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Season 3 Ladder Pool Updates - Page 12

Forum Index > SC2 General
1410 CommentsPost a Reply
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Tschis
Profile Joined November 2010
Brazil1511 Posts
June 20 2011 18:23 GMT
#221
seems like blizzard try hard to make the games last little
"A coward is not someone that runs from a battle knowing he will lose. A coward is someone who challenges a weak knowing he will win."
MoreFaSho
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1427 Posts
June 20 2011 18:25 GMT
#222
I'm far more concerned about the maps they're taking out than the maps they're adding with these honestly. Can any of these replace Xel'Naga Caverns? I doubt it. I think scrap obviously needs to go and one could make a case for XNC, but only if it's replaced with a really good map. I'm a little upset that there's a 6 player 2v2 map, but no 3-player 1v1 map in the pool. iCCup Testbug is an awesome map, so is Neo Enigma.
I always try to shield slam face, just to make sure it doesnt work
Archvil3
Profile Joined September 2010
Denmark989 Posts
June 20 2011 18:25 GMT
#223
I still dont understand why Blizzard insist on paying their own mapmakers to make these maps when the community is making so many awesome maps for free.

The quality difference between the community maps made for the GSL and Map of the Month tournament here on TL compared to the Blizzard maps is staggering.

Surely any respectable tournament is staying far away from the ladder maps but still annoying you have to play them on the ladder.

A closer look at the maps..

Map 1
Horrible rotation symetri. The art of making a rotational symetri map is to design it so that when you spawn 5 vs 7 o'clock you have a somewhat even expansion flow and even features. On this map 5 has a huge advantage over 7 due to the nicely positioned 3rd at 2 o'clock while 7 has to take a badly connected 3rd at 9 o'clock. Besides the fact that some positions are hugely imbalanced the map looks decent.

Map 2
Pretty good expansion flow and features, looking pretty balanced in all positions. Biggest negative I see is the awkward ramp from main to natural. It's a repeat mistake from maps such as backwater gulch where they ended up changing it. Would be nice if Blizzard didnt keep repeating past mistakes on their maps. I worry a bit about rush distances in all positions as well but it's hard to tell as I dont know the size of the map but with the awkward ramp making a fast expansion hard to defend it is probally too short of a rush.

Map 3
Horizontal spawns are pretty bad here because of the flow to the third base. Vertical and cross spawns looks quite good.

Map 4
Very nice expansion flow, playable in all positions. Gold bases useless, they should really stop putting the gold bases in the middle like that. I am worried about blink/warp in's from 3rd to main but if it's the case it should be easy to fix.
Let thy speech be better than silence, or be silent.
OrchidThief
Profile Joined April 2011
Denmark2298 Posts
June 20 2011 18:26 GMT
#224
Rotational symmertry is mostly aweful. Unless you spawn cross, one of the players is mostly screwed, either by air distance or because the natural expansion is right by the other persons ramp. Just terrible design.
zawk9
Profile Joined March 2011
United States427 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-06-20 18:29:39
June 20 2011 18:26 GMT
#225
On June 21 2011 03:18 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
Show nested quote +
On June 21 2011 03:15 zawk9 wrote:
On June 21 2011 03:11 Yoshi Kirishima wrote:
The complaint against close positions is that it's anti zerg. Your points about solid chokes also make walling off against zerg easier.

It's not that what you've said is wrong, it just makes things worse, not better.


No, it's not anti-zerg, it's anti-defensive-lategame-zerg.

The smaller naturals help too, for defensive zergs. For example, Hellions aren't nearly as good.


In TvZ..

These maps are pretty universally awful for ZvP.


The third map also takes into account the ZvP matchup;

on horizontal positions, it will be hard for either player to get a third, but harder for Protoss. Zergs can take a far away third on the other side of the map or take the Gold in the center.

On Cross and Vertical positions, you can easily split the map, and as Zerg take slightly more than half.

Edit:

On the third map, I think the middle should be slightly more opened, AKA make the "slit" in the ground a little smaller or just get rid of it...


Strategically speaking the harder third is definitly better for Zerg. Protoss probably can Forge FE pretty easily though so its a somewhat two-sided coin.

Tactically speaking the map is full of chokes and has no real open areas to engage. I can already see myself Roach/Ling all-inning every other game on it to try and keep Protoss from getting the three base death ball -> auto-winning.

A split map situation on a map with no open areas is bad in ZvP... In contrast to ZvT where you kind of say "lol" after getting your third up.
there's a bug in the new patch where the other player keeps killing all my dudes.. please nerf this
YunhOLee
Profile Blog Joined April 2005
Canada2470 Posts
June 20 2011 18:26 GMT
#226
the team maps look decent, especially the 2v2 and the 1st 3v3 one, however i dont have as much faith into the 1v1 maps T_T
Live it, love it, play it, kill it. JulyZerg and IPXZerg greatest TL.net fan
Euronyme
Profile Joined August 2010
Sweden3804 Posts
June 20 2011 18:27 GMT
#227
On June 21 2011 03:21 Joseph123 wrote:
I dont get why they dont add 2 players maps and make so similar maps


Because during SC2s history people have been complaining about there being too many 2 player maps. Jungle basin, steppes of war, etc.The best map was always considered metalopolis - a 4 player map.
They're just responding to feedback, and gold bases and rocks around every corner is just blizzards water stamp.
I bet i can maı̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̸̨̨̨̨̨̨ke you wipe your screen.
Chronald
Profile Joined December 2009
United States619 Posts
June 20 2011 18:27 GMT
#228
These maps look like total shit.

Why don't they use the GSL maps? I don't understand.

Test4 looks like a pile of steaming shit, how do you call a map 'Macro' when you can only defend 2 bases easily?

Test3 (Shifted Sky) looks like a shitty version of Bel'Shir that won't be as fun to watch/play since the map is ugly, and the terrain blows my nuts.

Test2 (Kerrigan's) looks completely retarded to me. First off - drops will be huge and prolly imba on thsi map. Look at the corners of the base. You can seige tanks on those ledges.... The nat is asking to get raped in the asshole, and there really isn't a viable third at any spawn.

Test1 looks like everyone will be 1basing, since the natural is going to be nearly impossible to defend against any early rush.

What does Blizzard have against 3 base play? I don't understand why they insist on making this piece of trash maps that everyone hates. The GSL uses maps that everyone loves, and 90% of other tournaments use the GSL maps, not the Blizzard ones.

I don't get it. Blizzard/Activision needs to stop being spotlight whores and fire their map team. Hire JackyPrime and LS_Prime and all of a sudden you have awesome maps for ladder.

Fuck man, I can't believe Blizzard would make these terrible maps... Oh wait, yes I can.

IMO - Blizzard should give up now so that we the community can fix all their fuck ups.
Got that.
Amui
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Canada10567 Posts
June 20 2011 18:28 GMT
#229
First map looks like steppes of war in all but cross positions, and has about the same number of accessible expos per player @_@.

Kerrigan's wrath has way too many rocks IMO.

Shifted Sky Looks like it has a choke that you can forge FE on vs zerg! I'm a bit worried though because the third is somewhat far away from both the main and the nat.

I am SO glad blizzard figured out how to make 2v2 maps. Shared bases means a protoss partner isn't a liability, and a readily accessible third makes z not a purely map control race. 3 player map is going to be interesting though.

Porouscloud - NA LoL
GenesisX
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Canada4267 Posts
June 20 2011 18:29 GMT
#230
Test 1/2/3 are all terrible. So close rush distances... Test 4 is a slight bit better than the rest, but still bad. BLIZZARD PLEASE USE GSL / MLG MAPS.
133 221 333 123 111
RyanRushia
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States2748 Posts
June 20 2011 18:29 GMT
#231
wow 4 new maps? sickkkkkkk any change is good change!
I saw the angel in the marble and carved until I set him free. | coL.Ryan | www.twitter.com/coL_RyanR
pHelix Equilibria
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1134 Posts
June 20 2011 18:29 GMT
#232
I like that 4th Map should call it Scrap City.
I thought ladder seasons were about like 9 months?
ScaSully
Profile Joined April 2011
United States488 Posts
June 20 2011 18:30 GMT
#233
when is 3rd season beggining cause they should put maps in now b4 hots starts
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Golgotha
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
Korea (South)8418 Posts
June 20 2011 18:31 GMT
#234
I feel like GSL mapmakers or ICCUP mapmakers bring out a more quality map than Blizzard. But Blizzard doesn't care and just keeps using their own maps. ugh. oh well I will try them out and see how they are like.
Deltablazy
Profile Joined November 2010
Canada580 Posts
June 20 2011 18:31 GMT
#235
But but but Season 2 just started D=

Map 1 gives me a DQ nostalgia. Siege tanks from gold base, anyone? Watch towers are too close to nats and each other.

Map 2 looks good, but I see it as BWG in lava.

Map 3 is very nice. Although close air might make some people think it's Scrap station all over again. Banshees will reign supreme.

Map 4 is indeed nice for macro, but I think siege tanks at 3rd can cause a nightmare for your main.

eloist
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1017 Posts
June 20 2011 18:32 GMT
#236
Guys, this is for the upcoming season three. Why would they put in ancient old maps from early GSL rounds into the ladder pool now, that makes no sense from Blizzards perspective. This is their contribution to keep the game fresh and I really appreciate it.

Some maps like backwater gulch last season for instance introduced some interesting concepts that haven't been explored in any of the user made maps and I enjoyed playing on them a lot.

For as great as this community considers itself, it doesn't seem like that players give these a fair shot. Bel'Shir beach was posted and everyone loved it purely because of its visuals. It's actually not a particularly interesting map. Yet, it was immediately put into tournament rotation with little to no testing and no one objected. I don't get it.

Blackk
Profile Joined November 2010
South Africa226 Posts
June 20 2011 18:32 GMT
#237
Even if these arent the best maps, if they were to replace slag pits, delta quadrant and scrap station they are automatically good... have you noticed the fact that they are still called test?
hah.
Mailing
Profile Joined March 2011
United States3087 Posts
June 20 2011 18:32 GMT
#238
Oh god... so many cliffs....

I can just see hundreds of potential places terrans are going to sit siege tanks n__n
Are you hurting ESPORTS? Find out today - http://www.teamliquid.net/blogs/viewblog.php?topic_id=232866
awu25
Profile Joined April 2010
United States2003 Posts
June 20 2011 18:33 GMT
#239
On June 21 2011 03:30 Drazzyo wrote:
when is 3rd season beggining cause they should put maps in now b4 hots starts

You know HoTS is still like over a year away right?
Sakkreth
Profile Joined February 2011
Lithuania1096 Posts
June 20 2011 18:33 GMT
#240
First map encourages 2 base plays, because getting third will be quite hard, not many people like this.
Second map is just simply terrible, it will be new Steppes of War except that it has 4 spawning positions which will make even harder to defend cheese if u don't scout ur opponent at first location.
Third would be good map if there would be no close position by ground possible.
Well I like fourth 1v1 map, even though your third can be harrased heavily by air.

My suggestion would be replace second map with GSL Crevasse and do not allow close by ground spawns on third map.
WhiteRa, NaNiWa, Creator, sOs, Krr, ForGG, MMA, Zest ||
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