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On April 23 2011 13:22 LUE.Leoj wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2011 13:19 Ruyguy wrote:
For me it's going to come down to the players actually playing on that day. For example, tomorrow's IPL lineup/players aren't my favourite, so I'm going to watch MC and Select play tomorrow in the NASL. I'm going to give the NASL $25 just because I can, no I'm not going to watch all the VOD's, I might even watch IPL more than NASL, but the only way for e-sports to grow is for the community contribute. It can't always be free TSL, free IPL, free showmatches forever. 1. Get tons of viewers for free events 2. Show sponsors advertising opportunity 3. ??? 4. Free event forever and make money for org running it
thats exactly what ive been saying so often in the various nasl threads.
you dont grow things by cutting out tons of potential viewers. NASL is maybe the worst concept for "growing" esports overall. i cant tell my buddy "hey that nasl match was awesome! check this vod!". instead the "hardcore" part of the community gets forced to pay.
esports has to get more people into it and build a solid foundation. if it only can work if tons of people blindly throw money at it then its not ready yet.
On April 23 2011 19:41 B.I.G. wrote:
yeah dual casting would be mo fun.. and also i feel its a bit of a shame there are no EU/KOR players but i suppose we already have nasl and tsl for cross realm tournaments..
this season is pretty much a test season. playpool will be way different and more open season2. also they already said they are def considering to more/all dualcasting for season2. :>
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Loving this league so far. Only issue i have was the obvious syncing issues in the iNcontrol vs Spades VoDs. Caster's replay was ahead of what we were seeing, and we could hear their computer's sound i think, which was ahead of the sound of what we were seeing.
This is the most important issue when not casting live, syncing HAS to be perfect .... everything else looks really good! not a huge HD fan but i thought he did pretty good with painuser.
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CatzPyjamas or whatever his name is was absolutely incredible, honestly one of the most soothing voices ever. Seriously, it sounded as if I was listening to an advertisement.
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Are only game 1 of each sets available?
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On April 23 2011 20:54 KaiserJohan wrote:
Are only game 1 of each sets available?
nope. had some issues finding them at first too.
http://www.ign.com/ipl/videos
when you click on a video you should be able to choose all the game from the bottom of the popup. looks like the transparency is f'ed up tho so you'll have to full screen it to not see the flash or use an adblocker i guess. double click the video to go full screen.
Note to the developers: fix the wmode on your flash ad and fb plugin ^_^
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I dont know if this has been said already or even if its already in effect, but i think it would be awesome if the VODs could be added to YouTube. I think it would attract even more new fans to the scene with the VODs coming straight from the most recognised gaming site on the net.
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I really dislike IGN's popup flash video plugin, I would've much preferred it to be embedded into an actual page so I could scale it as I wanted to. That, and for some reason, Ant downloader doesn't recognize the FLV's playing in IGN's setup...><
EDIT: Since the VODs are free, why don't they offer downloads or something? I can't stand watching VODs in embedded players at all, and since there's no issue of piracy for free content, I would really like a download link...I like my VOD's to-go.
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On April 23 2011 21:13 Project Psycho wrote:
I dont know if this has been said already or even if its already in effect, but i think it would be awesome if the VODs could be added to YouTube. I think it would attract even more new fans to the scene with the VODs coming straight from the most recognised gaming site on the net.
We are able to upload the first of each series to our Youtube channels.
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+great production (obviously)
-'meh' player pool
+mostly good casters
-total biscsuit
+free vods
-live broadcast at 2am/3am in europe
Overall i'm much more impressed than i originally anticipated. I hope they added better players for season two though. A lot of the games are pretty uninteresting to me, although having the results spoiled probably didn't help.
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On April 23 2011 13:22 LUE.Leoj wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2011 13:19 Ruyguy wrote:
For me it's going to come down to the players actually playing on that day. For example, tomorrow's IPL lineup/players aren't my favourite, so I'm going to watch MC and Select play tomorrow in the NASL. I'm going to give the NASL $25 just because I can, no I'm not going to watch all the VOD's, I might even watch IPL more than NASL, but the only way for e-sports to grow is for the community contribute. It can't always be free TSL, free IPL, free showmatches forever. 1. Get tons of viewers for free events 2. Show sponsors advertising opportunity 3. ??? 4. Free event forever and make money for org running it
100% agree. The question is whether the market is big enough to have those sponsors. Free streaming is a great thing to have especially in NASL's case because they re-stream for Europeans. Only the hardcore fans pay money for the VODs. And I think free VODs are more important than leagues realise.
It's a bit selfish from me because I am not a player but I think MC wouldn't be upset with 30k less for a GSL win, but 40% more viewers. Tastosis says the subsription money goes to sustaining the service, but putting it on youtube would cost nothing. In my opinion something like the GSL would f*ing explode on youtube with proper promotion.
Then again I don't think GSL, NASL organisers are too stupid to see what what people at TSL and IPL see. It must be something what we don't know.
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Yeah I saw videos related to the league but imo it's pretty messed up and hard to navigate. It should be easier to find each game of each set, like group game 1, 2 and 3 together.
Also EGIdra vs Drewbie game 2 dosn't exist...?
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I must say the production values really are shiny.
Despite what I've heard about justin.tv and europe I've been able to watch at 1080p smoothly. Well except for that once when all of justin.tv went down but that's another matter.
The cartoon versions of the players were a nice stylistic touch in contrast to GSL's short clips of people in black backgrounds making fighting poses.
No complaints on the sound, things were done well.
Then it comes down to players and casters. Unfortunately despite all the positives, with the limited time available to me I just don't see myself watching IGN anytime soon except semis/finals because there just isn't enough star power (biased perspective). Now I know this is a trial run but I really hope IPL get some more really good players in and/or revise the not inviting europeans and koreans thing. To me it just seems like such a shame to have such a great production and not milk it more.
Regarding casters, plenty of my friends are hating on some for their lack of ingame knowledge and I kind of agree. There have been many a cringe worthy moments. I was tuning in yesterday and I heard a solo caster with a completely monotonous voice do a play by play of complete deadtime for I don't know how long. It was so boring I just switched to doing something else. I'm sorry I don't even know who it was. Atleast TB and DJWheat can fake enthusiasm properly.
It's not exactly everyone that has such a positive and bubbly voice. I think it has been a great disservice to both of them that they weren't paired with an analytical caster. I don't expect grandmaster player experience from any of them but if they were to improve their in game knowledge and reduce the amount of wait whut moments they'd be great casters.
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On April 23 2011 21:30 KaiserJohan wrote:
Yeah I saw videos related to the league but imo it's pretty messed up and hard to navigate. It should be easier to find each game of each set, like group game 1, 2 and 3 together.
Also EGIdra vs Drewbie game 2 dosn't exist...?
+ Show Spoiler +There were only two games if I remember correctly. They might have mislabeled g2 as g3.
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On April 23 2011 20:30 pStar wrote:
CatzPyjamas or whatever his name is was absolutely incredible, honestly one of the most soothing voices ever. Seriously, it sounded as if I was listening to an advertisement.
I didn't like his commentary at all. He had nothing to talk about most of the time, just stating the obvious: "He's building pylon at 9. Now gate at 13. He's moving out."
TB did better job than i expected, DjWheat is ok and HD+Painuser worked very well because its 2 casters and one of them is pro gamer, but that guy you are talking about... after first game with his commentary i muted the stream and turned my music on, because he wasn't giving any information whatsoever.
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IGNProLeague is really amazing. It has a chance to attract many new ppl to the scene. Especially TotalBiscuit is awesome when it comes to get new ppl excited about the games, all the friends I show some games love him. Other casters are really good too. (Really was impressed by the good analysis from Painuser)
Really good concept, I love it so far. (despite for some problems i have with the embedded player on the website)
We dont really need to compare to NASL. They have some problems, but all in all I think NASL with its huge player-pool and awesome tournament system (divisions...) will absolutly end up beeing a great League as well.
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On April 23 2011 21:26 dubRa wrote:Show nested quote +On April 23 2011 13:22 LUE.Leoj wrote:On April 23 2011 13:19 Ruyguy wrote:
For me it's going to come down to the players actually playing on that day. For example, tomorrow's IPL lineup/players aren't my favourite, so I'm going to watch MC and Select play tomorrow in the NASL. I'm going to give the NASL $25 just because I can, no I'm not going to watch all the VOD's, I might even watch IPL more than NASL, but the only way for e-sports to grow is for the community contribute. It can't always be free TSL, free IPL, free showmatches forever. 1. Get tons of viewers for free events 2. Show sponsors advertising opportunity 3. ??? 4. Free event forever and make money for org running it 100% agree. The question is whether the market is big enough to have those sponsors. Free streaming is a great thing to have especially in NASL's case because they re-stream for Europeans. Only the hardcore fans pay money for the VODs. And I think free VODs are more important than leagues realise. It's a bit selfish from me because I am not a player but I think MC wouldn't be upset with 30k less for a GSL win, but 40% more viewers. Tastosis says the subsription money goes to sustaining the service, but putting it on youtube would cost nothing. In my opinion something like the GSL would f*ing explode on youtube with proper promotion. Then again I don't think GSL, NASL organisers are too stupid to see what what people at TSL and IPL see. It must be something what we don't know.
imo sc2 advertising is pretty much the most effective you can get as a company. you hit right into your target group , get TONS of views, get a nice image and its not that expensive.
and esports/leagues can work well without forcing people to spend big money on it. look at esl. they do their stuff for years across several games with free vods and a very cheap premium service which gives acces to HQ stream/vods.
tbh im not sure why nasl decided against it. maybe they thought "gsl does it, why cant we?" or they desperatly needed money or whatever. but imho thats one of the mainreasons why nasl is declining while IGNleague is exploding. one is a free high quality testphase of a "communityleague" that you can watch whenever you want while the other is a costly very bumby testphase of a "businessleague".
ofcourse i realize both(all leagues) are business in the end. but the feel and perception for the customer/viewer are vastly different between "free lq livestream,pay for evrything else or gtfo", "free lq stream/vods, optional pay for hq if you want" and "free evrything! have fun :D".
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Does no one else worry about patronizing a company owned by Rupert Murdoch? I just can't bring myself to have anything to do with IGN, regardless of how high quality it is.
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The commentators on IGN are terrible; the analysis is virtually non-existent, they simply state what each player is currently doing. Probably the most boring commentary I've ever heard. It also doesn't help that the times I've tuned in it's always a solo commentator which makes it even worse.
I don't really understand why these new leagues don't understand that the most effective commentary is a duo, with one person primarily being the color and the other analyzing the possible strategies that each player is executing. Throw in some amusing banter between the commentators for the downtime when neither player is doing anything that interesting. Is it really that hard to find two people like that? Look at almost any professional sport and that's what they do.
The production quality is the best I've seen from a non-Korean tournament, it's just too bad that its weighed down by the commentators.
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I wish people would stop comparing an endevour live the NASL with the TSL and IPL.
they are working from completely different formats, IPL is cast from replays, a week before airing. This means they have a week to edit and encode the videos. They don't have interviews, or analysis on the matches or maps, and no live video of the casters. Thats simply nothing like as complicated as the NASL broadcast which has live casters, casting live games, with analysis and interviews, edited and encoded in under 48 hours for broadcast..... and Friday night's broadcast was almost perfect quality..... its such a shame people give up on things so damn fast these days.
The TSL is similar to the IPL production wise, except that its broadcast live, using replays. But again, no live caster video, only game footage and overlays. Which are way simpler than NASL. Both IPL and TSL are very polished, and awesome, but simply not of the same ambition as NASL.
Short memories seem to be evident in this community, because the first 3 seasons of GSL had a terrible streaming experience and the VOD's took forever to load and were choppy because they simply didn't have the bandwidth they needed. Everyone still paid and stuck with them, they said they were improving the stream and they did..... NASL's free stream is the same quality as the GSL PAID stream, NASL is $25 for 3 months of 25 matches per week, 1080p stream and VODs. GSL is $10 per month and only runs 3 out of 4 weeks in that month, showing a max of 4 bo3 matches per day. People rarely complain about GSL anymore, but it took them 3 months of us sticking with them before they got it right.
If we gave organisations a chance to work out the kinks, which the guys at wellplayed.org got to do with the SC Reddit opens and the SCRI, all of which had excellent production, then we might be more satisfied. Criticism is great, but shouting at the top of your voice how shit something is and then not giving them more than 48 hours to fix everything is just moronic.
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On April 23 2011 22:42 SnuggleZhenya wrote:
Does no one else worry about patronizing a company owned by Rupert Murdoch? I just can't bring myself to have anything to do with IGN, regardless of how high quality it is.
If I let my politics guide all of my decisions about who to patronize, I might starve to death. I'm shopping at Target right now, even though the owners are homophobic jerks. Chik-fil-a is run by fundamentalists, but the chicken sandwiches are delicious.
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EPT
