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The Close Spawning Position [poll] - Page 9

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 7 8 9 10 11 28 Next All
ALPINA
Profile Joined May 2010
3791 Posts
May 03 2011 11:44 GMT
#161
On May 03 2011 20:35 DashedHopes wrote:
Wow this is so dumb you need some various maps that may have that ability to not let a zerg be greedy


1. Zergs are loosing games vs. early marine/bunker pressure early games even on largest maps.
2. On larger maps terran can easily be greedy himself - and that's what most high level terrans do.
3. Zerg is at a disadvantage on close pos like meta or shattered, I don't see why race should be at a huge disadvantage on certain maps.
You should never underestimate the predictability of stupidity
Penecks
Profile Joined August 2010
United States600 Posts
May 03 2011 11:44 GMT
#162
Gives me a good excuse to all-in I guess... they're pretty awful though, especially slag pits, I mean I know most Zergs probably have that checked off but, just go look at it sometime it's quite hilarious. The cliff is just icing on the cake.
straight poppin
Tyree
Profile Joined November 2010
1508 Posts
May 03 2011 11:49 GMT
#163
No

Why: Blizzard should balance (or at least try to) close positions. Maps should not be manipulated in ways to balance out the game.

I like that on current maps people have eliminated close positions but it is merely a band aid fix, nothing else.

Unlike most people, i actually believe Blizzard will get it right, especially after HotS and they get to change the game in more drastic ways (1-2 new units) than in typical balance patches.

Close positions produce different kinds of macro games, we just arent there yet where all 3 races can survive in those positions, but i am confident we will be there.
★ Top Gun ★
Kar98
Profile Joined January 2011
Australia924 Posts
May 03 2011 12:18 GMT
#164
I feel that there should be close positions (yes I'm a zerg) but it should only occur occasionaly. Even though statistically it you should only have like a 33% chance of spawning close positions it seems to happen 50-60% of all my games I'm getting close positions (where it's possible).
I feel that while close positions does make certian builds stronger such as 2rax, it is by no means impossible to beat, just pull more drones.

I use spanishwa's build so expanding isn't too much of an issue due to the creep spread, but I will admit is still harder. If I only got close positions on say LT, 25% of the time then I would find it acceptable
BlueberryNinja
Profile Joined January 2011
Sweden38 Posts
May 03 2011 12:28 GMT
#165
Close positions is a part of the game. Just because the majority likes macrogames doesn't mean close position games can be competitive and balanced. It's just that the players will have to adapt more to their environment than play macro every game.
Stef6774
Profile Joined January 2011
22 Posts
May 03 2011 12:30 GMT
#166
i voted no because, its a part of the game and it forces you to do other things that you normally wouldnt. i think its good for the game =)
Do what your opponent does but better
lundell100
Profile Joined July 2010
Sweden232 Posts
May 03 2011 12:33 GMT
#167
On May 03 2011 20:44 Alpina wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 03 2011 20:35 DashedHopes wrote:
Wow this is so dumb you need some various maps that may have that ability to not let a zerg be greedy


1. Zergs are loosing games vs. early marine/bunker pressure early games even on largest maps.
2. On larger maps terran can easily be greedy himself - and that's what most high level terrans do.
3. Zerg is at a disadvantage on close pos like meta or shattered, I don't see why race should be at a huge disadvantage on certain maps.

They're not at a "huge" disadvantage, I don't even see the problem.
BigJoe
Profile Joined January 2011
United States210 Posts
May 03 2011 12:43 GMT
#168
No close positions is fun because if you catch your opponent off guard or unprepared you win the game. I imagine most of the fuss is about the early game, but I see nothing wrong with mid/late game close position spawns.
blackone
Profile Joined November 2010
Germany1314 Posts
May 03 2011 12:44 GMT
#169
I voted "no", even though I'd agree that close positions metal is not a very good thing. I like different styles of maps though, and I like starting positions to matter. There is no point in having 4 player maps with removed starting positions, It would be better to have a 2 or 3 player map in that case. Or just make 4 player maps where close positions are not as close as in metal or shattered temple (not even talking about slag pits...)
ALPINA
Profile Joined May 2010
3791 Posts
May 03 2011 12:49 GMT
#170
On May 03 2011 21:33 lundell100 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 03 2011 20:44 Alpina wrote:
On May 03 2011 20:35 DashedHopes wrote:
Wow this is so dumb you need some various maps that may have that ability to not let a zerg be greedy


1. Zergs are loosing games vs. early marine/bunker pressure early games even on largest maps.
2. On larger maps terran can easily be greedy himself - and that's what most high level terrans do.
3. Zerg is at a disadvantage on close pos like meta or shattered, I don't see why race should be at a huge disadvantage on certain maps.

They're not at a "huge" disadvantage, I don't even see the problem.


They are at a huge if opponent is doing all-in. If toss is doing fake expand into 4/5 gate the difference is really huge, on cross spawns you can get much more units and even then defending is very hard.
You should never underestimate the predictability of stupidity
Jermstuddog
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States2231 Posts
May 03 2011 13:02 GMT
#171
On May 03 2011 21:33 lundell100 wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 03 2011 20:44 Alpina wrote:
On May 03 2011 20:35 DashedHopes wrote:
Wow this is so dumb you need some various maps that may have that ability to not let a zerg be greedy


1. Zergs are loosing games vs. early marine/bunker pressure early games even on largest maps.
2. On larger maps terran can easily be greedy himself - and that's what most high level terrans do.
3. Zerg is at a disadvantage on close pos like meta or shattered, I don't see why race should be at a huge disadvantage on certain maps.

They're not at a "huge" disadvantage, I don't even see the problem.


Close position is basically a 10-20% nerf to Zerg economy.

Think about that... what if your probes only brought back 4 minerals per trip instead of 5?

That is effectively what happens in close position due to the fact that Zerg can't skimp on their standing army.

Now you can't really say having the capability to skimp on standing armies is OP, because larger maps aren't an auto-win for Zerg, they're balanced.

So one of the two has to be wrong, forcing Zerg to have a standing army is either too harsh, or allowing Zerg to freely mass drone in the early game is too easy for them.

Which one is it?
As it turns out, marines don't actually cost any money -Jinro
redux46
Profile Joined October 2010
Canada92 Posts
May 03 2011 13:26 GMT
#172
Absolutely they should be removed. If people still want 4 player maps than those maps should be modified to at least stretch out the distances between bases.

There's a reason why almost all the serious tournaments have already disabled close spawn positions
Sanasante
Profile Joined March 2010
United States321 Posts
May 03 2011 13:49 GMT
#173
In your poll you forget to specify "These Maps" if you want to use your poll results to convince anyone you should clarify which maps.
It is during our darkest moments that we must focus to see the light
blackone
Profile Joined November 2010
Germany1314 Posts
May 03 2011 13:51 GMT
#174
On May 03 2011 22:26 redux46 wrote:
There's a reason why almost all the serious tournaments have already disabled close spawn positions

There's also a reason 99,99% of ladder players are not playing in these tournaments: Their skill level is not even comarable. Not everything that makes sense in tournaments is also good for the ladder.
DestroManiak
Profile Joined December 2010
257 Posts
May 03 2011 13:55 GMT
#175
No
It is much easier to scv all in on small maps
monitor
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States2404 Posts
May 03 2011 14:02 GMT
#176
On May 03 2011 22:55 DestroManiak wrote:
No
It is much easier to scv all in on small maps


Not even this. Small maps make it very hard for Zerg to get past 2 bases (even that) since the rush distance is nothing. Protoss and Terran can be aggressive so easily, Zerg just gets stomped.
Mapmaker & TLMC Judge. Amygdala, Frostline, Crimson Court, and Korhal Compound (WoL).
DestroManiak
Profile Joined December 2010
257 Posts
May 03 2011 14:11 GMT
#177
On May 03 2011 23:02 monitor wrote:
Show nested quote +
On May 03 2011 22:55 DestroManiak wrote:
No
It is much easier to scv all in on small maps


Not even this. Small maps make it very hard for Zerg to get past 2 bases (even that) since the rush distance is nothing. Protoss and Terran can be aggressive so easily, Zerg just gets stomped.


?
Which is why I do not want the maps removed.
gNs.I-Jasa
Profile Joined July 2008
United States211 Posts
May 03 2011 14:15 GMT
#178
need to get rid of any positional advantages! why doyou play a map where you feel like you not at a disadvantage from the start.? it so stupid
vOdToasT
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Sweden2870 Posts
May 03 2011 14:20 GMT
#179
On March 30 2011 08:26 FiWiFaKi wrote:
I want to ask, what difference does close or cross positions on shattered temple make in zvp? As a protoss I'll have a close pylon anyways. I'm personally really enjoy close positions so I'm againsts it... I think it's fine - Until you're top top masters a push arriving 5-10 seconds earlier would have killed you either way and it's way overdone.

If you have such a problem, don't play those maps.


It makes a huge difference. On Shattered Temple, P can expand to the expansion that has rocks blocking it off, and the gold expansion, both of which are between the two players. Then the P can just sit there with his death ball and Z can't do anything to stop it. Not only can Z not stop P from taking and defending those expansions, but P can also launch attacks from them - right next to the Zerg natural!
If it's stupid but it works, then it's not stupid* (*Or: You are stupid for losing to it, and gotta git gud)
Geddon
Profile Joined February 2011
Canada5 Posts
May 03 2011 14:22 GMT
#180
I think the multiple postings from protoss stating that close positions has no bearing, just to enlighten, playing as a zerg in these positions, you don't have the option to either drone or produce army units. You have to constantly do both, since you don't have the breathing room required to spawn an army once your opponent decides to move out.

Being as zerg can't make workers and an army at the same time, this is bad.
Fear the swarm
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