EPTThe Close Spawning Position [poll] - Page 22
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phiinix
United States1169 Posts
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skrotcyk
Sweden432 Posts
On July 17 2011 01:37 Syntaxs wrote: Off of these 3k voting guys are playing 2,3k Zerg? wow didnt thought that there are so many Zerg players are out there. False, I'm protoss and i don't enjoy freewins so i voted yes? many of the "Yes" voters probably think the same way. | ||
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RedMosquito
United States280 Posts
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Angry_Fetus
Canada444 Posts
On July 17 2011 01:46 phiinix wrote: I think zergs should have to adapt their play style to the map, not just the usual macro style everyone expects of them. I think it would play playing on these maps a little more fun, but unfortunately all zergs seem to know how to do is all-in every time they get into these positions. As a terran I voted to remove close pos simply because it's super annoying when 100% of the credit for you winning against them in close pos is "map imbalance" and that it has nothing to do with your skill. When a zerg says "close pos is so hard" I feel for them, but when they say "ef this bs" it's frustrating. How about you play close positions metal/shattered as zerg for a while and try to "adapt". The only viable strat is to all-in, or at least end the game quickly unless the opponent is really bad. Hilarious how you're trying to tell zergs that they are doing it wrong when you clearly don't understand the position they are in. | ||
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Crescend1
Poland108 Posts
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UnitedKronos
139 Posts
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Dissonance23
United States259 Posts
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Ares[Effort]
DEMACIA6550 Posts
On July 17 2011 01:46 phiinix wrote: I think zergs should have to adapt their play style to the map, not just the usual macro style everyone expects of them. I think it would play playing on these maps a little more fun, but unfortunately all zergs seem to know how to do is all-in every time they get into these positions. As a terran I voted to remove close pos simply because it's super annoying when 100% of the credit for you winning against them in close pos is "map imbalance" and that it has nothing to do with your skill. When a zerg says "close pos is so hard" I feel for them, but when they say "ef this bs" it's frustrating. Platinum? What do you mean adapt, you make 1 drone too many and you're dead, close spawns are pretty shit you try playing as zerg. On July 17 2011 01:56 RedMosquito wrote: I dont think they should take close positions away. Currently most of the maps favor long drawn out macro games anyway and its nice to occasionally have some variety. I realize zergs feel that rushes are stronger which is true, but zerg also can scout easier with close spawns (overlord sacking) and can react accordingly. For instance if im playing as zerg close spawns i dont mind taking a later expansion if i can pressure early with roaches. This can actually mess up many conventional terran builds i see (reactor hellion, two rax marines ect.) Overall i think it adds variety to the game and i dont think its super imbalanced. It just requires different builds and a different play style. What league are you in? You've got be kidding me if you think its remotely close to balanced, you ever try playing macro game as zerg on close spawn, no? Well that's because you can't. And have some variety lol, you can have more variety if it's not close ground spawn. | ||
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MeeMeesiko
United States40 Posts
I definitely think that the game would lose a lot of interesting playstyles if these were removed. They are not imbalanced; they are *strong*. Imbalanced mean that the vast majority of the time they will win the game or do damage no matter what preparations you've taken. Close positions are easily scouted and force all of us to change the way that we are playing the game. This is a good thing! Not to mention, there are literally only the two maps in the current Season 2 ladder pool that feature close positions anyways; Shattered Temple and Metalopolis, which us a good amount of variety. Shakuras Plateau has the close position spawns disabled, and the rest of the maps really don't have close positions like these maps do. It's just the way the game is and people need to figure out how to take advantage of them rather than bitch about losing because their opponents take advantage of them. EDIT: Reading the post above me made me realize that Zerg feels themselves to be in a position where they can play a macro game every single game. This is true and it's right for the Zerg. But there are several "safe" macro builds for Zerg, Speedling Expand negates many early threats for their still very early expansion. Choose a different build to play on these particular maps if you feel that you're losing consistently. Blaming imbalance for mistakes you yourself are making is a way to make sure you don't become an all-around solid player. | ||
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Ghad
Norway2551 Posts
The kind of extreme close spawns where you literally just need to leapfrog two times with your siege tanks needs to be removed from the map pool. Edit: We should revisit this topic after the release of heart of the swarm. Maybe that expansion pack will give zerg the tools needed to play a fair solid game on extreme close spawns. | ||
Kammalleri
Canada613 Posts
I love macro games and I don't care what people say about protoss being advantaged in close spawn i any matchup. I like to be rewarded for good map awareness and good scouting, pvz if they decide to all in you notice it at your door same with pvp and pvt. At least cross spawn or close air you have time to react, if you played greedy and went probes and upgrads for a while you have tim to cut probe production and have 2 solid round of warp ins for the attack. Close spawn just makes me want to all in cause they are retaded and not fun to play. | ||
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dhe95
United States1213 Posts
In SC2 with the improved movement AI, the attacker can simply walk into the other player's natural, rarely exposing his army to any attack. In BW, without a good movement AI, an army could be killed moving across the map, just since the movement AI caused units to spread out a lot more. As a result, players would have to watch their army and continuously keep it together, which does buy a small amount of time. But in SC2, the armies move in perfect formation, allowing the army to waltz across the map without worry. This wouldn't be a problem if there were units that could stall a push. In BW, zerg had lurkers to stall marines, vultures would a protoss army from running around the map, and dragoons could easily pick off lone tanks. None of this exists in SC2. There is no unit that can actually cause a push to slow down. There is no unit that causes a timing push to stop for a moment in order to regroup and/or defend. Now, it would be easy to start complaining about how the unit changes caused this to happen, but that's irrelevant. Now for everyone saying to simply scout better, scouting can be hard, if not impossible. Any player can easily hide their units and usually by the time even a good player notices a timing attack is coming, it can often be too late. The problem isn't the distance, but the time. With the lack of opportunity to stall the push in close positions, the only way to fix this problem is to remove close positions. | ||
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vaderseven
United States2556 Posts
Add to that the fact that the only fun these maps offer is abusing imbalance. | ||
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Gladiator6
Sweden7024 Posts
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DannyJ
United States5110 Posts
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Jonas :)
United States511 Posts
I guess 5 gate robo/ immortal could do decently at stalling the inevitable push by picking off creep tumors and attempting to power trough the queen's transfuses by focus firing the spine crawlers and forcefielding away the roaches, but it leaves you really vulnerable to a hydralisk transition. It's tough, and by no means imbalanced | ||
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Kippers
United Kingdom100 Posts
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Ares[Effort]
DEMACIA6550 Posts
On July 17 2011 02:40 Jonas  wrote:Zergs need to stop bitching about closed positions, they just have to accept that thier standard strategies won't work. From my experience in mid-masters, PvZ on closed positions shattered temple the spanishiwa no gas style can hold off any early aggression while droning up comfortably, and it transitions into a nearly unstoppable spine crawler/queen rush. You can't get colossus fast enough, void rays die to 5 or more queens, mass gateway style loses to transfuse on the spine crawlers and roaches. Cannon + building walloff gets picked off by spines. I guess 5 gate robo/ immortal could do decently at stalling the inevitable push by picking off creep tumors and attempting to power trough the queen's transfuses by focus firing the spine crawlers and forcefielding away the roaches, but it leaves you really vulnerable to a hydralisk transition. It's tough, and by no means imbalanced How many points, link to profile please. | ||
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Dearion
Denmark26 Posts
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Jayrod
1820 Posts
On July 17 2011 02:47 Ares[Effort] wrote: What league are you in and how many points, link to profile please. He says right in his post | ||
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