don't really follow SC2 that much, but do kind of follow TSL because of the old estro connection with Tester and Sangho(Artosis influence).
Well this is not the first time that happens, tester and cool < aka trickster and fruitdealer already left oGs before and found TSL, so something is going on with them.
On June 24 2011 20:04 bittman wrote: 2 of TSL's greater players, combined with Rain, leaving the team? I smell something more going on in the background here =/
Best of luck to both FD and Trickster. They are both great players, but haven't gone well lately. Perhaps there is something in TSL which can be attributed to this?
I think this is more to do with the coach wanting the players to put in more practice time and focusing on the GSL.
FD and trickster on the other hand have never been ones to practice a lot. They also probably want to go to the "easier" foreign tournaments for more money.
On June 24 2011 19:59 lowkontrast wrote: From the translator I understand that TSL wants to be more team-based, so they are getting rid of their team? I'm not sure I understand.
tester/cool were known for their lack of effort in regards for practice. Was their main reason for parting with ogs iirc.
Who ever is heading the team probably wants some form of structure so they can hope to produce results.
The issue I have with this is that TSL was the first pro SC2 team to find sponsors from my understanding, and do they have a lot! I mean Coke n such. Big names, and they are lucky that they are the first to have regular big salaries (30-40k approx for FD and Tester) i mean thats a lot of money in the sc2 scene in terms of salary. To leave that, what are the chances of them making that much money in the future? Its really odd.
I very much doubt they left of their own accord, considering the salary they had at TSL. The announcement has a rather diplomatic wording anyway.
Every rumour we've heard so far had it that they just weren't too committed to training and improving their game. My take on it is that TSL tried to fix that by giving them the highest regular salary, but it obviously didn't work out at all.
It's a shame though, both are (were?) really talented, and I very much doubt they'll get better terms and treatment than they had in TSL anywhere else right now. As for foreigner teams, I just don't see either of them really fitting in and contributing much to the team - and they'll probably be even less motivated to practice themselves.
best of luck to fd + tester. hope fd finds himself and tester lives up to his beta hype!
edit: such a shame really, these guys were such beasts in the first season or 2 of the gsl. TSL was the scariest team by a long shot. Now they are nowhere near the top
On June 24 2011 19:59 lowkontrast wrote: From the translator I understand that TSL wants to be more team-based, so they are getting rid of their team? I'm not sure I understand.
tester/cool were known for their lack of effort in regards for practice. Was their main reason for parting with ogs iirc.
Who ever is heading the team probably wants some form of structure so they can hope to produce results.
That's just my take.
I think they're 2 separate statements. Like, Tester/Fruitdealer are leaving, but they'll continue to work hard.
On June 24 2011 20:05 Koshi wrote: Koreans want to play outside Korea more and more it seems. Only IM is not interested in such thing.
IM coach said in Artosis's interview that they want to send players oversea and even include some foreigners in their. Strangely no one invites IM players, maybe they are scared?
On June 24 2011 20:05 Koshi wrote: Koreans want to play outside Korea more and more it seems. Only IM is not interested in such thing.
IM coach said in Artosis's interview that they want to send players oversea and even include some foreigners in their. Strangely no one invites IM players, maybe they are scared?
This is super unfortunate, SKS was a pretty big part of TSL's deep lineup, and to a lesser extent Fruitdealer was also D:. I hope they find a good team/ good teams in the future to join, it's gonna be sad to see TSL play now with a reduced lineup. gl to both of them!
Fruit and Tester were some of the only korean players getting salaried. Even if It wasn't that high it doesn't make sense to leave their job over practice conditions. Especially considering their recent results.
TSL is definitely falling apart, although FruitDealer and Tester have been achieving less and less in SC2. (That's not to say that having them leave the team is necessarily a *good* thing, but we'll see.)
Easy money bro. Chances of you winning mlg, nasl, dreamhack, or some other foreign tourny is far far higher than winning code s. The skill pool is much lower outside korea.
This is actually good news. The one thing the entire team of TSL is completely shit at is decision making. Most of them show so much promise, but always lose to inferior players. Hopefully a different team can make them good again.
I am going to celebrate because both Trickster and FruitDealer are on my anti-team for Fantasy GSTL! Wonder if TSL is having money problems and cannot afford the salaries for these 2 as they likely have the highest salaries in the house.
It's a smart move by FD. He seems to have fallen from grace in the Korean scene, not being able to keep up with the new generation of SC2'ers. He has a better chance competing in foreign tournaments, but we'll see how he does.
Good on TSL. Trickster and FD are probably the most inconsistent players right now, and it shows with their mechanics, they probably only practice when they feel like it.
I support Cool and Tester in whatever venture they decide to go into. My guess is they couldn't find their right place within TSL, to the point when it seemed more beneficial for them to go play as free agents for a while. Maybe some teams will use them as mercs.
On June 24 2011 21:31 frucisky wrote: Who can TSL field next Thursday against Prime with Rain, FD and Tester gone? They're pretty much left with Alive and PuMa, can't think of anyone else. Hope they have some unknown talent to fall back on.
However, I hope Prime does well this GSTL
Sangho (code S), Clide (Code S), Revival (Code A), and JYP/Smart (been doing decent lately - beat leenock in LG special)
this definitely hurts their depth but they are still a pretty competitive team. really interested to see what happens to ssks/FD.. I know in an interview around season one they both said they still had to do their millitary service and they are fairly old
even though their results have been disappointing relative to the expectations both have actually been pretty consistent. both have been in code S every season which is hard to do
i always wondered why KR players don't seek out foreign teams and compete outside Korea. Obviously people capable of winning the GSL will still stay in Korea but for people who can barely scrape code A could compete in online cups and go to LANs in Europe.
I remember in wc3 top Chinese and Korean players like Lyn, Moon, TH000 etc would play in international teams and compete internationally. Obviously it's kind of different in SC2 with the GSL being the tournament everyone wants to win and compete in but if you aren't likely to get deep into code S then it would be better to compete all over the world (and probably more fun too, job satisfaction is important).
The question has been asked.. But still unanswered..? I have Fruitdealer in my team.. What will happen to him now? Will I get to pick a free replacement?
On June 24 2011 19:58 Shalaiyn wrote: It is... hopefully they go to somewhere they could go to foreigner events. Maybe Artosis picks up Trickster for Sixjax?
They are supposedly pretty good buddies - I could see that happening.
I love this little drama going now in the Sc2 scene. it would be a smart move from teams like FXO or Liquid that are already "international" to pick up such quality Korean players.
1) considering it is a GSL spotlight off the bat, thus giving the team more points for GSTL (afaik 1 Code A player is worth so many points, and 1 Code S player is worth even more.) With Rain, Trickster and Fruitdealer, thats 2 Code S and 1 Code A (correct me if Im wrong) which is a potential boost for a GSTL ranking.
2) Starcraft 2 is dominating e-Sports right now, while SC:BW is still a hype in Korea, where MSL OSL and SPL are more popular than GSL, prizepools OUTSIDE korea for Sc2 are pretty interesting, i can easily understand a player to be interested by such.
3) The way korean tournaments are going; GSL: 5 weeks based tournament, if you are NOT already code A or code S, you need to go thru painful qualifiers, if you fail, fly back to America. In a case where you would qualify, you have to find shelter for 5 weeks, feed yourself etc. those are big expenses. For the koreans tho, they fly to America for 4 days (MLG) participate in open brackets, make your way thru, win and leave..
we're comparing a 5 weeks stay in Korea where you pretty much need an appartment with decent pratice facilities VS a 3 days tournament thats gonna cost you maybe 600$ of hotel room charge + plane... whats more advantageous ? Just consider that if oGsMC would have won BOTH Dreamhacks and MLG Columbus the total money prize would exceed a GSL 1st place (5 weeks) and all that earned in 9 days...
Thing is with TSL they were getting salaries and their housing/food paid for... and income tax in Korea is nothing. On top of that, they got income from each GSL by staying in Code S. There isn't nearly enough money outside Korea (that they can actually win) to make up to difference, unless a foreign team wants to pay a huge salary.
They are no longer top players... Tester made his name in the beta and has done nothing and FruitDealer has done nothing since the first GSL. Younger teams could use them as coaches but other than that their places in SC2 seem rather vague at the moment.
It is somewhat interesting that Fruitdealer left oGs around the time when the oGs Teamliquid partnership came to be, raising rumors that they did not agree with the partnership.
After MLG after they see MC and other Koreans winning a handsome amount of prize money, he too wants a share of it.
I question whether a foreigner team have the necessary connections to pick him up (financially too). Fox United lacks players at the moment and given their alliance with the MLG players - may be interested. Ofc, FD can muster the courage to return to oGs and booster their Z lineup (thought FD is not really performing well...)
On June 25 2011 01:23 Soto wrote: I love this little drama going now in the Sc2 scene. it would be a smart move from teams like FXO or Liquid that are already "international" to pick up such quality Korean players.
1) considering it is a GSL spotlight off the bat, thus giving the team more points for GSTL (afaik 1 Code A player is worth so many points, and 1 Code S player is worth even more.) With Rain, Trickster and Fruitdealer, thats 2 Code S and 1 Code A (correct me if Im wrong) which is a potential boost for a GSTL ranking.
2) Starcraft 2 is dominating e-Sports right now, while SC:BW is still a hype in Korea, where MSL OSL and SPL are more popular than GSL, prizepools OUTSIDE korea for Sc2 are pretty interesting, i can easily understand a player to be interested by such.
3) The way korean tournaments are going; GSL: 5 weeks based tournament, if you are NOT already code A or code S, you need to go thru painful qualifiers, if you fail, fly back to America. In a case where you would qualify, you have to find shelter for 5 weeks, feed yourself etc. those are big expenses. For the koreans tho, they fly to America for 4 days (MLG) participate in open brackets, make your way thru, win and leave..
we're comparing a 5 weeks stay in Korea where you pretty much need an appartment with decent pratice facilities VS a 3 days tournament thats gonna cost you maybe 600$ of hotel room charge + plane... whats more advantageous ? Just consider that if oGsMC would have won BOTH Dreamhacks and MLG Columbus the total money prize would exceed a GSL 1st place (5 weeks) and all that earned in 9 days...
you've got the idea but you're looking at 2-3k for that weekend, sure hotel and food 300 even less depending if you're sharing rooms amoungs teammates but a flight from korea to ... well anywhere western is $1,500 depending on time of year.
I don't know if Fruitdealer should really try to continue his career. He hasn't performed well in so long and I don't know if he will be able to turn that around.. I really hope the best for the both of them. I always loved watching him play. Seeing players like Fruitdealer, Haypro, and Dimaga in a slump break my heart. Best of luck to the both of them.
On June 25 2011 01:44 DeepBlu2 wrote: I don't know if Fruitdealer should really try to continue his career. He hasn't performed well in so long and I don't know if he will be able to turn that around.. I really hope the best for the both of them. I always loved watching him play. Seeing players like Fruitdealer, Haypro, and Dimaga in a slump break my heart. Best of luck to the both of them.
Haypro is in a slump? FD kinda is but at least he is still code S, barely but he is still ok. Just not great. Dimaga isn't doing that bad. He isn't winning but it's not like he can't win even to save his life. But I agree that best of luck to them. I seriously hope FD isn't quitting because he is by far my favorite korean player!
I can't tell if that is saying FruitDealer and Tester want to play foreign events or that they do not want too? It wouldn't make much sense if they were for foreign tournaments considering nearly the entire TSL team except these two are taking part in NASL.
I love these two players, and this might actually be a good thing. A change of scenery for these too might be nice, they are still extremely talented, a change of scenery might help their motivation / misc
Hope a team picks both of these dudes up and motivates them to shine again. They clearly both have the raw talent to do well, just not the fire. Sad day.
God, I hope FD gets his shit together for next week when he's going to play. Hopefully this won't spiral into a retirement for him, though I know he's said before that he's not much of a progamer and would like to coach. ;__;
On June 25 2011 01:28 ALang wrote: Thing is with TSL they were getting salaries and their housing/food paid for... and income tax in Korea is nothing. On top of that, they got income from each GSL by staying in Code S. There isn't nearly enough money outside Korea (that they can actually win) to make up to difference, unless a foreign team wants to pay a huge salary.
They are no longer top players... Tester made his name in the beta and has done nothing and FruitDealer has done nothing since the first GSL. Younger teams could use them as coaches but other than that their places in SC2 seem rather vague at the moment.
That's what I thought. When it was formed it was lined with sponsors. Did TSL want to stray away from the casual approach FD and Tester wanted? Their attitude comes off as lazy; I like that they want more free time and not be slaves like in BW, but I don't know it just does.
I don't care about Tester anymore and never did for FD. Oh he got a lucky run to the finals and got an opponent he was 90% sure he'd stomp. Undeserved hype.
TSL is a bust anyway. It was thought it'd be a powerhouse team, but they never deliver and somehow still cling onto their spots in the GSL.
I'm now interested in seeing where fruitdealer goes from here... I'm happy in a backhanded sort of way though, because I have fruitdealer on my anti-team for the Fantasy GSTL!
It's pretty simple, TSL has not been doing great lately so they probably wanted the players to practice harder which Trickster and Fruitdealer didn't want to do so they left, like what happened with OGS.
I really am curious what is going on in their team house or whatever. I mean first Rain goes, then shortly after comes Trickster and Fruitdealer? This is quite strange
I dont get those " I want to play in foreign tourney" bs. Will tourney orga actually invite them over the like of much hotter and skilled players like MC,Bomber,MMA ? Or can they beat those ? Are foreign tournies that attractive ? The most frequent one is MLG and it's 5K for Top1 place, kinda meh while u can get the same by winning 2 games in Code S, plus you are in a nice team with quality practice and high salary. On topic, imo that wont hurt TSL much, SangHo/Clide/Puma/aLive/JYP all look stable and code-S candidate. They just lack a truly strong ace - the reason why TSL did so poorly in teamleague despite looking much better than most team on paper
I don't understand. Tester and FD are the only two TSL players *not* playing the NASL open.
I wonder if coach Lee forbid Rain/Tester/FD from participating in NASL because he wanted them to focus on GSL instead. And also that way they wouldn't team kill in the NASL open.
That might explain why Rain left a little earlier and is participating in NASL, while Tester and FD are not.
Well it's not like they have done anything since September.
Also, @kNightLite, Tester and FD are notoriously lazy and unmotivated. They probably didn't participate in the NASL because they didn't want to.
And anyway, it's not like they were TSL's best players by a long shot anymore. aLive is their only great player, Clide, Killer, and Revival are pretty decent, and Puma is on the rise.
TSL wont really get hurt much by this. Fruitdealer hasn't done anything since GSL1 and Trickster always been overhyped. They are really on the same level with Clide and Killer while alive might be a little better. TSL still a decent team overall but no standout players like sc in fou, DRG in MVP...
On June 24 2011 19:58 Shalaiyn wrote: It is... hopefully they go to somewhere they could go to foreigner events. Maybe Artosis picks up Trickster for Sixjax?
They left oGs because they wanted to play more casually, and it seems TSL's management wants to be more disciplined and structured, which didn't fit very well with FD and Tester's rather low work ethic that they admitted themselves.
So does this count as the retirement thread too? It doesn't seem like they will ever give the effort necessary to produce results again. Trickster never looks particularly convincing and FD well disappeared though he'll always be in our hearts.
On June 25 2011 01:28 ALang wrote: Thing is with TSL they were getting salaries and their housing/food paid for... and income tax in Korea is nothing. On top of that, they got income from each GSL by staying in Code S. There isn't nearly enough money outside Korea (that they can actually win) to make up to difference, unless a foreign team wants to pay a huge salary.
They are no longer top players... Tester made his name in the beta and has done nothing and FruitDealer has done nothing since the first GSL. Younger teams could use them as coaches but other than that their places in SC2 seem rather vague at the moment.
That's what I thought. When it was formed it was lined with sponsors. Did TSL want to stray away from the casual approach FD and Tester wanted? Their attitude comes off as lazy; I like that they want more free time and not be slaves like in BW, but I don't know it just does.
I don't care about Tester anymore and never did for FD. Oh he got a lucky run to the finals and got an opponent he was 90% sure he'd stomp. Undeserved hype.
TSL is a bust anyway. It was thought it'd be a powerhouse team, but they never deliver and somehow still cling onto their spots in the GSL.
well if they're planning on starting a new team, they don't have the impressive tourney results that they had back in gsl 1 which got them their major sponsors, maybe they're looking to join one of the bigger teams for better practice partners?
Lol at all the Fruitdealer hate. He hasn't done anything since the first GSL? I suppose that's correct...But he's been in Code S every single season. How many players can say that?
Whoa, interesting timing by both of them. Perhaps they will be jumping to more international teams to participate in other tournaments. As is everyone else, I am also wondering what will happen with Fantasy GSTL. They are both on my anti-team as well :o
On June 25 2011 03:53 moose162 wrote: Lol at all the Fruitdealer hate. He hasn't done anything since the first GSL? I suppose that's correct...But he's been in Code S every single season. How many players can say that?
like 70% of the current S class?
isnt OGSTheWind still it? if so, he's been there since the beginning, and he's just more or less messing around.
Those were the 2 highest payed players on the team. Do you think the team stopped paying its players or something? it sounds like TSL is falling apart. I hope trickster and fruitdealer get on another great korean team ^^
On June 25 2011 01:28 ALang wrote: Thing is with TSL they were getting salaries and their housing/food paid for... and income tax in Korea is nothing. On top of that, they got income from each GSL by staying in Code S. There isn't nearly enough money outside Korea (that they can actually win) to make up to difference, unless a foreign team wants to pay a huge salary.
They are no longer top players... Tester made his name in the beta and has done nothing and FruitDealer has done nothing since the first GSL. Younger teams could use them as coaches but other than that their places in SC2 seem rather vague at the moment.
That's what I thought. When it was formed it was lined with sponsors. Did TSL want to stray away from the casual approach FD and Tester wanted? Their attitude comes off as lazy; I like that they want more free time and not be slaves like in BW, but I don't know it just does.
I don't care about Tester anymore and never did for FD. Oh he got a lucky run to the finals and got an opponent he was 90% sure he'd stomp. Undeserved hype.
TSL is a bust anyway. It was thought it'd be a powerhouse team, but they never deliver and somehow still cling onto their spots in the GSL.
FruitDealer was the best player in the world in GSL Season 1. Even Idra was acknowleging his skill at the time.
On June 25 2011 03:53 moose162 wrote: Lol at all the Fruitdealer hate. He hasn't done anything since the first GSL? I suppose that's correct...But he's been in Code S every single season. How many players can say that?
like 70% of the current S class?
isnt OGSTheWind still it? if so, he's been there since the beginning, and he's just more or less messing around.
Nope. TheWind is in Code A now. Makes me wonder if that 70% number is equally uninformed.
On June 25 2011 01:28 ALang wrote: Thing is with TSL they were getting salaries and their housing/food paid for... and income tax in Korea is nothing. On top of that, they got income from each GSL by staying in Code S. There isn't nearly enough money outside Korea (that they can actually win) to make up to difference, unless a foreign team wants to pay a huge salary.
They are no longer top players... Tester made his name in the beta and has done nothing and FruitDealer has done nothing since the first GSL. Younger teams could use them as coaches but other than that their places in SC2 seem rather vague at the moment.
That's what I thought. When it was formed it was lined with sponsors. Did TSL want to stray away from the casual approach FD and Tester wanted? Their attitude comes off as lazy; I like that they want more free time and not be slaves like in BW, but I don't know it just does.
I don't care about Tester anymore and never did for FD. Oh he got a lucky run to the finals and got an opponent he was 90% sure he'd stomp. Undeserved hype.
TSL is a bust anyway. It was thought it'd be a powerhouse team, but they never deliver and somehow still cling onto their spots in the GSL.
FruitDealer was the best player in the world in GSL Season 1. Even Idra was acknowleging his skill at the time.
and idra is going great right now? look from what Ive heard from Fruitdealer's interview. He said he doesnt practice 10 or w.e hours per day that usual sc2 ppl practice. He said he only put only 3 hours? Seriously though, if u dont have time to play for the sc2. then dont. If you still wanna be top player. put effort and practice like others.
On June 25 2011 03:53 moose162 wrote: Lol at all the Fruitdealer hate. He hasn't done anything since the first GSL? I suppose that's correct...But he's been in Code S every single season. How many players can say that?
like 70% of the current S class?
isnt OGSTheWind still it? if so, he's been there since the beginning, and he's just more or less messing around.
Hmmmmmmm I really wan't to know whats going on behind the scenes. What are the changes that TSL is making and also what are the possible reasons they way to compete in usa tournaments more. Easy money?
On June 25 2011 01:28 ALang wrote: Thing is with TSL they were getting salaries and their housing/food paid for... and income tax in Korea is nothing. On top of that, they got income from each GSL by staying in Code S. There isn't nearly enough money outside Korea (that they can actually win) to make up to difference, unless a foreign team wants to pay a huge salary.
They are no longer top players... Tester made his name in the beta and has done nothing and FruitDealer has done nothing since the first GSL. Younger teams could use them as coaches but other than that their places in SC2 seem rather vague at the moment.
That's what I thought. When it was formed it was lined with sponsors. Did TSL want to stray away from the casual approach FD and Tester wanted? Their attitude comes off as lazy; I like that they want more free time and not be slaves like in BW, but I don't know it just does.
I don't care about Tester anymore and never did for FD. Oh he got a lucky run to the finals and got an opponent he was 90% sure he'd stomp. Undeserved hype.
TSL is a bust anyway. It was thought it'd be a powerhouse team, but they never deliver and somehow still cling onto their spots in the GSL.
FruitDealer was the best player in the world in GSL Season 1. Even Idra was acknowleging his skill at the time.
and idra is going great right now? look from what Ive heard from Fruitdealer's interview. He said he doesnt practice 10 or w.e hours per day that usual sc2 ppl practice. He said he only put only 3 hours? Seriously though, if u dont have time to play for the sc2. then dont. If you still wanna be top player. put effort and practice like others.
Who on earth are you responding to, it's definitely not me. Idra's level of play has nothing to do with anything, he's clearly a knowledgeable guy about the game and he said that Cool was the best player in the world during Season 1, and given the fact FruitDealer won the tournament crushing Terran's everywhere while Terran was considered hugely overpowered by everyone shows that in Season 1 FruitDealer was the best player in the world.
What came after has nothing at all to do with what I was responding to it my quote.
The funny thing is, that FruitDealer might never practice but he's still better than basically every Zerg out there besides a few handful of Koreans.
I think TSL is the time for a change. Kim Won a team-based player in the desired direction and seogisu to break the heart was different. Gimwongi seogisu players in domestic and foreign competition is expected in the propaganda. TSL is also going to be a team effort is more.
Yes, Wonki and Ki Soo you guys have both broken my heart.
"TSL needs to reform. Trickster and FD disagreed with the direction we are heading, so they chose to leave the team. We wish good luck for them in their tournaments. TSL would be paying more efforts." or sth like that.
On June 25 2011 04:11 Maliris wrote: i hope they join an international team, they are pretty popular players
For those speculating about these two wanting to participate in more foreigner tournaments, get this:
The only two Koreans on TSL who DIDN'T sign up for the NASL qualifiers were FD and SSKS.
This situation smells like TSL wanting to improve and buckle down with a tougher practice regimen to get better results, and these two just balked and backed out.
Honestly, if these two have the mindsets that we're all speculating about (that they don't want to practice that much), then I can't see any team that would be interested in picking them up. The heavily sponsored teams that are serious about results and competition will likely see these two as cancers, and I doubt they would join some insignificant team with no sponsors/salary. All the foreign teams are starting to understand how important a "Korean" practice regimen and mindset is with all of the recent Korean domination. EG is setting up a serious team house, FXO was willing to move to Korea, and I'm sure more foreign teams have plans to do similar things. Picking up these two guys would be the absolute worst message a team can send out.
Although, who knows. If Artosis was willing to roll the dice on Princess, anything can happen.
So do we have any update on this, any reason ? If I had to speculate, I'd say that FD and Tester are now burden for the team, they must have high salaries and have no real value anymore, so TSL just kicked them out ?
On June 25 2011 03:42 Drazzyo wrote: it would be cool to see fruitdealer join ogs and see ogs become a powerhouse
Fruit and Tester (+ Rainbow) were part of the original members of oGs before they left to create TSL (and Startale).
I also agree this feels basically like retirement situation or they will play until they are eliminated from Code S. I don't see any other reason to leave the only real salaried team in Korea (where FD was making the most) to join some other team...unless they find some other team that is even more "relaxed".
On June 25 2011 03:53 moose162 wrote: Lol at all the Fruitdealer hate. He hasn't done anything since the first GSL? I suppose that's correct...But he's been in Code S every single season. How many players can say that?
like 70% of the current S class?
isnt OGSTheWind still it? if so, he's been there since the beginning, and he's just more or less messing around.
Just checked the jan code S, 17 of the original have been knocked down to code a, though some of them did return. So the percentage is more like 46% .
On June 25 2011 04:59 MrCon wrote: So do we have any update on this, any reason ? If I had to speculate, I'd say that FD and Tester are now burden for the team, they must have high salaries and have no real value anymore, so TSL just kicked them out ?
As much as it pains me to say this, I think your on the right track... neither of them are challengers for the title... They have way too much talent to be free agents for too long though, they are veterans from BW so I'm sure they will attract interest.
I really don't think FD and Tester will be that highly sought free agents... all they have going for them is hype from beta/season 1 and little else since then. They certainly don't seem very motivated to get better results.
On June 25 2011 05:46 amazingoopah wrote: I really don't think FD and Tester will be that highly sought free agents... all they have going for them is hype from beta/season 1 and little else since then. They certainly don't seem very motivated to get better results.
I think TSL is preventing the team from foreign participation. Startale/Prime/oGs/Slayer are active in both Korean and Foreign scene. Also it came to my mind why FD didn't attend MLG? Team issues might be the cause? The reason Rain left the team is foreign tournament related aswell.
thats terrible, not really sure where i hope they go, dont care as much about fd, he seems to be losing it since season 1, trickster should go to FXO for sure.
They haven't been performing as they are able to and as many people said they seem to be just lazy so there results shouldn't really come as a surprise. Them actually leaving the team because the team wants to them actually TRY just doesn't make sense.
I really wonder who will pick them up, it would be great for FXO to grab them, going to be interesting to see where they go. I guess I now need to change TSL to a different team in my GSTL fantasy league.
sounds like a good move to me, TSL was going no where and you could tell. This is a good chance for FD and Tester to get back to pro level like in beta with a new team and a new perspective on the game. I wish them the best of luck and can't wait to see them in future tourneys.
On June 25 2011 04:11 Maliris wrote: i hope they join an international team, they are pretty popular players
For those speculating about these two wanting to participate in more foreigner tournaments, get this:
The only two Koreans on TSL who DIDN'T sign up for the NASL qualifiers were FD and SSKS.
This situation smells like TSL wanting to improve and buckle down with a tougher practice regimen to get better results, and these two just balked and backed out.
Honestly, if these two have the mindsets that we're all speculating about (that they don't want to practice that much), then I can't see any team that would be interested in picking them up. The heavily sponsored teams that are serious about results and competition will likely see these two as cancers, and I doubt they would join some insignificant team with no sponsors/salary. All the foreign teams are starting to understand how important a "Korean" practice regimen and mindset is with all of the recent Korean domination. EG is setting up a serious team house, FXO was willing to move to Korea, and I'm sure more foreign teams have plans to do similar things. Picking up these two guys would be the absolute worst message a team can send out.
Although, who knows. If Artosis was willing to roll the dice on Princess, anything can happen.
Lol please go and do some research before you spew shit from your keyboard, FD and Trickster both have NASL application videos on youtube. If I can remember correctly FD made it to RO 16 in Code S last season losing to IMNestea, the god of ZvZ that's not a terrible result.
I think its a work ethic thing. They dont appear to want to work that hard and maybe TSL's new direction is to practice more. Ive followed FD quite a bit early on and he just doesnt seem like hes a consistently hard worker. Just speculation dont quote me.
On June 25 2011 04:11 Maliris wrote: i hope they join an international team, they are pretty popular players
For those speculating about these two wanting to participate in more foreigner tournaments, get this:
The only two Koreans on TSL who DIDN'T sign up for the NASL qualifiers were FD and SSKS.
This situation smells like TSL wanting to improve and buckle down with a tougher practice regimen to get better results, and these two just balked and backed out.
Honestly, if these two have the mindsets that we're all speculating about (that they don't want to practice that much), then I can't see any team that would be interested in picking them up. The heavily sponsored teams that are serious about results and competition will likely see these two as cancers, and I doubt they would join some insignificant team with no sponsors/salary. All the foreign teams are starting to understand how important a "Korean" practice regimen and mindset is with all of the recent Korean domination. EG is setting up a serious team house, FXO was willing to move to Korea, and I'm sure more foreign teams have plans to do similar things. Picking up these two guys would be the absolute worst message a team can send out.
Although, who knows. If Artosis was willing to roll the dice on Princess, anything can happen.
Lol please go and do some research before you spew shit from your keyboard, FD and Trickster both have NASL application videos on youtube. If I can remember correctly FD made it to RO 16 in Code S last season losing to IMNestea, the god of ZvZ that's not a terrible result.
I'm talking about the situation right now, bro. That was, what, over 3 months ago? Obviously, their motivations have changed.
On June 25 2011 04:11 Maliris wrote: i hope they join an international team, they are pretty popular players
For those speculating about these two wanting to participate in more foreigner tournaments, get this:
The only two Koreans on TSL who DIDN'T sign up for the NASL qualifiers were FD and SSKS.
This situation smells like TSL wanting to improve and buckle down with a tougher practice regimen to get better results, and these two just balked and backed out.
Honestly, if these two have the mindsets that we're all speculating about (that they don't want to practice that much), then I can't see any team that would be interested in picking them up. The heavily sponsored teams that are serious about results and competition will likely see these two as cancers, and I doubt they would join some insignificant team with no sponsors/salary. All the foreign teams are starting to understand how important a "Korean" practice regimen and mindset is with all of the recent Korean domination. EG is setting up a serious team house, FXO was willing to move to Korea, and I'm sure more foreign teams have plans to do similar things. Picking up these two guys would be the absolute worst message a team can send out.
Although, who knows. If Artosis was willing to roll the dice on Princess, anything can happen.
Lol please go and do some research before you spew shit from your keyboard, FD and Trickster both have NASL application videos on youtube. If I can remember correctly FD made it to RO 16 in Code S last season losing to IMNestea, the god of ZvZ that's not a terrible result.
I'm talking about the situation right now, bro. That was, what, over 3 months ago? Obviously, their motivations have changed.
I was talking about the last Code S season, that was last month.
On June 25 2011 04:11 Maliris wrote: i hope they join an international team, they are pretty popular players
For those speculating about these two wanting to participate in more foreigner tournaments, get this:
The only two Koreans on TSL who DIDN'T sign up for the NASL qualifiers were FD and SSKS.
This situation smells like TSL wanting to improve and buckle down with a tougher practice regimen to get better results, and these two just balked and backed out.
Honestly, if these two have the mindsets that we're all speculating about (that they don't want to practice that much), then I can't see any team that would be interested in picking them up. The heavily sponsored teams that are serious about results and competition will likely see these two as cancers, and I doubt they would join some insignificant team with no sponsors/salary. All the foreign teams are starting to understand how important a "Korean" practice regimen and mindset is with all of the recent Korean domination. EG is setting up a serious team house, FXO was willing to move to Korea, and I'm sure more foreign teams have plans to do similar things. Picking up these two guys would be the absolute worst message a team can send out.
Although, who knows. If Artosis was willing to roll the dice on Princess, anything can happen.
Lol please go and do some research before you spew shit from your keyboard, FD and Trickster both have NASL application videos on youtube. If I can remember correctly FD made it to RO 16 in Code S last season losing to IMNestea, the god of ZvZ that's not a terrible result.
I'm talking about the situation right now, bro. That was, what, over 3 months ago? Obviously, their motivations have changed.
Um lol. But you said this
"The only two Koreans on TSL who DIDN'T sign up for the NASL qualifiers were FD and SSKS."
On June 25 2011 04:11 Maliris wrote: i hope they join an international team, they are pretty popular players
For those speculating about these two wanting to participate in more foreigner tournaments, get this:
The only two Koreans on TSL who DIDN'T sign up for the NASL qualifiers were FD and SSKS.
This situation smells like TSL wanting to improve and buckle down with a tougher practice regimen to get better results, and these two just balked and backed out.
Honestly, if these two have the mindsets that we're all speculating about (that they don't want to practice that much), then I can't see any team that would be interested in picking them up. The heavily sponsored teams that are serious about results and competition will likely see these two as cancers, and I doubt they would join some insignificant team with no sponsors/salary. All the foreign teams are starting to understand how important a "Korean" practice regimen and mindset is with all of the recent Korean domination. EG is setting up a serious team house, FXO was willing to move to Korea, and I'm sure more foreign teams have plans to do similar things. Picking up these two guys would be the absolute worst message a team can send out.
Although, who knows. If Artosis was willing to roll the dice on Princess, anything can happen.
Lol please go and do some research before you spew shit from your keyboard, FD and Trickster both have NASL application videos on youtube. If I can remember correctly FD made it to RO 16 in Code S last season losing to IMNestea, the god of ZvZ that's not a terrible result.
I'm talking about the situation right now, bro. That was, what, over 3 months ago? Obviously, their motivations have changed.
Um lol. But you said this
"The only two Koreans on TSL who DIDN'T sign up for the NASL qualifiers were FD and SSKS."
this is 100% inaccurate. lol
He's obviously talking about the open tournament running right now, in which all of TSL but FD and Tester are participating. It is legal to think before you post.
For the record I cant see any good reason any top foreign team would pick these two up. Couple of has beens that show no signs of getting better as of now. Better invest in talented, up and coming, younger players, then.
On June 25 2011 06:14 emc wrote: sounds like a good move to me, TSL was going no where and you could tell. This is a good chance for FD and Tester to get back to pro level like in beta with a new team and a new perspective on the game. I wish them the best of luck and can't wait to see them in future tourneys.
Players were going no where not the TSL.
Take into the consideration that in GSTL, TSL failed both times MAINLY to ACE's not playing to their expectations. FD, trickster and Killer not doing their job.
So If TSL kicked them out, i would say that it was good move and invest the money to younger players.
On June 25 2011 04:11 Maliris wrote: i hope they join an international team, they are pretty popular players
For those speculating about these two wanting to participate in more foreigner tournaments, get this:
The only two Koreans on TSL who DIDN'T sign up for the NASL qualifiers were FD and SSKS.
This situation smells like TSL wanting to improve and buckle down with a tougher practice regimen to get better results, and these two just balked and backed out.
Honestly, if these two have the mindsets that we're all speculating about (that they don't want to practice that much), then I can't see any team that would be interested in picking them up. The heavily sponsored teams that are serious about results and competition will likely see these two as cancers, and I doubt they would join some insignificant team with no sponsors/salary. All the foreign teams are starting to understand how important a "Korean" practice regimen and mindset is with all of the recent Korean domination. EG is setting up a serious team house, FXO was willing to move to Korea, and I'm sure more foreign teams have plans to do similar things. Picking up these two guys would be the absolute worst message a team can send out.
Although, who knows. If Artosis was willing to roll the dice on Princess, anything can happen.
Lol please go and do some research before you spew shit from your keyboard, FD and Trickster both have NASL application videos on youtube. If I can remember correctly FD made it to RO 16 in Code S last season losing to IMNestea, the god of ZvZ that's not a terrible result.
I'm talking about the situation right now, bro. That was, what, over 3 months ago? Obviously, their motivations have changed.
Um lol. But you said this
"The only two Koreans on TSL who DIDN'T sign up for the NASL qualifiers were FD and SSKS."
this is 100% inaccurate. lol
He's obviously talking about the open tournament running right now, in which all of TSL but FD and Tester are participating. It is legal to think before you post.
For the record I cant see any good reason any top foreign team would pick these two up. Couple of has beens that show no signs of getting better as of now. Better invest in talented, up and coming, younger players, then.
ooooooooooooooooooooooo my b my b. i didnt know NASL OPEN was now ty for info
On June 25 2011 04:11 Maliris wrote: i hope they join an international team, they are pretty popular players
For those speculating about these two wanting to participate in more foreigner tournaments, get this:
The only two Koreans on TSL who DIDN'T sign up for the NASL qualifiers were FD and SSKS.
This situation smells like TSL wanting to improve and buckle down with a tougher practice regimen to get better results, and these two just balked and backed out.
Honestly, if these two have the mindsets that we're all speculating about (that they don't want to practice that much), then I can't see any team that would be interested in picking them up. The heavily sponsored teams that are serious about results and competition will likely see these two as cancers, and I doubt they would join some insignificant team with no sponsors/salary. All the foreign teams are starting to understand how important a "Korean" practice regimen and mindset is with all of the recent Korean domination. EG is setting up a serious team house, FXO was willing to move to Korea, and I'm sure more foreign teams have plans to do similar things. Picking up these two guys would be the absolute worst message a team can send out.
Although, who knows. If Artosis was willing to roll the dice on Princess, anything can happen.
Lol please go and do some research before you spew shit from your keyboard, FD and Trickster both have NASL application videos on youtube. If I can remember correctly FD made it to RO 16 in Code S last season losing to IMNestea, the god of ZvZ that's not a terrible result.
I'm talking about the situation right now, bro. That was, what, over 3 months ago? Obviously, their motivations have changed.
Um lol. But you said this
"The only two Koreans on TSL who DIDN'T sign up for the NASL qualifiers were FD and SSKS."
this is 100% inaccurate. lol
He's obviously talking about the open tournament running right now, in which all of TSL but FD and Tester are participating. It is legal to think before you post.
For the record I cant see any good reason any top foreign team would pick these two up. Couple of has beens that show no signs of getting better as of now. Better invest in talented, up and coming, younger players, then.
ooooooooooooooooooooooo my b my b. i didnt know NASL OPEN was now ty for info
Hah, people on this forum are so nice, you respond to my rather blunt post with "oh, my bad then, thank you for informing me". I will never get used to this. I feel rather bad for being so edgy now. =(
On June 25 2011 04:11 Maliris wrote: i hope they join an international team, they are pretty popular players
For those speculating about these two wanting to participate in more foreigner tournaments, get this:
The only two Koreans on TSL who DIDN'T sign up for the NASL qualifiers were FD and SSKS.
This situation smells like TSL wanting to improve and buckle down with a tougher practice regimen to get better results, and these two just balked and backed out.
Honestly, if these two have the mindsets that we're all speculating about (that they don't want to practice that much), then I can't see any team that would be interested in picking them up. The heavily sponsored teams that are serious about results and competition will likely see these two as cancers, and I doubt they would join some insignificant team with no sponsors/salary. All the foreign teams are starting to understand how important a "Korean" practice regimen and mindset is with all of the recent Korean domination. EG is setting up a serious team house, FXO was willing to move to Korea, and I'm sure more foreign teams have plans to do similar things. Picking up these two guys would be the absolute worst message a team can send out.
Although, who knows. If Artosis was willing to roll the dice on Princess, anything can happen.
Lol please go and do some research before you spew shit from your keyboard, FD and Trickster both have NASL application videos on youtube. If I can remember correctly FD made it to RO 16 in Code S last season losing to IMNestea, the god of ZvZ that's not a terrible result.
I'm talking about the situation right now, bro. That was, what, over 3 months ago? Obviously, their motivations have changed.
Um lol. But you said this
"The only two Koreans on TSL who DIDN'T sign up for the NASL qualifiers were FD and SSKS."
this is 100% inaccurate. lol
He's obviously talking about the open tournament running right now, in which all of TSL but FD and Tester are participating. It is legal to think before you post.
For the record I cant see any good reason any top foreign team would pick these two up. Couple of has beens that show no signs of getting better as of now. Better invest in talented, up and coming, younger players, then.
ooooooooooooooooooooooo my b my b. i didnt know NASL OPEN was now ty for info
Hah, people on this forum are so nice, you respond to my rather blunt post with "oh, my bad then, thank you for informing me". I will never get used to this. I feel rather bad for being so edgy now. =(
LOL, to be honest dude, it was totally my bad. Now that I look there are NASL Open threads everywhere... totally me not paying attention. Thx for correcting me ^^
I've got both Fruitdealer and Trickster on my anti team. Jackpot hahaha! edit: that being said though sad to see them go in a sense, but hope to still see them around in SCII (just not until the current GSTL ends, amirite?!)
Arghhhhh. Both these guys have a shit ton of really raw talent. Sure, you can argue that they aren't pulling out the best results, but given their current shape based on how little they allegedly practice, they're both pretty fucking good. Some team just needs to pick up the both of them, spark the fire again, and find some way to harness their collective awesomeness. Otherwise, it'd just be a damn waste.
What if they rejoin oGs since oGs allows players to travel to international tournies :DDD mebe thats why fruitdealer couldn't go to dreamhack, his team didn't let him, thus ending in an argument and fruitdealer leaving saying he wants to go to more foreign tournaments. Tester follows him because they are butt buddies :D
On June 25 2011 07:03 DarkRise wrote: There is a trend FD missing MLG for some unknown reason Rain leave TSL wanting to participate in foreign tournaments SSks and FD leave TSL
On June 25 2011 07:03 DarkRise wrote: There is a trend FD missing MLG for some unknown reason Rain leave TSL wanting to participate in foreign tournaments SSks and FD leave TSL
FD missed DH too !
I think DarkRise meant DH and not MLG. I don't think FD ever competed in MLG?
On June 24 2011 20:00 MrSpider wrote: Tester create this team with FD! What will happen? I'm afraid that Clide, ALive and the other will leave too
They created TSL and left OGS because they didn't want the rigid training schedule. They wanted to take it easy. Remember?
That was ok before, but to produce results NOW, with teams like SlayerS you need practice and discipline. Guessing TSL wanted that and FD and Tester didn't. Their performance reflects their position on the issue.
Isn't TSL the only team that's giving their players salaries anyways? If so, it doesn't make any sense for them to leave on that basis, since ... well, FD and Tester would be giving up even more money leaving than staying. I mean, even if their salaries took a dive, at least they're still getting paid.
This is quite unfortunate news for TSL considering FruitDealer and Tester were two of their more consistent players. On the other hand, maybe they will join a team that will provide them more opportunities to compete in tournaments outside of Korea. I'm really curious to see where they both land and what the state of TSL will be now that Rain, FD, and Tester are gone.
On June 25 2011 01:44 DeepBlu2 wrote: I don't know if Fruitdealer should really try to continue his career. He hasn't performed well in so long and I don't know if he will be able to turn that around.. I really hope the best for the both of them. I always loved watching him play. Seeing players like Fruitdealer, Haypro, and Dimaga in a slump break my heart. Best of luck to the both of them.
Haypro was never really that great, but he's actually improving recently. He played well and took a game off Losira, I think he took a game off Bomber. His ZvP is still questionable, but he's definitely picking up pace. FD was good when the game was new and has fallen behind. Dimaga I can't speak for though.
On June 25 2011 09:05 HEROwithNOlegacy wrote: FXO it's your time to strike!
alot of you say this but i am quite sure it will not happen and would be bad
cause if they really leave tsl because not wanting hard training schelude like ogs (reason they left there) then teams like FXO who WANT this schelude would be horrible pick
On June 25 2011 09:25 StyLeD wrote: TSL is falling apart; WMF SC1 is disbanding...wondering about the WMF SC2 players and F.United..
Just saw that too. Sad day. Hopefully WMF SC1 doesn't disband, and it would fucking suck if WMF jumps ship on SC2 as well. (Especially for ThorZain and NaNi.) Not to mention, Moon is just starting to hit his stride, SocceR looks promising, and Lyn is a very solid Terran when you discount his somewhat questionable decision-making at times.
Goddammit, the past few weeks have been pretty distressing in terms of teams disbanding and/or getting absorbed, and players leaving. What a bad month.
On June 25 2011 09:41 fishjie wrote: i just want to see FD showing success again, don't care what team he is on. he has slipped so far behind everyone else =/
This. He's still shown flashes of brilliance from what I've seen, but it's just that: unreliable, not sustained solid play. Maybe he will operate best as an individual free to practice at his own leisure. Still, even without great results he produces exciting games and is one of my favourite players. Best of luck to him and Trickster in GSL and other tournaments.
I would die laughing if Cliiiiide soon announces his departure from TSL in favour of sixjax.
WOW, big news. Fruitdealer's victory in GSL is legendary for the fact that Z was considered UP at that point and he dominated. Having said that, I have to agree that he's slipped behind and I hope he can find another team and catch back up!
it occurred to me that if FD joined Complexity and moved into the old ROOT house in Florida, he and Catz would be like he chillest zergies together ever
Well, I love FD and Trickster even though they don't have too good of results recently. However they still should be good enough for any foreigner team/tourney. <3 gluck hf
On June 25 2011 10:43 nvs. wrote: I haven't read through the whole thread, but is there any update on why they both left?
They just had a disagreement over the direction of the team.
Speculation just on stuff I've read, this could have been potential disagreement points: - TSL are holding tryouts and trying to expand the team. FD and Trickster may not have agreed with this. They're both known to have a rather lax practice schedule and bringing in younger players may have required them to not only practice more, but coach as well. - FD and Trickster want to go to foreign tournaments and TSL are unable to provide that to them. The recent cancellation of FD's trip and Rain's departure makes me believe so. - FD and Trickster feel that they're coming closer to retirement and don't really want to interrupt the growth of the team.
Well TSL was the team mostly known for having extremely talented players that have been under performing for the last 8 months so its doesn't really come as a surprise that they want to change things in their team.
They have both been in slumps for a while doing enough to stay in code S but never really impressing with it. I also hear a lot of other people saying they want a piece of the foreign pie, but that seems unlikely. They left oGs and possibly now TSL because they didn't want to practice as much. Yes over all pool in this tournaments is less talented but still the top players practice heavily and to say just because other koreans are winning them they have a chance is iffy. The koreans winning these tournaments are people like MC, Bomber, Losira, July etc. These are the players that are also showing consistance and recent results in the GSL. They can't beat them in Korean so i don't see much hope of them beating them at MLG, Dreakhack etc.
On June 25 2011 11:33 ShampooSuicide wrote: They have both been in slumps for a while doing enough to stay in code S but never really impressing with it. I also hear a lot of other people saying they want a piece of the foreign pie, but that seems unlikely. They left oGs and possibly now TSL because they didn't want to practice as much. Yes over all pool in this tournaments is less talented but still the top players practice heavily and to say just because other koreans are winning them they have a chance is iffy. The koreans winning these tournaments are people like MC, Bomber, Losira, July etc. These are the players that are also showing consistance and recent results in the GSL. They can't beat them in Korean so i don't see much hope of them beating them at MLG, Dreakhack etc.
Thanks for leaving out Moon to strengthen your argument.
On June 25 2011 11:33 ShampooSuicide wrote: They have both been in slumps for a while doing enough to stay in code S but never really impressing with it. I also hear a lot of other people saying they want a piece of the foreign pie, but that seems unlikely. They left oGs and possibly now TSL because they didn't want to practice as much. Yes over all pool in this tournaments is less talented but still the top players practice heavily and to say just because other koreans are winning them they have a chance is iffy. The koreans winning these tournaments are people like MC, Bomber, Losira, July etc. These are the players that are also showing consistance and recent results in the GSL. They can't beat them in Korean so i don't see much hope of them beating them at MLG, Dreakhack etc.
Thanks for leaving out Moon to strengthen your argument.
Yeah, Moon and i also forgot the winner of MLG..MMA also....lol
FD and Tester are definitely slumping for GSL standards, but I'm pretty sure they are on par/better than most of the foreign players. They are still code S, and that's no small achievement.
Boxer = BW bonjwa, legendary gamer, practices more than his much younger teammates. Fruitdealer = Terrible BW player, average pro gamer, practices little. Tester = BW b-teamer, average pro gamer, practices little. Nada = BW bonjwa, legendary gamer, practices alot.
I think I see a pattern here. I expect FD and Tester will go compete in more international tournaments for easy money and good for them. They will never impact sc2 the way more passionate and driven players will.
On June 25 2011 13:59 jyLee wrote: Boxer = BW bonjwa, legendary gamer, practices more than his much younger teammates. Fruitdealer = Terrible BW player, average pro gamer, practices little. Tester = BW b-teamer, average pro gamer, practices little. Nada = BW bonjwa, legendary gamer, practices alot.
I think I see a pattern here. I expect FD and Tester will go compete in more international tournaments for easy money and good for them. They will never impact sc2 the way more passionate and driven players will.
I seriously hope they don't start trying to compete in foreign tournaments thinking they can slack off and still earn "easy money." Especially not with the Korean invites usually inserting players better than them.
If they ever rejoined oGs, I have a feeling TheWind would whip them back into shape. But it's because of that, that I don't think they will rejoin oGs.
On June 25 2011 17:33 dc302 wrote: If they ever rejoined oGs, I have a feeling TheWind would whip them back into shape. But it's because of that, that I don't think they will rejoin oGs.
oGs has a pretty full roster, I can't see them joining oGs. Though if it did happen, TheWind has shown he's a great coach.
On June 25 2011 09:05 HEROwithNOlegacy wrote: FXO it's your time to strike!
alot of you say this but i am quite sure it will not happen and would be bad
cause if they really leave tsl because not wanting hard training schelude like ogs (reason they left there) then teams like FXO who WANT this schelude would be horrible pick
This. And they wouldn't even be good mercenaries for GSTL as they both have like 0% winrate in GSTL. The only partnership I can see between FXO and Tester/Cool would be to pay them so they come like 10 hours a week at FXO's house to play against FXO members and train them.
On June 25 2011 23:07 unnar wrote: I really just hope those two disappear i dont like players who cant be botherd to practice
Yeah I'm feeling the same. I hope that they won't join a good "foreign" team just because they were good last year in the early stages of GSL. But on the other hand, I would love to see them attend tournamentss here and not take practice serious and then get destroyed at the events.
On June 25 2011 23:07 unnar wrote: I really just hope those two disappear i dont like players who cant be botherd to practice
Yeah I'm feeling the same. I hope that they won't join a good "foreign" team just because they were good last year in the early stages of GSL. But on the other hand, I would love to see them attend tournamentss here and not take practice serious and then get destroyed at the events.
Funny thing is they'd probably still clean house at LAN events without lag, lol. Don't wanna hear it, sure, but it's plain fact.
On June 25 2011 23:07 unnar wrote: I really just hope those two disappear i dont like players who cant be botherd to practice
Yeah I'm feeling the same. I hope that they won't join a good "foreign" team just because they were good last year in the early stages of GSL. But on the other hand, I would love to see them attend tournamentss here and not take practice serious and then get destroyed at the events.
Funny thing is they'd probably still clean house at LAN events without lag, lol. Don't wanna hear it, sure, but it's plain fact.
On June 25 2011 23:07 unnar wrote: I really just hope those two disappear i dont like players who cant be botherd to practice
Yeah I'm feeling the same. I hope that they won't join a good "foreign" team just because they were good last year in the early stages of GSL. But on the other hand, I would love to see them attend tournamentss here and not take practice serious and then get destroyed at the events.
Funny thing is they'd probably still clean house at LAN events without lag, lol. Don't wanna hear it, sure, but it's plain fact.
How is it plain fact?
Moon cleaned house at DreamHack pretty damn well and though I like Moon very much, I wouldn't say that he's better than these two.
On June 26 2011 01:30 .Madness wrote: TSL is dead now
Actually i think, this might save TSL in the long run. Fruitdealer never performed well after his win in Season 1. Trickster also only really had sucsses in 2010. I guess, that TSL now will start to increase their training regimen and Fruitdealer and Trickster don't want to train that much, it was the reason they left oGs after all.
So players like Alive etc. will now get a lot more training and hopefully improve. And the fact that their "Starplayers" are leaving, does not matter if you look at MVP, who are a awesome team and their most well known player until GSL May was Genius.
On June 25 2011 23:07 unnar wrote: I really just hope those two disappear i dont like players who cant be botherd to practice
Yeah I'm feeling the same. I hope that they won't join a good "foreign" team just because they were good last year in the early stages of GSL. But on the other hand, I would love to see them attend tournamentss here and not take practice serious and then get destroyed at the events.
Funny thing is they'd probably still clean house at LAN events without lag, lol. Don't wanna hear it, sure, but it's plain fact.
How is it plain fact?
Moon cleaned house at DreamHack pretty damn well and though I like Moon very much, I wouldn't say that he's better than these two.
You and the other guy don't seem to have a clue what facts are so you should probably refrain from using or commenting on the use of the word.
On June 26 2011 01:30 .Madness wrote: TSL is dead now
As a TSL fan who started following the team because of these two guys, I was bummed out at first but now I'm optimistic. As long as their and Rain's departure doesn't have something to do with behind the scene issues I think this will be benefit TSL in the long run. I think we all remember Cool's infamous interview where he said he didn't practice as much because he was always snowboarding or partying. Hopefully the team is adopting a more rigorous practice regiment and that's why they left.
On June 25 2011 23:07 unnar wrote: I really just hope those two disappear i dont like players who cant be botherd to practice
Yeah I'm feeling the same. I hope that they won't join a good "foreign" team just because they were good last year in the early stages of GSL. But on the other hand, I would love to see them attend tournamentss here and not take practice serious and then get destroyed at the events.
Funny thing is they'd probably still clean house at LAN events without lag, lol. Don't wanna hear it, sure, but it's plain fact.
How is it plain fact?
Moon cleaned house at DreamHack pretty damn well and though I like Moon very much, I wouldn't say that he's better than these two.
You and the other guy don't seem to have a clue what facts are so you should probably refrain from using or commenting on the use of the word.
Mmm and you clearly don't seem to have a clue what sardonicism is so you should probably refrain from responding to it or thinking about the use of the device. Sorry it went over your head, but the intent was to counter a ridiculous statement with an equally - subtle - ridiculous statement:
-FD and Trickster, albeit with less practice, are very talented players. Moreover, they have a wealth of experience that does not simply fade to black after a given amount of relative inactivity. -Outside of Korea, they'd still be able to easily perform well in many events. Sure, perhaps not at the top of MLG/DH, but many events nonetheless. FD at his worst, given his mechanics and replays, is still objectively better than many, many, many more casual NA tourny players. -The snide inclusion of "fact" was a sardonic poke at the the inference that it was a fact that FD/Trickster would be destroyed in the foreign/NA scene.
Two talented players still up for grabs, really curious which team will be able to get them. They haven't been the most consistent lately but I believe they would still post some really great results at the tournaments they are wanting to attend. Liquid'Fruit would be cool.
with the whole "foreigners vs koreans" and international scene in vougue atm, this would be awsome if a non-korean based team picked them up if rain can join fanatic, then having FD and trickster in an EG, liquid, mouse etc would be pretty damn impressive and exciting to follow
On June 25 2011 13:59 jyLee wrote: Boxer = BW bonjwa, legendary gamer, practices more than his much younger teammates. Fruitdealer = BW player one of estro's ace player, average pro gamer, practices little. Tester = BW b-teamer, repeated osl msl qualifer, practices little. Nada = BW bonjwa, legendary gamer, practices alot.
On June 26 2011 05:31 Irave wrote: Two talented players still up for grabs, really curious which team will be able to get them. They haven't been the most consistent lately but I believe they would still post some really great results at the tournaments they are wanting to attend. Liquid'Fruit would be cool.
On June 26 2011 09:10 Veritassong wrote: FD joining chinese team,i called it HERE. (check sc2rank.com) CN server
No way of telling whether that's really him (but rather unlikely since he always used the Korean characters for his name and not the Romanji translation...).
Regardless, there's 25 different accounts for "Fruitdealer" on sc2ranks - it's not reliable.
On June 25 2011 13:59 jyLee wrote: I expect FD and Tester will go compete in more international tournaments for easy money and good for them.
I can't imagine them winning much of that "easy money" either without improving a lot first.
Even at they're level they're far far above the average foreigner, and equal or a little below the top foreigners. They'd still make easy money.
Not nearly enough to justify the salary they gave up though.
I don't really know what you mean by "average" foreigner - can you name one? Right now I wouldn't be so quick to bet on them against Nerchio or Happy in online tournaments for example.
In their current shape (and without team house training), they're nowhere near equal to the top foreigners, and then there's also a lot of actually good Koreans who play in western tournaments regularly and will stand in their way to "easy money".
Easy money is just an illusion. Money comes to players who work hard enough, and only them, and it's never easy. Not even MC gets it that easy (or enough to rely completely on the foreign scene).
On June 25 2011 13:59 jyLee wrote: I expect FD and Tester will go compete in more international tournaments for easy money and good for them.
I can't imagine them winning much of that "easy money" either without improving a lot first.
Even at they're level they're far far above the average foreigner, and equal or a little below the top foreigners. They'd still make easy money.
Not nearly enough to justify the salary they gave up though.
I don't really know what you mean by "average" foreigner - can you name one? Right now I wouldn't be so quick to bet on them against Nerchio or Happy in online tournaments for example.
In their current shape (and without team house training), they're nowhere near equal to the top foreigners, and then there's also a lot of actually good Koreans who play in western tournaments regularly and will stand in their way to "easy money".
Easy money is just an illusion. Money comes to players who work hard enough, and only them, and it's never easy. Not even MC gets it that easy (or enough to rely completely on the foreign scene).
Does anyone know how much money they were making, really?
On June 25 2011 13:59 jyLee wrote: Boxer = BW bonjwa, legendary gamer, practices more than his much younger teammates. Fruitdealer = BW player one of estro's ace player, average pro gamer, practices little. Tester = BW b-teamer, repeated osl msl qualifer, practices little. Nada = BW bonjwa, legendary gamer, practices alot.
There we go that's a bit better
tester was a-team and played quite a few games compared to many of his estro brethren. His win percentage was pretty low but he along with Upmagic were, at a time, the only regular on the estro roster. Fruitdealer wasn't the estro ace either. He may have been pretty good in practice (don't know where he stood) but he didn't come out very much. The "practice bonjwa" of estro was magma.
On June 26 2011 01:30 .Madness wrote: TSL is dead now
As a TSL fan who started following the team because of these two guys, I was bummed out at first but now I'm optimistic. As long as their and Rain's departure doesn't have something to do with behind the scene issues I think this will be benefit TSL in the long run. I think we all remember Cool's infamous interview where he said he didn't practice as much because he was always snowboarding or partying. Hopefully the team is adopting a more rigorous practice regiment and that's why they left.
Haha, Fruitdealer. Such a baller. You don't happen to have that interview?
On June 25 2011 13:59 jyLee wrote: Boxer = BW bonjwa, legendary gamer, practices more than his much younger teammates. Fruitdealer = Terrible BW player, average pro gamer, practices little. Tester = BW b-teamer, average pro gamer, practices little. Nada = BW bonjwa, legendary gamer, practices alot.
I think I see a pattern here. I expect FD and Tester will go compete in more international tournaments for easy money and good for them. They will never impact sc2 the way more passionate and driven players will.
FD average pro gamer? nope. Tester was much better than him.
hmmm....I wonder what the future of TSL will be? Is it possible they might pick up some of the current Brood War pros this fall? Will all these players that leave TSL join up with MVP or SlayerS?
On June 26 2011 01:30 .Madness wrote: TSL is dead now
As a TSL fan who started following the team because of these two guys, I was bummed out at first but now I'm optimistic. As long as their and Rain's departure doesn't have something to do with behind the scene issues I think this will be benefit TSL in the long run. I think we all remember Cool's infamous interview where he said he didn't practice as much because he was always snowboarding or partying. Hopefully the team is adopting a more rigorous practice regiment and that's why they left.
Haha, Fruitdealer. Such a baller. You don't happen to have that interview?
I've been down on TSL for a while now. They seem to severely underperform and i've questioned if they're even taking it seriously. I hope this doesn't mean that Fruit and Tester were part of the problem, for their sake anyway. But if TSL come out of this stronger then that's a good thing.
Not sure how i feel about this, but GL HF to everyone involved.
On June 25 2011 13:59 jyLee wrote: I expect FD and Tester will go compete in more international tournaments for easy money and good for them.
I can't imagine them winning much of that "easy money" either without improving a lot first.
Even at they're level they're far far above the average foreigner, and equal or a little below the top foreigners. They'd still make easy money.
Not nearly enough to justify the salary they gave up though.
I don't really know what you mean by "average" foreigner - can you name one? Right now I wouldn't be so quick to bet on them against Nerchio or Happy in online tournaments for example.
In their current shape (and without team house training), they're nowhere near equal to the top foreigners, and then there's also a lot of actually good Koreans who play in western tournaments regularly and will stand in their way to "easy money".
Easy money is just an illusion. Money comes to players who work hard enough, and only them, and it's never easy. Not even MC gets it that easy (or enough to rely completely on the foreign scene).
Does anyone know how much money they were making, really?
That's a geniune question, I have no idea.
3) There are currently 9 players playing for the TSL as of now. The two highest paid players will be Kim Won Ki AKA TSL.FruitDealer and Seo Ki Soo AKA TSL.Trickster, with 35,000,000 KRW (around 31,000 US$) and 30,000,000 KRW (around 27,000 US$) a year respectively.
On June 25 2011 13:59 jyLee wrote: I expect FD and Tester will go compete in more international tournaments for easy money and good for them.
I can't imagine them winning much of that "easy money" either without improving a lot first.
Even at they're level they're far far above the average foreigner, and equal or a little below the top foreigners. They'd still make easy money.
Not nearly enough to justify the salary they gave up though.
I don't really know what you mean by "average" foreigner - can you name one? Right now I wouldn't be so quick to bet on them against Nerchio or Happy in online tournaments for example.
In their current shape (and without team house training), they're nowhere near equal to the top foreigners, and then there's also a lot of actually good Koreans who play in western tournaments regularly and will stand in their way to "easy money".
Easy money is just an illusion. Money comes to players who work hard enough, and only them, and it's never easy. Not even MC gets it that easy (or enough to rely completely on the foreign scene).
Does anyone know how much money they were making, really?
3) There are currently 9 players playing for the TSL as of now. The two highest paid players will be Kim Won Ki AKA TSL.FruitDealer and Seo Ki Soo AKA TSL.Trickster, with 35,000,000 KRW (around 31,000 US$) and 30,000,000 KRW (around 27,000 US$) a year respectively.
It's been active since April, but it looks like there's a huge spike in activity from June 5th. Is this a known account of FD that he just uses to mess around with, or is it possible the foreign scene he is thinking of entering is China?
I just noticed... With the departure of Rain, one of their most famous terrans left... With FD and Trickster, it's the most famous zerg and protoss players... Not sure if TSL will last much longer. Reckon Rain might've jumped out for the same reason, only earlier?
Tester and FD weren't amazing players. Tester has been very very mediocre since early in the GSL, and FD has been performing poorly... well, since about the same time. Rain was quite a loss, though. He might've been cheesy and aggressive in most of his play, but he was consistent and had the actual skill to back it up.
All in all, the timing of these departures suggests TSL might be having internal problems, but, assuming they don't lose anyone else on their current line-up, they should be able to stay competitive.
TSL going to be dead soon imo. The only thing I worry about is that it may mess up the GSTL. The team has been severely underperforming for a while now.
On June 26 2011 18:25 Ordained wrote: The LiquidFruitDealer sounds pretty baller to me.
Seriously doubt it considering the Liquid-oGs partnership; these guys did leave oGs to start their own team.
Fruitdealer is currently an irrelevant figure in SC2. He captured the first GSL from taking huge risks and earning huge windfalls; there was nothing special about his playstyle. Lack of practice and discipline has only hurt his play, and honestly you can't expect a person to remain consistent when his success has relied on constant gambles.
I hope he finds a team that will whip him into shape, because FruitDealer has so much potential that his laziness is wasting.
On June 26 2011 21:02 Mr.Brightside wrote: TSL going to be dead soon imo. The only thing I worry about is that it may mess up the GSTL. The team has been severely underperforming for a while now.
No they won't. Mama bear will just recruit new talents and TSL has been performing well in the NASL Open qualifier. 4 TSL members in NASL season 2 and atleast 1 of them will play ret in the ro16. FXO Qualifier and we have a TSL member iirc.
Only the players that were underperforming are gone. TSL will rise no doubt about it.
How many players do TSL have left? I guess they have alot of spots to fill up and they can probably attract some good up and coming players with matches in the GSTL etc now, players that maybe doesn't get that much "stage time" because they are overshadowed by bigger names.
Potential - Will - Opportunity = Can form talents to amazing players.
On June 25 2011 23:07 unnar wrote: I really just hope those two disappear i dont like players who cant be botherd to practice
Yeah I'm feeling the same. I hope that they won't join a good "foreign" team just because they were good last year in the early stages of GSL. But on the other hand, I would love to see them attend tournamentss here and not take practice serious and then get destroyed at the events.
Funny thing is they'd probably still clean house at LAN events without lag, lol. Don't wanna hear it, sure, but it's plain fact.
How is it plain fact?
Moon cleaned house at DreamHack pretty damn well and though I like Moon very much, I wouldn't say that he's better than these two.
You and the other guy don't seem to have a clue what facts are so you should probably refrain from using or commenting on the use of the word.
Mmm and you clearly don't seem to have a clue what sardonicism is so you should probably refrain from responding to it or thinking about the use of the device. Sorry it went over your head, but the intent was to counter a ridiculous statement with an equally - subtle - ridiculous statement:
-FD and Trickster, albeit with less practice, are very talented players. Moreover, they have a wealth of experience that does not simply fade to black after a given amount of relative inactivity. -Outside of Korea, they'd still be able to easily perform well in many events. Sure, perhaps not at the top of MLG/DH, but many events nonetheless. FD at his worst, given his mechanics and replays, is still objectively better than many, many, many more casual NA tourny players. -The snide inclusion of "fact" was a sardonic poke at the the inference that it was a fact that FD/Trickster would be destroyed in the foreign/NA scene.
Oh ok it was all part of your elaborate plan! I am honestly so bored of people being called out for making a dumb statement and their retort is to claim intellectual superiority while simultaneously pretending that you can reliably imply any sort of intonation on two poorly constructed written sentences. It's a huge leap to say that "I would love to see them attend tournamentss here and not take practice serious and then get destroyed at the events." implies anything about their skill level, all it is saying is that the author of that statement wants that to happen to validate his opinion that players should have to practice hard to get results.
I honestly don't know what behooves people to defend their mistakes so vehemently, it's not like anyone is going to remember your name or really effect you in any meaningful way because of it. The idea that because someone points out something wrong you did means that they're on the polar opposite of whatever perceived argument you think you're in is equally bizarre. I never commented on the players' ability to do anything yet you felt it was necessary to bombard me with speculation.
I think TSL has a HUGE oppurtunity here. They still have Clide, Puma, and Alive which makes a very solid Terran line up. If the redirect the money (I heard it was 30k each) they were paying to Fruitdealer and Tester and instead recruit 2 promising zerg and 2 protoss for 15k each (Not bad considering living costs are paid and they are young kids doing what they love) they could easily have a stronger line up than their previous one within 1-2 months.
I really hope TSL doesn't dissolve completely over this. I don't know what sort of internal politics are going on, but I always really enjoyed talking with the TSL coach. He seemed like a great guy who really put a lot of work into his team.
On June 27 2011 00:06 Moderas wrote: I think TSL has a HUGE oppurtunity here. They still have Clide, Puma, and Alive which makes a very solid Terran line up. If the redirect the money (I heard it was 30k each) they were paying to Fruitdealer and Tester and instead recruit 2 promising zerg and 2 protoss for 15k each (Not bad considering living costs are paid and they are young kids doing what they love) they could easily have a stronger line up than their previous one within 1-2 months.
Don't forget about Rain. With him gone, there's even more money available to TSL to recruit other players.
woudl be great to see fd and tester on a foreign team, just like rain. more interested in tester goes because his toss play is fun/ff's are always a treat to watch despite lackluster results.
Too bad Liquid doesn't try to acquire Fruitdealer... Thing about the news that would stir up and Liquid having their own house in Korea and competing more in the Foreigner scene a player like Fruitdealer.
On June 27 2011 06:45 Novalisk wrote: It's kind of suspicious that the entire TSL team joins the NASL open and FD+Trickster leave at about the same time.
Perhaps they didn't appreciate being forced to play late at night?
Absolutely. You have a very solid theory on your hands here. The Koreans got tired of having to play in the NASL at 4am so they decided to leave their teams, paid salaries, and their code S positions ($1300 guaranteed) so they can move to the US to play NASL during regular evening times.
On a serious note, I think FD and Tester did not have much results in Korea so they are looking for the easy way out. The problem is that presumably most of TSL's sponsorships and salaries were gotten from Fruitdealer's fame--once he leaves, the team will be left in dire straits financially.
You guys talk about how FD, Tester, and Rain's salary can be re-allocated but I doubt this will be the case. The sponsors will see that without FD, Tester and Rain, TSL will be weaker in Teamleague as well as GSL and not worthy of their old contracts. The remaining players don't have much starpower. I just hope everything goes well for them.
On June 27 2011 06:45 Novalisk wrote: It's kind of suspicious that the entire TSL team joins the NASL open and FD+Trickster leave at about the same time.
Perhaps they didn't appreciate being forced to play late at night?
Absolutely. You have a very solid theory on your hands here. The Koreans got tired of having to play in the NASL at 4am so they decided to leave their teams, paid salaries, and their code S positions ($1300 guaranteed) so they can move to the US to play NASL during regular evening times.
On a serious note, I think FD and Tester did not have much results in Korea so they are looking for the easy way out. The problem is that presumably most of TSL's sponsorships and salaries were gotten from Fruitdealer's fame--once he leaves, the team will be left in dire straits financially.
You guys talk about how FD, Tester, and Rain's salary can be re-allocated but I doubt this will be the case. The sponsors will see that without FD, Tester and Rain, TSL will be weaker in Teamleague as well as GSL and not worthy of their old contracts. The remaining players don't have much starpower. I just hope everything goes well for them.
Did Fruitdealer, TesteR and Rain (well Rain seemed to train a bit more than them) eve get results in GSTL? I can only recall them losing, they are on many people anti team. I hope that TSL will still be able to do well / still have sponsors.
On June 27 2011 01:31 DoA wrote: I really hope TSL doesn't dissolve completely over this. I don't know what sort of internal politics are going on, but I always really enjoyed talking with the TSL coach. He seemed like a great guy who really put a lot of work into his team.
I met you at MLG!
I hope TSL stays a team simply because I love their jackets.
On June 24 2011 20:15 Mario1209 wrote: damn, first Rain now trickster and fruitdealer. TSL falling apart =\
He says, as the semi finals of the NASL Open Tournnament consist of all TSL...
Eh, and the TL Open finals consisted of all NEX players. I dunno that you should read too heavily into these online qualifiers right now; outside of the very tip-top players, NA/EU are clearly not on the level of Korea right now.
Winning NA/EU online qualifiers does not mean TSL is going to be doing well in GSL/GSTL anytime soon.
I thought that Fruitdealer had military service in 2 months so him joining a team seems unlikely cause it would be only a short term investment. Trickster on the other hand will most likely be able to get on any team that is looking for players.
On June 27 2011 13:54 DAofCanada wrote: I thought that Fruitdealer had military service in 2 months so him joining a team seems unlikely cause it would be only a short term investment..
In that infamous interview where he says how much he likes to drink and not practise, I thought FruitDealer said he was denied by the army because of a pre-existing Thyroid disorder.
On June 27 2011 13:54 DAofCanada wrote: I thought that Fruitdealer had military service in 2 months so him joining a team seems unlikely cause it would be only a short term investment..
In that infamous interview where he says how much he likes to drink and not practise, I thought FruitDealer said he was denied by the army because of a pre-existing Thyroid disorder.
@KillerShin 신상호 korea now goodafternoon~ american now goodevening ^^
Killer Trolling or is he coming!
Uh not really, what major tournaments are there in NA anytime soon anyways? He's probably simply saying the proper greeting for the respective time zones.
On June 27 2011 06:45 Novalisk wrote: It's kind of suspicious that the entire TSL team joins the NASL open and FD+Trickster leave at about the same time.
Perhaps they didn't appreciate being forced to play late at night?
Absolutely. You have a very solid theory on your hands here. The Koreans got tired of having to play in the NASL at 4am so they decided to leave their teams, paid salaries, and their code S positions ($1300 guaranteed) so they can move to the US to play NASL during regular evening times.
Never did I even imply they're moving to the US, I don't know where you got that from.
I was more thinking that they, being adults, had social lives and didn't want to mess up their sleep schedule. They can move to another team and get a lesser salary, in exchange for being able to sleep at night.
They obviosly watched MC having fun @ the homestoryCup and decided, that it would be cool to sit in an irishpub watching games and having White-Ra BBQ for them, having a whiskey coke with rotterdam, and playing Poker with Huk. There is simply no other explanation for this ^_^
it's good for international gaming to see the more skilled players leaving the isolated Korean-league and try to make some name in the rest of the world.
Looks like Trickster joined ST, was looking at the list for the people signed up for the NASL Season 2 Qualifier and some ST people signed up at the last second, one of them being StarTaleTrickster
On June 28 2011 22:52 Vonthin wrote: Looks like Trickster joined ST, was looking at the list for the people signed up for the NASL Season 2 Qualifier and some ST people signed up at the last second, one of them being StarTaleTrickster
Just noticed that too, and 티에스엘사기수 is TSL_Trickster, so that should be him alright.
Could be interesting for Trickster to be in Startale. They seem to be one of the teams with a good mix of veterans and young players, and might be a good place for Trickster to return to his former glory. Also with ST making a lot of trips overseas, kind of fits well with Trickster's desire to play overseas.
A bit strange that he didn't represent them today during the GSL though. Maybe in the Ro16?
On June 28 2011 22:52 Vonthin wrote: Looks like Trickster joined ST, was looking at the list for the people signed up for the NASL Season 2 Qualifier and some ST people signed up at the last second, one of them being StarTaleTrickster
as I understand it, TSL wants to be able to see their players go abroad and play more competitively in the potentially lucrative foreigner scene (from a publicity perspective if not price money) fruitdealer & tester disagree and leave the team since it will demand more of their time or some such
Happy to see TesteR in ST. Hopefully it'll be better for him than TSL, since I'd certainly like to see him back to his old form. As for FruitDealer, I hope he finds a good team as well. I'll always be a fan of the Fruit Dealer <3
Tester did say in his interview that he might be in a team by the end of the week, so it could very well be that he is indeed in ST. No idea about FD though...
That last match Fruitdealer played was horrible. As a Fruitdealer fan it was extremely hard to watch. It looked like he didnt even try really I guess he is finished.
On June 29 2011 19:43 pookadin wrote: That last match Fruitdealer played was horrible. As a Fruitdealer fan it was extremely hard to watch. It looked like he didnt even try really I guess he is finished.
Yeah, it was undeniably painful to watch. I thought he was getting back into shape from how he played in the super tourney, but ...
Man, being a FruitDealer fan is frustrating as hell. I hope he gets his spark back wherever he decides to go from here. I don't want him to retire, but he doesn't seem to have any passion for the game anymore - he just looks tired and weary as all get out now - and at this point, he should really do what makes himself happy. If that means he's going to retire or take a break or go to the army, I might go cry in the corner, but I just hope he sorts himself out from here, mentally and physically.
On June 28 2011 22:52 Vonthin wrote: Looks like Trickster joined ST, was looking at the list for the people signed up for the NASL Season 2 Qualifier and some ST people signed up at the last second, one of them being StarTaleTrickster
can someone verify?
There's a guy who registered under that name (StarTaleTrickster) and gave his ID as Trickster's Korean ladder account (roughly translated to TSL_Sagisoo).
On June 22 2011 13:40 saefok wrote: I saw KawaiiRice playing Rain yesterday. They were talking about how there are possibilities that Rain might join Fnatic. In my honest opinion, joining FXO would make much more sense.
lies
In his defense he could ofc be saying he disagreed with "In my honest opinion, joining FXO would make much more sense". But well all know what he ment :D.
On June 22 2011 13:40 saefok wrote: I saw KawaiiRice playing Rain yesterday. They were talking about how there are possibilities that Rain might join Fnatic. In my honest opinion, joining FXO would make much more sense.
lies
In his defense he could ofc be saying he disagreed with "In my honest opinion, joining FXO would make much more sense". But well all know what he ment :D.
You know if you look at it in a different light, Xeris could have been responding to how Rain joining FXO would make much more sense. Either way, the thread was closed for a reason, because this news hasn't been confirmed yet, and right now it seems more likely for Trickster to have joined Startale rather than Complexity.
On June 29 2011 23:12 Popcorn1 wrote: That was not FD and Trickster who joined our roster. Those were fake accounts. We have not picked up either of those players.
On June 29 2011 23:12 Popcorn1 wrote: That was not FD and Trickster who joined our roster. Those were fake accounts. We have not picked up either of those players.
On June 29 2011 23:12 Popcorn1 wrote: That was not FD and Trickster who joined our roster. Those were fake accounts. We have not picked up either of those players.
Lol that's not coincidental at all.
the manager of the sc2 coL team comes out and says its fake and you dont believe him? its already been said no by several complexity members
On June 30 2011 01:05 YeYo wrote: FD is going to the army in 2 months so.... i call fake
Is there a source for this? So many people are saying it but no sources. Sorry if theres something I dont know about in Sth Korea. I know they have mandatory Miilitary Service but I dont know when thats supposed to start for people.
On June 30 2011 01:05 YeYo wrote: FD is going to the army in 2 months so.... i call fake
Is there a source for this? So many people are saying it but no sources. Sorry if theres something I dont know about in Sth Korea. I know they have mandatory Miilitary Service but I dont know when thats supposed to start for people.
They're quite flexible with it. People like Nada and July who are a little bit older haven't gone to the military yet, while progamers who are much younger have (there's an age where you have to report). IIRC, FD was supposed to go earlier but had some medical problem so he's service was delayed. Heard he was planning to go back soon though/
People talk about Fruitdealer and Trickster like they were once Code S players, and presently Code B, or sent into even more obscurity.
Sure they have not produced the results that they had hoped(which is true for all TSL members), but it would be good to keep a sound perspective, and not call them mediocre/decent or something similar.
FD did pretty well GSL May, but lost 2-1 to the superzerg. Trickster has had some bad draws as well. Both have had pretty good games also, and I can't recall them having terrible games.
On July 01 2011 22:17 Dracolich70 wrote: People talk about Fruitdealer and Trickster like they were once Code S players, and presently Code B, or sent into even more obscurity.
Sure they have not produced the results that they had hoped(which is true for all TSL members), but it would be good to keep a sound perspective, and not call them mediocre/decent or something similar.
FD did pretty well GSL May, but lost 2-1 to the superzerg. Trickster has had some bad draws as well. Both have had pretty good games also, and I can't recall them having terrible games.
It doesn't really matter how good you are today, if you have no motivation to practice hard and don't even try to improve.
On July 01 2011 22:17 Dracolich70 wrote: People talk about Fruitdealer and Trickster like they were once Code S players, and presently Code B, or sent into even more obscurity.
Sure they have not produced the results that they had hoped(which is true for all TSL members), but it would be good to keep a sound perspective, and not call them mediocre/decent or something similar.
FD did pretty well GSL May, but lost 2-1 to the superzerg. Trickster has had some bad draws as well. Both have had pretty good games also, and I can't recall them having terrible games.
It doesn't really matter how good you are today, if you have no motivation to practice hard and don't even try to improve.
Not accusing anybody of anything, just saying....
Both Trickster and FD have improved. FD just lost in GSL May to IMNestea in a very close match. Also remember that it is held up against the incredible work ethics of Koreans. I am not arguing against TSLs decision, but peoples judgments on both said behavior and their abilities as pro-gamers.
I appreciate your response, but it seems that you don't address what I said, and to whom I was addressing.
On July 01 2011 22:17 Dracolich70 wrote: People talk about Fruitdealer and Trickster like they were once Code S players, and presently Code B, or sent into even more obscurity.
Sure they have not produced the results that they had hoped(which is true for all TSL members), but it would be good to keep a sound perspective, and not call them mediocre/decent or something similar.
FD did pretty well GSL May, but lost 2-1 to the superzerg. Trickster has had some bad draws as well. Both have had pretty good games also, and I can't recall them having terrible games.
It doesn't really matter how good you are today, if you have no motivation to practice hard and don't even try to improve.
Not accusing anybody of anything, just saying....
Both Trickster and FD have improved. FD just lost in GSL May to IMNestea in a very close match. Also remember that it is held up against the incredible work ethics of Koreans. I am not arguing against TSLs decision, but peoples judgments on both said behavior and their abilities as pro-gamers.
I appreciate your response, but it seems that you don't address what I said, and to whom I was addressing.
It was a stupid match. FD Early Pool + Drone pull vs NesTea Hatch first. NesTea Early Pool + Drone pull vs FD Hatch first. Boring macro game where both players sat back and made Roaches but NesTea just had more because FD made a stupid attack.
On July 01 2011 22:17 Dracolich70 wrote: Trickster has had some bad draws as well. Both have had pretty good games also, and I can't recall them having terrible games.
You seem to have missed Trickster - TheBestFou in the GSL Super Tournament. : (
On July 01 2011 22:17 Dracolich70 wrote: Trickster has had some bad draws as well. Both have had pretty good games also, and I can't recall them having terrible games.
You seem to have missed Trickster - TheBestFou in the GSL Super Tournament. : (
On July 01 2011 22:17 Dracolich70 wrote: People talk about Fruitdealer and Trickster like they were once Code S players, and presently Code B, or sent into even more obscurity.
Sure they have not produced the results that they had hoped(which is true for all TSL members), but it would be good to keep a sound perspective, and not call them mediocre/decent or something similar.
FD did pretty well GSL May, but lost 2-1 to the superzerg. Trickster has had some bad draws as well. Both have had pretty good games also, and I can't recall them having terrible games.
It doesn't really matter how good you are today, if you have no motivation to practice hard and don't even try to improve.
Not accusing anybody of anything, just saying....
Both Trickster and FD have improved. FD just lost in GSL May to IMNestea in a very close match. Also remember that it is held up against the incredible work ethics of Koreans. I am not arguing against TSLs decision, but peoples judgments on both said behavior and their abilities as pro-gamers.
I appreciate your response, but it seems that you don't address what I said, and to whom I was addressing.
It was a stupid match. FD Early Pool + Drone pull vs NesTea Hatch first. NesTea Early Pool + Drone pull vs FD Hatch first. Boring macro game where both players sat back and made Roaches but NesTea just had more because FD made a stupid attack.
So your conclusion must be that NesTea was a tad better than FD. Nestea won that tournament. Ergo FD is not decent nor mediocre, but a tad worse than the best ZvZ'er.
On July 01 2011 22:17 Dracolich70 wrote: Trickster has had some bad draws as well. Both have had pretty good games also, and I can't recall them having terrible games.
You seem to have missed Trickster - TheBestFou in the GSL Super Tournament. : (
I guess I have, so I will hold my judgment on that one, until I do see it. But does it make Trickster decent or mediocre?
Have you guys seen FD's latest games in Code A? Can someone come up with a defending argument for FD after a game like that. I can except bad play but it seriously looks VERY BAD for FD right now.
When a zerg player pulls all of his drones just before GG'ing that sends a very strong message.
On July 02 2011 05:56 Snuggles wrote: Have you guys seen FD's latest games in Code A? Can someone come up with a defending argument for FD after a game like that. I can except bad play but it seriously looks VERY BAD for FD right now.
When a zerg player pulls all of his drones just before GG'ing that sends a very strong message.
He's not in code A yet, he's going to the up/down to see if he can keep his spot.
-1st GSL fruitdealer came 1st Code S - Highest ranked player in the world. -2nd GSL fruit came top 32 Code S, together with mvp and mc (lost to marineking.... mkp came 2nd place) -3rd GSL fruit came top 8 Code S, together with nestea and marineking... -4th GSL fruit came top 32 Code S, together with polt and inca (mvp, zenio and fruitdealer in the same group, very hard group, cant give him flack for that- MVP won the tournament) -5th GSL fruit came top 32 Code S, together with mvp, idra, polt, top, nestea, boxer, genious, inca and marineking................................................... wasnt really the only star to lose in ro32 -6th GSL fruit came top 16 Code S, lost 2-1 against nestea - is nestea good? Nestea won the whole tournament. -7th GSL fruit came top 64 Code S, together with july, mc and losira - do these players suck aswell? -8th GSL fruit came top 32 Code S, together with july, marineking, alicia... (yet)
Give him a fucking break, he has performed very well in gsl. He was the highest ranked player in the world after GSL 1.. so of course people expect much more of him.
Just look at it closely; 1st - he won 2nd - lost to mkp who got 2nd place 3rd ro8 4th lost to mvp and zenio, mvp won the tourney 5th ro32 together with every other star in sc2s history basically 6th ro16 to nestea who won the tourney 7th bo64, ok that was bad 8th ro32 already with 3 other BIG stars...
I would say that out of these 8 gsl seasons he has done badly in 2. Did people really expect him to beat nestea, mvp, marinking? Wow it seems he has some very high demands on his shoulders....
The guy doesnt practice.. dont you think he is doing well for a guy that doesnt practice?!
The guy doesnt practice.. dont you think he is doing well for a guy that doesnt practice?!
Exactly, the guy doesn't practice, why does he deserve a spot in code s, a spot in gsl altogether , when there are people out there who practice 8-10 hours a day and haven't even made code a yet, imo this isn't fair? It is sad that FD will go down to code a, and will retire very soon, but this goes to show, you shouldn't be able to be a "pro" in sc2, especially in korea, "if you only practice 6 hrs a day, somedays, on a good day."
The guy doesnt practice.. dont you think he is doing well for a guy that doesnt practice?!
Exactly, the guy doesn't practice, why does he deserve a spot in code s, a spot in gsl altogether , when there are people out there who practice 8-10 hours a day and haven't even made code a yet, imo this isn't fair? It is sad that FD will go down to code a, and will retire very soon, but this goes to show, you shouldn't be able to be a "pro" in sc2, especially in korea, "if you only practice 6 hrs a day, somedays, on a good day."
Practice does not matter, he stays in code s because he wins the matches. So he deserves to stay.
Any team that could pick him up and motivate him would have a siiiiiiiick player.
Fruitdealer has never being doing "bad" if you look in term of result in the GSL, but his play is somewhat mediocre now. GSL, specialy code S is a hard place to go in, but staying in it is way easier than being ejected of it.
The guy doesnt practice.. dont you think he is doing well for a guy that doesnt practice?!
Exactly, the guy doesn't practice, why does he deserve a spot in code s, a spot in gsl altogether , when there are people out there who practice 8-10 hours a day and haven't even made code a yet, imo this isn't fair? It is sad that FD will go down to code a, and will retire very soon, but this goes to show, you shouldn't be able to be a "pro" in sc2, especially in korea, "if you only practice 6 hrs a day, somedays, on a good day."
He deserves a spot in the GSL, because he earned that spot from his past performances. This holds true for all players in the GSL. We'll see if he deserves a future Code S spot from his performance in the upcoming Up/Down matches.
His play earlier this week was painful to see but not particularly surprising. Simply put, his mind wasn't in the game; he wasn't all there. His announcement during group selections regarding a possible retirement basically says all you need to know about his current mindset; he's been thinking about retirement, because he hasn't been doing well and no longer has much confidence in his own play; this in turn drains any enthusiasm for the game, which makes practicing akin to pulling teeth, especially for someone who already doesn't like to practice. Basically, this mode of thought is what first needs to be "fixed" if he wants to show good results in the future, assuming he doesn't retire. His games on Wednesday were extremely disappointing, but given that a.) he's clearly worn out and b.) he no longer has a good practice environment or any team support, the results are hardly shocking.
Having said all of that (oh god, it was really fucking depressing to write this post), I really hope a team picks him up soon, if only because it might light the fire in him again. Kind of like Genius getting his mojo back from joining MVP.
The guy doesnt practice.. dont you think he is doing well for a guy that doesnt practice?!
Exactly, the guy doesn't practice, why does he deserve a spot in code s, a spot in gsl altogether , when there are people out there who practice 8-10 hours a day and haven't even made code a yet, imo this isn't fair? It is sad that FD will go down to code a, and will retire very soon, but this goes to show, you shouldn't be able to be a "pro" in sc2, especially in korea, "if you only practice 6 hrs a day, somedays, on a good day."
He deserves a spot in the GSL, because he earned that spot from his past performances. This holds true for all players in the GSL. We'll see if he deserves a future Code S spot from his performance in the upcoming Up/Down matches.
His play earlier this week was painful to see but not particularly surprising. Simply put, his mind wasn't in the game; he wasn't all there. His announcement during group selections regarding a possible retirement basically says all you need to know about his current mindset; he's been thinking about retirement, because he hasn't been doing well and no longer has much confidence in his own play; this in turn drains any enthusiasm for the game, which makes practicing akin to pulling teeth, especially for someone who already doesn't like to practice. Basically, this mode of thought is what first needs to be "fixed" if he wants to show good results in the future, assuming he doesn't retire. His games on Wednesday were extremely disappointing, but given that a.) he's clearly worn out and b.) he no longer has a good practice environment or any team support, the results are hardly shocking.
Having said all of that (oh god, it was really fucking depressing to write this post), I really hope a team picks him up soon, if only because it might light the fire in him again. Kind of like Genius getting his mojo back from joining MVP.
Basically, it's telling us that, TSL is removed from Korean SC2 Organization. Few reasons are listed, one of the main reason was TSL coach was lying to their players about incomes from their sponsorships for player salaries. Which was provided properly by their sponsors. TSL coach however lied and did not pay the correct (or not paid) the salary to TSL players.
This is basic idea of what happened, I'm sorry it is paraphrased a lot, but that is the main point of the article. As I mentioned, better version of translation will be up later, because it is HUGE news in SC2 community.
On August 04 2011 19:19 ggyu89 wrote: Hi, I'm Korean Australian. I've been reading about it. http://www.playxp.com/sc2/news/view.php?article_id=3252008 It is indeed very big news. Better version of translation will be up later on by Milkis probably.
Basically, it's telling us that, TSL is removed from Korean SC2 Organization. Few reasons are listed, one of the main reason was TSL coach was lying to their players about incomes from their sponsorships for player salaries. Which was provided properly by their sponsors. TSL coach however lied and did not pay the correct (or not paid) the salary to TSL players.
This is basic idea of what happened, I'm sorry it is paraphrased a lot, but that is the main point of the article. As I mentioned, better version of translation will be up lately, because it is HUGE news in SC2 community
Wow, crazy. Someone linked it over in the GSTL thread, said it was big, but no one could clarify too well, just bits and pieces.
On August 04 2011 19:24 Telcontar wrote: I'm working on a translation.
If you can sort this out please make a thread about it, with additional help from the likes of Milkis we can finally begin to understand exactly what went down when TSL began losing some of its best players.
On August 04 2011 19:19 ggyu89 wrote: Hi, I'm Korean Australian. I've been reading about it. http://www.playxp.com/sc2/news/view.php?article_id=3252008 It is indeed very big news. Better version of translation will be up later on by Milkis probably.
Basically, it's telling us that, TSL is removed from Korean SC2 Organization. Few reasons are listed, one of the main reason was TSL coach was lying to their players about incomes from their sponsorships for player salaries. Which was provided properly by their sponsors. TSL coach however lied and did not pay the correct (or not paid) the salary to TSL players.
This is basic idea of what happened, I'm sorry it is paraphrased a lot, but that is the main point of the article. As I mentioned, better version of translation will be up later, because it is HUGE news in SC2 community.
Edit: typos
I know you want to break the news to people and I dont want to sound like EG but in the article there were some allegation against FD and Trickster which you clearly left out.
I dont think being removed from SC2 association is as big as some might think. For instance, Slayers are not in SC2 association for whatever reason as well.
However, it looks very shrewd move by TSL coach. No matter what kind of conduct FD and Trickster were responsible, not paying the full salary promised is just bad.
On August 04 2011 19:19 ggyu89 wrote: Hi, I'm Korean Australian. I've been reading about it. http://www.playxp.com/sc2/news/view.php?article_id=3252008 It is indeed very big news. Better version of translation will be up later on by Milkis probably.
Basically, it's telling us that, TSL is removed from Korean SC2 Organization. Few reasons are listed, one of the main reason was TSL coach was lying to their players about incomes from their sponsorships for player salaries. Which was provided properly by their sponsors. TSL coach however lied and did not pay the correct (or not paid) the salary to TSL players.
This is basic idea of what happened, I'm sorry it is paraphrased a lot, but that is the main point of the article. As I mentioned, better version of translation will be up later, because it is HUGE news in SC2 community.
Edit: typos
This changes everything. I assume EG actually knew about this too?
On August 04 2011 19:27 Trumpet wrote: Oh man, I can't help but laugh if that summary is true.
So much for "honor and respect"
thanks in advance to any translator, and I hope this helps take some of the heat off EG/Puma
This has anything to do with that because?
Because TSL coach made a big deal about Puma leaving while he himself is possibly dishonest.
No he made a big deal about EG approaching the player without contacting coach lee, the manager first, he doesn't hate the fact that Puma leaving the team, he hates people approaching his players behind his back. Hell, he even threw a leaving party for Puma, he even wished him the best of luck in the last interview even though he wasn't directly asked about the matter. Makes your fact straight before saying anything
On August 04 2011 19:27 Trumpet wrote: Oh man, I can't help but laugh if that summary is true.
So much for "honor and respect"
thanks in advance to any translator, and I hope this helps take some of the heat off EG/Puma
This has anything to do with that because?
Because TSL coach made a big deal about Puma leaving while he himself is possibly dishonest.
No he made a big deal about EG approaching the player without contacting coach lee, the manager first, he doesn't hate the fact that Puma leaving the team, he hates people approaching his players behind his back. Hell, he even threw a leaving party for Puma, he even wished him the best of luck in the last interview even though he wasn't directly asked about the matter. Makes your fact straight before saying anything
It is about honor in the end, and this guy possible has none so EG were not the bad guys in that case. You know what they say: "let the man without sin throw the first stone."
On August 04 2011 19:35 Philosophy wrote: So EG were the good guys.
i just hope that all the EG supportesr(vs the TSL coach supporters) don't are gonna spam/shout "HAHAHA SUP FOOLS?" because of the situation, hopefully there won't be anymore drama(that was so pointless)
who am i kidding, as soon as this gets out, we will have another flamewar
On August 04 2011 19:27 Trumpet wrote: Oh man, I can't help but laugh if that summary is true.
So much for "honor and respect"
thanks in advance to any translator, and I hope this helps take some of the heat off EG/Puma
This has anything to do with that because?
Because TSL coach made a big deal about Puma leaving while he himself is possibly dishonest.
No he made a big deal about EG approaching the player without contacting coach lee, the manager first, he doesn't hate the fact that Puma leaving the team, he hates people approaching his players behind his back. Hell, he even threw a leaving party for Puma, he even wished him the best of luck in the last interview even though he wasn't directly asked about the matter. Makes your fact straight before saying anything
It is about honor in the end, and this guy possible has none so EG were not the bad guys in that case. You know what they say: "let the man without sin throw the first stone."
This doesn't really make sense. You're saying because TSL might have a big problem, EG automatically regains honor for approaching players behind the teams backs?
On August 04 2011 19:27 Trumpet wrote: Oh man, I can't help but laugh if that summary is true.
So much for "honor and respect"
thanks in advance to any translator, and I hope this helps take some of the heat off EG/Puma
This has anything to do with that because?
Because TSL coach made a big deal about Puma leaving while he himself is possibly dishonest.
No he made a big deal about EG approaching the player without contacting coach lee, the manager first, he doesn't hate the fact that Puma leaving the team, he hates people approaching his players behind his back. Hell, he even threw a leaving party for Puma, he even wished him the best of luck in the last interview even though he wasn't directly asked about the matter. Makes your fact straight before saying anything
It is about honor in the end, and this guy possible has none so EG were not the bad guys in that case. You know what they say: "let the man without sin throw the first stone."
Well... can't say anything for sure yet. But even if this is true, it doesn't change the EG situation if EG didn't know about any of this.
At the same time, if this is true, than you can say Rekrul was completely right haha.
And why the fuck does everyone bring this EG shit out here again, this has nothing to do with it, regardless of how the results from this could have changed the EG case, IT HAS ABSOLUTELY NOTHING TO DO WITH IT AT THIS POINT At least let our translators give us a decent translation before you guys say anything prematurel because i don't think the translations above are even reliable judging from how ggyu89 missed a part of the threads.
On August 04 2011 19:27 Trumpet wrote: Oh man, I can't help but laugh if that summary is true.
So much for "honor and respect"
thanks in advance to any translator, and I hope this helps take some of the heat off EG/Puma
This has anything to do with that because?
Because TSL coach made a big deal about Puma leaving while he himself is possibly dishonest.
No he made a big deal about EG approaching the player without contacting coach lee, the manager first, he doesn't hate the fact that Puma leaving the team, he hates people approaching his players behind his back. Hell, he even threw a leaving party for Puma, he even wished him the best of luck in the last interview even though he wasn't directly asked about the matter. Makes your fact straight before saying anything
It is about honor in the end, and this guy possible has none so EG were not the bad guys in that case. You know what they say: "let the man without sin throw the first stone."
Because this guy doesn't have 'honor' doesn't mean the other guy is good guy. I mean, I don't even have to explain it to you if you think about it.
Besides, you are assuming what ggyu89 wrote is the truth. Which is not 100% actually. I knew when ggyu89 paraphrased only the part he wanted, it would lead to this.
I am eagerly awaiting the translation.. I am a big TSL fan and also a big FruitDealer fan..the bits I could understand using Google Translate were shocking enough.. ...To think Coach Lee was withholding money from the team?!
On August 04 2011 19:27 Trumpet wrote: Oh man, I can't help but laugh if that summary is true.
So much for "honor and respect"
thanks in advance to any translator, and I hope this helps take some of the heat off EG/Puma
This has anything to do with that because?
Because TSL coach made a big deal about Puma leaving while he himself is possibly dishonest.
No he made a big deal about EG approaching the player without contacting coach lee, the manager first, he doesn't hate the fact that Puma leaving the team, he hates people approaching his players behind his back. Hell, he even threw a leaving party for Puma, he even wished him the best of luck in the last interview even though he wasn't directly asked about the matter. Makes your fact straight before saying anything
It is about honor in the end, and this guy possible has none so EG were not the bad guys in that case. You know what they say: "let the man without sin throw the first stone."
I also like
"it is like the pot calling the kettle black"
But i am going to wait tell at least we get a translation from Milkis, want to get the full story tell i make any judgements at least. From that translation though it is looking real bad for TSL.
Actually it changes everything because a guy that was crying for the attitude EG took, did something much worse to his own players!
You are a lier and cheater! You say you love and protect your players when in fact you cheat them out of their hard earned money! These guys play for 10 hours a day live without any privacy and real life besides their work and their coach cheats them out of money???
In my book thats 10x worse then hiring a player and pay them what they deserve even if they "steal" it from another team..
On August 04 2011 19:59 shell wrote: Actually it changes everything because a guy that was crying for the attitude EG took, did something much worse to his own players!
You are a lier and cheater! You say you love and protect your players when in fact you cheat them out of their hard earned money! These guys play for 10 hours a day live without any privacy and real life besides their work and their coach cheats them out of money???
In my book thats 10x worse then hiring a player and pay them what they deserve even if they "steal" it from another team..
People these days, assuming everything they heard is right without investigate it properly, WE DON"T EVEN HAVE A BLOODY PROPER TRANSLATION YET!!!!! -_-
On August 04 2011 20:01 pookadin wrote: This may shed some light on why FruitDealer has been struggling? How can he focus seriously when he thinks he is being swindled by his own Team...
Actually he admitted it himself that he doesn't practice much, go skiing instead, so yeah, that's the reason why he's been underperforming
On August 04 2011 20:01 pookadin wrote: This may shed some light on why FruitDealer has been struggling? How can he focus seriously when he thinks he is being swindled by his own Team...
In the original article, it seemed like FD has only himself to blame for his poor conduct. Which lead to the friction between the team and FD. SC2 association was asking for FD and Trickster to reform their act and redeem themselves with proper conduct.
As for the amount not being paid for, I believe it is about 6000 dollar US for about 45 days of salary and G skille ads.
On August 04 2011 20:10 Taryssa wrote: So what does this mean for TSL as a team?
As far as tournaments and playing in events and such goes, as well as recruiting new players.
So probably nothing (at this point) as it appears that Slayers is not part of the group either, but it does shed more negative light on TSL, so players are probably not looking to join them...
On August 04 2011 20:10 Taryssa wrote: So what does this mean for TSL as a team?
As far as tournaments and playing in events and such goes, as well as recruiting new players.
as far as I know, nothing changed. For instance, team slayers is not with SC2 association and I dont see it being a limiting factor in anyways for them.
However, this has got to have some sort of effect on current TSL player. Wait for full translation for more details.
On August 04 2011 20:10 Taryssa wrote: So what does this mean for TSL as a team?
As far as tournaments and playing in events and such goes, as well as recruiting new players.
Nothing will happens to them in terms of tournament, like Slayers is not even part of this SC2 council, and they still playing GSTL and GSL. In terms of sponsors, they may get less money from sponsors. I don't think this would really affect recruiting new players, they just got 3 new players, neel, raknarog and ultimate (he lost to boxer in the final round in the qualifier)
On August 04 2011 19:27 Trumpet wrote: Oh man, I can't help but laugh if that summary is true.
So much for "honor and respect"
thanks in advance to any translator, and I hope this helps take some of the heat off EG/Puma
This has anything to do with that because?
Because TSL coach made a big deal about Puma leaving while he himself is possibly dishonest.
No he made a big deal about EG approaching the player without contacting coach lee, the manager first, he doesn't hate the fact that Puma leaving the team, he hates people approaching his players behind his back. Hell, he even threw a leaving party for Puma, he even wished him the best of luck in the last interview even though he wasn't directly asked about the matter. Makes your fact straight before saying anything
... And after that went public and BMed EG & Puma !
He said that EGs conduct was not respectful etc ... Well how respectful is lying to your players, and cheating them out of money while depriving them of making a living off of sc2 ( Because as EG said Lee would have never let Puma go ( or if he did for an insane transfer fee ) if they would have contacted him instead of Puma.
Of course this needs to be confirmed but if it is indeed true then this is just so hypocritical and more importantly very sad for the TSL players. The way I see it is manager(s) getting a bunch of young kids, giving them a good fun environment, being friendly etc ... so the players, who keep in mind are basically kids, are happy and unaware of what is really going on. Just so they can pocket the sponsor money ( after paying for the houses expenses, obviously ).
Im glad for Puma btw ! Im pretty sure he would have been bullied/conned out of his NASL winnings just like clyde and ( I forget ) gave their earnings back to the house to pay for expenses ! Of course they did so of their own free will but think how easy it is for a manager, their mentor & boss & friend who ( im sure they were reminded ) they owe everything, to guilt trip/con them into giving their money back ! Very easy !
On August 04 2011 20:16 Jiddra wrote: Coach Lee has been talking about not being able to make good on his promises to FD and Trickster. I guess they wasn't as understanding as he hoped.
I wonder how the sponsors of TSL will take this news, it would be a tough blow for the team if they lost a sponsorship now.
The SCV life seems to be a hard one at the moment.
However, the need for a proper translation can't be stressed enough.
The promise you're talking about maybe the promise that coach lee will keep the team unites (in the Puma leaving interview) after FD and tester left.
IMO, both FD, Trickster and TSL coach lied each other a bit. I want to write down a brief summary of how I perceive it went down, just in case, noone wants to translate. Don't hold me accountable or anything but I will try to cover every bases.
- TSL wanting to rebuild
- FD and Trickster definitely not wanting to be part of the rebuild. TSL claims FD and Trickster were really a non team player (that's being generous) during the whole ordeal.
- TSL coach and some of the team members decided to withhold pay for both of them for about 30~45 days. (depends on which side you want to believe). And since TSL was in bad financial shape, they decided to use that money on team. (TSL was loaning money from Bank for living expense at that time)
- Also they might have lied to FD and Trickster that they were not getting the sponsor money during this period.
- FD and Trickster bring this matter to SC2 association.
- SC2 association tells FD and Trickster to act properly like a professional. and tells TSL to pay up. or Out
- however this decision came about without listening to TSL's side.
- SC2 association initially said there would be no appeal to this case but then they changed their minds.
- TSL decided to part ways with SC2 association anyways.
IMO, pretty amateurish conduct by everyone involved. Anyway, this is basically what's out so far. Maybe there is more to this story and someone else will pick it up from there.
IMO, both FD, Trickster and TSL coach lied each other a bit. I want to write down a brief summary of how I perceive it went down, just in case, noone wants to translate. Don't hold me accountable or anything but I will try to cover every bases.
- TSL wanting to rebuild
- FD and Trickster definitely not wanting to be part of the rebuild. TSL claims FD and Trickster were really a non team player (that's being generous) during the whole ordeal.
- TSL coach and some of the team members decided to withhold pay for both of them for about 30~45 days. (depends on which side you want to believe). And since TSL was in bad financial shape, they decided to use that money on team. (TSL was loaning money from Bank for living expense at that time)
- Also they might have lied to FD and Trickster that they were not getting the sponsor money during this period.
- FD and Trickster bring this matter to SC2 association.
- SC2 association tells FD and Trickster to act properly like a professional. and tells TSL to pay up. or Out
- however this decision came about without listening to TSL's side.
- SC2 association initially said there would be no appeal to this case but then they changed their minds.
- TSL decided to part ways with SC2 association anyways.
IMO, pretty amateurish conduct by everyone involved. Anyway, this is basically what's out so far. Maybe there is more to this story and someone else will pick it up from there.
AGREED. I think everyone needs to be able to put this into perspective. -__-
EPT
loved the TSL sign infront of fruitdealers name..
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