On March 27 2013 08:36 faqqSen wrote: shows got realy boring since the eg mob is agreeing on everything. no controversy. need painuser back!
All that said, I can't think of a Terran off the top of my head that would be better than Demuslim (who is good at the game and great on the show), except maybe Major (who is in Korea). Then again, maybe we could spice things up by giving one of the regulars a break each week?
You really think demuslim is good on the show? I think he is a nice guy and has knowledge but he is a freaking mute on the show. He never talks unless spoken to. He never jumps in on any of the conversations and wheat has to constantly prod him to talk. I thought he might improve since he was first on but he hasn't. His personality is just not cut out to be on these types of shows.
Someone should take a stopwatch to see how much he talks per episode because I don't think it's much more than the new co-host who replaced scoots on live on three. Not everyone is cut out for these round table shows and sometimes you have to call a spade a spade. To be successful you actually have to talk and interact with the group and not put yourself on an island in the corner.
You dont have to speak a lot for people to enjoy your presence on a show. Think Tyler on SotG, he will talk maybe 5-10% of the whole show and his input is almost always quite good/welcomed and he has stayed for a very long time. Saying someone is not "cut out" to be a part of the show is a matter of personal opinion and adds no constructive criticism towards a thread.
Except he is supposed to be the sole representative of terran race here. It'd be another matter if he was a part-time guest like day9 on SotG. Those talk shows tend to discuss balance quite often and frankly lack of well-argued terran perspective is hurting validity of the discussion.
Why would he argue when he's usually agreeing that most of the shit they're talking about with Terran 'is' very powerful? Defending your race just because you play it when something is strong just makes an argument turn annoying and childish. Demuslim is somebody who knows when to talk, and he thinks before he speaks with a point that generally isn't arguable because he puts great logic or facts behind it.
On March 27 2013 21:34 monkybone wrote: Qxc would be a better terran on the show, not only for the increasing problem with EG bias, but Qxc is also the most outspoken terran out there, and a good representative for the terran perspective. He is well-suited for this kind of show, and he's not afraid to speak his opinion.
I have nothing against demuslim, but I agree that he's not the best pick for this show. He's not as opinionated as the others. And everyone knows that the more opinionated you are, the better show you make. As long as you're making sense. If anything he was a step up from painuser.
You could argue QXC is too biased though and him already being a regular on SotG being an issue, he's well known for saying he only watches games where terran wins, so his understanding of the other races perspective is minimal, having this perspective is sort of the whole point of even having a balance discussion, or you might as well start reading TL balance threads. Ofcourse, Idra is somewhat notorious for his tunnel vision as well, but considering people love him for that, I think we can let that slide, it's not like there's anyone in the scene that doesn't take his balance opinions with a bucket of salt.
Also, I really don't mind the EG bias, really don't experience it as such a strong thing as other people seem to, if you really get bothered by their bias you might as well get offended by any bias on television, fuck knows there are almost no programs that have none.
i don't know, i liked the show with Painuser and i like it now. but maybe that's moreso because i don't take balance discussion all that seriously. to me the best part about balance discussions is always Idra's snide comments and Incontrol's hyperbole/impersonations of players abusing something he considers OP. i'm probably one of the few people that wished Painuser was still there though, not to say i don't like Demuslim but Painuser was a unique and likeable character in the sc2 community imo.
i don't really know what other english speaking terrans you could replace him with though anyways. Major isn't the type of guy to always be on these shows and now lives in Korea in a Kespa team house. Thorzain lives in Korea and would probably be very similar to Demuslim tbh, plus it doesn't remove the so-called 'EG bias' of course. i don't know who else is relevant. i doubt a EU terran would want to be on the show given what time it is in europe when it's on. maybe Polt once his english goes full baller
On March 27 2013 21:34 monkybone wrote: Qxc would be a better terran on the show, not only for the increasing problem with EG bias, but Qxc is also the most outspoken terran out there, and a good representative for the terran perspective. He is well-suited for this kind of show, and he's not afraid to speak his opinion.
I have nothing against demuslim, but I agree that he's not the best pick for this show. He's not as opinionated as the others. And everyone knows that the more opinionated you are, the better show you make. As long as you're making sense. If anything he was a step up from painuser.
You could argue QXC is too biased though and him already being a regular on SotG being an issue, he's well known for saying he only watches games where terran wins, so his understanding of the other races perspective is minimal, having this perspective is sort of the whole point of even having a balance discussion, or you might as well start reading TL balance threads.
Do you really believe that? Qxc is a pro gamer, and he even has a video series on balance. He's more capable of engaging in a balance discussion than anyone else. Everyone are biased towards their race. But more than anything, he is capable of representing the terran perspective.
I find balance discussions on shows to be amusing, but in an self aware, ironic sort of way. But not if they are 100% serious, then they just start to suck. I do not want any “serious” discussions on balance on any professional show. The whole concept of professional gamers discussing balance for their specific race seems pointless, unprofessional and almost immature. I already know that each player is going to defend their race, be bias toward it and the whole thing seems totally played out. I like QXC, because he wears his bias on his sleeve and is very self aware that he isn’t able to really provide an objective point of view. However, I only enjoy it in the joking manner than he presents it and all discussions should be kept on that tone.
Balance discussions seem to really diminish the competitive part of the game and feed into peoples desire to blame the game for their losses. I would rather they discuss how difficult a specific part of the game is and throw around ways to deal with it, rather than feeding into the communities balance complaints. It just leads to silly, factional arguments were everyone wants their side represented and gets upset when they didn’t have their specific issue addressed in the way they wanted. It degrades down so quickly and get super serious(see SotG) when it shouldn’t be.
On March 27 2013 08:36 faqqSen wrote: shows got realy boring since the eg mob is agreeing on everything. no controversy. need painuser back!
All that said, I can't think of a Terran off the top of my head that would be better than Demuslim (who is good at the game and great on the show), except maybe Major (who is in Korea). Then again, maybe we could spice things up by giving one of the regulars a break each week?
You really think demuslim is good on the show? I think he is a nice guy and has knowledge but he is a freaking mute on the show. He never talks unless spoken to. He never jumps in on any of the conversations and wheat has to constantly prod him to talk. I thought he might improve since he was first on but he hasn't. His personality is just not cut out to be on these types of shows.
Someone should take a stopwatch to see how much he talks per episode because I don't think it's much more than the new co-host who replaced scoots on live on three. Not everyone is cut out for these round table shows and sometimes you have to call a spade a spade. To be successful you actually have to talk and interact with the group and not put yourself on an island in the corner.
You dont have to speak a lot for people to enjoy your presence on a show. Think Tyler on SotG, he will talk maybe 5-10% of the whole show and his input is almost always quite good/welcomed and he has stayed for a very long time. Saying someone is not "cut out" to be a part of the show is a matter of personal opinion and adds no constructive criticism towards a thread.
Demuslim is fine. England represent :p
I think anyone would seem quiet when alongside personalities like Incontrol and Idra.
Demuslim is a great guy and a great player, however he rarely has anything interesting to say (IMO). I think both Idra and Incontrol have interesting personalities, and I would prefer that the terran host had interesting opinions as well. Being a top top player obviously shouldn't be a high priority as Incontrol clearly isn't, and yet is a popular host. As long as the terran player watches tournmanets regularly and plays at a competitive level (GM), then that is good enough for me.
Do you really believe that? Qxc is a pro gamer, and he even has a video series on balance. He's more capable of engaging in a balance discussion than anyone else. Everyone are biased towards their race. But more than anything, he is capable of representing the terran perspective.
I do think its a problem though if the host doesn't watch enough games. When QCx only watches a couple of games from a major tournament then he can't bring enough into discussions about the tournmannt.
On March 28 2013 00:30 Hider wrote: I do think its a problem though if the host doesn't watch enough games. When QCx only watches a couple of games from a major tournament then he can't bring enough into discussions about the tournmannt.
How much of that is hyperbole though? Qxc is both a caster and an analyst at tournaments, so you can't say with a straight face that he doesn't watch enough games.
This isn't abut general game knowledge (he is fine in that regard). Its about being able to talk about tournmanets every time a major tournament has occured. QXC seems to prioritize other stuff than watching GSL semifinals/finals etc. Like I want the host to talk about the new'est strategies he just saw in game X and how that applies in various situations/long term viability etc. QXC simply doesn't watch enough games to satifisy that condition.
he was so delusional he thought he DT was better than the Banshee, lol
Deslusional? Really? Please don't shit on people for expressing an opinion, and in my opinion it is actually valid (especially at the time). At th time Painuser expressed the opinion, people had a lot worse multitasking and thus warpin in a couple of dt's in the mid/late game was a really really strong option and could do a lot of damage. There is no such a thing as a banshee transition in the late game (due to how terran production mehcanicm works), so Painuser definitely had a valid opinion. (DT's stronger in the later game). Personally, I think comparing which unit is the best is absolutely nonsense as the races works very different, thus there is no clear winner in that regard.
he was so delusional he thought he DT was better than the Banshee, lol
Deslusional? Really? Please don't shit on people for expressing an opinion, and in my opinion it is actually valid (especially at the time). At th time Painuser expressed the opinion, people had a lot worse multitasking and thus warpin in a couple of dt's in the mid/late game was a really really strong option and could do a lot of damage. There is no such a thing as a banshee transition in the late game (due to how terran production mehcanicm works), so Painuser definitely had a valid opinion. (DT's stronger in the later game). I do think comparing which unit is the best is absolutely nonsense as the races works very different, thus there is no clear winner in that regard.
That is a clear case of both sides thinking that thing that kicks their ass is more powerful. I remember the argument and it was in the era when all Protoss builds centered around cloak banshee timings and end game protoss was this mythical, unbeatable thing that no one ever got to because the maps were so small.
On March 27 2013 08:36 faqqSen wrote: shows got realy boring since the eg mob is agreeing on everything. no controversy. need painuser back!
All that said, I can't think of a Terran off the top of my head that would be better than Demuslim (who is good at the game and great on the show), except maybe Major (who is in Korea). Then again, maybe we could spice things up by giving one of the regulars a break each week?
You really think demuslim is good on the show? I think he is a nice guy and has knowledge but he is a freaking mute on the show. He never talks unless spoken to. He never jumps in on any of the conversations and wheat has to constantly prod him to talk. I thought he might improve since he was first on but he hasn't. His personality is just not cut out to be on these types of shows.
Someone should take a stopwatch to see how much he talks per episode because I don't think it's much more than the new co-host who replaced scoots on live on three. Not everyone is cut out for these round table shows and sometimes you have to call a spade a spade. To be successful you actually have to talk and interact with the group and not put yourself on an island in the corner.
You dont have to speak a lot for people to enjoy your presence on a show. Think Tyler on SotG, he will talk maybe 5-10% of the whole show and his input is almost always quite good/welcomed and he has stayed for a very long time. Saying someone is not "cut out" to be a part of the show is a matter of personal opinion and adds no constructive criticism towards a thread.
I thought Tyler was a bad host on sotg for the same reasons why I pointed out with demuslim. The only reason why Tyler got away with it was because of his fan base and people saying that was just Tyler being"chill." If you auditioned a random person to be on the show and they acted the same way they would get a failing grade. However people can't view things objectively when it comes to their favourite players and think they can do anything well. I don't know why it's such a crime to think that people on talk shows should actually you know....talk....silly me I guess.
I like this show a lot and especially inc., demuslim and DjWheat are great, but man are the EG guys corporate tools sometimes.
Banning Koreans from foreign tournaments: terrible idea. Region lock (pc term for the above): brilliant idea.
I particularly like how IdrA insults different people every episode. Either it's a "terrible" player, usually somebody who has just wiped the floor with him, or Marineking, who would probably beat him with one hand. then it's Blizzard, then it's David Kim, this week it's the community being dumb for not remembering IdrA being good in 2010/11.
His condescensions were amusing when he could still back them up, but it's getting increasingly tragic.
On March 28 2013 02:39 kafkaesque wrote: I like this show a lot and especially inc., demuslim and DjWheat are great, but man are the EG guys corporate tools sometimes.
Banning Koreans from foreign tournaments: terrible idea. Region lock (pc term for the above): brilliant idea.
I particularly like how IdrA insults different people every episode. Either it's a "terrible" player, usually somebody who has just wiped the floor with him, or Marineking, who would probably beat him with one hand. then it's Blizzard, then it's David Kim, this week it's the community being dumb for not remembering IdrA being good in 2010/11.
His condescensions were amusing when he could still back them up, but it's getting increasingly tragic.
really, we said region lock was a brilliant idea? we said it was probably bad for competition, probably good for viewership, and that depending on how it was handled could sacrifice the integrity of the current big tournaments. glowing review eh? maybe if you could get that hate boner of yours to go down youd be able to actually pay attention to the show instead of just lashing out at us every chance you get.
On March 28 2013 02:39 kafkaesque wrote: I like this show a lot and especially inc., demuslim and DjWheat are great, but man are the EG guys corporate tools sometimes.
Banning Koreans from foreign tournaments: terrible idea. Region lock (pc term for the above): brilliant idea.
I particularly like how IdrA insults different people every episode. Either it's a "terrible" player, usually somebody who has just wiped the floor with him, or Marineking, who would probably beat him with one hand. then it's Blizzard, then it's David Kim, this week it's the community being dumb for not remembering IdrA being good in 2010/11.
His condescensions were amusing when he could still back them up, but it's getting increasingly tragic.
really, we said region lock was a brilliant idea? we said it was probably bad for competition, probably good for viewership, and that depending on how it was handled could sacrifice the integrity of the current big tournaments. glowing review eh? maybe if you could get that hate boner of yours to go down youd be able to actually pay attention to the show instead of just lashing out at us every chance you get.
That hate boner spews out just as much salty love. I always enjoy the show, incontrol's casting, DeMuslim's stream etc. and am quite vocal about it.
But point taken, I should have paid closer attention, perhaps you guys were more thorough than I gave you credit for.
I thought you argued that by removing Koreans from the equation, white dudes recognize a higher shot at winning, thus trying harder, thus actually increasing competition. If I misunderstood you: mea maxima culpa!
And sorry if you have gotten hate-jizz in your eye, I know that burns like a bitch.
Even though Incontrol is goof at times I find myself agreeing with a lot of what he says. I think the discussion around the region lock was interesting. I think over time that region locking will gain favor, benefiting both competition and viewership. The reason for this is that due to foreigner lack of dedication (speaking in Korean terms) has resulted in an accelerating gap. This only demoralizes and dis-encourages foreigners, and to-be foreigner pros from even trying.
Personally I wouldn't mind watching Koreans all day, I generally turn off the stream if it's foreigner vs. foreigner anyway, but in order to foster future growth in EU/NA for native pros region locking will become necessary. If the prize pools increase and the chance of winning multiplies, more people will compete. All it takes is for a couple of guys to say "I want all the money!", at which point any disadvantage will be solely on the players (though it always has been and still is), but blaming Koreans will not be acceptable anymore. At first the skill level will be way behind than the Korean scene, but a steady stream of money and hope for victory will lead to Korean style team-houses and skill. This is possible with the assumption that EU/NA team leaders/owners step up and make serious teams and houses with PROPER coaches and training methods. I still think there is massive room for improvement, even with a 6-8hr schedule.
EPT
