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On March 10 2011 04:46 CrazyCow wrote:
Now I can stop watching Code A on mute.
User was temp banned for this post.
As much as it was a bannable offense or offensive for anyone to him to say this, I agree on some level. For a caster, she was harder to understand than what we were well adjusted to and didn't mix well with the new guy that is casting. His clarity makes her commentary sound like a skipping CD where you can get some of the lyrics, but can't quite comprehend the full thing. It doesn't sound like she's a native english speaker and her extreme accent makes it rather hard for naturally english-speaking people to understand her. People really get uptight about criticizing someone for something like this, but clarity is always important. I'd get equally criticized for casting if I mumbled or slurred words even if I spoke perfect english. She's not a bad caster, but just not my tastes as she does not mingle with the current co-caster given these various characteristics.
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On March 11 2011 14:50 denzelz wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2011 14:41 Sein wrote:On March 11 2011 14:27 Ben... wrote:On March 11 2011 14:04 MuTT wrote:
Dang she is bad mannered she just told me to eat a dick lol. I can actually confirm this, if that was in fact actually her (At first I doubted it but the match history had tons of observed games of pros like edit: lzGamer, avilo, antimage, optikzero, Minigun, Sheth and so on so forth so I'm actually thinking it was really her). A person with her name flipped out on the GCPL channel and got mad at a couple people including ROOTFayth. Edi: Not a good way to portray oneself to the community. People were saying they didn't like her but she didn't need to do what she did. It would have been much better to be the better person and just ignore it instead of swearing at the community. Wait, so what exactly happened? Why did she get angry in the first place? On March 11 2011 14:33 denzelz wrote:
I'm really sad about all this. I think constructive criticism about her casting is fine, but let's admit, a lot of people on TL and GOM forums (including InControl) was making references that is borderline on sexual harassment. She was an active TL community member and if I had to wake up to some of these comments, I would have said screw this a long time ago. Can you actually link us to those posts on TL that would qualify as sexual harassment? I easily found one that fit what I was saying. http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=195220¤tpage=15#289Do you really believe that this wasn't happening? As you that naive or just don't look at GOM posts?
No, I indeed don't read the GOM forums. I believe I asked you to quote a post on TL? The post you gave me has a link to a justin.tv channel that has been closed, and it seems to be about Huk, so I'm a bit confused.
You'll find idiots everywhere you look. My point is that those idiots actually making racist or sexist comments are very rare here, and I don't think the TL community as a whole acted immaturely on this issue at all.
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On March 10 2011 04:48 stormchaser wrote:
I couldn't understand her 90% of the time anyway. She shouldn't be a commentator, she should persue something else.
EDIT: its also worth noting that she could've been fired for other reasons, or maybe she didn't enjoy her job (?). Anyways, its none of our business.
its funny how we want the world to be e-sports friendly, but you complain about an accent. Her accent wasn't strong and like somebody else said she would have learned.
I hope she comes back strong and stays in the e-sports scene.
Go Kelly!
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On March 11 2011 14:48 Bart wrote:
there is a lot of trolling going on these days. It's stated over and over in threads, SOTG etc that TL forums used to be a friendly, supportive bunch of gamers who loved the game and everything about it. As a WoW and SC2 gamer (yes I play WoW as well) I find it oddly similar as both communities are getting more and more immature as time goes by.
Anyways I would like to say that Kelly did her best and took her shot and I respect her for it.
What is immature about having an honest critique about a VERY important casting position? I agree that some comments were over the top; however, she just wasn't a good caster. Period. If the new caster were male and spoke English as his first language yet performed poorly, I would make the same critique. I don't see why this is getting warped into a "sexism" thing
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On March 11 2011 14:33 denzelz wrote:
I'm really sad about all this. I think constructive criticism about her casting is fine, but let's admit, a lot of people on TL and GOM forums (including InControl) was making references that is borderline on sexual harassment. She was an active TL community member and if I had to wake up to some of these comments, I would have said screw this a long time ago.
What did incontrol say that bordered on sexual harassment? I haven't heard anything from anywhere near those lines.
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Everyone wants global eSports..? This thread doesn't really show it.
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So I was in a custom game lobby that was taking a while to fill up, and out of curiosity I pulled up the league of the other guy in there. There I see kellyMILKIES in his gold league. I pull it up and glance at it, trying to find some confirmation it's a real profile and not some fanboy. 2v2 team with moonglade, so I know it's her. Custom game still not loading, (I guess because it was 3am?!), so I go through match history. Played no one above gold 12-12. Some of these games the army graph shows she was just absolutely outmacroed all game.
With that, I have a hard time believing Kelly who is struggling vs Silver/Gold players on NA is Diamond on KR. If she dropped a game or two to something silly or something that's fine, but 12-12 is kind of telling.
What's the point of this?
I'm curious if the 'I'm Diamond on the Korean server' was just a lie to help give her credibility.
Maybe not, maybe the latency threw her off or she was just having a horrible day.
Does anyone have a link to her KR account on sc2ranks or something?
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Well the people have spoken. I dont know how anyone can really complain about that. Yea, it woulda been nicer if 90% of the people who didnt like her werent assholes about it, but if they didnt like her theres nothing that can change that fact.
I honestly dont get how people couldnt understand her accent. I could and im not singaporean, Im a born and bred Amurrican. Seriously, if you can speak and understand English fluently, you should be able to understand her. If you found her accent annoying then say that, but dont be a pussy and hide behind her understandability because anyone with a decent grasp of English would be able to know what shes talking about.
I thought she was alright, but hearing the difference in depth between her commentating and Tastosis was a little too much for me. Good luck to her though.
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On March 11 2011 15:28 Dox wrote:
Everyone wants global eSports..? This thread doesn't really show it.
I agree. It will not happen until the market does not control what happens just like in any other business. So following the outcry of the majority of the community is a step in a right direction.
Some people in this thread need to finally understand this and stop ignoring it just because THEY didn't find her difficult to understand.
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There's a lot of pressure and sexism towards Kelly from the 'community' but to be honest I don't think she deserves it, still I don't think casting code A is a potential career future for her, I'm looking forward to the drama blowing over.
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I've never seen anyone be racist or sexist towards her...
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On March 11 2011 15:28 Dox wrote:
Everyone wants global eSports..? This thread doesn't really show it.
What are you talking about?
It's not like when everybody watches the world cup all people that speak English throughout the world watch one commentator. And if that were true I assure you that commentator would speak impeccable and clear to understand English. Seriously, where is your point at all? Nobody is saying Kelly was a bad choice because of her race or her sex, it's about people understanding her and overall about whether the majority of people liked her as a caster or not.
Most of us didn't.
EDIT: Oh are you trying to argue FOR what I'm trying to say? It's really unclear, I'm sorry. That comment is incredibly vague.
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On March 11 2011 15:16 WorldTraveleR wrote:
there is a lot of trolling going on these days. It's stated over and over in threads, SOTG etc that TL forums used to be a friendly, supportive bunch of gamers who loved the game and everything about it. As a WoW and SC2 gamer (yes I play WoW as well) I find it oddly similar as both communities are getting more and more immature as time goes by.
Anyways I would like to say that Kelly did her best and took her shot and I respect her for it.
It's because kids with better-to-do parents are joining the working adult fray of conversation. Or maybe it's just adults wanting to relive their adolescent days. 
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Whether people are being racist, sexist, etc. I do not know.
However, what I do know is that people are not acknowledging the new caster DOA's extreme LACK OF ANALYSIS.
When a white guy has no analysis: teamliquid praises the guy
When a SA girl has no analysis: teamliquid goes on a witch hunt
Don't even try to argue that DOA's analysis of the game is semi-decent. When I see marines going to to 9 o clock base, I don't need a commentator to tell me "now *** is sending his marines to 9 o clock" every ****ing time. Basically all DOA does is state what's happening in the game....HELLOOOO we have ****ing eyes, we can TELL WTF is going on!!! Can we have some tastosis analysis PLZ??!! When a zerg playing against Huk canceled his hatch after Huk scouted it to go early roach push, both Kelly and DOA kept continuing on with their conversation without even acknowledging what just happened. At least Kelly was explaining what just happened like 20 seconds later.
Basically, I think both Kelly and DOA have failed as commentators. But just because DOA speaks english with a better and clearer accent, it masks his bronze-level analysis and people praise him. Whereas I think Kelly gets more criticism than usual for her bad commentary because of her accent (and/or racism(?))
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On March 11 2011 15:30 Clicker wrote:
So I was in a custom game lobby that was taking a while to fill up, and out of curiosity I pulled up the league of the other guy in there. There I see kellyMILKIES in his gold league. I pull it up and glance at it, trying to find some confirmation it's a real profile and not some fanboy. 2v2 team with moonglade, so I know it's her. Custom game still not loading, (I guess because it was 3am?!), so I go through match history. Played no one above gold 12-12. Some of these games the army graph shows she was just absolutely outmacroed all game.
With that, I have a hard time believing Kelly who is struggling vs Silver/Gold players on NA is Diamond on KR. If she dropped a game or two to something silly or something that's fine, but 12-12 is kind of telling.
What's the point of this?
I'm curious if the 'I'm Diamond on the Korean server' was just a lie to help give her credibility.
Maybe not, maybe the latency threw her off or she was just having a horrible day.
Does anyone have a link to her KR account on sc2ranks or something?
Just FYI I streamed while laddering 2 days ago and I got an account to Diamond on Korea LIVE on stream.
Just want to clear this up ^-^V
I think I've said multiple times but I OBV don't play on only my accounts that is in my name.
In any case when I return I am going to ladder all my account to Masters so people can stop guessing how good I am. Lol.
As for the incident on Bnet about me talking in GCPL it was a joke. I went in to troll. God people need to relax. Trolls can't get trolled in return? How typical of a bully :0
Btw the comments that made me go in and troll for fun wasn't about me going back to Singapore it was super racist with comments like BACK TO CHINA. I don't think that was not racist 
That's all I won't reply anymore. Or read this thread. I don't know why it's not locked yet. But it should be :p
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Yes we should lock a thread in which people discuss a viable topic that is fresh on the communities mind...? Let us get it out of our systems now.
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On March 11 2011 16:26 Dubpace wrote:
Yes we should lock a thread in which people discuss a viable topic that is fresh on the communities mind...? Let us get it out of our systems now.
Exactly what I was thinking.
She just wants to hear that she's doing great even though this is Not the case. An honest discussion about Good casting serves the community even if it does not serve one individual's needs. However, this is a community and this topic has clearly frustrated a lot of people, me being one of them.
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On March 11 2011 16:26 Dubpace wrote:
Yes we should lock a thread in which people discuss a viable topic that is fresh on the communities mind...? Let us get it out of our systems now.
FRESH? Are you fucking kidding? This dead horse has been beaten for a whole month, she's going back home, LET IT GO ALREADY.
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On March 11 2011 15:30 Clicker wrote:
With that, I have a hard time believing Kelly who is struggling vs Silver/Gold players on NA is Diamond on KR. If she dropped a game or two to something silly or something that's fine, but 12-12 is kind of telling.
What's the point of this?
I'm curious if the 'I'm Diamond on the Korean server' was just a lie to help give her credibility.
Maybe not, maybe the latency threw her off or she was just having a horrible day.
Does anyone have a link to her KR account on sc2ranks or something?
Yeah I've seen her profile on the NA server and she is in fact gold and silver. I also find it hard to believe that she could be Diamond in korea, and if it was some pitch for credibility. Based on her commentary, the gold and silver league placement makes sense
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On March 11 2011 16:48 Dox wrote:Show nested quote +On March 11 2011 16:26 Dubpace wrote:
Yes we should lock a thread in which people discuss a viable topic that is fresh on the communities mind...? Let us get it out of our systems now. FRESH? Are you fucking kidding? This dead horse has been beaten for a whole month, she's going back home, LET IT GO ALREADY.
Saying the subject is not fresh is simply not true. The initial presumptions before her casting of course are a dead horse I agree, however after Kelly having her opportunity, her "proving ground", people feel the need to vent and as such it's of course fresh following such news.
I personally was initially sceptical of Kelly's abilities to act on such a Global stage after listening to a lot of her WC3 VODs. Whilst initially I didn't find her commentating pleasant, it's blatantly obvious that whilst she was out there she took on board peoples criticisms, tried to slow herself down a bit and try to pronounce a lot more clearly in her foreign tongue.
Unfortunately for me though, whilst it was obvious she was trying to improve (which is great) I still didn't like the commentary that much, as my native tongue is indeed English and, as stated before, on a global stage it's so imperative to be as clear as possible so as not to frustrate the audience. Which, on that note actually brings me thoughts of some of my foreign friends, as normally a lot of them can only understand English when it's spoken in a very clear way (I live in Finland so deal with this all the time). I have a few friends from Helsinki who don't have a fantastic command of the English language, so for them the experience as a whole was, annoying to say the least.
Regardless, ANYONE given the opportunity (including myself (i'm trying to commentate on YT)) would jump at the chance to commentate for GOM so it's completely understandable why someone would give it a go, regardless of their native tongue. It just so happens that this shoe didn't fit 
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EPT
