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Itsmedudeman
United States19229 Posts
Boxer and the others in their "prime" were worse at SC1 than when they retired and switched to sc2, that's just a fact The game constantly evolved so much since then that it's not even close to being a valid argument and they just weren't able to keep up with the newer generation | ||
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Surreal
42 Posts
On April 30 2011 11:11 iYiYi wrote: He has smashed euro and korean tournaments recently and it doesn't look like he is stopping anytime soon. TSL3? | ||
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jellyfish
United States149 Posts
It's an indefensible and unassailable claim because its completely hypothetical, and a rather irrelevant tangent besides. Ignore him, please. | ||
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Hinanawi
United States2250 Posts
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LwReisen
Australia94 Posts
On May 01 2011 18:51 teekesselchen wrote: I think Broodwar skill really matters tremendously. . I stopped reading here. I hate to break it to you, but... + Show Spoiler + The wc3 players are outperforming the bw players at sc2 overall. Yes, MC is the best player in the world, but most of the rest of the top <insert arbitrary number here> ...... On May 01 2011 19:08 Hinanawi wrote: I feel like Flash's talent would be wasted on SC2. Maybe it'll be a different story when HotS and LotV are out. I feel you worded this badly. What you were meant to say is: "Why would Flash change to sc2 and risk not being able to win when he can continue to earn a living playing BW" Which is a completely valid point btw. | ||
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Musou
1375 Posts
On May 01 2011 19:10 LwReisen wrote: I stopped reading here. I hate to break it to you, but... + Show Spoiler + The wc3 players are outperforming the bw players at sc2 overall. Yes, MC is the best player in the world, but most of the rest of the top <insert arbitrary number here> ...... What? Maybe in the foreign scene, but in the Korean scene, every single top player is from BW, not WC3. MC, MVP, MKP, Nada, July, Nestea, FD, Losira are what I think most people would consider the top players currently and they are all from BW. If you look at all the former WC3 players - Check, Ensnare, Maka, Lyn, Moon, etc.. none of them are even close to as good as the BW players. Even the current second tier and rising stars are mostly from BW - Tester, Killer, Bomber, MMA, Leenock, sC, and so on... WC3 players just aren't on the same level as BW players and you are delusional if you actually believe they are. | ||
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eoLithic
Norway221 Posts
On April 30 2011 10:51 MadCatZ wrote: quite debatable at this point. he's def great 1)but he has flaws in his gameplay 2)and his mental mindset (1+2 go together, compliments of each other. 2 effects 1) You need to see his skill in a relative perspective, compare him to others. His achievements are untouched by anyone else and he is winning more than anyone else, that is all that matters. What you think of him as a player is irrelevant. | ||
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rauk
United States2228 Posts
On May 01 2011 19:31 Musou wrote: What? Maybe in the foreign scene, but in the Korean scene, every single top player is from BW, not WC3. MC, MVP, MKP, Nada, July, Nestea, FD, Losira are what I think most people would consider the top players currently and they are all from BW. If you look at all the former WC3 players - Check, Ensnare, Maka, Lyn, Moon, etc.. none of them are even close to as good as the BW players. Even the current second tier and rising stars are mostly from BW - Tester, Killer, Bomber, MMA, Leenock, sC, and so on... WC3 players just aren't on the same level as BW players and you are delusional if you actually believe they are. it's got nothing to do with war3 or bw players being inherently better than each other. in the foreign scene, war3 was much larger than bw and you could actually be "pro." all the foreign bw players were amateur. now look at korea; their bw scene is magnitudes larger than the war3 scene, so it makes sense that there will be a lot more good bw pros than war3 pros just because there's a much deeper talent pool. | ||
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Garmer
1286 Posts
On May 01 2011 18:46 Legatus Lanius wrote: so what you are saying is that if flash was born in the same period as boxer, boxer would be better? not better, but equal at least On May 01 2011 19:05 jellyfish wrote: that Garmer guy was just saying that if Boxer had grown up in Flash's generation to play modern sc, he'd be at least on the same level as Flash. Or, alternatively, that if Flash had grown up in Boxer's generation to play early 2000s sc, he wouldn't dominate Boxer. It's an indefensible and unassailable claim because its completely hypothetical, and a rather irrelevant tangent besides. Ignore him, please. exactly this and the point in the end, is that you(general) can't compare them, they come from two different generation | ||
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Garmer
1286 Posts
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Musou
1375 Posts
On May 01 2011 19:44 rauk wrote: it's got nothing to do with war3 or bw players being inherently better than each other. in the foreign scene, war3 was much larger than bw and you could actually be "pro." all the foreign bw players were amateur. now look at korea; their bw scene is magnitudes larger than the war3 scene, so it makes sense that there will be a lot more good bw pros than war3 pros just because there's a much deeper talent pool. Explain why the top Chinese players are all former BW players as well, then. WC3 is and was much bigger in China than BW ever was, yet all the current top Chinese players are from BW (LoveTT, XiaoT, Super, Loner, F91, etc) | ||
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red4ce
United States7313 Posts
On May 01 2011 19:05 jellyfish wrote: that Garmer guy was just saying that if Boxer had grown up in Flash's generation to play modern sc, he'd be at least on the same level as Flash. Or, alternatively, that if Flash had grown up in Boxer's generation to play early 2000s sc, he wouldn't dominate Boxer. It's an indefensible and unassailable claim because its completely hypothetical, and a rather irrelevant tangent besides. Ignore him, please. There's no way of speculating how well Flash would do if he grew up in Boxer's era, but there is absolutely no chance Boxer even in his prime would succeed in the current brood war scene. Modern brood war requires strong macro mechanics (although macro and speed alone isn't enough to be great), which Boxer simply never had. On May 01 2011 19:10 LwReisen wrote: I stopped reading here. I hate to break it to you, but... + Show Spoiler + The wc3 players are outperforming the bw players at sc2 overall. Yes, MC is the best player in the world, but most of the rest of the top <insert arbitrary number here> ...... Would also be made up of mostly (Korean)ex- brood war players (MVP, Nestea, MKP, etc). Let me set something straight for you. NONE of the non-Korean brood war veterans currently playing SC2 were anything compared to the highest level players. Idra, Dimaga, Sen, White-ra, ret, tyler, etc. none of them were any better than your typical Korean brood war B teamer. Surely you can see the flaw in comparing world class WC3 players against mediocre (by professional standards) brood war players. | ||
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LastMan
90 Posts
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cuppatea
United Kingdom1401 Posts
On May 01 2011 19:56 Musou wrote: Explain why the top Chinese players are all former BW players as well, then. WC3 is and was much bigger in China than BW ever was, yet all the current top Chinese players are from BW (LoveTT, XiaoT, Super, Loner, F91, etc) WC3 is still alive in China so none of the top players have switched over, unlike BW. XiaoT is from WC3, though (he retired a few years ago). | ||
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Goldfish
2230 Posts
Though of course even if that happened, some players would want to focus on one game instead of trying to play two. (Some WC3 players play SC2 and WC3 though). | ||
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Popss
Sweden176 Posts
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thoradycus
Malaysia3262 Posts
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XenOsky
Chile2279 Posts
On May 01 2011 20:10 red4ce wrote: There's no way of speculating how well Flash would do if he grew up in Boxer's era, but there is absolutely no chance Boxer even in his prime would succeed in the current brood war scene. Modern brood war requires strong macro mechanics (although macro and speed alone isn't enough to be great), which Boxer simply never had. Would also be made up of mostly (Korean)ex- brood war players (MVP, Nestea, MKP, etc). Let me set something straight for you. NONE of the non-Korean brood war veterans currently playing SC2 were anything compared to the highest level players. Idra, Dimaga, Sen, White-ra, ret, tyler, etc. none of them were any better than your typical Korean brood war B teamer. Surely you can see the flaw in comparing world class WC3 players against mediocre (by professional standards) brood war players. QFT, well said dude. On May 01 2011 20:14 LastMan wrote: you r also forgetting that sc2 come out when bw was amost dead in EU/NA and only handful of active bw "pros" switched to sc2 (last bw wcg was a joke), there are alot of great players missing, majority of bw scene grew up, now have jobs and no time to play sc2 on a cempetetive level. still when they do they usually are great players without much practice (look on mondragon, i even remember draco playing in beta in few zotacs his play was sick good too even without any game experience) there was no "bw pros" outside of korea. the only foreigner BW pro was IdrA, and "a handul of active bw pros" is wrong, cause sen, tyler, dimaga, ret, white-ra were not PRO in bw, just really good amateurs... nor ret or tyler got their progamer licence. even if they were living at a pro house, didn't get to be official pro gamers. | ||
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sixfour
England11061 Posts
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Anzekay
Australia63 Posts
On May 01 2011 20:42 XenOsky- wrote:the only foreigner BW pro was IdrA, and "a handul of active bw pros" is wrong, cause sen, tyler, dimaga, ret, white-ra were not PRO in bw, just really good amateurs... nor ret or tyler got their progamer licence. even if they were living at a pro house, didn't get to be official pro gamers. Correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't Legionnaire be considered 'pro' since he participated in the 2004 Proleague? | ||
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