|
On April 24 2011 23:06 SKYFISH_ wrote:
The 3rax is neither a rush nor an all-in.
It hits about the 7:30-8 minute mark depending on the map and you can expand behind it if it fails.
The strat is just a very strong one base push but unlike 4G it will NOT get you anywhere near masters as someone claimed. It basically stops working around Gold once your enemies learn to recognize and counter it.
Still a very good build for beginners, since MMM are the Terran fundamentals
I agree about it not being able to take you into masters. In a 3-rax you need stim and concussive to match the effectiveness of 4 gate. But i disagree about it not working around Gold, it's a solid build that will work up to diamond, I know because my terran account is in diamond and I used the 3-rax exclusively.
|
I think the key to actually being better is just by playing more. Obviously watching YouTube video's and livestream's of tournament games are great in improving as long as the casting is equally good. But I'm still unsure if a player should 3 rax jus to get out of bronze and i'm also unsure if it would work.
|
Teaching 3 rax stim is bad for a low level.
Teaching 1/1/1 opener (not rushing to banshee) is a much better way to teach a low level player because 1/1/1 is easily manipulated to go many different builds.
All teaching 3 rax will do is get them out of bronze/silver into maybe gold or plat, and then get them stuck losing all the time. Yeah sure say build scv's and what not all the time, but have them do a build they will likely not just auto win with at a low level. Force the player to continue to macro and sure it might take them a little longer to get out of bronze, but they'll be 99 times better for it.
|
On April 24 2011 22:39 Valkola wrote:
This will be very useful to bronze/silver and maybe even gold players! good job!
EDIT: Seems like a lot of the guys here doesnt understand the meaning of this: it is a really easy build so its easily doable by bronze/silver players. With this easy build and the good basic advice given by the OP the basic mechanics of a bronze/silver player will become better much faster then when he's trying to do many different kind of pro builds out there. Bronze/silver players REALLY suck so they dont need more complicated builds than this to get better.
Im a master league player myself and could see many of my noob friends get better with the OPs help.
So why not teach them reasonably safe fast expand builds or 1/1/1? Retarded one base crap makes the game less fun for everyone. And this one is a really shitty build too.
|
On April 25 2011 01:00 Mercury- wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2011 22:39 Valkola wrote:
This will be very useful to bronze/silver and maybe even gold players! good job!
EDIT: Seems like a lot of the guys here doesnt understand the meaning of this: it is a really easy build so its easily doable by bronze/silver players. With this easy build and the good basic advice given by the OP the basic mechanics of a bronze/silver player will become better much faster then when he's trying to do many different kind of pro builds out there. Bronze/silver players REALLY suck so they dont need more complicated builds than this to get better.
Im a master league player myself and could see many of my noob friends get better with the OPs help. So why not teach them reasonably safe fast expand builds or 1/1/1? Retarded one base crap makes the game less fun for everyone. And this one is a really shitty build too.
I have a good answer: 4-gate/marine-scv all-in/10 pool baneling bust
3rax isn't purely one base unless you consciously choose to play as such. There are a lot of transitions to be made for late game.
|
I personally pull scvs at 5 minute mark and I am im masters league (3700 masters previously)
|
1-1-1 Is more complicated than a 3rax. There is another video of Trump (I can't find it at the moment), but the student he is teaching is a bronze level player I think. The guy is trying to do too much. He was trying to mash 4 different builds together( that he thought of by watching pro matches), and manage drops, and do whatever other fancy things terrans do. His macro falls to shit because of it. So Trump tells him to do this 3rax play. It was the correct solution, because it gave the player much less to think about, so he could focus on scv production, and constant unit production. So he is doing less, but his macro is better because he has to think about less.
I think if you are bronze/silver doing this 3rax stuff is a good way to get used to macroing. Yea, when it gets you in to gold (even some silver), you'll start losing some games, but by then you're used to the race and hopefully your macro is improving. At that stage, the player can then make some more complicated adjustments. Bronze to Diamond is a long road. Plenty of time to pick up new builds.
|
On April 24 2011 22:39 Valkola wrote:
This will be very useful to bronze/silver and maybe even gold players! good job!
EDIT: Seems like a lot of the guys here doesnt understand the meaning of this: it is a really easy build so its easily doable by bronze/silver players. With this easy build and the good basic advice given by the OP the basic mechanics of a bronze/silver player will become better much faster then when he's trying to do many different kind of pro builds out there. Bronze/silver players REALLY suck so they dont need more complicated builds than this to get better.
Im a master league player myself and could see many of my noob friends get better with the OPs help.
EDIT part quoted for truth. This is a pretty good and easy build to use to work on your mechanics. It's pretty straight forward and easy to do. It's become less effective after the stim nerf though.
I feel that people who keep saying "learn fundamentals" or "work on your mechanics" don't seem to realise that newer players need at least a build they can work on, and since they're newer, a simple build like 3 rax is a good place to start, plus the wins they can get will at least keep them interested in the game 
|
On April 25 2011 01:16 hmsrenown wrote:Show nested quote +On April 25 2011 01:00 Mercury- wrote:On April 24 2011 22:39 Valkola wrote:
This will be very useful to bronze/silver and maybe even gold players! good job!
EDIT: Seems like a lot of the guys here doesnt understand the meaning of this: it is a really easy build so its easily doable by bronze/silver players. With this easy build and the good basic advice given by the OP the basic mechanics of a bronze/silver player will become better much faster then when he's trying to do many different kind of pro builds out there. Bronze/silver players REALLY suck so they dont need more complicated builds than this to get better.
Im a master league player myself and could see many of my noob friends get better with the OPs help. So why not teach them reasonably safe fast expand builds or 1/1/1? Retarded one base crap makes the game less fun for everyone. And this one is a really shitty build too. I have a good answer: 4-gate/marine-scv all-in/10 pool baneling bust 3rax isn't purely one base unless you consciously choose to play as such. There are a lot of transitions to be made for late game.
That's a terrible mentality. If you teach them to all-in to defend the opponent's all-in they wont improve as players.
As for the second part, 6pool also isn't one base if you decide you don't want to lol.
|
I think it would be a lot better to try to teach people builds that will be staples in leagues like Gold and Plat, like fast expands and 1-1-1. Teaching people 3-rax will help in bronze, but ANY structured, practiced build will help in Bronze. I like the idea of this thread but I don't like the 3 rax example. I used it in bronze and yeah I won with it but it didn't help me legitimately improve very much.
|
I got into Diamond not knowing any build.. just made stuff constantly.
So really the point is to work on your macro.
|
Can you do one of these for Z, too? :D :D :D :D
|
On April 25 2011 00:03 LetoAtreides82 wrote:Show nested quote +On April 24 2011 23:06 SKYFISH_ wrote:
The 3rax is neither a rush nor an all-in.
It hits about the 7:30-8 minute mark depending on the map and you can expand behind it if it fails.
The strat is just a very strong one base push but unlike 4G it will NOT get you anywhere near masters as someone claimed. It basically stops working around Gold once your enemies learn to recognize and counter it.
Still a very good build for beginners, since MMM are the Terran fundamentals
I agree about it not being able to take you into masters. In a 3-rax you need stim and concussive to match the effectiveness of 4 gate. But i disagree about it not working around Gold, it's a solid build that will work up to diamond, I know because my terran account is in diamond and I used the 3-rax exclusively.
Well, that was my personal experience at least - around mid gold Zergs started making Banelings instead of blindly massing Roaches and Protoss players started paying closer attention to their ramp, which is essentially what they needed to shut down my rax opener.
I suppose you can get into Diamond with nothing but 3rax but only if you have previous experience.
Quite hard for a bronze beginner to pull it off imo.
Also,I really dont think 1-1-1 openers are suited for beginners - harder to effectively control that many different types of units, harder to make the right decisions which upgrades and units actually to make, harder to survive enemy one base pushes....
|
On April 25 2011 01:43 Logarythm wrote:
Can you do one of these for Z, too? :D :D :D :D
Most of the same principles (keep your money low, don't get supply blocked) apply. Zerg has a bit of a harder time using the same opening in all three matchups, but you can safely pull off a hatch first against any race if you're bronze or whatever. Just mass a stupid amount of drones early on (I mean like 4 zerglings and NOTHING ELSE for the first 7-8 minutes), hit your injects, take a third base and start massing up roaches once you're saturated on 2, and you should win pretty much any game where you're not getting cheesed or rushed because you have so many more workers.
note: this is obviously not a good long-term strategy for improvement, but it's close to what the OP is advising for terran, i.e. "win most of the time by exploiting the fact that your opponents are pretty bad"
|
That build helped me to get from bronze to gold. In bronze & silver that was basically an easy win in about 9-10 minutes, but in gold its not always the case.
I'm still not comfortable enough with my macro, so I want to improve my mid game with this build (when the initial attack failed). I want to look into bunch of replays with this build and further transition to a macro play from a good player.
Unfortunately, this is not that easy, because pro gamers don't use this build, while the others usually just have so many flaws in their play (like missing scvs e.t.c.) so it does not make sense to learn from them. Does anyone have an idea how to find a good replay?
|
Wouldn't you lose every single TvT? With the new Stim research time, Siege mode is finished way too quickly to pull that off.
|
The issue with getting out of Bronze by only doing 3 rax is how much easier macro and micro is with 3 rax and bio generally compared to mech/bio.
Yes you'll get good mechanics, but the moment you start wanting to use tanks or banshees or hellions etc you're macro and micro will go to hell again. It is much better to incorporate mech into your builds while leanring.... Yes you won't get promoted as fast, but when you do get better you'll be a better all round player and surely that's what people want. Not some shiny badge.
|
from a terran who actually got out of bronze (was protoss then zerg both gold then tried terran and well... not knowing crap doesnt help) using 3 rax... i can tell you it does really help your micro and macro because the thing is that once you hit gold normally people can hold it so you are forced to transition out of it and that makes you learn to macro and micro way more than going for a 1/1/1 wich is really really confusing for a low level player.
good job trump :D
|
Some great points I'd also like to add that if you're in bronze or silver you kind of have to expect cheese play. When I was in silver back in the beta every other game against a protoss was a cannon rush. Every other game against a zerg was a 6 pool or some sort of speedling allin. Terrans hadn't figured out proxy rax bunker's effectiveness yet thank god for that 
|
I'm going to be honest. I used to be in bronze, silver, and now with my recent promotion, I am in gold. I won all of my TvZs in 1 way:
Mass more marines. Why did this work? Nobody in bronze or silver can micro and most zergs just go for mutas because they think mutas beat everything. News flash, it loses to marines and thors. Mass Marines with 3/3 is pretty ridiculous to stop if you just a-move everything, which is just what bronze and silver leaguers do. If they micro, their macro slips. All I did was drop and mass marines off of 2 or 3 bases and it won.
Against Protoss, I just did 3 rax stim. Stim as you get to their ramp, and odds are, they won't be quick enough with the forcefield until you are on top of them.
Against Terran: I did a 5 rax all in. It worked. If you get bombarded with tanks, gg and leave because you have no gas to transition out of it and odds are, most of your workers died. Just gg because you cheesed, don't rage, and then queue up another 1v1 or other match.
|
|
|
|
|
|
EPT
