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On June 14 2011 11:13 tadL wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2011 08:01 coL.drewbie wrote:
Yes, I agree that he is the best NA Protoss and I am the biggest fan of his play and I think he is one of the smartest players out there. The problem is that KiWi already has money from poker and he doesn't need to treat the game as a business, he doesn't need to spend his time getting his name out there and marketing himself or streaming or anything. These things are really important to a big team that is going to spend a lot of money to have him play for them, and they are going to want him to make videos and do blogs and interviews and stream. I always thought that a team wants in first place results. That their players get always top placements and so ofc a lot of invites to tournaments and ofc to stand there as a Top3 to represent their team and ofc their sponsors. Did this change? Is it now totaly ok to not reach any Top6 but have a stream with a lot of viewers? And i also thought players get their names out with results. Did this also change? Is the entertaining factor now more important then player results what in the end means...mhh skill? Anyway gz to you getting to coL. As a european i have to say that col is one of the two american teams that had once a big name and dominated a szene. the other was made in brazil, if sb is asking now. So gl and i hope you can reach with col a dominant position like they had once in cs. jason lake still masterhead of col?
I don't want to speak for Drewbie, but I don't think that's what he's saying. It's a balancing act, sponsors want you to represent their product, that includes being approachable, marketable and fairly known. This comes through streaming, interviews an the like. You still need results, but results alone won't get you sponsors, you also need to be marketable and put yourself out there.
If results alone were enough to net heavy sponsorship, then ROOT would have been rolling in sponsorship deals as they were pretty much the most successful team in North America, but the managerial, self-marketing etc. aspect of it is pretty important and often times, teams have a number of very experienced people dedicated to that side(see SirScoots, ODEE etc).
There was clearly a lot of work being put in behind all the success of ROOT to attempt to secure financial backing, but I imagine it was incredibly disheartening to see your team performing better than any other team in North America, and still securing less than a tenth of the financial backing of other teams. I don't really blame them for eventually caving and choosing a more stable option to support themselves.
I would also point out that the effort put into the forums for you guys was a little bit on-and-off for everyone, not just Kiwi or Slush.
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Good decision on ROOT's part. Though they were one of the teams with the largest fanbase, I can see how the lack of actual team infrastructure leading to the players themselves having to do managerial work would lead to worse play overall. Hopefully this leads to someone applying liberal amounts of discipline to CatZ to get him to clean up his macro even further... man, CatZ ingenuity combined with (for lack of a better reference) IdrA mechanics... so sexy.
Steven Bonnell the Second is hopeless, though. Even when he uses CatZ strategies (all the time) he still loses.
Because he's bad.
( <3 Destiny )
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No disrespect to Destiny. I do not think he is much of a team player, more like an entertaining streamer.
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@Mordiford , i understand their switch completly. nothing against it at all and i understand your point totaly. its frustrating having a great team - showing results and other teams get more and more sponsors. ofc this is not fair and ofc there is always this point for sponsors to take a team with for example intel and sponsor them then a team without big companys that have shown their trust to another organisation.
but i am still wondering about us szene, it seems that it is much more important to have fans and a name then really shwoing results. something i cant understand in my head.
but to be honest, producplacement is always strange and ofc difficult in esport. the playerprofiles are changing with every sponsor so fast. for example, i have players i follow and i realy like. but i am not so blind to take his profile and see "hey he plays with the razor blabla mouse" well i will buy it too. cause if they get sponsored by stealseries their profiles will be changed instantly. and in the end, you always see players who play with an totaly other mouse then they their profile says they use.
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No disrespect to Destiny. I do not think he is much of a team player, more like an entertaining streamer.
So... you just like pulling that out of your ass or do you have something to back it up?
I don't see why he isn't a "team player" just because he does some streaming. I don't see why he'd have been a part of root and seeming to do fine if he wasn't, he'd have had no reason to join in the first place if that were the case.
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i'm gonna miss ROOT as a group and their wittiness haha they definitely knew how to draw support from their fans and help out the SC2 community as a whole.
but i'm more than a fan of ROOT, i'm a fan of the individual players of ROOT, so i'll support compLexity for now, till the ROOT players get proper sponsoring and remake the best SC2 team ever  i'll be curious to see where kiwi and slush decide to go
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On June 14 2011 11:49 FLuE wrote:Show nested quote +No disrespect to Destiny. I do not think he is much of a team player, more like an entertaining streamer. So... you just like pulling that out of your ass or do you have something to back it up? I don't see why he isn't a "team player" just because he does some streaming. I don't see why he'd have been a part of root and seeming to do fine if he wasn't, he'd have had no reason to join in the first place if that were the case.
That's just my opinion my friend. He is a great player with some pretty decent skills. Just the lack of real results vs the extreme success of his stream leads me to believe that he is more of an entertainer than a real hardcore pro gamer. He can support himself off solely through his stream too!
How many clan wars have u seen destiny in? 
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On June 14 2011 11:53 EricCartman wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2011 11:49 FLuE wrote:No disrespect to Destiny. I do not think he is much of a team player, more like an entertaining streamer. So... you just like pulling that out of your ass or do you have something to back it up? I don't see why he isn't a "team player" just because he does some streaming. I don't see why he'd have been a part of root and seeming to do fine if he wasn't, he'd have had no reason to join in the first place if that were the case. That's just my opinion my friend. He is a great player with some pretty decent skills. Just the lack of real results vs the extreme success of his stream leads me to believe that he is more of an entertainer than a real hardcore pro gamer. He can support himself off solely through his stream too! How many clan wars have u seen destiny in?
He recently took a game off Naniwa in the EG Masters cup if that counts, and that was the first clan war he participated in.
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On June 14 2011 11:57 Karthane wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2011 11:53 EricCartman wrote:On June 14 2011 11:49 FLuE wrote:No disrespect to Destiny. I do not think he is much of a team player, more like an entertaining streamer. So... you just like pulling that out of your ass or do you have something to back it up? I don't see why he isn't a "team player" just because he does some streaming. I don't see why he'd have been a part of root and seeming to do fine if he wasn't, he'd have had no reason to join in the first place if that were the case. That's just my opinion my friend. He is a great player with some pretty decent skills. Just the lack of real results vs the extreme success of his stream leads me to believe that he is more of an entertainer than a real hardcore pro gamer. He can support himself off solely through his stream too! How many clan wars have u seen destiny in? He recently took a game off Naniwa in the EG Masters cup if that counts, and that was the first clan war he participated in.
He was also played as the Ace in that clan war, interestingly enough.
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It all makes sense now o_O
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On June 14 2011 11:53 EricCartman wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2011 11:49 FLuE wrote:No disrespect to Destiny. I do not think he is much of a team player, more like an entertaining streamer. So... you just like pulling that out of your ass or do you have something to back it up? I don't see why he isn't a "team player" just because he does some streaming. I don't see why he'd have been a part of root and seeming to do fine if he wasn't, he'd have had no reason to join in the first place if that were the case. That's just my opinion my friend. He is a great player with some pretty decent skills. Just the lack of real results vs the extreme success of his stream leads me to believe that he is more of an entertainer than a real hardcore pro gamer. He can support himself off solely through his stream too! How many clan wars have u seen destiny in?
I disagree, Destiny has improved even Catz and other top players have said it. Thats actually one of the reasons I watch his stream is watching his improvements. With more practice partners and with catz and drewbie having lots of time to practice i think they will rocket up with talent and skill.
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On June 14 2011 08:05 badcnr wrote:
I really cant wait for to see how drewbie and catz improve and play. I hope destiny keeps getting better too. Thanks to Drewbie i think i understand why Kiwi didnt want to go to complexity ,but as a fan of kiwi and pretty much all of root i cant wait to see how everything turns out for all of them. maybe next mlg catz drewbie kiwi sheth semi finals. lol . battle of the ex roots
lol keep dreaming, CatZ won't be making it to the semi finals of MLG any time soon. The guy can't even get out of the open bracket.
Also, to Drewbie:
I think results also speak for themselves. You said it yourself, Kiwi does zero streaming, and no forum posting or videos. Yet look at his following, and the fact that he can draw people to watch his games, because he is SKILLED. Look at Korean players like MC, MarineKing, MVP. People like watching them and they have a huge draw to live tournaments (in the case of MC) because his skill is amazing, not because he makes videos, or casts games or streams live. You talk about the tangibles of streaming etc., but ignore the fact that winning has intangible value in that it draws spectators to watch them. Being a top contender is also valuable. Do you notice how when coL acquired ROOT and Kiwi and Slush didn't go, that drew the most attention and most concern? I can tell you at a good 50% of the people are more concerned with where Kiwi and Slush end up rather than whatever happens to the other people who joined coL from ROOT. Despite them not doing any of the "additionals" so to speak, they still draw a fanbase because the WIN tournaments. Being a creative but perennial loser only has draw for so long.
Now that you guys are part of a bigger team, CatZ has zero excuses now for playing poorly.
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Now that you guys are part of a bigger team, CatZ has zero excuses now for playing poorly.
I have a feeling that Catz will still provide some leadership, but hopefully now just in a big brother role that doesn't carry outside of the game itself.
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Drew thank you for clearing things up.
Can't wait to see the rebirth of the drewbie drops tearing it up in events!
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On June 14 2011 12:08 ct2299 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2011 08:05 badcnr wrote:
I really cant wait for to see how drewbie and catz improve and play. I hope destiny keeps getting better too. Thanks to Drewbie i think i understand why Kiwi didnt want to go to complexity ,but as a fan of kiwi and pretty much all of root i cant wait to see how everything turns out for all of them. maybe next mlg catz drewbie kiwi sheth semi finals. lol . battle of the ex roots lol keep dreaming, CatZ won't be making it to the semi finals of MLG any time soon. The guy can't even get out of the open bracket. Also, to Drewbie: I think results also speak for themselves. You said it yourself, Kiwi does zero streaming, and no forum posting or videos. Yet look at his following, and the fact that he can draw people to watch his games, because he is SKILLED. Look at Korean players like MC, MarineKing, MVP. People like watching them and they have a huge draw to live tournaments (in the case of MC) because his skill is amazing, not because he makes videos, or casts games or streams live. You talk about the tangibles of streaming etc., but ignore the fact that winning has intangible value in that it draws spectators to watch them. Being a top contender is also valuable. Do you notice how when coL acquired ROOT and Kiwi and Slush didn't go, that drew the most attention and most concern? I can tell you at a good 50% of the people are more concerned with where Kiwi and Slush end up rather than whatever happens to the other people who joined coL from ROOT. Despite them not doing any of the "additionals" so to speak, they still draw a fanbase because the WIN tournaments. Being a creative but perennial loser only has draw for so long. Now that you guys are part of a bigger team, CatZ has zero excuses now for playing poorly.
MC is actually pretty involved in fans, and does frequent interviews and has made an active effort in improving his English to communicate with his foreign fans, that's part of why he's so amazingly popular. Also, I think the Koreans are sort of different in this case, most of that coverage is done for them through the GSL with players videos, interviews and various other little insightful specials.
Obviously people would be concerned about Kiwi and Slush, they're prominent members of ROOT and it was made clear that the rest of the people had a destination, that part was wrapped up, and people love speculation and since Kiwi and Slush are sort of in the open, that left plenty of room for speculation. If results alone were enough to secure financial backing, then I would think that ROOT would have much more of it than any of the other teams in NA with inferior results, but this simply wasn't the case.
Also, I would hardly consider anyone on ROOT a "perennial loser" unless you want to single out a mere handful of players in North America as successful or good, the players in ROOT have had comparable results with most players on other top teams in the region.
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On June 14 2011 11:27 GypsyBeast wrote:
i dont see why Col would go though all this trouble and not pick up the 2 best members (and arguably the only 2 good enough to do well in any tournies) of the team there must be some good offers in other teams in the mix for them. this all seems like too silly to come about from anything other then huge financial troubles on roots end.
well sponsorship is not about good players it is about popularity and catz+destiny are some of the most popular players and they have a lot more selling power than someone that maybe better than them in skill, heck I would more likely buy something that sponsors destiny over something that sponsors slush--if you consider slush better than destiny which I do.
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dude nobody as an individual is interested in just sponsoring a team if there's nothing to gain from it
I know that, I was just kidding. Why do big companies sponsor teams anyways? Just because EG is sponsored by Intel doesn't mean I'm going to buy Intel stuff. I buy Intel stuff because i think they are the best.
I could see kiwikaki just being on his own for awhile, unless he really likes playing in CWs. Just because he isn't on the same team as them doesn't mean he is losing practice partners/friends.
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amazing. gl all. u deserve guys!
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ex-ROOT members: don't listen to all the haters, after all, haters gonna hate. I just hope you guys can succeed and keep making esports grow!
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On June 14 2011 07:50 Destiny wrote:Show nested quote +On June 14 2011 07:45 coL.drewbie wrote:LOL this thread is disgusting, some people in here really have their heads up their asses. Lets try and clear some things up. Me and CatZ tried very hard to make ROOT work, and to get our own sponsors and make it on our own. Unfortunately it has proved to be much, much harder than we ever thought, and even if we found 1 or 2 good sponsors, it would still not make us even close to enough money to compensate for all the hours it takes us to run ROOT. We did it for a very long time, not making any money at all and paying our own way to tournaments, because we loved the team and Starcraft 2, but unfortunately Starcraft 2 is not just a game for us, it is our livelihood, and we need to treat it as a business, and ROOT just didn't work as a business. Sponsors are looking for teams that have players that are willing to put themselves out there in the community and get exposure and do interviews and make videos and promote their product. We couldn't even get KiWiKaKi or Slush to post on the root-gaming.com website ffs, they only treated SC2 as a game, and that is 100% fine with me, they are amazing players and friends but they don't give a shit about the business side. The ROOT members that went to complexity are willing to work hard to make Starcraft work on a business level and complexity is a huge organization that has had many years of experience supporting the top players in the world and marketing them and helping them in every way. Just think about IdrA, before he joined EG he wasn't making any money, but EG showed IdrA how to treat the game as a business, and make training videos and cast and coach and stream and do tons of interviews and get himself out there. Complexity can give us this amazing support, so that we can play Starcraft full time, which in the end is best for the fans and viewers because it will produce better quality players and games. So I for one, am really happy to be joining complexity, as sad as I am that Slush and Kiwi will not be joining us, I do think that it is for the best, and I can promise that from now on I will step up my game, as I have more time to dedicate to practicing now, and I am a lot more motivated since I don't have to deal with running a team anymore. It would be nice if everyone stopped bashing on me / catz / minigun / ddoro / destiny, and treating slush / kiwi like superstars LOL I know slush did really amazing at the last MLG but I did beat him in the group stages and in a tournament finals not too long ago and at MLG dallas 2010 finals so I am not sure why everyone thinks he is levels above everyone else in ROOT. I know that KiWiKaKi has always been our all-star player, but any team he joins will be sadly disappointed because he is asking for a LOT of money, and he is not even willing to post on the forums. Anyways, I loved ROOT but it is time to move on, we are still the same people that you know and love, only now we have the support of a huge team to publicize / promote / send us to events which will only make us better players . so wat u r saying is that kiwi + slush r true gamers who love esports and u and catz are just trying to get rich playin games lol?
Living at ma' and pa's house until you're old enough to see them die and inherit their place isn't a viable option for most people. He made it pretty clear they were paying their own way and not making profits.
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EPT
