People compare SC2 and chess all the time. Why don't we go a little further? If we were to make a Starcraft II themed chess set, what units do you think would be what pieces? Please explain why, too. I'll start.
Knight- Stalker. Special mobility lets it do tricky things and get into hard to reach places.
Bishop- Void Ray. Mobile and dangerous from the get go. Can be a threat used relatively early.
Rook- High Templar. Power unit that is mobile and dangerous once finally on the field.
Queen- Colossus. Monster with mobility and range.
King- Mothership. THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE.
(My apologies in advance. I couldn't find a thread quite like this, so I thought it would be okay. Sorry if there was another. Also, I only have a cursory knowledge of chess.)
brood LORD should be king imo.. then queen as queen o: although i get your description. but their movement speeds are justifiable for the new posts im bringing in :D
I feel like the Phoenix would play a better role as a Bishop than a Void Ray would...It's faster and packs that sting, rather than a Void Ray which seems better suited as a Rook.
On June 17 2011 02:53 Synystyr wrote: I feel like the Phoenix would play a better role as a Bishop than a Void Ray would...It's faster and packs that sting, rather than a Void Ray which seems better suited as a Rook.
Good idea with the phoenix. I've been spurned by phoenix harass enough to probably have known better. But I thought that a Protoss themed chess set would be remiss without HT's somewhere.
Interesting thread. I think the rooks should be ultras, siege tanks and immortals..i think that would be nicer maybe the king and queen can be hero units like Kerrigan, Raynor or Zeratul (that would be awesome) I would so buy one if Blizzard manufactures Starcraft chess boards!
On June 17 2011 02:58 gulshngill wrote: Interesting thread. I think the rooks should be ultras, siege tanks and immortals..i think that would be nicer maybe the king and queen can be hero units like Kerrigan, Raynor or Zeratul (that would be awesome) I would so buy one if Blizzard manufactures Starcraft chess boards!
I would probably buy one too, but I feel to really do it right, they'd need a red and blue version of all 3 races. Then you can enact all the match ups like on the ladder!
Heh nice post, but calling the High Templar 'mobile' is the craziest thing I have ever heard :D Their movement speed is 1.88, I hope Blizzard will increase this to 2.25 just like Zealots (and Ghosts...)
On June 17 2011 03:03 dani` wrote: Heh nice post, but calling the High Templar 'mobile' is the craziest thing I have ever heard :D Their movement speed is 1.88, I hope Blizzard will increase this to 2.25 just like Zealots (and Ghosts...)
Another stretch, yes. I think this time, I'll say Warp In is a factor somehow. Something like that, I guess.
Knight- Mutalisk. They just avoid all these obstacles and jump right into the fray. They'll harass you then just jump right back into safety, their presence alone limits your play.
Bishop- Roach. Their range of attack is limited but are extremely powerful given the right circumstances.
Rook- Ultralisk. You don't want to mess with these. Take one out and you'll have far better chances.
Queen- Queen. An extremely important unit and will put you far ahead if you snipe one. Also, Brood Lords aren't mobile, silly.
King- Overseer. Doesn't engage in battle but you need it in the late game.
Pawn- SCV. They are the foundation and they also have a second purpose in the late game.
Knight- Reaper. Agree.
Bishop- Hellion. I'll sneak in, do some damage then sneak back out. It's not a big loss if it's killed but it has the potential to wreak havoc, especially if the opponent doesn't see it coming.
Rook- Siege Tank. Long range support, beefy unit, pretty big investments. These protect your other units.
Queen- Banshee. Annoying, mobile and extremely powerful. Battlecruisers aren't mobile, silly.
Bishop- Dark Templar. You are willing to sack this unit for the greater good. Best application of this unit is to go in and snipe something valuable.
Rook- Void Ray. Set one up, prepare it and it becomes ridiculously powerful. The later the game is, the more useful this unit is.
Queen- Mothership. Can you kill her? If you can, you should be pretty far ahead. She protects any unit around her as long as the opponent doesn't have appropriate countermeasures in place.
King- Archon. Powerful, has limited capabilities and hard to kill.
On June 17 2011 03:08 youngminii wrote: For Zerg: + Show Spoiler +
Pawn- Zergling. Agree.
Knight- Mutalisk. They just avoid all these obstacles and jump right into the fray. They'll harass you then just jump right back into safety, their presence alone limits your play.
Bishop- Roach. Their range of attack is limited but are extremely powerful given the right circumstances.
Rook- Ultralisk. You don't want to mess with these. Take one out and you'll have far better chances.
Queen- Queen. An extremely important unit and will put you far ahead if you snipe one. Also, Brood Lords aren't mobile, silly.
King- Overseer. Doesn't engage in battle but you need it in the late game.
Pawn- SCV. They are the foundation and they also have a second purpose in the late game.
Knight- Reaper. Agree.
Bishop- Hellion. I'll sneak in, do some damage then sneak back out. It's not a big loss if it's killed but it has the potential to wreak havoc, especially if the opponent doesn't see it coming.
Rook- Siege Tank. Long range support, beefy unit, pretty big investments. These protect your other units.
Queen- Banshee. Annoying, mobile and extremely powerful. Battlecruisers aren't mobile, silly.
Bishop- Dark Templar. You are willing to sack this unit for the greater good. Best application of this unit is to go in and snipe something valuable.
Rook- Void Ray. Set one up, prepare it and it becomes ridiculously powerful. The later the game is, the more useful this unit is.
Queen- Mothership. Can you kill her? If you can, you should be pretty far ahead. She protects any unit around her as long as the opponent doesn't have appropriate countermeasures in place.
King- Archon. Powerful, has limited capabilities and hard to kill.
Oh, that's really nice. I like some of these a lot better than my own.
I would replace the viking with siege tanks for rook role. Vikings are not that useful agst ground units. And since most toss nowadays refrain from collossus rushing, the viking today is more used for spotting and for sniping errant units such as the single medivac, the reinforcing colloss, random ovies, etc.
Pawn: Bitbybitttttttt! Knight: reaper, it hops Bishop: Ghost, is mobile, sneaky but is bad in fight. Rook: tank, castling protects the king. Queen: Tychus, it's about time. King: planetary fortress. Can barely move, but anything that gets close dies instantly. Planetaries cannot kill planetaries without dying first, just like a king can't capture a king without dying first.
On June 17 2011 03:59 KillerPlague wrote: after reading if WWI and WWII were a bar fight this just doesn't seem as entertaining as it could have been :/
Fine. Let's take it up a notch.
SlayersChess
King: Boxer Don't question this.
Queen: Alicia When you need something done right, send this guy out.
Rook: MMA The guy you bring out last to get the checkmate
Knight: Ganzi The guy you send out to do the dirty work
Bishop: Ryung The Sniper
Pawn: Min Because Boxer realized that he had 3 Terrans and a toss alone.
p@wns are SCVs for terran obv, lol. They charge to the front, have melee , while the other pieces do their work.
Queens are banshees tbh, mobile and all. Kings are more like Ravens? lol. THeyre super slow and have terribad attack capabilities, but a very important "piece" in the army Tanks are more analogous to Rooks cos they have "long" range, and cant attack pawns in certain "melee" situations.
On June 17 2011 03:02 Sinborn wrote: SC2 Chess custom map needs to be made!
A chess where you can micro battle would be funny
Anyone remember that chess game for the N64? Whenever you'd capture a piece, it would play a little animation to illustrate it. For example, if a knight took a bishop, you would see something like a CGI guy in armor slashing a guy in a friar's robe.
If someone were to make a custom map out of this, I would love it if after a capture, the camera would move to an arena part of the map, where you can watch 2 computer representatives of the units duke it out quickly. Then hilarity will ensue when a zealot somehow takes out a Brood Lord.
(Why not zergling or marine for pawn ? Well, chess is not a best game of sheer numbers and wins just by overwhelming your opponent. Pawns is more of a tanking damage and positional control + marine is too "universal" in terms of game (sc2) abilities to be a pawn) Best impersonation in game - definitely Zealot.
Knight: Zerg - (unfortunately I don't think zerg have a good knight impersonation in chess ) Protoss - Blink Stalker Terran - Reaper
(While reaper and blink stalker are really fit to be knight in chess, zergs really miss their own"knight". May be a roach with burrow would be great, but it was assigned to be a pawn already.) Best impersonation in game - Blink Stalker.
(Bishop, mobile unit with limited capabilities. Both viking and corruptor fits well in this category, while fenix not really looking great. But at least fenix is aggressively mobile unit in game, so let it be a bishop in chess) Best impersonation in game - Viking.
(Very important chess piece to control space in game, both used offensively and in defense. But not the universal piece on the board.) Best impersonation in game - Siege Tank.
(Queen likely to be in SC2 an extremely mobile and universal unit (should hit ground and air). Sorry for the original Zerg "queen", but the chess queen in SC2 would be Mutalisk. It moves fast, hits hard and retreats in a blink of an eye. Void Ray and Banshee unfortunately not as fast, but they are closest what other races have in their arsenal to fill a queen role in chess. Best impersonation in game - without a doubt Mutalisk.
(Thor as impersonation of terran power unit in game gets "King" role without any hesitation. Archon probably a second best variant of "King" in game +low attack range makes him look really like "King" piece in chess. The zerg queen was nominated on this role, but didn't get through casting stage despite that she is really physically looks and behaves in game like king in chess. Lets say honestly, to be a king on the chess board you need to be at least a power unit in game. The only thing that zerg has left is Ultralisk. So let it be King for zerg. Best impersonation in game - Thor. Archon looks very good, but Thor just a cooler unit to be a King piece in chess.
Honestly, mutalisk fits the zerg knight better. Knights can "fly" over defenses, are very mobile and as a chess player who goes to tournaments and plays competitively can be used to "harass" in a sense.
Queen should be Queen, and King should be Broodlord.
That is the setup that they use in most Poker-Defense maps, at least. Back in BW, I think some of the Poker D maps that I frequented used Queens and Guardians as Queens and Kings respectively. I suppose that this can carry through to SC2 unit compositions.
Zerg Queen: maybe Infestor, maybe Ultralisk, maybe wait for a new unit in HotS (Defiler return?) Protoss King: maybe High Templar (just because of the look), maybe Archon Terran King: maybe Ghost, maybe Thor
I feel like something worth considering is which units would best represent the race as well. If we were looking at this as a piece of Starcraft 2 merchandise, some units are such trademarks of the race that they ought to be included.
Example: Marines are an iconic Terran unit. It wouldn't really feel like a Terran set if they weren't in there somewhere.
I really like the thought behind some of the unit choices Equalize[R] made, though I'm not sure I agree with all of the actual selections. I'd like to continue in similar fashion with my own thoughts:
Pawn: I really like the idea behind the selections here, and pretty much agree with all points made. Smiply because of roach/marauder range, they do not work as well as zealot for pawn.
Knight: I think that just simply looking at this in terms of "tricksy movement" doesn't quite capture the full essence of the piece. A knight is more than just the unit that moves in funky ways, a knight is often a piece of sacrifice for a greater advantage. It is also a piece that allows you to backstab and make your opponent make tough decisions (threatening two priority targets at once). It is true that both the reaper and stalker can fit this role, but the stalker in a sense, if also much beefier a unit than a knight is in chess. I think between the two, a reaper is a much better impersonator, although, perhaps maybe a bit weaker than a knight in its respective game. I think that hellions could also fit this role, because they are more on par with the power of the knight, even if they lack being as tricksy movement-wise. Really, any "harassment" unit would fit this slot rather well (DT, Banshee, HT drop, etc.). Now as for zerg, I think that the infestor would fit this role rather well since it can burrow-move and since it has the potential for some nasty harrassment (with fungal/infested terrans). Also it is often sacrificed in battle (NP colossus/thor) to make an opponent make a decision. I don't necessarily have a favorite here, and I'll explain why at the end.
Bishop: I mostly agree with this and the selections, but I think I would place phoenix higher than corruptors, and might even swap out corruptors for mutalisks altogether given that corruptors are only a threat if you have any arial units (or colossus) to begin with. A mass of mutas/vikings/phoenix (in that order) could potentially end the game, though it is not easy to do so with just those units. This is much like the way you can force a checkmate with only bishops and a king, though much more slowly than with rooks.
Queen: I'm skipping to queen before rook because I think we need to address this first. I do not agree with the direction on this one. The queen is the most high priority target in the game, aside from the king. It is the most powerful and devistating piece and is often the piece to end the game. Therefore, I think the units that most reflect this are the power units: tank, thor, colossus, immortal, archon, ultralisk, broodlord. Some of these I think are more rook-like, but it is a hard call I think to say which one is which. If I had to separate them out though I'd say thor/colossus/archon/ultralisk are more queen-like (stronger/more versitile/more priority), and tank/immortal/broodlord are more rook-like in that...
Rook: I think rooks have a bit of a defensive element about them that tank/immortal/broodlord have. Given high ground tanks/broodlord really shine, and immortals just have defense built in. If you want to protect your base, these units can do it for you, much like a king castling. The reason I don't pick sentry, is the fact that unless you playing against a pro, sentries do not have the "checkmate" power that tank/immortal/broodlord have. Even though there is a defensive element to them, they pack quite a punch when they are finally out having their way with the king.
King: I think this is the one I most disagree with all around (that is, with everyone's assessment, not just with Equalize[R]) with one exception. I think I most agree with OP about he zerg queen being king since it is a unit that is fundamental to the zerg army, and if taken out could often spell gg. But, even this I don't think is the best unit to describe this chess piece. I think the most obvious answer, and I'm a little surprised someone like Idra or Morrow hasn't slammed their fists down on this one (even though this is sort of a silly topic for progamers to care about) is the Worker: SCV, Probe, and Drone. These are the backbone of the army. You start and end with these. Of course, you don't actually lose unless all your buildings are destroyed, so in a sense buildings are your king, but if you lose all your scv's, unless you have some sort of base trade going, you lose. You need these guys. Sure you have many of them, but they are really all one economic unit. Your econ is your king. Keep it alive, and you still have a chance. Don't and it's checkmate. Also, if you want to draw more similarities, they have short attack range, are not very good at picking off army units (though they can and will from time to time if stuff gets too close). And they are often used to assist in a checkmate (like breaking a siege line, although, this is a little bit reverse of how it works in chess you don't actually suicide the king so much as use it for the assist in endgame scenarios).
Now, the reason I didn't pick a favorite unit for the knight or for the Protoss queen is that in a way, piece in chess I think are more analogous to "motions of the game" like knights being harassment, and the king being econ, rather than specific units corresponding to the pieces. Some units do seem to correspond nicely, but others I think are more nebuolous and harder to pin down or at least come up with a "favorite" for. Little of this really matters to the game, but it was a fun thing to think about.
Pawn: Baneling. Oftentimes sacrificed for the greater good, but can sometimes win a game outright.
Rook: Ultralisk. The bulldozer. Anyone standing in its way better watch the fuck out, cause it's coming straight for them.
Knight: Infestor. Difficult to use, but sometimes the most rewarding unit. Those who can make the best use of them seem to be inexplicably unstoppable.
Bishop: Mutalisk. High mobility, and a great piece for beginners and veterans alike. Slips between other units and can easily be retreated.
Queen: Queen. The most important unit after the drone. Without your queens, you virtually have no army, no power. Has a variety of uses and is important at all times of the game.
King: Drone. The most valuable unit. Lose these guys and it's gg.
Fun idea, OP! I had fun coming up with these.
+ It's very interesting how choices differ when people think of taking chess pieces and finding their SC2 equivalents, versus taking SC2 units and finding a chess piece that resembles them.
On August 30 2011 04:11 garlicface wrote: + It's very interesting how choices differ when people think of taking chess pieces and finding their SC2 equivalents, versus taking SC2 units and finding a chess piece that resembles them.
Interesting indeed. I'll do that exercise:
Rook: Colosus (cuz is the closer to a tower but it looks awful >.< )
Knight: It can be any flying unit nowadays.
Bishop: High Templar is the most close thing to a bishop in the game I think. For the Religious thing.
Queen: Kerrigan.
King. Arcturus Mengsk.
Pawn: Marine, zerling and zealot for sure. (Cannon meat anyone?)
EPT
