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On April 18 2011 22:27 Telefonmann wrote:
@ Greggor
Ok first i thought wow he is right.. they mislabel stuff etc.. but i was talking the whole time about the vods on justin.tv cause i know on nasl.tv theey will be up even later ( linked etc )
But again.. show me where are the Day 5 Vods of Idra etc which were broadcastet last night....
THEY ARE NOT UP.... and the wont be until after the restream finishes....i used your link i am still loggen in with my account on justin and all i see under past casts is a big NOTHING regarding day5
http://www.justin.tv/naslseasonone/b/283940271
Idra vs Socke starts at 1:03:00
edit: I would also like proper VODs sooner, not that userfriendly to look at these unedited stream, but thats what you have to do if you wanna see the games sooner
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On April 18 2011 20:33 Telefonmann wrote:
HIUGE HUGE HUGE problem for me and without that getting fixed there is NO point for me to buy the premium stuff again cause i will keep trying to watch the restream cause its my earliest possibility to watch that stuff...
Played games on MONDAY
Broadcast games On US on Wed
Rebroadcast in EU on Thursday evening
uploading VOds for Paying customer... Night from Thursday to friday..
SO PLAYED on Monday.. SPoiled from Wednesday on (nasl.tv Tl.net etc) and watchable for me on friday if i want the highquality VODs for which i pay...
ARE YOU F....G KIDDING ME?
feel pretty pissed atm
LMAO. I complained about the exact same thing and got banned by a mod on their chat channel!
1) Why should a paying customer have to wait like the rest of the public? We didn't pay to wait!
2) Getting banned on the channel for pointing out the lack of service provided to paying customers without even a warning first.
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On April 18 2011 22:35 StarcraftMan wrote:
2) Getting banned on the channel for pointing out the lack of service provided to paying customers without even a warning first.
No, screw the warning. No one should ever, warning or no, be banned from a chat channel for pointing out a lack of service. Of course it is NASL's right to do so, but they seriously alienate fans with genuine concerns when they do such things.
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Ok thanks ... then it comes down to renaming properly.. sry for raging so hard but i couldnt understand it..
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On April 18 2011 20:17 cnas wrote:
I think there's a point to be made about the perma-bans. I wanna make the connection with blizzard's diablo2. You can make the most horrible things in that game, you can hack, cheat, bot, and you STILL get a warning before the permanent ban. That's because Bliz realizes that even the assholes are paying customers, and they give them another chance. If they just banned everyone immediately for some minor hacking like a color hack, they would lose a whole ton of customers that way.
The reason that TL can ban people left and right (for legitimate reasons) is obviously because they don't run any risk of losing customers doing so. Bliz is a company and afaik they never perma-ban people for what they say on the forums without turning to a temp-ban first.
I do prefer, if not a warning, but at least going to a temp-ban solution.
I think we put up with TL because it's free to use the service. The NASL is not free but they treat their paying customers poorly on the chat channel.
Blizzard has actually thought through their customer relationship process - they have professional forum managers that have been interviewed and screened to do the job. Blizzard probably also provides further training for their forum managers. On the other hand, the NASL is using amateur mods. The NASL is treating their chat channel like the other free streams - they won't realize the mistake they've made until the subscription numbers disappear for season 2.
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Cast the games in the corrrect order.
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On April 18 2011 22:38 KingOctavious wrote:
No, screw the warning. No one should ever, warning or no, be banned from a chat channel for pointing out a lack of service. Of course it is NASL's right to do so, but they seriously alienate fans with genuine concerns when they do such things.
Yup, agreed. There will be subscribers that won't return for season 2. And sadly for the NASL, the subscribers that leave will be really hard to get back.
Easy to alienate a customer, but hard to get a customer back.
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Why is it called the North American Starcraft League? Only the casters are 100% in North America.
And there are too many games, it's too much. For a $50k 1st place it looks cheap. Khaldor's and Amsterdam's set are more professional than this, it's like a basement. Heck, even day9's room is friendlier and gives you a bigger experience depth than this.
It would be a big improvement if the last 16 (whatever) would play live, in booths. I didn't find any info on liquipedia about the final rounds so I'm just assuming here.
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1) Make sure the players actually know the map version that they are playing on.
2) Have a properly + smoothly working stream.
3) Cast outdoors, I spend enough time in my basement to not want to look at a goddamn dungeon.
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I've always wanted the info tab to be cycled through a regularly algorithm so that I as a viewer would eventually see all the possible tabs.
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On April 18 2011 23:00 Geovu wrote:
1) Make sure the players actually know the map version that they are playing on.
2) Have a properly + smoothly working stream.
3) Cast outdoors, I spend enough time in my basement to not want to look at a goddamn dungeon.
1. Whuuut? They don't get to know the maps 
2. yes
3. No thanks, don't want to listen to roaring winds in the mic during an entire cast, they could just use more colours then black and dark blue in the studio.
ps. And paint black on a smooth surface, not on a piece of cardbord with holes and lumbs in it, it kind of shows.
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The fanatical defense of NASL by some is really astounding; sure two of the four major mistakes so far could have been entirely Justin.tv's fault (not that I believe that, but they were entirely stream related), but the out of order spoiler from a couple days ago, and then the out of order game 3? You can't simply insult everyone viewing this objectively as trolls "BECAUSE ESPORTS!!"
The editing flubs point to two things, no prep ("Hey guys, the PvP is the best match tonight, since it's 5 am KST we need to record it first but it's going to air last, be sure not to mention it in any other recording.") and no quality control.
The 'give us time, we don't know what we're doing' excuses need to stop; sure the genie's out of the bottle, but take your time and do it right. You are learning on the job but you don't have to show off your mistakes. If you're going to change the order of the matches as they air, then encapsulate your segments better.
The focus should be to never make a mistake, not to broadcast your mistakes piping hot and fresh. Push broadcasts back an extra day or more, and pick representatives from the teams and reliable community members to proof the broadcast. Give them different segments so that you can sniff out where any leaks are coming from if that becomes a concern. Quality control with a great community like this is a free resource, utilize it.
Monetize your product better. Take five minute breaks and stuff them with commercials. I can't count the number of times Incontrol's been cut off mid-sentence by a commercial (including an incredibly poorly timed 30+ second commercial cutting the Idra interview off as soon as it started in last night), then a break with no commercials (?), and then kicking off another commercial as soon as the next map has loaded. Each of these are simply jarring; commercials supporting the product good, content being aggressively disrupted bad.
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On April 18 2011 22:53 Gargara wrote:
Why is it called the North American Starcraft League? Only the casters are 100% in North America.
And there are too many games, it's too much. For a $50k 1st place it looks cheap. Khaldor's and Amsterdam's set are more professional than this, it's like a basement. Heck, even day9's room is friendlier and gives you a bigger experience depth than this.
It would be a big improvement if the last 16 (whatever) would play live, in booths. I didn't find any info on liquipedia about the final rounds so I'm just assuming here.
It's called NASL because the league primarly is being played on the NA server and casted from NA.
Regarding the criticism I agree on most of the points in the OP. Apart from that I just got to say on thing...
GIVE ME MORE DIGGITY!
Diggity got the casting voice.
Diggity got the non-nerdy look.
Diggity behaves likea professional caster.
Diggity talks likea professional caster.
Diggity dresses like a professional caster.
This impression is the impression I got after seing him cast for the first time. I haven't watched his SC casts before but at the moment when I saw him on the NASL stream I got a serious caster-crush.
Please study his behaviour and consider changing the Gretorp and iNcontroL casting duo and change this to Gretorp and Diggity or iNcontroL and Diggity depending on the matchups. Let Gretorp and iNcontroL act as experts and have Diggity as the main caster.
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On April 18 2011 22:21 woowoo wrote:
Could you add a timer before the next match?
This. Its not very clear when the matches are, if you dont live in that timezone. I understand it says a few different timezones, but its still way easier for a countdown. Look at TSL on the mainpage of TL. It doenst say '15:10 KST' or whatever, but its in # days # hours . Its the same for everyone.
That stuff works.
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So far I would say my biggest complaint would be the map pool and a lot of "off" version of maps being used.
By "off" I'm referring to most importantly using older versions of maps and not blocking close spawns on maps with insanely short rush distance
Also casting the games in "order" more than once I've either missed a game due to it being played in the line up ahead of time or a game spoiled because the commentators reviewed it during a game that supposedly took place before it.
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I would really like to see a search feature on their website so I can look up vods really easy.
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Thought I would wait to see how things progressed over the week and then post some thoughts.
I have been a little surprised by the overall production quality so far. Obviously it was never going to start off right at the GSL level of production, but I was expecting a higher production level than what we have now. Right now, its a step below every single major competitor it has.
The caster situation I find troubling. I am a big fan of Incontrol, and enjoy all of his content, be it on STOG, stream, or whatever. I have also seen some of Gretorps stuff, and I have enjoyed some of it as well. But on NASL, they just dont have a great casting presence and I'm not sure why that is. Perhaps it is the pressure of carrying a new big league. Or perhaps they are just not a good fit for each other.
As I watched CodeA tonight, I initially wondered how good they were going to be, thinking how hard it has been for Incontrol and Gretorp to cast together. But the hard fact is, DOA and Moletrap rocked it tonight. I was not particularly interested in many of the players, and initially thought I would just watch the first game, but I ended up watching the whole show because they were having a ball, and it was fun to watch.
I have two bits of feedback for the NASL;
The first is that there are a number of simple things that can be implemented immediately to dramatically improve things. Things that will quickly improve the basic production quality, like sound, music and editing / pacing. Set some priorities and fix those first, and put back the other stuff for later.
Second, if the size / number of the problem is an issue, (and Incontrol has intimated that it is, relative to staffing), then use your biggest asset, the community. The NASL is in a unique position for a new business in that it has an army of volunteers who will gladly help out, if given direction. Teamliquid in general (the TSL being an even better example) is a shining example of how the Starcraft community can really contribute to something, and help it grow.
Its important for the community to give constructive feedback to the NASL, because we all want it to succeed, and hopefully things will build and improve and it will become a great success.
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QUESTION: Will someone please provide me an official link that describes the Justin.tv advertising share pay-model?
I've attempted to research this, as well as reaching out to the JTV staff directly, and have been unable to verify anything.
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PLEASE MAKE VOD QUALITY A CHOICE.
I sometimes enjoy watching games on my phone and I download the vods to watch (I payed for it so I should be able to do that right?). It doesn't help when each file is ~500 mb and in a resolution 4x the size of my phone. I know I'm probably a unique case but this is also a huge problem for those in countries where its normal to have data caps on internet. If someone has a monthly data cap of 10GB then they can only watch 20 sets of games through vods. If someone is on a low bandwidth connection then they'd have to buffer for a few hours before they could watch a vod. Simply put, while picture quality is great, sometimes people need to lower the quality for their own reasons and as paying customers we should have the option.
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What im noticing from NASL is they aren't even checking what they encode. I mean its basic video editing. Encode a small file and check it. After that, you can encode the whole thing. Some of this stuff seems to ez to notice. I mean not hearing game sounds?? how hard is that to notice. Low FPS? any video editing guy can tell low FPS in a split second. PAL is 25 FPS, NTSC is 30 FPS. What we are getting on the stream is about 18 FPS.
Whoever just isnt watching the file until its broadcast. They probably notice their mistakes just like we do. The problem is if you are delaying a broadcast...everyone knows you are and they expect more. People expect more because you cant fix it.
if its live and you have low game sounds, well then you just turn it up. if its broadcast and you have low game sounds....you have low game sounds the entire broadcast. If you got 2 days to before you broadcast the file, then get it right! want me to watch them? i will watch them early and let you know all the problems so you can fix them. i wont even charge you for it.
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EPT
