EPTIf you put 3 lurkers on top of your ramp, you can hold of infinity of marines. There are "hold" units in BW, denying kind of units. In SC2 everything happens too fast, you don't have the time to use all of your skill, apm really. A player who has the mechanics of BW can loose easy to a guy who just has the mechanics of SC2 which makes the game fun and easy for the new people who wanna learn RTS games. But for high level play, this makes for a worse, and not as fun game to play nor watch.
[D] What SC2 is missing? - Page 15
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FlowerBunny
Sweden187 Posts
If you put 3 lurkers on top of your ramp, you can hold of infinity of marines. There are "hold" units in BW, denying kind of units. In SC2 everything happens too fast, you don't have the time to use all of your skill, apm really. A player who has the mechanics of BW can loose easy to a guy who just has the mechanics of SC2 which makes the game fun and easy for the new people who wanna learn RTS games. But for high level play, this makes for a worse, and not as fun game to play nor watch. | ||
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Tyree
1508 Posts
All SC2 is lacking is what Brood War eventually got, expansion and several balance patches spread out throughout the years. Not too long ago everyone was up in arms over Marauders and how they were killing the game yet now nobody even mentions them in any kind of "imba" discussion. Ive been playing videogames since NES, and PC games since Doom 1. I can tell you right now that no game has ever taken eSports as fast as Starcraft 2 has, not even Counter Strike, not even Quake and sure as hell not Starcraft 1. Maybe we want SC2 to be vehicle of esports so badly that we will do anything but considering how Warcraft 3 fared, i very much doubt that. The community rejected War3 as a upgrade to BW and they went back to the true and tried game. In fact the only "failure" of SC2 is to totally take over S Korea by storm, but the same was true for the original, it took an expansion and word of mouth to truly explode. Blizzard has never released a bad expansion, and in many cases the expansions have been so superior that playing the original bare bones game is outright crime! Warcraft 3 is nothing without TFT, Diablo 2 is nothing without LoD and what about Starcraft? How good is Starcraft without BW? It is, imo, a broken game without Brood War and a worse game than SC2 is now. When WoW launched it was easy to see that most of the Alliance cities and quests were designed first, they were more polished and simply "better" than Horde. Same goes in SC2 where Terran and Protoss were designed first and Zerg was last, it shows in game. The same was true for SC1. Blizzard games are nothing without some time and a expansion to truly make them great, their history shows that again and again. | ||
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ch4ppi
Germany802 Posts
I dont see Blizzard bringing more mechanics in the game, but Blizzard is good in listening to the community. Posts like that WILL reach them and WILL influence their decisions. So lets hope they can get some advice from the community and design new units in interesting ways or get very decisive upgrades in the game. | ||
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Angra
United States2652 Posts
On April 16 2011 19:09 Tyree wrote: And yet if SC2 truly is "lacking" how come it has taken eSports by storm? Extreme hype, and a multi-million dollar company pushing it significantly in the direction they want it to go. It's obviously not an awful game, which is why those 2 things have kept it so popular after its initial release. But there's still so much lacking. | ||
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labbe
Sweden1456 Posts
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CScythe
Canada810 Posts
As a spectator of BW, the more one understands the game, the more impressive a lot of the pro level play becomes. SC2 is totally different. It's such a simpler game, there are few opportunities for players to show that they stand out. As a player wins feel less meaningful. | ||
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Dismantlethethroat
114 Posts
On April 16 2011 10:31 Rabiator wrote: Starcraft 2 allows for very tight balls of units in comparison to BW. This results in something like the "fishswarm effect" which makes it hard for a predator to focus on a target. In BW you probably had to look at the whole screen with equal focus during a battle, but in SC2 I would think that you have to narrow down your focus on smaller groups of units ... to blink Stalkers in 2s or 3s, spread out Marines stimming away from Banelings or individually burrowing Roaches. Maybe some of those who have played both games competitively can confirm or deny this. In any case I think the "swarm nature" of SC2 makes it hard to see what is going on if you are simply watching a game. As a viewer you can have the same problem a shark has when faced with an abundance of delicious fish (or a customer in a supermarket filled with too many brands to choose from). This might make it harder for new non-Starcraft-players to start watching the game, because you cant focus on one part of the battle to begin with and then slowly start watching the whole battle. Personally I think the area attacks should be punishing more ... i.e. Siege Tank splash (more damage), psi Storm (bigger area) and Fungal Growth (although Zerg also has the very useful Baneling to force an enemy to spread out his units). Each race should have these "frightening area effects" which kinda give an opponent the choice to either spread out his ball of units and risk less OR to use the ball for maximum firepower at higher risk. Single Siege Tanks dont really hurt right now and only they are deadly only if they are massed in high numbers or are in positions you cant attack. Psi Storm is pretty small and although it deals some damage it is mostly only effective if people dont move out of it. This choice between "spread out army" or "focused army" might make the game a bit more entertaining, but it also has the danger to make it more volatile than it is right now. The AOE protoss damage and terran damage have been nerfed. Seige tanks were far too powerful before they got their nerf. They already decimate TvZ and TvT. If you want more damage, either increase the supply they take, or increase their cost. The OP's post is a tad too subjective. Sc2 and Broodwar are different game. You cannot expect Blizzard to make the same game again and again. That being said, Broodwar did take more skill macrowise, but when it comes to micro, not at all. The thing is in Broodwar there were more special abilities. In SC2 there are a lot of abilities that are useless in most situations (burrow, seeker missile, and now storm etc). | ||
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suejak
Japan545 Posts
On April 16 2011 19:15 Angra wrote: Extreme hype, and a multi-million dollar company pushing it significantly in the direction they want it to go. It's obviously not an awful game, which is why those 2 things have kept it so popular after its initial release. But there's still so much lacking. Hahahahah, wow. Ya, it's all the hype and cash. Good lord, you people. No, it's a great game. I have NEVER been into esports before, and I am definitely not the first to be sucked in by SC2. Here's hoping they make it even better in the years to come. | ||
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jinorazi
Korea (South)4948 Posts
On April 16 2011 19:19 Dismantlethethroat wrote: The AOE protoss damage and terran damage have been nerfed. Seige tanks were far too powerful before they got their nerf. They already decimate TvZ and TvT. If you want more damage, either increase the supply they take, or increase their cost. The OP's post is a tad too subjective. Sc2 and Broodwar are different game. You cannot expect Blizzard to make the same game again and again. That being said, Broodwar did take more skill macrowise, but when it comes to micro, not at all. The thing is in Broodwar there were more special abilities. In SC2 there are a lot of abilities that are useless in most situations (burrow, seeker missile, and now storm etc). i'd have to respectfully disagree with that statement. spell casters were definitely harder. one simple example i can give is templars. before entering battle in bw, i'd hotkey 1 templar each for numbers 4, 5, 6. 3 templars, 3 hotkeys so that i can throw down storms quickly and accurately without having to click individual templars in the midst of battle, i'd click on the rest of the templars manually. this is unnecessary in sc2. this also applies to rest of the races such as defilers and ghosts. as for regular units, players still shine but lacks more dynamic play opportunities. marine vs baneling is a great example of this, but the only one i can think of for sc2. in bw there was marine vs lurker, vulture vs goon, scourge vs wraith/corsair. (this is excluding kites and chases) | ||
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Pwnographics
New Zealand1097 Posts
Watch a SC2 game now - and you'll see how much better it is compared to first year SC1. Give it time - Blizzard knows they've got a lot on the line. | ||
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yB.TeH
Germany414 Posts
On April 16 2011 19:28 Pwnographics wrote: Watch a Starcraft I game 1 year after it's release and you'll see how horrible it is. Watch a SC2 game now - and you'll see how much better it is compared to first year SC1. Give it time - Blizzard knows they've got a lot on the line. because of the 10 years of competive rts experience the players had back then? | ||
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gongryong
Korea (South)1430 Posts
We are talking about SC here. If you cant keep it at least civil please leave or keep quiet. SHAME! SHAME! On April 16 2011 18:24 Xenocide_Knight wrote: Is it? If your user location is correct and you're from Japan, aren't you angry when you read about how the recent nuclear issues are "payback for pearl harbor"? How it's ironic that "we nuked the japs in WWII and now they are nuking themselves"? | ||
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StarBrift
Sweden1761 Posts
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freetgy
1720 Posts
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WhiteDog
France8650 Posts
It's just not the same game, and there are a lot of people out there who just can't accept that. We should more go back to the basic and understand what makes a good esport game, what makes it watchable ? I think it's tension and off the charts situations within the game (I'm not talking about upsets, there are just too many in SC2). Somehow, it feels like SC2's game are more like: IMMA CRUSH YOU or YOU GONNA CRUSH ME. I miss this feeling of "everything is possible". | ||
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Rylaji
Sweden580 Posts
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Angra
United States2652 Posts
On April 16 2011 19:22 suejak wrote: Hahahahah, wow. Ya, it's all the hype and cash. Good lord, you people. No, it's a great game. I have NEVER been into esports before, and I am definitely not the first to be sucked in by SC2. Here's hoping they make it even better in the years to come. That might be your problem then, since you've never been into esports before SC2 is the only standard you have to go on. The only thing I can compare it to is.. think of any extremely popular movies, tv shows, or musical artists. There's absolutely no way that you can say that 100% of them are so popular because of how good they are. There are many, many other factors involved when it comes to making something on this large of scale successful. | ||
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MCDayC
United Kingdom14464 Posts
On April 16 2011 19:35 Angra wrote: That might be your problem then, since you've never been into esports before SC2 is the only standard you have to go on. The only thing I can compare it to is.. think of any extremely popular movies, tv shows, or musical artists. There's absolutely no way that you can say that 100% of them are so popular because of how good they are. Personally I had no idea of the hype behind SC2 when I got into it. I just watched Husky cast a game, saw these amazing things happen, and was instantly addicted. Don't underestimate just how good of a game SC2 is. | ||
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jinorazi
Korea (South)4948 Posts
On April 16 2011 19:37 MCDayC wrote: Personally I had no idea of the hype behind SC2 when I got into it. I just watched Husky cast a game, saw these amazing things happen, and was instantly addicted. Don't underestimate just how good of a game SC2 is. but you have to remember the bar was set pretty damn high by bw  sc2 was succeed or fail deal, they really, really put a lot of effort in it. (it shows, i myself was amazed by its attention to details) | ||
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HuHEN
United Kingdom514 Posts
1. is the ability of units to control space (he didnt mention sentrys though !) and 2. is the tendency of ball vs ball may the better ball win, games, they are somewhat common, at the same time they are becoming less common. | ||
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