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Massive units are not affected by concussive shells. If you think they are, you are wrong.
It's SPORE crawlers that are being changed, not SPINE. Please read carefully. |
On April 28 2011 23:22 Whitewing wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2011 22:41 Deadlyfish wrote:On April 28 2011 22:22 Sqq wrote:On April 28 2011 22:09 BLinD-RawR wrote:
still no reason to nerf Protoss and Zerg and buff terrans.
Buff terrans without nerfing Protoss and Zerg and they will be fine.by that I mean buff Ravens. Buff Ravens ?? They are super strong as it is ? Auto Turret, PDD, HSM ? I dont agree that we should buff ravens or anything but just wanted to say that the Raven really really sucks. Getting 1 for some timing push or to combat burrowed banelings is fine, but other than that the abilities are just useless. It costs 200/200, and it can do a shitty turret, pdd (which is good early game, but late game it just kinda sucks, HSM isnt too good either, most units can run away, and you can just split your units aswell.) Basically the Raven has a lot of cool abilities, but they are too cool and arent really practical. They should either make the raven a viable spell caster, or just make it a plain old detector, cheaper obviously, or maybe give it an ability that's not so gimmicky like the ones it has now. I don't know what game you're playing, but the Raven in the Starcraft 2 I play is ridiculously awesome. PDD blocks out so much damage, auto-turret lasts for four bloody minutes and is very strong for harassing mineral lines, and Seeker Missile can unleash hell on any clump of units.
Well you wouldn't say the raven is as good as the infestor/ht or even ghost right? It's a very gimmicky unit. It's used in like 1 base timing pushes and whatever, and for detection, but it's so expensive that it's never worth getting it past like the 10 min mark.
So yea unless you plan on going mass raven for the laughs, then it's a pretty useless unit. I feel like blizzard just combined 2 units, a spellcaster (ht, infestor) and an observer and it just turned into neither. I'd like to see it become either, but what it is now.
Anyways, that's just my opinion on ravens, a bit offtopic :D
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On April 29 2011 00:19 thebole1 wrote:Show nested quote +Siege tanks right now do 35 + 15 damage to armored. With plus 1 carapace, that does not one shot zerglings. If you buffed siege tanks, it would one shot zerglings (and depending on how you buffed it, 2 shot infestors) and one shot banelings, no matter what the zerg does in terms of positioning, upgrades, etc. Your argument isn't based on sound fact. Where are you getting the 50-60? Also, they didn't revert the change of zealot training time according to http://us.battle.net/sc2/en/blog/2685005#blogYou need to just stop posting, bad english or not, because none of your argument is based on facts seige tank in siged mode do splash dps ye ? and kill 2 or 3 zerglings per shot....or banglings ..that is fact... so w tf ?is your argument... in unsiged mode they dont kill one shot lol i know that ... but i tolk abouth buff in siged mode not in unsiged....so lol sry for my ENG thx for reading.. 
... :'(
I cry for the ignorance of my fellow starcraft 2 brothers.
I just proved to you, that in that article, that one siege tank does 35 damage + 15 to armored units. Zerglings have 35 health. With +1 armor upgrade, that reduces the damage they take from siege mode to 34 damage, which doesn't kill them because they have 35 health and 35-34 is 1, not 0.
In addition, the article continues to state that:
"Units within .4687 of the target are dealt full damage, units from a distance of .4687 to .7812 are dealt 50% of the full damage, and units from a distance of .7812 to 1.25 are dealt 25% of the full damage"
Which means that they do NOT kill "2 or 3 zerglings per shot" unless they are within .4687 range of the target (which doesn't happen often), and THAT is fact. Please, please, please do your research before talking.
As for your zealot argument, you do realize that you're posting in the thread that takes about the 1.3.3 patch, right? And how is that applicable to siege tanks? How would getting more siege tanks quicker fix the "imbalance" that you say siege tanks face?
You know what, I'm done. I don't know why I'm trying to fix stupid.
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On April 29 2011 00:20 Deadlyfish wrote:
Well you wouldn't say the raven is as good as the infestor/ht or even ghost right? It's a very gimmicky unit. It's used in like 1 base timing pushes and whatever, and for detection, but it's so expensive that it's never worth getting it past like the 10 min mark.
So yea unless you plan on going mass raven for the laughs, then it's a pretty useless unit. I feel like blizzard just combined 2 units, a spellcaster (ht, infestor) and an observer and it just turned into neither. I'd like to see it become either, but what it is now.
Anyways, that's just my opinion on ravens, a bit offtopic :D
just because no one uses it doesn't make it useluss mid/lategame.
it just shows no one bothered to develope strategys with it.
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On April 29 2011 00:20 Deadlyfish wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2011 23:22 Whitewing wrote:On April 28 2011 22:41 Deadlyfish wrote:On April 28 2011 22:22 Sqq wrote:On April 28 2011 22:09 BLinD-RawR wrote:
still no reason to nerf Protoss and Zerg and buff terrans.
Buff terrans without nerfing Protoss and Zerg and they will be fine.by that I mean buff Ravens. Buff Ravens ?? They are super strong as it is ? Auto Turret, PDD, HSM ? I dont agree that we should buff ravens or anything but just wanted to say that the Raven really really sucks. Getting 1 for some timing push or to combat burrowed banelings is fine, but other than that the abilities are just useless. It costs 200/200, and it can do a shitty turret, pdd (which is good early game, but late game it just kinda sucks, HSM isnt too good either, most units can run away, and you can just split your units aswell.) Basically the Raven has a lot of cool abilities, but they are too cool and arent really practical. They should either make the raven a viable spell caster, or just make it a plain old detector, cheaper obviously, or maybe give it an ability that's not so gimmicky like the ones it has now. I don't know what game you're playing, but the Raven in the Starcraft 2 I play is ridiculously awesome. PDD blocks out so much damage, auto-turret lasts for four bloody minutes and is very strong for harassing mineral lines, and Seeker Missile can unleash hell on any clump of units. Well you wouldn't say the raven is as good as the infestor/ht or even ghost right? It's a very gimmicky unit. It's used in like 1 base timing pushes and whatever, and for detection, but it's so expensive that it's never worth getting it past like the 10 min mark. So yea unless you plan on going mass raven for the laughs, then it's a pretty useless unit. I feel like blizzard just combined 2 units, a spellcaster (ht, infestor) and an observer and it just turned into neither. I'd like to see it become either, but what it is now. Anyways, that's just my opinion on ravens, a bit offtopic :D
I just don't understand. Having one raven is always a plus to your army, putting down a PDD and eventually one or two tower. I think the main reason why we don't see more raven in TvP is that it is built from a starport with techlab while almost every units you actually need in TvP ask for a starport with reactor.
It's not weak, just not worth it imo.
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On April 28 2011 23:36 BLinD-RawR wrote:
no they are not.Autoturret is uselss unless you drop like 3 or 4,PDD is borderline.HSM...noone even uses HSM now that it was nerfed....HSM should be imba for all the stuff we need to do to get it.
It takes more to get Psi Storm than to get HSM, and Protoss players manage that just fine.
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On April 29 2011 00:53 Kyadytim wrote:Show nested quote +On April 28 2011 23:36 BLinD-RawR wrote:
no they are not.Autoturret is uselss unless you drop like 3 or 4,PDD is borderline.HSM...noone even uses HSM now that it was nerfed....HSM should be imba for all the stuff we need to do to get it. It takes more to get Psi Storm than to get HSM, and Protoss players manage that just fine.
If ravens had psi storm i'd make them. HSM is not worth getting like 99.9% of the time 
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On April 29 2011 00:57 Deadlyfish wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2011 00:53 Kyadytim wrote:On April 28 2011 23:36 BLinD-RawR wrote:
no they are not.Autoturret is uselss unless you drop like 3 or 4,PDD is borderline.HSM...noone even uses HSM now that it was nerfed....HSM should be imba for all the stuff we need to do to get it. It takes more to get Psi Storm than to get HSM, and Protoss players manage that just fine. If ravens had psi storm i'd make them. HSM is not worth getting like 99.9% of the time
Why do you find storm so much better than HSM? Is it purely that HSM is an all or nothing ability whereas from storm you get a second or two's damage minimum? I've almost never seen HSM used in big battles where micro becomes challenging and it's harder to move individual units around. Which is the exact situation storm shines in. As a zerg player I'd jump at the chance to land an HSM on a Toss deathball for example.
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When storm costs 150 energy to cast, then Protoss can compare it to HSM.
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Siege tanks not one shotting zerglings if zerg has +1 armor is from bw. They have no reason to change it.
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One HSM by itself does moderate damage, but a typical blob of enemies can withstand it. If I have only one Raven, I would elect to spend its energy on the PDD.
When I learned of the Salvage nerf, my thoughts directly went to Boxer's interview comment regarding "infinitely repeating Bunkers." :D
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Siege tanks not one shotting zerglings if zerg has +1 armor is from bw. They have no reason to change it.
i agree but i thouth in siged mode to be from 50/60 dps vs armored unites.....that i forgoth to mentioned...(for sige tanks buff)
this topic is not for sige tanks but i link it with this zealot change that is reverted from patchis before..
sige tanks simply arnt efective agenst toss as it should be....and this cange i think will not afect zerg...but its for PTR ofc....
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White-ra just said he thinks the patch is gonna be the best one yet, so that is atleast one pro POV if these changes come
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On April 29 2011 01:12 Silkath wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2011 00:57 Deadlyfish wrote:On April 29 2011 00:53 Kyadytim wrote:On April 28 2011 23:36 BLinD-RawR wrote:
no they are not.Autoturret is uselss unless you drop like 3 or 4,PDD is borderline.HSM...noone even uses HSM now that it was nerfed....HSM should be imba for all the stuff we need to do to get it. It takes more to get Psi Storm than to get HSM, and Protoss players manage that just fine. If ravens had psi storm i'd make them. HSM is not worth getting like 99.9% of the time Why do you find storm so much better than HSM? Is it purely that HSM is an all or nothing ability whereas from storm you get a second or two's damage minimum? I've almost never seen HSM used in big battles where micro becomes challenging and it's harder to move individual units around. Which is the exact situation storm shines in. As a zerg player I'd jump at the chance to land an HSM on a Toss deathball for example.
Every templar, at maximum mana, can cast up to 2 storms and still have 50 energy left over. A raven can, at best, throw down a turret after launching an attack that any unit except an overlord or templar can run away from. HSM as has a cast range of 6, whereas storm has range 9. Protoss can feedback and Zerg can fungal before the Raven even gets in range to do anything.
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People who are saying the raven is a poor spellcaster are forgetting that you probably need to build more than one for it to be effective. If Protoss is going HTs you don't see him get just one, they get 4 or 5 for the initial engagement and keep producing more and more. The same goes for infestors. So if a Terran decided to get 5 or 6 ravens in a game, who knows they might be really decent. They are very effective at harrassing mineral lines with hunter seeker missile as they have the same effect as a storm drop. At the moment people are only building single ravens for timing pushes or mobile detection but I think that mass ravens can be very hard to stop
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As a protoss, if you've ever gone against mass banshee + raven - you know that ravens are amazing. PDDs are rediculous mid game before you can get your HT count up
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On April 29 2011 02:57 FaZe wrote:
As a protoss, if you've ever gone against mass banshee + raven - you know that ravens are amazing. PDDs are rediculous mid game before you can get your HT count up
its banshee that are amazing, not raven.
same usefulness in large battle, but your harrass and mobility is waaaaay better with banshee.
raven is same speed as terran ground army... pathetic.
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On April 29 2011 02:03 thebole1 wrote:Show nested quote +Siege tanks not one shotting zerglings if zerg has +1 armor is from bw. They have no reason to change it. i agree but i thouth in siged mode to be from 50/60 dps vs armored unites.....that i forgoth to mentioned...(for sige tanks buff) this topic is not for sige tanks but i link it with this zealot change that is reverted from patchis before.. sige tanks simply arnt efective agenst toss as it should be....and this cange i think will not afect zerg...but its for PTR ofc....
Could you please read what you wrote before hitting the submit button? Spell-check at least...
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On April 29 2011 02:46 CrumpetGuvnor wrote:
People who are saying the raven is a poor spellcaster are forgetting that you probably need to build more than one for it to be effective. If Protoss is going HTs you don't see him get just one, they get 4 or 5 for the initial engagement and keep producing more and more. The same goes for infestors. So if a Terran decided to get 5 or 6 ravens in a game, who knows they might be really decent. They are very effective at harrassing mineral lines with hunter seeker missile as they have the same effect as a storm drop. At the moment people are only building single ravens for timing pushes or mobile detection but I think that mass ravens can be very hard to stop
I agree with Raven being a good spellcaster with neat spells (well, dunno about HSM, never seen it in that great use)
But compared to HT, raven is little bit more costly on gas and minerals than HT. It also has longer build time, meaning it takes longer to produce and to replace your dead ravens, so it is pretty hard to start massing them, because you more likely need your starports producing vikings and medivacs, maybe even banshees, instead of ravens.
Not only that you need gas for your ground army and possible upgrades too, so there is not that much space to build a lot of ravens.
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On April 29 2011 03:17 willoc wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2011 02:03 thebole1 wrote:Siege tanks not one shotting zerglings if zerg has +1 armor is from bw. They have no reason to change it. i agree but i thouth in siged mode to be from 50/60 dps vs armored unites.....that i forgoth to mentioned...(for sige tanks buff) this topic is not for sige tanks but i link it with this zealot change that is reverted from patchis before.. sige tanks simply arnt efective agenst toss as it should be....and this cange i think will not afect zerg...but its for PTR ofc.... Could you please read what you wrote before hitting the submit button? Spell-check at least...
Show a little sympathy. He's from Serbia, I doubt English is his first language.
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+ Show Spoiler +On April 29 2011 02:38 dudeman001 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 29 2011 01:12 Silkath wrote:On April 29 2011 00:57 Deadlyfish wrote:On April 29 2011 00:53 Kyadytim wrote:On April 28 2011 23:36 BLinD-RawR wrote:
no they are not.Autoturret is uselss unless you drop like 3 or 4,PDD is borderline.HSM...noone even uses HSM now that it was nerfed....HSM should be imba for all the stuff we need to do to get it. It takes more to get Psi Storm than to get HSM, and Protoss players manage that just fine. If ravens had psi storm i'd make them. HSM is not worth getting like 99.9% of the time Why do you find storm so much better than HSM? Is it purely that HSM is an all or nothing ability whereas from storm you get a second or two's damage minimum? I've almost never seen HSM used in big battles where micro becomes challenging and it's harder to move individual units around. Which is the exact situation storm shines in. As a zerg player I'd jump at the chance to land an HSM on a Toss deathball for example. Every templar, at maximum mana, can cast up to 2 storms and still have 50 energy left over. A raven can, at best, throw down a turret after launching an attack that any unit except an overlord or templar can run away from. HSM as has a cast range of 6, whereas storm has range 9. Protoss can feedback and Zerg can fungal before the Raven even gets in range to do anything.
Storm's range is 6 in SC2.
HSM is underrated IMO, you have to consider the positioning damage it does by forcing the enemy to either take it or to retreat. He can try to micro away the targeted unit, but that'll add to the mental pressure (and deal potential damage by distracting him from other tasks).
In a few years as the game matures, I'm sure we'll see ravens in almost every match up in the late game. I don't think HSM will be like psi storm in the sense that it will never be Terran's main dps, but it certainly has great potential yet unexplored as a support unit. (speshil taktiks!)
I think they could tweak the stats so that it does slightly less damage but cost 100 energy only, that'll make it more interesting and more encouraging to use.
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EPT
