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How Starcraft could work if it would be real - Page 9

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Telenil
Profile Joined September 2010
France484 Posts
April 28 2011 09:06 GMT
#161
To be honest I don't know the formula to calculate how much gravity slows down the time. With this formula one could check if a negative value for the gravity would lead to a faster flow of time.
Checked that, it would. If you care, the formula is here: http://hyperphysics.phy-astr.gsu.edu/hbase/relativ/gratim.html#c4
I'd find the "energy boost" more satisfying than "negative gravity", but it is really a personnal opinion.
Mass Recall: Brood War campaigns on SC2: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=303166
[F_]aths
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Germany3947 Posts
April 28 2011 17:19 GMT
#162
I think I stick with negative gravitation but I will rephrase that part from anti-gravitation to negative gravitation.
You don't choose to play zerg. The zerg choose you.
Ssoulle
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
United Kingdom149 Posts
April 28 2011 19:54 GMT
#163
I dunno if this is relvent, but Protoss Zealots and Stalkers don't actually die in combat, they are teleported out at the last second by a thing in their suit which recognises when they are near death / dieing.
O.o
[F_]aths
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Germany3947 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-04-30 11:13:11
April 29 2011 09:03 GMT
#164
I think Stalker leave debris or am I wrong?

That Zealots (and Templars) don't die in battle is mentioned in the OP.


edit: Yes, Stalker leave debris when killed.
You don't choose to play zerg. The zerg choose you.
Scryedo89
Profile Joined April 2011
Norway29 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-01 01:59:28
May 01 2011 01:56 GMT
#165
Anti-gravitation force is exploited by a new Protoss air fighter which can create a bubble around a unit and free it from the graviton field of the planet. Since the Phoenix generates just enough anti-gravity to lift that unit, the effects on the time elapsed for the lifted unit is insignificant. Anti-gravitation force used in the drive and turn mechanism also allows extreme mobility in flight and aerial combat.


No, this aint right.
Seeing as if you could "release" somthing from the gravitasional pull of a celestial body Like say "The earth" Gravity pulls things towards it, but we pull the earth towards us to because of our mass, but the planet is so much bigger aka it has more mass so it has a bigger pull on us than we have on it.

For eks. say you hade no gravity ! what would happen ? 1 you would start going away from the earth at a rather fast pace, the earth is not pulling you towards it, and you are not pulling it towards you, you would fly off into space at an alarming rate.

Any tech leap is based of tech / science that is all ready stated, So 10.000 years from now, they still have to use Netwon's laws because they are good at what they do. this is how Einstein proved he's relativity theory cause you can use the mathematics behind newtons's laws to prove the relativity theory, This would be "1/2mv^2" = Ek where m is the mass and v is the velocity, and mGh = Ep, where m is mass, G is the acceleration from the gravity, and h is the attitude measure from a horizontal plane aka 0m on earth. ( Ep = Energy potential) think of a ball at the top of a cliff.

toogether these to form Ek + Ep = E.

If you release me from the earth where would i go ? the earth is moving around the sun, the solar system is moving around the senter of the galaxy and the galaxy is moving towards "the great attractor".
Sup yo ?
Navillus
Profile Joined February 2011
United States1188 Posts
May 01 2011 03:50 GMT
#166
fyi if I recall correctly Protoss don't just have females that can advance highly, I think that they're actually a matriarchal society.
"TL gives excellent advice 99% of the time. The problem is no one listens to it." -Plexa
Satallgeese
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States239 Posts
May 01 2011 13:41 GMT
#167
Hey, I loved reading this, it was alot of fun, but being the science nerd I am, I noticed some holes and have some suggestions that you could implement, ^.^

Caution, wall of text incoming!

Oh, and because I main zerg, they're all focused on Zerg, hahaha.

I'm going to use a spoiler system just to keep everything systematic and organized, ^.^.

+ Show Spoiler +

Radiation weakness.
+ Show Spoiler +
They are also capable to survive very long with nothing to eat. The known main weakness is vulnerability to high doses of radioactivity.+ Show Spoiler +
We don't know this for certain. Seeing as how the Zerg are capable of space travel (refer to the cutscene in the original SC), we must assume that, while the zerg are affected by radiation to a much higher degree (it's space, they have to fly by something radioactive at some point), they are unaffected by it. Maybe their genetic composition is so volatile that any errors or mistakes caused by the radiation are assimilated into the makeup of the being in question or the being is capable of fixing the mistake quick enough to nullify the problem.

Concsiousness and Free Will
+ Show Spoiler +
The zerg leader does have consciousness, any “general”, also called cerebrate, is assumed to be conscious and to have free will at some proportion.+ Show Spoiler +
The Overmind, in fact, did not have freewill. He explicitly states (to either Kerrigan, or Zeratul in a memory, I don't recall) that he was consumed by a complete hunger to assimilate everything and create "perfection" (as also seen by the Protoss. The Xel'Naga were attempting to genetically engineer the perfect race, which was their offspring, the Protoss and Zerg. Theoretically, assimilation of the two together would create the perfect being, but thats more lore, then science, ^.^). Kerrigan's purpose, in taking over the swarm, was to give it free will, so that it might fight against the terror of the Dark Voice from deep space. The Overmind purposely died and gave the swarm to Kerrigan so that he might save the Zerg race that they might continue their goal and achieve "perfection", not because he wanted to save the universe or because he liked Kerrigan. He was following his biological objectives, as defined by the Xel'Naga.

Setting up a New Base
+ Show Spoiler +
The process of setting up the base is so exhausting for Overlord that he loses both transport and creep spread abilities. With the proper evolution, the zerg brood can regain these features.+ Show Spoiler +
If the Zerg are able to regenerate so quickly, than the overlord would be able to, given time, regain his abilities of creep spread and transport. Rather than through exhaustion, we can assume that the overlord already has the genetic information for the upgrades, stored within the "proto-hatchery" and any subsequent larvae. Upon "research" (read evolution, maybe even subconscious research, in the scientific sense), the overlord can genetically manipulate himself (not necessarily consciously), to create physical change that will affect his body. Instead of being the overlord carrying the hatchery, we can say it was the "hatchery that carried the overlord." In the campaign, we saw several biological "drop pods" that contained creep tumors and some units, it isn't impossible to think that the zerg can send a larger pod containing a proto-hatch, several drones, and an overlord to colonize a planet.

Creep and Move Speed
+ Show Spoiler +
Creep is a biologic carpet, covered with biologic goo.+ Show Spoiler +
I like the idea, but the wording is poor. Rather than a biological carpet, we can state that creep is a sort of "skin", or "muscle", for the Zerg, vaguely similar to moss. Creep grows and coats the ground, potentially even creating roots that are capable of absorbing nutrients. Despite its ability to sustain itself, creep cannot extent past a certain limit without overexerting itself (like a muscle needs a point to attatch to on the bone). The creep tumor proves an "anchor" which both promotes creep spread and allows it spread further via allowing the creep to link back up to the parent hatchery and keep itself sustained past a certain distance from the mineral and gas income that keep it alive.

On a side note, heres something you didn't consider, move speed bonus on creep. As seen in the example above, creep could be considered a muscle, requiring an anchor to spread and get stronger efficiently. What we could propose is that the creep is capable of "flexing" itself, making itself tighter and tenser, and in some places looser. The control provided by the tumor and Hatch allows the creep to "flex" only in certain spots, for example, under the feet of certain units. Using their innate telepathic communication, zerg ground units could be capable of commanding the creep to flex and propel them forward when they walk.

Telepathy and Supply Cap
+ Show Spoiler +
It is not yet fully understood how this telepathic link from Overlords to their underlings works.+ Show Spoiler +
Yes it is. Thats what the psi emitter was designed and built for, thats what the hive mind emulator was designed and built for, and thats what the psi disruptor from the first campaign was designed and built for. To modern science we could say... Well, this is a bit of a stretch, but it would be suitable. First the concept. Einstein proposed that there existed a quantum anomaly among certain particles in space. Among these particles, there existed a complete and definite link that allowed for instantaneous and complete control over both particles, while only having direct physical control over one, of the two. Example: Take two baseballs with this quantum connection. One of the baseballs happens to be on the other side of a field on the ground, while the other is in front of you, at your feet. Now pick up the ball at your feet. On the other side of the field, you would observe that the ball was also lifted off of the ground, with nothing to actually lift it. The ball on the other side of the field lifted because the ball you had, lifted. Were you to throw that ball, the other ball would follow the exact same pattern, also getting thrown, once again, by nothing.

Now expand this concept to space. It is possible that the Overmind, or swarm leader, has several of these such particles within its body, and is somehow capable of controlling them physically. Moving down one rung on the zerg heirarchy, the cerebrates have their own set of these particles. One of the particles goes directly to the Zerg leader, the Overmind. The rest go to the next layer of the rung, the Queen, which has its own set, one to the cerebrate, and the rest to overlords, and the overlords to the bottom rung, the actual units of the swarm. Using this model, we can create a tree demonstrating the control of zerg units. The physical movement of the particle could be interpreted by the body of the creature hosting it, allowing for instantaneous knowledge based on a language within ones own body.

By extending this idea, we can also explain why the zerg can only populate a planet to "200 supply". Scientifically speaking, these particles are incredibly difficult to find and are hardly understood in modern physics. As such, we can assume that the Zerg cerebrates, Queens, and overlords can only maintain a certain amount, simply due to the scarcity of this particle. Now take two planets, one in which the zerg conquers the planet in 200 supply, and one in which the zerg conquer the planet in 400 supply. The planet that conquers in 200 supply only spends 200 supply worth of resources AND only takes up 200 supply worth of the particle. The 400 supply planet consumes twice as much of both resources and quantum "supply", leading it to be half as efficient, and by consequence, half as perfect. As such, we can see the Zerg Brood viewing the 400 supply planet to be superfluous and a waste, why send 400 supply worth of quantum "supply" to one planet, when you could send 200 "supply" of a more efficient brood to two planets.

Larvae and Buildings
+ Show Spoiler +
The upgrowth of a larva to a zerg is amazingly fast. To begin the process, the genetic code of the desired unit taken from the proper structure which breeds those genetic sequences. As the larva itself does not contain all the necessary DNA to start the evolution process, the hatchery clones the DNA strand inside the structure itself to replicate more strands for further production, while injection into the larva starts the evolution to the specific unit that is encoded in the DNA. This replication is mitosis which does not require sex cells, as we have yet to see "female" zergs except queens.+ Show Spoiler +
I believe that somewhere, it was stated that the zerg larvae actually do have all of the DNA of all of the races, buildings, and upgrades in the zerg race within them. However, the physical implementation of such a being utilizing all of this DNA at once would truly be horrific (see Overmind). Instead, we can see that larvae containing an abbreviated section of the DNA and only utilizing a certain portion to keep itself simple and alive (as a worm). The drone, in creating a building, "expands" upon the basic information that is already there. As an example, imagine an archive on a computer. To save space, the archive is small and compressed, but by taking time and using a pattern to expand upon information that is not explicitly stated, you can recreate the uncompressed end product. As such, we can see the zerg buildings providing the complete genetic code for the actual units, and upon their completion, they allow the zerg larvae to become the units using the completed DNA from the buildings. This is why the larvae can become any unit that it has the complete DNA code for, even without the need for a hatchery.

Research and Upgrades
+ Show Spoiler +
As basic as a zergling is, it can evolve its legs to run faster. It also growths some wings which proves that the zergling evolution is still in progress. Zerg experts are discordant about the question if further evolved zerglings will ever be able to flutter for longer distances. + Show Spoiler +
On the topic of "research and upgrades". It is not necessarily evolution that creates the wings or changes a lings claws to do more damage, that genetic information is already there in the spawning pool, but just needs "extraction" from the building. In its most basic form, the zergling is capable of physically altering itself by assimilating the completed DNA from the building upon completion of its "research". This is true for all Zerg units.

Queens
+ Show Spoiler +
It is just enough to control a single queen to suppress her instinct of self preservation.+ Show Spoiler +
This is just a tiny tiff, but queens may not even have an instinct of self preservation. She may be physically dedicated to that task, and more than willing to sacrifice herself for the swarm. Self-preservation implies free will, and the only Zerg with that capacity that we know of is Kerrigan.



Anyways, sorry I completely overanalyzed this thread haha, its 5 Am, i'm kind of drunk and can't really sleep, so this is my method of calming myself for the night, ^.^

Keep up the great work with the thread and I look forward to your next updates, xD!

A good player practices until he gets it right. A great player practices until he can't get it wrong.
[F_]aths
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Germany3947 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-01 16:26:56
May 01 2011 16:07 GMT
#168
Thank for anyone who pointed out some lesser or greater holes. I will try to fix as many of them as i can, doing so step by step. I credited the posting from Scryedo89 and Satallgeese in the OP even thought the OP will change over the course of the next days and not just reworked in a blink.

Edit: Some of Satallgeese's explanations are so good that I include them with little modifications to keep the structure of the OP. But I don't rush it because I need some time to think it through how I can fix the holes without making the OP too complicated.
You don't choose to play zerg. The zerg choose you.
SmoKim
Profile Joined March 2010
Denmark10304 Posts
May 01 2011 18:46 GMT
#169
thanks to Chill for mentioning this thread awesome read!
"LOL I have 202 supply right now (3 minutes later)..."LOL NOW I HAVE 220 SUPPLY SUP?!?!?" - Mondragon
Dragom
Profile Joined December 2010
194 Posts
May 01 2011 19:31 GMT
#170
One correction the Hercules transport is acutally a class of Battlecruiser

The battlecruisers from Sc1 were Behemoth class

the battlecruisers from Sc2 are minotaur class. However, In Lord the Hercules class Battlecruisers are often used
"The second thing to go is your memory...ergh, I can't remember what the first thing is..."
Dragom
Profile Joined December 2010
194 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-01 20:19:44
May 01 2011 20:12 GMT
#171
The green "healing beam" of a medivac is actually wireless energy transfer which enables the combat suit to provide first aid provisions. Because medivacs play a crucial role in supporting our men at the front, they must be deployed with no delay. In this haste, the energy supply of the medivac was compromised. To get the full potential out of the flying field kit, engineers can use the tools in the starport tech lab to improve the medivac equipment for additional starting energy. Of course only newly assembled medivacs get the extra initial capacity


Your explanation does not explain how Zerg units are affected by the medivacs healing beam, heres an alternate explanation

Medivac's Wireless energy transfer works by sending energy directly to individual cells that allow amplifying the clotting process greatly and rushing mitosis for the cells that would otherwise have to take hours to finish mitosis. his Wireless energy transfer also repairs basic armor, such as for suits of Terran infantry and Zealots.

I like the idea, but the wording is poor. Rather than a biological carpet, we can state that creep is a sort of "skin", or "muscle", for the Zerg, vaguely similar to moss. Creep grows and coats the ground, potentially even creating roots that are capable of absorbing nutrients. Despite its ability to sustain itself, creep cannot extent past a certain limit without overexerting itself (like a muscle needs a point to attatch to on the bone). The creep tumor proves an "anchor" which both promotes creep spread and allows it spread further via allowing the creep to link back up to the parent hatchery and keep itself sustained past a certain distance from the mineral and gas income that keep it alive.

On a side note, heres something you didn't consider, move speed bonus on creep. As seen in the example above, creep could be considered a muscle, requiring an anchor to spread and get stronger efficiently. What we could propose is that the creep is capable of "flexing" itself, making itself tighter and tenser, and in some places looser. The control provided by the tumor and Hatch allows the creep to "flex" only in certain spots, for example, under the feet of certain units. Using their innate telepathic communication, zerg ground units could be capable of commanding the creep to flex and propel them forward when they walk.


if the creep can flex itself, then why doesn't an Overlord command it to flex under something such as a Marine(tripping a Marine lol)
"The second thing to go is your memory...ergh, I can't remember what the first thing is..."
TedJustice
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Canada1324 Posts
May 01 2011 20:22 GMT
#172
On April 20 2011 16:33 Telenil wrote:
Excellent post, I always enjoy that sort of guesswork.

Since this post is about physics, maintaining the suspension of disbelief and the such:
it sounds a bit strange to have a fully functionnal combat shield built on the field from spare parts. I don' t know, could the gear be brought to the soldiers by untrained military personnel or something of the sort?

Here's my theory. The combat shields are already in the suits of marines, but they use a special technology that deflects damage. This technology requires a different calibration on every planet, or it could malfunction and explode, which is what's going on when you research combat shields. Once calibration is done, marines can safely pull the shields out of their suits.
MindRush
Profile Joined April 2010
Romania916 Posts
May 01 2011 21:14 GMT
#173
nice read, but the zerg section explains just how drones create buildings on creep. From your explaination, hatcheries can only be built on creep, or by the initial overlord. Please make a plausible statement that a drone morphing into a hatchery gets extra energy from the 300 minerals or something and creep is not needed for initial building placement.
"Two things are infinite: the universe and human stupidity; and I'm not sure about the universe." - Albert Einstein
Dragom
Profile Joined December 2010
194 Posts
May 01 2011 23:29 GMT
#174
On April 22 2011 22:18 Scryedo89 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 20 2011 05:27 [F_]aths wrote:


The original zerg were genetically engineered by the Xel’Naga, an obviously extremely powerful race which is now believed to extinct. Most zerg units are believed to have little – if any – consciousness. The zerg leader does have consciousness, any “general”, also called cerebrate, is assumed to be conscious and to have free will at some proportion. The current structure of the zerg as a whole is unclear as the Overmind was killed an replaced by an infested terran “ghost” (special psi operative.)

Zerg infestations were sighted anywhere in the Koprulu sector, demonstrating space-traveling capabilities. Overlords are propably in a state of hibernation during the travel. The cold in the space drastically reduces their heartbeat. Additional zerg genes are capsuled into an extremely contaminous virus transported in his ventral sacs. This explains the small infrared footprint, able to slip through Terran sensor technology. Once the destination has been reached, the light provided by the nearest star alarms certain nerves of the Overlord to wake up. Native lifeforms of the destination planet can be used as host for the virus and feed the zerg with their own lifes. Anyone infested by zerg will be thankful to die.



The "stated" fact about the flight that the zerg does while in transit between solar systems / planets are more in line of a warp / bending of space to allow faster than light "flight".

The "normal" strain of Zerg has a natural (evolutionary path) resistance against almost every kinda of pressure, vacuum, but are weak against Radiation
( Does not say what kind, but i am gone take a wild guess and Alpha and beta + gamma radiation are dangerous, but to what limits there are no info atleast not that i have seen),
if your gone include this, you might want to shorten it down a bit cause it is way technical.

There is also some very interesting parts about the zerg if you read "kerrigans" bio.

Sources:
Zerg wikia
Web archive from Starcraft BW, blizzard.
Kerrigan swarm.









Actually the zerg cannot create warp rifts, rather, these warp rifts exist in many places throughout space and when the zerg attacked the Xel' Naga Worldship back in Zerus, they learned where these rifts were
"The second thing to go is your memory...ergh, I can't remember what the first thing is..."
Satallgeese
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States239 Posts
May 02 2011 00:29 GMT
#175
Sweet, glad you liked the input, ^.^

And yeah, everything is going to have some holes in it, but I'm just alot more satisfied with the general look of things now, haha! Also, feel free to take your time, I don't even care if you use any of my input, ^.^, I was less then sober at the time of writing, hahaha.

Keep up the great thread and the great work, loving everything!
A good player practices until he gets it right. A great player practices until he can't get it wrong.
Jred
Profile Joined March 2011
United States27 Posts
May 02 2011 01:33 GMT
#176
wow very well put together and thought out A+
"Personality should be irrelevant. This is a computer game tournament, not a dating show. " - IdrA
HardCorey
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States709 Posts
May 02 2011 02:08 GMT
#177
Queens were fashioned from Kerrigan. They are one of her creations.
Don't Worry, Be Happy.
[F_]aths
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Germany3947 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-02 07:51:33
May 02 2011 07:21 GMT
#178
On May 02 2011 04:31 Dragom wrote:
One correction the Hercules transport is acutally a class of Battlecruiser

The battlecruisers from Sc1 were Behemoth class

the battlecruisers from Sc2 are minotaur class. However, In Lord the Hercules class Battlecruisers are often used
Could you be more specific about the Hercules transport? As this ship comes with little or no defense, I would be surprises if it is a battlecruiser class ship.




On May 02 2011 05:22 TedJustice wrote:
Show nested quote +
On April 20 2011 16:33 Telenil wrote:
Excellent post, I always enjoy that sort of guesswork.

Since this post is about physics, maintaining the suspension of disbelief and the such:
it sounds a bit strange to have a fully functionnal combat shield built on the field from spare parts. I don' t know, could the gear be brought to the soldiers by untrained military personnel or something of the sort?

Here's my theory. The combat shields are already in the suits of marines, but they use a special technology that deflects damage. This technology requires a different calibration on every planet, or it could malfunction and explode, which is what's going on when you research combat shields. Once calibration is done, marines can safely pull the shields out of their suits.
The OP was previously changed to assume that upgrade hardware is distributed by drop pods. These drop pods are not visible on screen to avoid clutter.
You don't choose to play zerg. The zerg choose you.
[F_]aths
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Germany3947 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-02 07:47:42
May 02 2011 07:30 GMT
#179
On May 02 2011 05:12 Dragom wrote:
Your explanation does not explain how Zerg units are affected by the medivacs healing beam, heres an alternate explanation

Medivac's Wireless energy transfer works by sending energy directly to individual cells that allow amplifying the clotting process greatly and rushing mitosis for the cells that would otherwise have to take hours to finish mitosis. his Wireless energy transfer also repairs basic armor, such as for suits of Terran infantry and Zealots.
That is right, nor does I explain how a Queen can heal terran bio units. I kept these holes to keep each race more consistent.

If the Medivac (according to the campaign somehow performing micro-surgery) would act on a cellular level, I would have to explain how that works, and how it gets through the armor suit.

I could make up explanations like that Terrans are genetically altered and now a certain kind of radiation helps to heal on a cellular level. But this would make the OP more complex, too.

On May 02 2011 05:12 Dragom wrote:
if the creep can flex itself, then why doesn't an Overlord command it to flex under something such as a Marine(tripping a Marine lol)
In a balancing sense it is the same (either Marine slower or zergling faster) so I can live with having this not explained. I imagine that the speed bonus relates to the familiar surrounding / ground for zerg units or with giving additional energy through high-energy nutrition which is depleted when the zerg leave the creep.
You don't choose to play zerg. The zerg choose you.
[F_]aths
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
Germany3947 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-05-02 07:46:11
May 02 2011 07:38 GMT
#180
On May 02 2011 06:14 MindRush wrote:
nice read, but the zerg section explains just how drones create buildings on creep. From your explaination, hatcheries can only be built on creep, or by the initial overlord. Please make a plausible statement that a drone morphing into a hatchery gets extra energy from the 300 minerals or something and creep is not needed for initial building placement.
The initial creep is either spread by the initial overlord who lost this ability afterwards or the protohatch came in a bubble with creep or protocreep, so some of it splashed onto the ground and very quickly grew to common creep. Another explanation would be that the overlord arrives with 7 drones and 350 minerals and one drone builds the hatch, but I think that the zerg have faster ways to establish a new base.

The initial hatchery is created without creep as the drone was genetically engineered to have this ability because hatcheries are essential. I will include an explanation in the OP which assumes that the hatchery has a creep-generating organ which functions already during the morphing so when the construction is cancelled, some creep is still left on the ground.
You don't choose to play zerg. The zerg choose you.
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