On March 27 2011 03:17 TheSaddestPanda wrote: .... way to ruin a good thread about a nice thing with a silly arguement.
Agreed.
It's a shame that because someone didn't understand the references had to start making demands instead offering actual suggestions to fix it.
Apparently, abstract (and subjective) demands without offering any substance or concrete direction combined with negative tone equates to constructive criticism.
It's a well written song about Artosis' recent time casting the GSL
Everyone really needs to settle down.
"someone didn't understand the references"
That was never up for debate. It was never about whether or not I understood the lyrics... it was about my opinion of them.
had to start making demands
WHAT!?!? Why do people keep making assumptions. I made no demands and I have made that very CLEAR (or so I thought). I said that it was my opinion and that I am fine with him ignoring my suggestions... I just offered my opinion... my god. Where did I make any demands? This is his song and I don't want to spend the time now, but I believe in my first post I said something along the lines of "and you can obviously ignore my suggestions if you'd like because you are the one writing the songs." How is that a demand? My god... you guys are crazy. You don't need to instantly defend him because I have an opinion about specific parts of the song... instead you can actually make valid responses to be discussed.
instead offering actual suggestions to fix it
I am not trying to "fix" the song... and I am not suggesting that he rewrite it. It is a very good song... and I have listened to it many times. That being said, my feedback was to POSSIBLY help improve future songs (sorry if someone thinks any song is absolutely PERFECT, but I don't think so) by offering another viewpoint. I was not just complaining or flaming the song... stop trying to make me look like such a bad guy for voicing an opinion in the interest of improvement.
If everyone here thinks there is absolutely no way the song could have been better then I can understand why this is all happening and no one will ever see my point of view. Feedback is given for improvement, and I feel that IN MY OPINION the song could have been better in some ways. If you think I am a human with rights then you should be able to see that.
Apparently, abstract (and subjective) demands without offering any substance or concrete direction combined with negative tone equates to constructive criticism.
I will quickly respond to the "demands" part again. I never implied that I felt entitled to the song being changed to how I felt would have been best. I offered my opinion... a separate view point... so that the song writer could see it and consider it, even if he eventually ended up disagreeing with it.
As for "without offering any substance or concrete direction" I actually did. I mentioned that I felt the song may have been better without so many recent events and also if it were to focus more on things about Artosis rather than his quotes. I then even provided some possible examples. How is there no substance there? Did you just skim what I had to say... decided I had some opinions against the song and realized that you had to argue against me? Come on. Please back up what you are saying with... something.
"with negative tone equates to constructive criticism" Yes I will admit it got a bit negative as I got more frustrated when people kept assuming things and putting words in my mouth. Getting frustrated doesn't help, but when people continually say things I never said and spin everything in another direction it gets a bit annoying, but I do apologize for the tone. That being said, I was not the only one with a negative tone, and I don't feel my original post had a negative tone (unless you feel that disagreeing with some of the lyrics in the song is... aka having a different opinion... is negative).
As for "ruining the thread" this is just a thread to discuss the song... it's alright to have this kind of conversation. I am not directly ruining the song, and my only intention was to post feedback here, which is what I figured the thread was for in the first place... whether it was to say I didn't like the song for whatever reason, or that I liked it. I actually ended up saying both.
That was never up for debate. It was never about whether or not I understood the lyrics... it was about my opinion of them.
You claimed they were out of place and unnecessary. How are lyrics about things Artosis has said in a song about Artosis out of place and unnecessary? It sounds like you didn't.
I understand it's your opinion that he could of picked different lyrics about Artosis, but the song isn't specifically about Artosis and kenshacorp didn't say it was specifically about who Artosis. You should read the description on the Youtube Video.
WHAT!?!? Why do people keep making assumptions. I made no demands and I have made that very CLEAR (or so I thought). I said that it was my opinion and that I am fine with him ignoring my suggestions... I just offered my opinion... my god. Where did I make any demands? This is his song and I don't want to spend the time now, but I believe in my first post I said something along the lines of "and you can obviously ignore my suggestions if you'd like because you are the one writing the songs." How is that a demand? My god... you guys are crazy. You don't need to instantly defend him because I have an opinion about specific parts of the song... instead you can actually make valid responses to be discussed.
Should = Demand
Could = Suggestion
Didn't you attack him for reading comprehension?
If you want to make a suggestion, you say "I think you could of ... and it would of been better", not "I think you should of ... and it would of been better."
I am not trying to "fix" the song... and I am not suggesting that he rewrite it. It is a very good song... and I have listened to it many times. That being said, my feedback was to POSSIBLY help improve future songs (sorry if someone thinks any song is absolutely PERFECT, but I don't think so) by offering another viewpoint. I was not just complaining or flaming the song... stop trying to make me look like such a bad guy for voicing an opinion in the interest of improvement.
If everyone here thinks there is absolutely no way the song could have been better then I can understand why this is all happening and no one will ever see my point of view. Feedback is given for improvement, and I feel that IN MY OPINION the song could have been better in some ways. If you think I am a human with rights then you should be able to see that.
If you're offer constructive criticism, you're attempting to fix the current mistakes. You highlight the problem and offer a solution. It has to be concrete. You can't say "remove the stuff I don't like and talk more about artosis", not only is that vague and subjective, but it isn't constructive.
I will quickly respond to the "demands" part again. I never implied that I felt entitled to the song being changed to how I felt would have been best. I offered my opinion... a separate view point... so that the song writer could see it and consider it, even if he eventually ended up disagreeing with it.
See above.
As for "without offering any substance or concrete direction" I actually did. I mentioned that I felt the song may have been better without so many recent events and also if it were to focus more on things about Artosis rather than his quotes. I then even provided some possible examples. How is there no substance there? Did you just skim what I had to say... decided I had some opinions against the song and realized that you had to argue against me? Come on. Please back up what you are saying with... something.
You offered an abstract suggestion: "Talking about Artosis himself rather than a bunch of players and recent GSL events would have been better in my opinion." So, things that specifically involve Artosis don't count? The song was about Artosis casting the GSL and the Up and Down Matches (see: ).
"with negative tone equates to constructive criticism" Yes I will admit it got a bit negative as I got more frustrated when people kept assuming things and putting words in my mouth. Getting frustrated doesn't help, but when people continually say things I never said and spin everything in another direction it gets a bit annoying, but I do apologize for the tone. That being said, I was not the only one with a negative tone, and I don't feel my original post had a negative tone (unless you feel that disagreeing with some of the lyrics in the song is... aka having a different opinion... is negative).
It was negative from the start. If you consider saying "I liked it, but..." as a qualifier to take a condescending or aggressive tone, then you shouldn't offer "constructive criticism". I understand that you had the best intention, and I advocate that style of criticism, but it is by no means "constructive" if you don't offer concrete solutions / suggestions.
Wow. So if I agree with the fact that it's not as strong as Tasteless lyrically, it's all going to my head and if I argue for my own case of not reusing lyrics, it's all going to my head.
You know what? Go listen to "Cast that shit" by Rob Hustle, objectively look at the lyrics and tell me that what I did was really so bad that you had to create an essay about the fundamentals of my work ethic and mindset.
lookat boxer, you can maybe out fox him but you could never be better or ever out box him
where the toss at? man it makes me sad nexgenius lost hope and got tortured bad i love tester, but why he changed his name to ssks? wooord to-ya-mothership, huk, best of luck.
From the angle that you're approaching your critique, you're making it sound like I would throw in thousands of references to Day9 in a song about John or Destiny just because it's about Starcraft. If you wanted to divert me off of that path, I was never really on it in the first place.
I'm glad that people are still willing to discuss the song, but I'm more glad that nobody has said that the melody to the song sucks shit or that the mastering sucks shit. That's something I spent a lot of time working on from the feedback I got from Tasteless.
Once again, I'm sorry. I can't please everyone but I'm obviously trying hard to give everyone something that they can enjoy.
First to the other person who responded to my other post... none of it really had validity, but I'll easily respond to the most pointless comment of...
"Should = demand"
I think that you should play a game of starcraft.
Is that a demand? I used the word should in it. Hmm... yeah it's not. Anything in the context of an opinion (which is everything I said) is not a demand. If you interpreted it that way... I'm not sure what to tell you but I promise you I don't feel entitled as I have said many times... but I know that even though I said many things many times you still grasp on to your initial understanding rather than my repeated clarifications.
On March 27 2011 05:38 kenashcorp wrote: Wow. So if I agree with the fact that it's not as strong as Tasteless lyrically, it's all going to my head and if I argue for my own case of not reusing lyrics, it's all going to my head.
You know what? Go listen to "Cast that shit" by Rob Hustle, objectively look at the lyrics and tell me that what I did was really so bad that you had to create an essay about the fundamentals of my work ethic and mindset.
lookat boxer, you can maybe out fox him but you could never be better or ever out box him
where the toss at? man it makes me sad nexgenius lost hope and got tortured bad i love tester, but why he changed his name to ssks? wooord to-ya-mothership, huk, best of luck.
From the angle that you're approaching your critique, you're making it sound like I would throw in thousands of references to Day9 in a song about John or Destiny just because it's about Starcraft. If you wanted to divert me off of that path, I was never really on it in the first place.
I'm glad that people are still willing to discuss the song, but I'm more glad that nobody has said that the melody to the song sucks shit or that the mastering sucks shit. That's something I spent a lot of time working on from the feedback I got from Tasteless.
Once again, I'm sorry. I can't please everyone but I'm obviously trying hard to give everyone something that they can enjoy.
This is just a joke now...
I shouldn't have taken your word for it when you said you are for constructive criticism. It would be doing us both a favor if you could at least admit that. Maybe you can handle some, but much of it you can't.. which is honestly fine. I can't say I am the most easy going guy when it comes to some people pointing out flaws in things I have created.
I'm not even sure what you meant by that first paragraph... but for the second one... "and then tell me what I did was really so bad"
Holy hell. Read this next two lines clearly and slowly.
I enjoyed the song... however I felt like giving my feedback since feedback helps artists improve. I never thought that my opinion was right, or that the song was bad, but it was simply critique which is used to help someone improve.
I really don't know why you are getting so offended... honestly. Stop saying things like "OH YA?! WELL GO LISTEN TO THIS SONG AND TELL ME IF MY SONG SUCKS NOW!!" After I basically said "I like the song but I think if you changed the lyrics here it would have been better."
Again... if that is just too much for you to hear (which it might be, and there is nothing wrong with that) then I apologize, but you have to get used to hearing that kind of stuff if you will be posting your work publicly.
As for the paragraph after the quote... I don't even know where that's coming from... I think you are making even more assumptions now to the point where I can't follow it.
As for saying that you're glad that no one said that the melody sucks (I think it is very good... let me just make that clear right now) that is still something you have to prepare yourself to hear. Just because you spend a lot of time on something does not mean it is good. I know it can be hard to hear especially if someone says it in a rude way... but that goes back to taking criticism in the best way possible. It seems that if someone posted a completely legitimate comment about how they felt the melody wasn't good that you would not take it well, even if their intentions were pure. (RECLARIFICATION: I DID NOT THINK THE MELODY WAS BAD. I THOUGHT IT WAS GOOD.)
Once again, I'm sorry. I can't please everyone but I'm obviously trying hard to give everyone something that they can enjoy.
No need to pull out the "I'm sorry" stuff like I was actually saying something like "THIS DOES NOT MEET MY STANDARDS FOR A YOUTUBE VIDEO!!!" It's quite unbelievable that you still don't understand my intentions after all this time...
I'll try to leave it at this.
It was feedback. It was my opinion. I do not feel my opinion is RIGHT... but I feel my opinion may be useful for artistic growth (maybe I am wrong) I believe that feedback helps people improve. My feedback was an attempt to help you improve from seeing a different perspective (constructive criticism). I didn't not necessarily expect you to agree with the perspective, but simply view it. I do not think you should rewrite the song. I do not think I am entitled to tell you that you should rewrite the song even if I felt you should. I do not think I am entitled to make you follow any criteria for your future songs. I did not flame your song. I did not attack you personally. I do not think that the song is bad. I think the song is good. I enjoy it. I have listened to it many times and will continue to listen to it.
(Directed at anyone involved) Hopefully that is clear and concise enough. Hopefully everyone can read that and recognize those were and are my intentions. If you want to continue trying to interpret my tone or what I may have been implying from previous posts when I am telling you that you are misinterpreting it... then this argument is pointless for both of us.
On March 27 2011 09:32 Chicane wrote: First to the other person who responded to my other post... none of it really had validity, but I'll easily respond to the most pointless comment of...
"Should = demand"
I think that you should play a game of starcraft.
Is that a demand? I used the word should in it. Hmm... yeah it's not. Anything in the context of an opinion (which is everything I said) is not a demand. If you interpreted it that way... I'm not sure what to tell you but I promise you I don't feel entitled as I have said many times... but I know that even though I said many things many times you still grasp on to your initial understanding rather than my repeated clarifications.
Just because in your mind it doesn't sound like a demand, doesn't mean it isn't.
Should: must; ought (used to indicate duty, propriety, or expediency): You should not do that.
Just because you decide to qualify something with "I think..." doesn't exempt you from how to properly use a word. Your sentence should look like: "I want you to play a game of starcraft." Notice how I'm demanding and giving a sentence that places the emphasis on you rather than me?
...
My feedback was an attempt to help you improve from seeing a different perspective (constructive criticism).
...
(Directed at anyone involved) Hopefully that is clear and concise enough.
It seems you don't know how to use "constructive criticism" and "concise" either.
constructive criticism: addressed in previous post, you aren't offering it.
concise: brief, including all important information (it's hilarious you think you're clear and concise)
I think everyone just needs to channel a bit of Tyler and chill.
Ken has given us several songs now all for free and he puts in the time and effort to give back to our community. As a fellow musician I would welcome feedback but dont bash it into the poor guy. For everyone complaining about lyrics and such, why dont you just enjoy the song for what it is.
I challenge any of you to do a better job then Ken. Until then, just chill everyone.
And my 3000th TL comment goes to this thread, because of Ken's amazing ability to produce flawless songs. Please keep it up
I think the current arguing needs to stop Chicane has made himself clear on what criticisms he has, and everyone else has made themselves clear as well. We don't want such a good thread to spiral out of control (or people getting banned) because of a great song that got turned into a flame war.
Anyways. I think the lyrics are incredibly witty, and I can't help but snap along to the beat. I'd clap instead, but I think I'd crash my car...
And thanks for making the downloads free From listening to it so much, I know all the Tasteless lyrics, and now I've gotta get this one down!
Ken, any idea which player you'll be singing about next? I remember in an older thread, you spoiled us with the "A-R-T-O-S-I-S..." chorus for this song (though it was a faster beat) and I was pretty excited to hear the finished product.
You guys have placed me in a funk where I need a little feedback off of previews. What I had was mostly positive so far, but obviously I want you guys to check it out too.
EPT
Chicane has made himself clear on what criticisms he has, and everyone else has made themselves clear as well. We don't want such a good thread to spiral out of control (or people getting banned) because of a great song that got turned into a flame war. 
