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On June 29 2011 10:08 Nimic wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2011 10:05 Defrath wrote:On June 29 2011 10:01 Nimic wrote:
I like iNcontroL, but at some point the straw-man arguments need to end. He always feels the need to exaggerate the negative things/comments, or at least focus on them. Most of us aren't trying to troll you at all times. Some of us have more or less legitimate concerns. Ignore the people using ridiculous hyperbole or name-calling, insults, etc.
I have a weird feeling about EG. I like iNcontroL, most of the time (or rather most of the time I love him). I also like SirScoots, particularly after the interview at... Columbus? People like Machine and Axslav, I don't mind them at all. I do sort of dislike Idra, but I think most of the SC2 fanbase "sort of" dislikes Idra. But despite all of this, I don't like EG as an organization. I'm not sure it makes sense. Wait, you don't like an organization because they lead a player in a direction that best suited his interests? The fact that EG allowed this to be talked about in Geoffs defense on a podcast says a lot about them as an organization. Yes, it is unfortunate that he isn't on SotG anymore (he was my favorite pillar), but jesus christ, be realistic. It's not just this. Oh, it's partly this. Not mainly because of the fact that iNcontroL jumped ship, but more over how the whole thing was handled. But come on, let's be honest here. There's been a few more of these over the past few months. Mainly, I think EG have a PR issue. Which is very ironic, considering they have iNcontroL on the team, and also SirScoots who seems to have a way with words.
I don't think there was anything wrong with PR. They didn't have to say anything. It was just some TL posters, being horrific people, who blew it way out of proportions. (not talking about you necessarily)
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It's such a pain having to deal with the lag. I'm just going to listen to it later and save time.
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On June 29 2011 10:06 On_Slaught wrote:
Didn't take Inside the Game long to turn into Sotg 2.0. Didn't Sotg also start as a "strat" show and evolved into a gossip/drama one? Either way they are both in the same spot now.
If they were serious about making this a sc2 show about strats I don't see why they feel it is necessary to even respond to the people attacking them. They did what they did because they could, not because they cared what anybody else (even JP) thought. Fine. It's over. Move on everyone.
Well for one they don't have 2 hosts that represent Terran and Zerg. Also it wouldn't be sotg 2.0 if dumb idiots would stop making drama out of nothing and just appreciate the amount of content we get from these people. If this whole deal has made some people dislike EG, when prior to it they liked them, they should just dig a whole and not worry about living a life. Because in the end they are running a business and have to make decisions that favor their business.
So much endless drama that could be completely avoided if people used their brains. I wonder if SC1 was this way.. eh probably not. God i wish i had found TL back when i got sc1.
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On June 29 2011 10:05 Blitz Beat wrote:
Didn't know about it until Alex mentioned it but... Basically all the shows (or most of the shows) on OneMoreGame are sponsored by and created by EG? If so, this kind of clarifies the perspective the shows are going to take. ~_~
I'm not sure I follow the logic. The shows on OneMoreGame were started as a joint project between SirScoots and djWheat. Because EG wants to get/has sponsors the show is/will be bias towards... what?
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my theory is that EG hacked jtv so that we can't hear incontrols rebuttal to their decision. There is only one reason that the team is named Evil Genisus.
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On June 29 2011 10:10 Engore wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2011 10:06 On_Slaught wrote:
Didn't take Inside the Game long to turn into Sotg 2.0. Didn't Sotg also start as a "strat" show and evolved into a gossip/drama one? Either way they are both in the same spot now.
If they were serious about making this a sc2 show about strats I don't see why they feel it is necessary to even respond to the people attacking them. They did what they did because they could, not because they cared what anybody else (even JP) thought. Fine. It's over. Move on everyone. Well for one they don't have 2 hosts that represent Terran and Zerg. Also it wouldn't be sotg 2.0 if dumb idiots would stop making drama out of nothing and just appreciate the amount of content we get from these people. If this whole deal has made some people dislike EG, when prior to it they liked them, they should just dig a whole and not worry about living a life. Because in the end they are running a business and have to make decisions that favor their business. So much endless drama that could be completely avoided if people used their brains. I wonder if SC1 was this way.. eh probably not. God i wish i had found TL back when i got sc1.
If we're lucky this part of the show will be done.
Just to point out, in the SOTG thread coL just revealed they were the team who offered a deal to SOTG which competed with EG.
(You would have loved the old TL back in BW days... those days were fun)
On June 29 2011 10:05 jlake02 wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2011 09:50 Zinroc wrote:On June 29 2011 09:48 ClysmiC wrote:On June 29 2011 09:46 Stijn wrote:
Basically, SotG was about to get a sponsor deal from a team that was not EG, creating an obvious conflict of interest for Incontrol. In mutual understanding EG decided to set up their own show (Inside the Game), with Incontrol on it. The SotG deal fell through but ITG was already mostly set up so they decided to go through with it? This is how I understand it. I think Razor wanted to sponsor SOTG while EG has Steelseries... Just guessing no proof, but its the only real sponsor conflict in the Esports scene. I appreciate Alex Garfield maintaining the confidentiality of those involved, but I'm willing to go on the record and reveal that compLexity arranged a strong sponsorship for SotG with SoundBlaster gaming. The deal would have put money in the pockets of all of the co-hosts. We did it because we love the show and felt it would be a great investment for our sponsor. JP liked the idea but did not accept the offer because it meant losing Geoff, which we understood.
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Djwheat, when people say "STOG made Incontrol" they don't mean from a player pov at all, they mean from a Podcast Point of view.
It was one of the most Populair podcasts in Esports and him being "forced" to quit should and will upset alot of people, and going to a show (no offense) that's not even giving him the chance to be the person that he was on STOG is really messed up.
To the guy on the call if he ever read's this: However you twist and turn the situation in the end it was EG's fault that he left, instead of keeping contact with JP (don't know whats behind the scenes) you went ahead and signed contracts with your own sponsors, witch fell trough and then made a new show even tho u haven't had a confirmation about what was up with the STOG sponsor deal. going from Advertising to 20k people LIVE and beyond that on recorded views, to 5k people no matter what is not beneficial, if u can say that it is i have no idea how you managed to run a successful team for so long-.-
I don't like EG, i will never like them again after this for ruining one the best shows iv ever watched for a lesser and totally different show.
Incontrol, u had No choice whatsoever in this. i still love you, and keep up the good work.
DJwheat. i love u as well but please don't try to cover for EG when its kinda obvious what's been up behind the scenes, and its really disgusting from whats been released so far.
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yaaaa product marketing... this podcast makes me never want to buy a product EG promotes
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On June 29 2011 10:08 Domination wrote:
This is hilarious. Picking the most absurd arguments instead of addressing the more reasonable complaints. Most people don't care about Incontrol leaving or SotG or anything like that. It's about people asking "so is it about EG sponsorship issues?" and sirscoots and djwheat going "LOL NO YOU GUYS ARE STUPID CONSPIRACY THEORISTS" and then it turns out to be complete horse caca.
This is exactly what I was thinking....
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This lag is unbearably bad, I hear 5-10 words every minute or so and the rest is complete silence :S I was really looking forward to hearing this as well, quite unfortunate.
My least favorite charge that has become apparent from this diversion of the SOTG cast is that ITGs show format is much too rigid, it doesn't have that same appeal that SOTG does. To be quite frank JP annoys me on the show but nevertheless SOTG is still my all time favorite podcast. The interaction between Tyler and Geoff, the candid debates about balance between IdrA and a noncommittal Sean, the amazing off topic rants about horses and Artosis. That was the stuff that made the show mind blowingly awesome and a real treat to watch. This new rigid structure with ITG has basically eliminated those elements.
They may have sucked the knowledge and basic principles out of SOTG and put it into ITG but they are missing the shows soul. SOTG felt like a real conversation between friends about esports, ITG is just missing something that I think was vital to the success of SOTG.
Basically the situation is understandable, I get why they did it now and I don't have a problem with how they handled the situation, never did to be honest. None the less, the loss of Geoff on SOTG, the loss of the show in general is a huge blow, in my opinion, to the entire Starcraft 2 community and I kind of hope that they can work something out and get Geoff(and IdrA) back on the show as a regular addition.
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On June 29 2011 10:08 Domination wrote:
This is hilarious. Picking the most absurd arguments instead of addressing the more reasonable complaints. Most people don't care about Incontrol leaving or SotG or anything like that. It's about people asking "so is it about EG sponsorship issues?" and sirscoots and djwheat going "LOL NO YOU GUYS ARE STUPID CONSPIRACY THEORISTS" and then it turns out to be complete horse caca.
This.
I don't expect them to address it by the end of the show either.
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On June 29 2011 10:14 Fulgrim wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2011 10:08 Domination wrote:
This is hilarious. Picking the most absurd arguments instead of addressing the more reasonable complaints. Most people don't care about Incontrol leaving or SotG or anything like that. It's about people asking "so is it about EG sponsorship issues?" and sirscoots and djwheat going "LOL NO YOU GUYS ARE STUPID CONSPIRACY THEORISTS" and then it turns out to be complete horse caca. This is exactly what I was thinking....
they dont have to give a complete explanation as to why they decided to do something. but they definitely shouldnt have denied the real issue. if they just never said anything at all it would have all gone away by now.
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Also, what's wrong on ITG competing against SotG? :|
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On June 29 2011 09:50 HCastorp wrote:
This is a fascinating look into the business of esports and esports stream programming.
Thank you djWHEAT!
Quoting my own past to add that we should also thank EG for letting this happen, since they (if I understand correctly) are paying all three of the people on the show right now.
While I predict that this show may hurt them more than help them with the community at large, but I for one am more fascinated than anything else.
I think djWHEAT's understanding of and sympathy towards the business side of esport is one of the things that makes him such a valuable part of the community.
This is a good opportunity to remember that esports teams are businesses. Players have to either join these brands or become brands themselves in order to succeed. I'll miss Inc on SOTG. The tension between players as members of the community and players as brands is coming to the foreground more and more these days. But this is what happens. The very forces that make it possible for players to dedicate themselves entirely to the game are the same ones that take away from their freedoms.
Teamliquid has performed an incredible balancing act so far, probably with more success than any other proteam - I hope they are able to continue.
One final thought: GODDAMN WHY DOES IT LAG SO BAD
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On June 29 2011 10:13 On_Slaught wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2011 10:10 Engore wrote:On June 29 2011 10:06 On_Slaught wrote:
Didn't take Inside the Game long to turn into Sotg 2.0. Didn't Sotg also start as a "strat" show and evolved into a gossip/drama one? Either way they are both in the same spot now.
If they were serious about making this a sc2 show about strats I don't see why they feel it is necessary to even respond to the people attacking them. They did what they did because they could, not because they cared what anybody else (even JP) thought. Fine. It's over. Move on everyone. Well for one they don't have 2 hosts that represent Terran and Zerg. Also it wouldn't be sotg 2.0 if dumb idiots would stop making drama out of nothing and just appreciate the amount of content we get from these people. If this whole deal has made some people dislike EG, when prior to it they liked them, they should just dig a whole and not worry about living a life. Because in the end they are running a business and have to make decisions that favor their business. So much endless drama that could be completely avoided if people used their brains. I wonder if SC1 was this way.. eh probably not. God i wish i had found TL back when i got sc1. If we're lucky this part of the show will be done. Just to point out, in the SOTG thread coL just revealed they were the team who offered a deal to SOTG which competed with EG.(You would have loved the old TL back in BW days... those days were fun) Show nested quote +On June 29 2011 10:05 jlake02 wrote:On June 29 2011 09:50 Zinroc wrote:On June 29 2011 09:48 ClysmiC wrote:On June 29 2011 09:46 Stijn wrote:
Basically, SotG was about to get a sponsor deal from a team that was not EG, creating an obvious conflict of interest for Incontrol. In mutual understanding EG decided to set up their own show (Inside the Game), with Incontrol on it. The SotG deal fell through but ITG was already mostly set up so they decided to go through with it? This is how I understand it. I think Razor wanted to sponsor SOTG while EG has Steelseries... Just guessing no proof, but its the only real sponsor conflict in the Esports scene. I appreciate Alex Garfield maintaining the confidentiality of those involved, but I'm willing to go on the record and reveal that compLexity arranged a strong sponsorship for SotG with SoundBlaster gaming. The deal would have put money in the pockets of all of the co-hosts. We did it because we love the show and felt it would be a great investment for our sponsor. JP liked the idea but did not accept the offer because it meant losing Geoff, which we understood.
Well prepare for another shit storm in the coming week. If that is in fact true about CoL.. jesus christ help us all..
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Really...not knowing the truth made the community angry. Now that the truth is out people are still angry about the details of the truth revealed. And people wonder why EG wanted to keep it private.
And I think their point about it not really being about sponsorship is that SotG technically doesn't have any sponsorship now. But it might get some. And that hypothetical sponsorship might create a conflict.
EDIT: Just want ITG to go back to normal. No more drama. Just some brief "What everyone is up to?" then on to learning. Don't know why even now people are comparing this to SotG. It's not the same. ITG is more Day9 Daily Q&A at the end.
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It's sad that SOTG took a large hit like this, but I do enjoy ITG's new spin on things. In my opinion, SotG was going downhill anyway. A lot of awkward trolling by JP and monotonous droning by Tyler(I love Tyler btw) in between Day9's laughing and Geoff's witty smart ass remarks. I realize a lot of people would find that entertaining, but it's not why I started watching SotG when they started back in the beta.
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I find it funny that people think they deserve full transparency in situations where they aren't involved in at all.
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"Over-elaboration"? This such a loaded phrase. Sigh...I don't even 
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On June 29 2011 10:22 dANiELcanuck wrote:
It's sad that SOTG took a large hit like this, but I do enjoy ITG's new spin on things. In my opinion, SotG was going downhill anyway. A lot of awkward trolling by JP and monotonous droning by Tyler(I love Tyler btw) in between Day9's laughing and Geoff's witty smart ass remarks. I realize a lot of people would find that entertaining, but it's not why I started watching SotG when they started back in the beta.
I Agree. I think that SOTG may even be better a bit more starcraftish and lot less trollish with incontrol being in ITG.
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EPT
