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The Official Live On Three Thread - Page 2

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
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Slasher
Profile Joined September 2007
United States1095 Posts
June 22 2011 23:12 GMT
#21
We are now LIVE
haffy
Profile Joined September 2010
United Kingdom430 Posts
June 22 2011 23:15 GMT
#22
On June 23 2011 08:05 TheSubtleArt wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 23 2011 07:58 haffy wrote:
On June 23 2011 07:46 alexhard wrote:
Idra admits to throwing games on purpose:



Is this acceptable? Should tournaments have rules against this?

There have been instances in FPS games for example where both teams are trying to lose the game, resulting in ridiculous situations...surely we want to avoid that?


It's up to the organiser to fix it in my opinion. It's happened in the world cup before, both teams needed a draw to get through, so they just passed the ball around for 90 minutes.

Not really a huge deal in my opinion. The NASL features hundreds of games, so 3 or 4 sets being thrown isn't that noticable. On top of that it's a free stream so I don't think fans are too entitled to complain that 4 of the 200+ games aren't competitive. It's not like a soccer game where fans purchase expensive tickets to watch a single game and support their team, and the team intentionaly throws the game.

It would be nice if the NASL was designed in a way that wouldn't make throwing games beneficial but again, it's not a big deal. Idra losing a series on purpose is definitely not something to create a shitstorm over.


I'm not saying NASL are bad or complaining how it's run. I'm just trying to say you can't expect a player or team to not fix a result in a way to benefit them if they know before hand.
Hardigan
Profile Joined June 2011
Switzerland1297 Posts
June 22 2011 23:16 GMT
#23
he would have fought much better opponents if Idra wouldn't have trow the games away and won and much weaker if he loses.... so why again shouldn't he trow the games away? it's jsut not an optimal brackets design from NASL
mholden02
Profile Joined October 2010
387 Posts
June 22 2011 23:25 GMT
#24
Not playing Bomber or MC does tarnish the win. Im sorry, thats reality. The reason Thorzain got MASSIVE PROPS from winning TL3 was WHO HE BEAT. He beat EVERYONE.

Its not Huk's fault, but he did not beat the two best players. Its a fact.
Mailing
Profile Joined March 2011
United States3087 Posts
June 22 2011 23:27 GMT
#25
On June 23 2011 07:46 alexhard wrote:
Idra admits to throwing games on purpose:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GThEM3dNRLQ&feature=player_detailpage#t=355s

Is this acceptable? Should tournaments have rules against this?

There have been instances in FPS games for example where both teams are trying to lose the game, resulting in ridiculous situations...surely we want to avoid that?


Make it so winners get to choose their own bracket spots, so people will want to try.

If you do not do so, I see no reason why a pro shouldn't throw games to get their favorable spots.
Are you hurting ESPORTS? Find out today - http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=232866
MechKing
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United States3004 Posts
June 22 2011 23:29 GMT
#26
Gz huk and everything, but you have to wonder what would've happened if he had to play MC or Bomber. He beat Bischu, Lalush, Tarson, Fury and Moon in groups. That is NOT that hard of a group compared to others. Then he played vs. Predy, Socke and July. and then met Moon again in the finals. He played only two koreans and the same one twice. He definitely had probably the easiest road to the finals definitely.
Seronei
Profile Joined January 2011
Sweden991 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-22 23:34:47
June 22 2011 23:30 GMT
#27
On June 23 2011 08:25 mholden02 wrote:
Not playing Bomber or MC does tarnish the win. Im sorry, thats reality. The reason Thorzain got MASSIVE PROPS from winning TL3 was WHO HE BEAT. He beat EVERYONE.

Its not Huk's fault, but he did not beat the two best players. Its a fact.

I don't think it's fair to say it tarnishes the win. But I do think it's fair to say that if Huk had beaten Bomber and Mc it would be worth more.

The reason that jetlag is a horrible excuse is because everyone knows it exist, and that they should travel up to a week in advance to avoid being jetlagged during the tournament if they want to be taken seriously.
Savern101
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United Kingdom859 Posts
June 22 2011 23:32 GMT
#28
On June 23 2011 08:29 MechKing wrote:
Gz huk and everything, but you have to wonder what would've happened if he had to play MC or Bomber. He beat Bischu, Lalush, Tarson, Fury and Moon in groups. That is NOT that hard of a group compared to others. Then he played vs. Predy, Socke and July. and then met Moon again in the finals. He played only two koreans and the same one twice. He definitely had probably the easiest road to the finals definitely.


Do people say that Nadal had an easy time because he had to beat Djockovic instead of Federer? Or that he only had to play Murray in the semi? This kind of thinking is ridiculous. MMA didn't have to play MC at MLG. Does it mean his win isn't as impressive? Don't try to take away a great win from Huk. He beat Moon twice(who was on really impressive form) and July! JULY! Moon beat Bomber, Huk beat Moon. Huk won, end of.
EG.DeMusliM/d.BlinG/UK Fighting!
Mailing
Profile Joined March 2011
United States3087 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-22 23:36:40
June 22 2011 23:33 GMT
#29
Beating bomber/MC/idra/Naniwa would have made Huks run 10x better

Congrats on his big win though

On June 23 2011 08:32 Savern101 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 23 2011 08:29 MechKing wrote:
Gz huk and everything, but you have to wonder what would've happened if he had to play MC or Bomber. He beat Bischu, Lalush, Tarson, Fury and Moon in groups. That is NOT that hard of a group compared to others. Then he played vs. Predy, Socke and July. and then met Moon again in the finals. He played only two koreans and the same one twice. He definitely had probably the easiest road to the finals definitely.


Do people say that Nadal had an easy time because he had to beat Djockovic instead of Federer? Or that he only had to play Murray in the semi? This kind of thinking is ridiculous. MMA didn't have to play MC at MLG. Does it mean his win isn't as impressive? Don't try to take away a great win from Huk. He beat Moon twice(who was on really impressive form) and July! JULY! Moon beat Bomber, Huk beat Moon. Huk won, end of.


Point?

Look at numerous GSL finals where players had easy brackets. Some players have made it to the top 4 of a GSL and are still considered mediocre because they just have sloppy games when you analyze them.

MVP has been out of the top of code S for a long time now and is still considered a much better player than Rain or even oGsTOP

huk played amazingly in Dreamhack but none of his opponents really played amazingly back to make the win impressive.
Are you hurting ESPORTS? Find out today - http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=232866
1Eris1
Profile Joined September 2010
United States5797 Posts
June 22 2011 23:33 GMT
#30
These three are amazing
Known Aliases: Tyragon, Valeric ~MSL Forever, SKT is truly the Superior KT!
Savern101
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United Kingdom859 Posts
June 22 2011 23:38 GMT
#31
On June 23 2011 08:33 Mailing wrote:
Beating bomber/MC/idra/Naniwa would have made Huks run 10x better

Congrats on his big win though

Show nested quote +
On June 23 2011 08:32 Savern101 wrote:
On June 23 2011 08:29 MechKing wrote:
Gz huk and everything, but you have to wonder what would've happened if he had to play MC or Bomber. He beat Bischu, Lalush, Tarson, Fury and Moon in groups. That is NOT that hard of a group compared to others. Then he played vs. Predy, Socke and July. and then met Moon again in the finals. He played only two koreans and the same one twice. He definitely had probably the easiest road to the finals definitely.


Do people say that Nadal had an easy time because he had to beat Djockovic instead of Federer? Or that he only had to play Murray in the semi? This kind of thinking is ridiculous. MMA didn't have to play MC at MLG. Does it mean his win isn't as impressive? Don't try to take away a great win from Huk. He beat Moon twice(who was on really impressive form) and July! JULY! Moon beat Bomber, Huk beat Moon. Huk won, end of.


Point?

Look at numerous GSL finals where players had easy brackets. Some players have made it to the top 4 of a GSL and are still considered mediocre because they just have sloppy games when you analyze them.

MVP has been out of the top of code S for a long time now and is still considered a much better player than Rain or even oGsTOP

huk played amazingly in Dreamhack but none of his opponents really played amazingly back to make the win impressive.


Its just unfair to Huk. He won, what more do you want from him? He can only play against whats in front of him, its not his fault if others fall/can't handle the pressure/whatever.

According to TLO he trains as hard if not harder than the Koreans, and thats clearly paid off.

And I really didn't use to be a Huk fan, he's just impressed me since managing to stay in Code S.
EG.DeMusliM/d.BlinG/UK Fighting!
Bear4188
Profile Joined March 2010
United States1797 Posts
June 22 2011 23:39 GMT
#32
Sorry Slasher, Kennigit doesn't love you http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=236363
"I learned very early the difference between knowing the name of something and knowing something." - R. Feynman
clickrush
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Switzerland3257 Posts
June 22 2011 23:40 GMT
#33
HATE YOU HUK

oGsMC: Zealot defense, Stalker attack, Sentry forcefieldu forcefieldu, Marauder die die
Mailing
Profile Joined March 2011
United States3087 Posts
June 22 2011 23:42 GMT
#34
On June 23 2011 08:38 Savern101 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 23 2011 08:33 Mailing wrote:
Beating bomber/MC/idra/Naniwa would have made Huks run 10x better

Congrats on his big win though

On June 23 2011 08:32 Savern101 wrote:
On June 23 2011 08:29 MechKing wrote:
Gz huk and everything, but you have to wonder what would've happened if he had to play MC or Bomber. He beat Bischu, Lalush, Tarson, Fury and Moon in groups. That is NOT that hard of a group compared to others. Then he played vs. Predy, Socke and July. and then met Moon again in the finals. He played only two koreans and the same one twice. He definitely had probably the easiest road to the finals definitely.


Do people say that Nadal had an easy time because he had to beat Djockovic instead of Federer? Or that he only had to play Murray in the semi? This kind of thinking is ridiculous. MMA didn't have to play MC at MLG. Does it mean his win isn't as impressive? Don't try to take away a great win from Huk. He beat Moon twice(who was on really impressive form) and July! JULY! Moon beat Bomber, Huk beat Moon. Huk won, end of.


Point?

Look at numerous GSL finals where players had easy brackets. Some players have made it to the top 4 of a GSL and are still considered mediocre because they just have sloppy games when you analyze them.

MVP has been out of the top of code S for a long time now and is still considered a much better player than Rain or even oGsTOP

huk played amazingly in Dreamhack but none of his opponents really played amazingly back to make the win impressive.


Its just unfair to Huk. He won, what more do you want from him? He can only play against whats in front of him, its not his fault if others fall/can't handle the pressure/whatever.

According to TLO he trains as hard if not harder than the Koreans, and thats clearly paid off.

And I really didn't use to be a Huk fan, he's just impressed me since managing to stay in Code S.


"What more do you want from him"...?

Nothing. He already has his 15000$ and title and fame. Nobody can take that from him or wants to.

I am just saying it's stupid to use this example as a "white people > koreans" now or something like numerous people are attempting to do because Moon and july (both who have extremely low VsP results) lost to him.
Are you hurting ESPORTS? Find out today - http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=232866
jmbthirteen
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States10734 Posts
June 22 2011 23:43 GMT
#35
I think Tyler would make an incredible pro coach.
www.superbeerbrothers.com
Savern101
Profile Blog Joined March 2011
United Kingdom859 Posts
June 22 2011 23:45 GMT
#36
On June 23 2011 08:42 Mailing wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 23 2011 08:38 Savern101 wrote:
On June 23 2011 08:33 Mailing wrote:
Beating bomber/MC/idra/Naniwa would have made Huks run 10x better

Congrats on his big win though

On June 23 2011 08:32 Savern101 wrote:
On June 23 2011 08:29 MechKing wrote:
Gz huk and everything, but you have to wonder what would've happened if he had to play MC or Bomber. He beat Bischu, Lalush, Tarson, Fury and Moon in groups. That is NOT that hard of a group compared to others. Then he played vs. Predy, Socke and July. and then met Moon again in the finals. He played only two koreans and the same one twice. He definitely had probably the easiest road to the finals definitely.


Do people say that Nadal had an easy time because he had to beat Djockovic instead of Federer? Or that he only had to play Murray in the semi? This kind of thinking is ridiculous. MMA didn't have to play MC at MLG. Does it mean his win isn't as impressive? Don't try to take away a great win from Huk. He beat Moon twice(who was on really impressive form) and July! JULY! Moon beat Bomber, Huk beat Moon. Huk won, end of.


Point?

Look at numerous GSL finals where players had easy brackets. Some players have made it to the top 4 of a GSL and are still considered mediocre because they just have sloppy games when you analyze them.

MVP has been out of the top of code S for a long time now and is still considered a much better player than Rain or even oGsTOP

huk played amazingly in Dreamhack but none of his opponents really played amazingly back to make the win impressive.


Its just unfair to Huk. He won, what more do you want from him? He can only play against whats in front of him, its not his fault if others fall/can't handle the pressure/whatever.

According to TLO he trains as hard if not harder than the Koreans, and thats clearly paid off.

And I really didn't use to be a Huk fan, he's just impressed me since managing to stay in Code S.


"What more do you want from him"...?

Nothing. He already has his 15000$ and title and fame. Nobody can take that from him or wants to.

I am just saying it's stupid to use this example as a "white people > koreans" now or something like numerous people are attempting to do because Moon and july (both who have extremely low VsP results) lost to him.


I never claimed it meant that Foreigners are better than koreans. They're not (in general). I do think it shows that foreign players can compete however. People like Thorzain and Nani can look at the hard work that Huk has put in (and it has taken him a long time in Korea), and it will encourage them. The more foreigners compete with koreans and are competitive (even if not winnning) then its going to improve the quality of SC2 overall, which means more awesome games for us.
EG.DeMusliM/d.BlinG/UK Fighting!
mholden02
Profile Joined October 2010
387 Posts
June 22 2011 23:49 GMT
#37
I don't understand why saying "Huk didn't beat the best players" is a slight against Huk personally. Its not.

Polt Prime just won SuperLeague, and nobody is all that enthused about it. He didn't beat MC, or MVP, or Bomber, or Nestea. So yeah he won, but we as fans expect you to beat the best to win championships. Polt didn't and Huk didn't.

Thats reality. Who you beat matters. Might not be fair, but life isn't fair.
lunchforthesky
Profile Joined June 2011
United Kingdom967 Posts
June 23 2011 00:06 GMT
#38
On June 23 2011 08:45 Savern101 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 23 2011 08:42 Mailing wrote:
On June 23 2011 08:38 Savern101 wrote:
On June 23 2011 08:33 Mailing wrote:
Beating bomber/MC/idra/Naniwa would have made Huks run 10x better

Congrats on his big win though

On June 23 2011 08:32 Savern101 wrote:
On June 23 2011 08:29 MechKing wrote:
Gz huk and everything, but you have to wonder what would've happened if he had to play MC or Bomber. He beat Bischu, Lalush, Tarson, Fury and Moon in groups. That is NOT that hard of a group compared to others. Then he played vs. Predy, Socke and July. and then met Moon again in the finals. He played only two koreans and the same one twice. He definitely had probably the easiest road to the finals definitely.


Do people say that Nadal had an easy time because he had to beat Djockovic instead of Federer? Or that he only had to play Murray in the semi? This kind of thinking is ridiculous. MMA didn't have to play MC at MLG. Does it mean his win isn't as impressive? Don't try to take away a great win from Huk. He beat Moon twice(who was on really impressive form) and July! JULY! Moon beat Bomber, Huk beat Moon. Huk won, end of.


Point?

Look at numerous GSL finals where players had easy brackets. Some players have made it to the top 4 of a GSL and are still considered mediocre because they just have sloppy games when you analyze them.

MVP has been out of the top of code S for a long time now and is still considered a much better player than Rain or even oGsTOP

huk played amazingly in Dreamhack but none of his opponents really played amazingly back to make the win impressive.


Its just unfair to Huk. He won, what more do you want from him? He can only play against whats in front of him, its not his fault if others fall/can't handle the pressure/whatever.

According to TLO he trains as hard if not harder than the Koreans, and thats clearly paid off.

And I really didn't use to be a Huk fan, he's just impressed me since managing to stay in Code S.


"What more do you want from him"...?

Nothing. He already has his 15000$ and title and fame. Nobody can take that from him or wants to.

I am just saying it's stupid to use this example as a "white people > koreans" now or something like numerous people are attempting to do because Moon and july (both who have extremely low VsP results) lost to him.


I never claimed it meant that Foreigners are better than koreans. They're not (in general). I do think it shows that foreign players can compete however. People like Thorzain and Nani can look at the hard work that Huk has put in (and it has taken him a long time in Korea), and it will encourage them. The more foreigners compete with koreans and are competitive (even if not winnning) then its going to improve the quality of SC2 overall, which means more awesome games for us.


Well it shows Thorzain and Naniwa that you can beat two Koreans and a load of foreigners. Huk played great and fully deserved his win and his $15k, but the depth of the competition at Dreamhack is still a long way short of GSL. When a foreigners wins Code S (or even Code A), that will be the real moment where you can say foreigners have made it.
lunchforthesky
Profile Joined June 2011
United Kingdom967 Posts
June 23 2011 00:09 GMT
#39
On June 23 2011 08:49 mholden02 wrote:
I don't understand why saying "Huk didn't beat the best players" is a slight against Huk personally. Its not.

Polt Prime just won SuperLeague, and nobody is all that enthused about it. He didn't beat MC, or MVP, or Bomber, or Nestea. So yeah he won, but we as fans expect you to beat the best to win championships. Polt didn't and Huk didn't.

Thats reality. Who you beat matters. Might not be fair, but life isn't fair.


Well let's be fair to Polt. Yeah he didn't beat the big three but he did beat:
Losira
MMA
Maka
Alicia
Huk
TOP

that's an infinitely harder bracket than:
Moon
Tarson
Lalush
Fury
Bisu
July
Predy
Socke.

It's not even comparable.
1Eris1
Profile Joined September 2010
United States5797 Posts
June 23 2011 00:16 GMT
#40
On June 23 2011 09:09 lunchforthesky wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 23 2011 08:49 mholden02 wrote:
I don't understand why saying "Huk didn't beat the best players" is a slight against Huk personally. Its not.

Polt Prime just won SuperLeague, and nobody is all that enthused about it. He didn't beat MC, or MVP, or Bomber, or Nestea. So yeah he won, but we as fans expect you to beat the best to win championships. Polt didn't and Huk didn't.

Thats reality. Who you beat matters. Might not be fair, but life isn't fair.


Well let's be fair to Polt. Yeah he didn't beat the big three but he did beat:
Losira
MMA
Maka
Alicia
Huk
TOP

that's an infinitely harder bracket than:
Moon
Tarson
Lalush
Fury
Bisu
July
Predy
Socke.

It's not even comparable.



Bischu, not Bisu.
Known Aliases: Tyragon, Valeric ~MSL Forever, SKT is truly the Superior KT!
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