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On April 15 2011 13:38 aurum510 wrote:
Kind of unprofessional by MC honestly. Do you see a coach apologizing for calling a hail-mary play in football on the last play of the game? No.
Do I feel his last 3 games vs white-ra were pathetic allins? Yes. Do I think he should tweet about it to the world? No, because he's just feeding the trolls. Whatever happens happens. Did I lose tons of respect for MC for 4 gating 2 of the last 3 games when cutting probes at 20 and proxy 2-gating the last game? Sure, but seeing him respond to vocal people just makes me even lose more respect for him.
That absolutely makes no sense, your argument can only be valid if his moves were considered "hail-mary", and you push that brand onto his moves, which they aren't. By the own virtue of your argument, if 4gating a game deserves loss of respect, whitera went 4gate in first game while MC went 3-gate robo, oh no, should whitera's level of respect suddenly dwindle? And the 4th game, MC actually won it with blink stalkers, it wasn't exactly 4-gate all-in, not that it matters
It's interesting because the very people that criticize MC's games during the series are the very people who are consciously ignoring the strategic rationale and MC's explanations for them. If the games were to be re-observed, whitera did in fact go for same opening over and over again, it was a well calculated risk, but you totally ignore that consciously and insist as other haters/scrubs like yoruself, call it 'no skill' or 'hail mary' (in your case).
Branding things by yourself doesn't make it an factual statement.
It's like me branding you as a "fudge-packing faggot", doesn't mean it's true, but the connotations sure gives misleading implications.
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There is NO CHEESE. If there is a definition of cheesy play....it would not come from a 2x GSL champion who held his status/reputation for dominating his opponents. From what starcraft 2 has shown since its release, players mechanics has less value. Which is evident from the number of upsets you see from foreigners over korean programers. Dare I say, that good strategic play cannot overcome the fact that a single miss click can cost you the game. SOOOO, before i continue to ramble on, this game looks more like poker than chess. Where you see many new faces at the final table every tournament in the WSOP. Which i think is bad direction for starcraft to take in general. You need a bonafide superstar to remind us that this is more a game of skill than luck. At this moment, the closest thing esports has is MC!
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On April 15 2011 13:38 aurum510 wrote:
Kind of unprofessional by MC honestly. Do you see a coach apologizing for calling a hail-mary play in football on the last play of the game? No.
Do I feel his last 3 games vs white-ra were pathetic allins? Yes. Do I think he should tweet about it to the world? No, because he's just feeding the trolls. Whatever happens happens. Did I lose tons of respect for MC for 4 gating 2 of the last 3 games when cutting probes at 20 and proxy 2-gating the last game? Sure, but seeing him respond to vocal people just makes me even lose more respect for him.
You know, it's really telling when you can't even name the builds MC used correctly and yet you still flame him to death (Hint: one of those "4-gates" was 3-gate blink stalkers). Your either have astounding ignorance of the game and of the PvP matchup or you are just completely blinded by your White-ra fanboyism. MC has every right to respond to his critics and his response only confirms what was obvious to the rest of the unbiased world: White-ra was opening greedily (for PvP) in EVERY game and once he realized it, MC made the best decisions possible to counter that style of play. Do you really expect white-ra to not be punished for doing so? There is nothing pathetic about playing to win the game.
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I think I've seen all of MC's games on the GSL and when he is in a zone, he plays as if he was inside his opponent's head (MVP gives that impression when he's on, too). He knew White-Ra's build and scouting pattern and he punished him. And to do it with $15,000 on the line is incredible and I'm sure it was completely unexpected.
I just have one follow-up question for MC? Does it clink when you walk? Cause that's what balls of steel usually do.
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On April 15 2011 13:38 aurum510 wrote:
Kind of unprofessional by MC honestly. Do you see a coach apologizing for calling a hail-mary play in football on the last play of the game? No.
Do I feel his last 3 games vs white-ra were pathetic allins? Yes. Do I think he should tweet about it to the world? No, because he's just feeding the trolls. Whatever happens happens. Did I lose tons of respect for MC for 4 gating 2 of the last 3 games when cutting probes at 20 and proxy 2-gating the last game? Sure, but seeing him respond to vocal people just makes me even lose more respect for him.
You're a god damn idiot. Not only did White-Ra do the exact same # of 4-gates as MC, you don't even realize how 4-gating is the standard in PvP. If anything, I gained respect for MC for not using 4-gate more when the entire Korean ladder 4-gate's in 95%+ of the time in PvP.
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Yeah I can't understand how ANYone would BM for that.. MC dominated the last 3 games and he gets my props for that.
Nice msg though, thnx.
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It's not MC's fault that White-Ra went the same opening, not just in every one of the Dreamhack sets, but pretty much every TSL set. Doing a quick check of the TSL vods, White-Ra scouted after pylon only on set 1 of the TSL match. So in all of their official games (I think in the Dreamhack he always was scouting after gateway, but that's from memory and not checking so it could be wrong), that would be eight games in a row with pretty much the same opening and late scouting. Ra did build a zealot in set 2 of the TSL games, but I think that was the only one in the seven from a quick check and memory.
MC's build looks a lot like less of a gamble with all of that in mind. I remember thinking that MC's idea was pretty awesome as he completely outplayed Ra in terms of mindgames and series-play.
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United States496 Posts
On April 15 2011 13:38 aurum510 wrote:
Kind of unprofessional by MC honestly. Do you see a coach apologizing for calling a hail-mary play in football on the last play of the game? No.
Do I feel his last 3 games vs white-ra were pathetic allins? Yes. Do I think he should tweet about it to the world? No, because he's just feeding the trolls. Whatever happens happens. Did I lose tons of respect for MC for 4 gating 2 of the last 3 games when cutting probes at 20 and proxy 2-gating the last game? Sure, but seeing him respond to vocal people just makes me even lose more respect for him.
Anyone with half a brain and any sense of strategic planning in a BO5 can see that 2 gate proxy was the perfect strategy for MC to win the game. Given the previous 4 games and MC analyzing White-Ra's play throughout the series, doing anything else would have had a smaller chance of succeeding. In a PvP with everything down to the wire and 15k on the line what would you do? Would you go for the super volatile "standard" PvP that always seems to walk a razor thin line between winning and losing? Or would you go for the nearly guaranteed winning strategy that will crush your opponent?
I think this showcases MC's mindset as a true competitor and that isn't something that is deserving of less respect, it's something that makes him deserving of MORE respect. Seriously what the hell is this? There wasn't any controversy when Flash proxy rax'd Jaedong in their final OSL match that won Flash his golden mouse. Or when July canceled his second hatch and zergling/drone rushed Best in the game 2 of his golden mouse victory. Why is calculated, intelligent cheese suddenly something that is deserving of such resentment?
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Play to win MC, there is no other way!!! Haters gonna hate!!!
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MC made a great read and had the balls to go through with it in a $15000 game. It was mind boggling and just plain embarrassing to read some of the comments in the LR thread following that.
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On April 15 2011 14:06 teamsolid wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2011 13:38 aurum510 wrote:
Kind of unprofessional by MC honestly. Do you see a coach apologizing for calling a hail-mary play in football on the last play of the game? No.
Do I feel his last 3 games vs white-ra were pathetic allins? Yes. Do I think he should tweet about it to the world? No, because he's just feeding the trolls. Whatever happens happens. Did I lose tons of respect for MC for 4 gating 2 of the last 3 games when cutting probes at 20 and proxy 2-gating the last game? Sure, but seeing him respond to vocal people just makes me even lose more respect for him. You're a god damn idiot. Not only did White-Ra do the exact same # of 4-gates as MC, you don't even realize how 4-gating is the standard in PvP. If anything, I gained respect for MC for not using 4-gate more when the entire Korean ladder 4-gate's in 95%+ of the time in PvP.
Why do you feel the need to call everyone who disagrees with you an idiot? The man has a right to be disappointed by the games. I was disappointed as well, be it Blizzard's fault for the game, or MC's fault for refusing to attempt to play a game longer than 10 minutes.
Starcraft will stagnate as an E-spot if the "top" play produces games of this caliber.
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MC made the right choice. White-Ra did the same opening every time, and MC knew it was forced cross spawns. It was a good strategic decision. White-Ra didn't know it was forced cross spawns, and scouted MC's base really late. If he had scouted MC's empty main earlier, things might have been different. Can't fault MC for that. He's a progamer. Gotta do what ya gotta do
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MC won as the better player. I'd actually have more respect for him if he didn't realize white-ra's opening and did the cheese and won because that takes the most massive amount of courage with 15k on the line, still he did risky builds with massive confidence that he was certain would work and they did. Nobody has a perfect style/build. The way to beat your opponents is to take advantage of their weaknesses, especially at their level of competition.
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On April 15 2011 14:15 Grimjim wrote:Show nested quote +On April 15 2011 14:06 teamsolid wrote:On April 15 2011 13:38 aurum510 wrote:
Kind of unprofessional by MC honestly. Do you see a coach apologizing for calling a hail-mary play in football on the last play of the game? No.
Do I feel his last 3 games vs white-ra were pathetic allins? Yes. Do I think he should tweet about it to the world? No, because he's just feeding the trolls. Whatever happens happens. Did I lose tons of respect for MC for 4 gating 2 of the last 3 games when cutting probes at 20 and proxy 2-gating the last game? Sure, but seeing him respond to vocal people just makes me even lose more respect for him. You're a god damn idiot. Not only did White-Ra do the exact same # of 4-gates as MC, you don't even realize how 4-gating is the standard in PvP. If anything, I gained respect for MC for not using 4-gate more when the entire Korean ladder 4-gate's in 95%+ of the time in PvP. Why do you feel the need to call everyone who disagrees with you an idiot? The man has a right to be disappointed by the games. I was disappointed as well, be it Blizzard's fault for the game, or MC's fault for refusing to attempt to play a game longer than 10 minutes. Starcraft will stagnate as an E-spot if the "top" play produces games of this caliber.
He's probably more calling him an idiot for going as far as to "lose respect" for MC for doing stuff that WhiteRa did as well, and also for "losing respect" for someone when they do something that the entire friggin' PvP metagame revolves around right now. WhiteRa 4gated MC who wasn't 4gating in game 1. Why doesn't he lose respect for WhiteRa? MC also beat WhiteRa 3-0 in the TSL, and in two of those games MC didn't 4gate. Why doesn't he factor that into his opinion of MC? Uninformed opinions + double standards = asking to be called an idiot.
You also must realize that it's the design team's fault that PvP is a 4gate-fest. It's simply the most optimal build for both winning and preventing yourself from dying in PvP, and it's not the players's faults that they've figured that out.
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Cheesing once in a while is fine, it's not like he's combatex and cannon rushes 100% of the time, all the time. Find me someone who wouldn't cheese for 15 grand.
I think I just basically repeated the whole thread, but it's true. We still love you MC, keep slaughtering nerds!
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Play to win, I don't know why he responded like this though. Anyone who isn't stupid and has been competitive at anything in there life know this fundamental rule. No idea why everyone is even hating so much, MC played a complete blinder and gambled everything like that on such a fragile build. The reason MC is so good compared to alot of other players is because he is just so unpredictable, he will cannon rush you and proxy gate you. He will also play a straight up macro game. How can you even begin to prepare for someone so volatile?
Haters gonna hate.
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He's a PRO GAMER and that match was worth $15000. He knew white ra does the same build every game so he simply countered it.
This whole "losing respect" whatever is so stupid I'm laughing irl at you retards posting this shit
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MC's win was 100% legitimate, those who pmed me are just coward noobs who wont give their face because MC can kick their ass ON AND OFF the game.
tbh i feel the proxy was 100% expected on MC, side im kinda amzed white-ra dindt touhgt about the posibility of a proxy in a life or death (so to speak) game, but the winner deserved the win because of good insight in ur oponent, GJ MC gogo
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You see a hole in your opponent game you take advantage, that's a strategic move, that's how RTS games are supposed to be played.... he saw White-Ra didnt got his zealot in any of those 4 games so he went for a proxy gate, perfect move ...It's how you play RTS games by looking and thinking what's wrong in your opponent play, what's he's weak spot.Let's all bm MC because White-Ra didnt scout he's base, didnt made a zealot first, didnt scout after pylon, didnt realized that they can only spawn crossed position.Last game White-Ra did everything bad it's not MC fault for that.
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Cheese is cheese and i never enjoy watching it
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EPT
