EPTLol?
While I don't agree that gateway units are weak it's possible to get that impression as a toss player when you amove Zealot Stalker into stimmed Marine Marauder.
What WoL units/mechanics are uninteresting? - Page 16
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wonderwall
New Zealand695 Posts
While I don't agree that gateway units are weak it's possible to get that impression as a toss player when you amove Zealot Stalker into stimmed Marine Marauder. | ||
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sicarii
United States93 Posts
On June 01 2011 08:14 teh_longinator wrote: My only complaint about any Starcraft 2 units is that Overlords cannot act as detectors. Therefore, it means that Zerg either HAS to rush lair, or throw down a potentially unwanted Evolution Chamber in order to detect anything. All that I ask is that we get our Overlords back to the way they were... granted, I do love the Contaminate ability in ZvZ, although I never get around to using it. So protoss HAS to rush robo or throw down an unwanted forge, wait lets give pylons detection -_-... I think Orbital commands should require an engineering bay, but i can only dream cause then terran can't all in and still constantly stream marines, no that would make the game unbalanced. | ||
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mordk
Chile8385 Posts
1. Corruptor (Worst unit design EVER) 2. Overseer 3. Reaper Useless units 1. Ultralisks (These NEED to change, they're like a staple of zerg brutality, they can't be THIS bad) 2. Carrier (Again, a staple of late-game protoss, I think that what REALLY screws carriers is the lack of shield recharge on return for interceptors. They just die) As for other suggestions of possible additions. I'd go for something like this. 1. Give protoss an air unit that is more versatile, more useful in all stages of the game, one that maybe you can just, mix in, in your mid-late game army for some value. 2. Take the focus off collossi for protoss. It's too much of a centric unit right now. Either you counter them and survive, or not counter them and die, just like that. It's ridiculous, gateway units should be the centerpiece of an army. not collossi. 3. Zerg is fine imo, add what you will but do your best to make zerg stay as zergy as it is and has always been. 4. Do some change that will turn mech into a "more standard" strategy for terran, thus adding variety to the game. 5. Get some more impressive unit sounds, these are the ones that need fixing, some more "personality": -Hydralisk -Ultralisk -Zealot attack -DT -Mutalisk -Archon -Mothership -CORRUPTOR (Actually, forget this, just eliminate this unit) | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27018 Posts
Personally I'd prefer something like this for the sentry than the current forcefields, you'd have to put more consideration in dropping it on high DPS units than simply splitting and blocking off whole armies. Make it more energy intensive so it's not spammable either. This way at least Protoss can survive a marine marauder push without relying on insane forcefields. Marauders need tweaked as well. Either make it so they can't stim + use concussive shell, or make concussive shell active cast so you really have to target it's useage. It's ridiculous that you can have equal value armies and end up with barely anything left because you are physically unable to pull micro ANYTHING that has this on. Collosi is not so much overpowered as it is a necessity because of the riskyness of pursuing other tech paths, ESPECIALLY against Terran bio-balls. Against zerg I always get a few to thin out their armies. Then they bring out corrupters which quickly become useless because I can switch very easily to a templar/archon supplementation to my initial gate mix. I don't really have much to add only that perhaps immortals should attack with less damage but more frequently, or with more range, something to give them some offensive capacity. Either that or class them as a massive unit so that you can actually pull them out of a fight that marauders are in. This can change their role back to that of a high-value tank as opposed to a high damage ffired unit. Personally I'm trying to think of tweaks that don't completely break the game, and it's pretty difficult, Blizz has designed the game in a certain way and it's difficult to get around that. Perhaps they could buff AoE damage, but implement less of a 'deathball' pathing system. This means the likes of tanks and collosi are not so stupidly effective with no micro involved, and AoE spells retain viability. Fungal is kind of ridiculous as well, it basically makes me shit myself if we're playing on an even economic keel, I can't do any kind of aggression on his expos until I'm maxed out, because I cannot retreat ANYTHING. I'd rather not defend my own bases until I have a horrific deathball, but I feel I cannot engage a lot of the time otherwise unless I am 100% certain he doesn't have infestors sitting around. Make certain unit abilities NOT require energy, but be on a cooldown. I played a ridiculous turtled terran yesterday, he had missile turrets positioned so well I couldn't get an obs in the entire game, tried to blink stalkers up there and they got wiped, hallucinations were either blocked on the ground or wiped out if they were air. To cut a long story short, this guy rolls out with a maxed army of battlecruisers. I've got my 3/3 on blink stalkers and had my templar archives down. With a bit of blink micro (not much), some focus fire and MASS feedback I wiped those cruisers out with barely any losses. Why is an effective counter to one of SC's "premiere" units an anti-caster ability? | ||
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jalstar
United States8198 Posts
You can say that HTs serve the same role but protoss needs Colossus and HTs to do significant amounts of damage in the mid-late game, and if you can only make one or the other it's too easy to blind counter. | ||
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Fungal Growth
United States434 Posts
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aZealot
New Zealand5447 Posts
- Nerf Colossus but keep the unit. Perhaps lower the range to 8 and reduce it's AOE in some form? I think the mobility and cliff walking should be kept as it is vulnerable to air (not to mention turrets) and if immobility (like sieging, for instance) was introduced then this weakness should be removed. - Buff Archon, perhaps by an increase in splash/aoe damage? - Buff Immortals. I like the units and try to use them as often as I can, but they simply aren't very good. Maybe increase the range to 6 and re-introduce shield batteries (in base) to interact with hardened shield. Sentries could take on this role in the battlefield (especially if FF is removed/nerfed) so that they exchange mana energy for shield energy on the Immortal. - Carriers should be cool and powerful again. - Arbiters, or some variant, for the useless Mothership, I miss "Warp field stabilized". These can re-introduce stasis/vortex and recall to the battlefield (although perhaps not cloak). - Either push warp-gate back in the tech tree (Twilight Council perhaps?) with longer warp-in/cooldown times or remove it entirely. This would allow for the buffing of gateway units (the weakness of Zealots, without charge, for instance, goes totally against lore IMO) and the nerfing of the Sentry, for example, by reducing the time on FF or removing it altogether (especially if the Arbiter returns). Alternatively introduce Charge and Blink tech at Core level not Twilight, at a cheaper cost, with Charge Zealots immune to Concussive Shell (and Stalker scaling better: at least +1/+1). I love Protoss and I love playing Protoss but I think there are a few things off kilter with the race in SC2. Hopefully Blizzard rectify some of their design errors in HOTS. Edit/ LOL, my post has turned into something of a balance whine but meh. These are just thoughts I have been thinking for a while now and this seemed as good a place as any for them to come out. | ||
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shin ken
Germany614 Posts
Mechanics: Spawn Larva is the most unforgiving macro-mechanic compared to Mule/Chronoboost because there's (almost) no way to spam spawn larva unlike mules or chronos when you lost focus. Just allow multiple spawn larva on a hatcherie. They don't have to be instantly active (although it would be very zerg-like and asesome to add like 16 larva and spawn them into 24 lings ^^) - just let them stack up. With a small delay so it would be a little bit more effective spawn larva more frequently. Misc. Tweaks: Add LAN New Unit: Terrors which can merge into Superterrors which can attack buildings! | ||
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jinixxx123
543 Posts
but when you really think about it, first you have ppl saying that marine dps is to good, and within the same post they say colosus brake the game.. so its like, contradiction after contraction, nobody has any really good points because they contradict eachother. well anyway to be on topic, i play terran so ill only comment what i'd like to see for terran -maybe a lil reworking for thor strike cannon ability, possible replacement for another ability -and maybe a buff to heat seeker missile , if ppl see it in games, it always has ppl going wOWOWOWOWO , but right now in its current state i find its never really worth it. -a spider mine dropping unit to protect mech . | ||
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AySz88
United States83 Posts
On June 01 2011 08:54 Fungal Growth wrote: ++1. The sound effects from SC1 were sooo much better. Very worried about the voice actor for Kerrigan. Unlike Raynor's actor (he was quite good), I think this actress is somewhat suspect. I think I read somewhere that the voice actor being used in the previews was just some temporary person from another department (Diablo?). | ||
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jalstar
United States8198 Posts
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Maliris
Northern Ireland2557 Posts
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jinixxx123
543 Posts
On June 01 2011 09:02 jalstar wrote: I'd like to see macro abilities pushed to the late game to nerf one-base all-ins. Mules and Calldown Supply should require Starport, Chrono and WG should be at the Twilight Council, and Larva Inject should be researched somewhere at Lair Tech. thats kinda lame, talk about forcing a tech path..... | ||
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27018 Posts
On June 01 2011 09:02 jalstar wrote: I'd like to see macro abilities pushed to the late game to nerf one-base all-ins. Mules and Calldown Supply should require Starport, Chrono and WG should be at the Twilight Council, and Larva Inject should be researched somewhere at Lair Tech. That's actually a great idea man, one base all-ins are the bane of my SC2 career thus far, especially that 3 rax bottom ramp wall-in that seems to be gaining popularity | ||
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jalstar
United States8198 Posts
On June 01 2011 09:03 jinixxx123 wrote: thats kinda lame, talk about forcing a tech path..... Maybe TC is a bad idea, but late-game Terran always gets Starports, and late-game Zerg always gets Lair. | ||
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HiredGoonThug
United States72 Posts
On June 01 2011 08:49 mordk wrote: 1. Give protoss an air unit that is more versatile, more useful in all stages of the game, one that maybe you can just, mix in, in your mid-late game army for some value. Sorry, what? We have the void ray. It's versatile, useful at any stage of the game, and mixes well with any army composition. Unlike other races who have extreme polarized air (either only works well as a harassment unit or is too expensive to tech to without using it to end the game), toss gets the void ray. The best air unit for sprinkling into a ball. Void ray play kills turtle terran. Wrecks big power units. Heavily complements the colossus. Can shoot down and up. Needs no tech other than the basic building. Has an okay mineral to gas ratio. Needs no upgrades to be effective. Never overkills. | ||
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Resistentialism
Canada688 Posts
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WombaT
Northern Ireland27018 Posts
On June 01 2011 09:05 HiredGoonThug wrote: Plus it's not exactly a 'boring' unit, I actually like the charge mechanic they implemented with voids. Plus anything that helps me against turtling terran is great. I don't mind playing Terrans at all but my god hard turtling play is annoying as hellSorry, what? We have the void ray. It's versatile, useful at any stage of the game, and mixes well with any army composition. Unlike other races who have extreme polarized air (either only works well as a harassment unit or is too expensive to tech to without using it to end the game), toss gets the void ray. The best air unit for sprinkling into a ball. Void ray play kills turtle terran. Wrecks big power units. Heavily complements the colossus. Can shoot down and up. Needs no tech other than the basic building. Has an okay mineral to gas ratio. Needs no upgrades to be effective. Never overkills. | ||
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Jimbo77
139 Posts
I don't know how many of you play the campaign, but in the Piercing the Shroud mission there is this device called "chrono-rift" where movement speed and attack speed are slowed. That's how FG should works, not root everything. And concerning OP: Infestor is the first to redesign. NP had better be removed or, at least, its range must be reduced twice. As of now infestor just all/everything purpose unit. Spellcasters must be very, very "specialized". Each one in his very narrow niche. Players must think how to play in this concrete situation and not just mass one unit and win with one button. And then complain in the forums how boring this game is. | ||
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mordk
Chile8385 Posts
On June 01 2011 09:05 HiredGoonThug wrote: Sorry, what? We have the void ray. It's versatile, useful at any stage of the game, and mixes well with any army composition. Unlike other races who have extreme polarized air (either only works well as a harassment unit or is too expensive to tech to without using it to end the game), toss gets the void ray. The best air unit for sprinkling into a ball. Void ray play kills turtle terran. Wrecks big power units. Heavily complements the colossus. Can shoot down and up. Needs no tech other than the basic building. Has an okay mineral to gas ratio. Needs no upgrades to be effective. Never overkills. What? The void ray is the opposite of versatility. It's only useful in large numbers late game or in the early game when not scouted, it is EXTREMELY fragile and vulnerable to almost anything that shoots up and serves very specific purposes. A versatile unit is, for example, the stalker. The mutalisk. The marine. They are "core" units which can be useful in nearly any composition. The VR is no such thing. | ||
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