50% joking / 50% serious
The Death of the Hydra? - Page 21
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IPA
United States3206 Posts
50% joking / 50% serious | ||
MoMoGai
United States18 Posts
Hell, even a 50 food roach army gets demolished by 50 food chargezealots. Stalkers are weak sauce, the only strong gate unit is the Zealot :D | ||
ssregitoss
Turkey241 Posts
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Belial88
United States5217 Posts
-10 second build time did nothing to buff phoenix builds, now? Oh my. It did nothing to lower their value (cost to dmg/health/speed/etc) or change how they performed. It only allowed for earlier timing attacks and for PvZ, for the most part. Don't act like you have no idea what I'm saying. Hydra are strong, but at 100/50, it's a joke how fast they die. How would terrans react if Marines were 50/25? That's what a hydra is. Except 2 marines are better anyway. a roach and a hydra is much stronger than a hydra/hydra, and 4 marines. You need the life/armor/durability of roaches with hydras. No one says roaches are broken, yet 2 roaches = 1 hydra in DPS. The main point of hydras is to supplement roaches and free up supply, as 1hydra+50minerals+2supply=2roaches in DPS. | ||
101toss
3232 Posts
On March 09 2011 09:27 Belial88 wrote: It did nothing to lower their value (cost to dmg/health/speed/etc) or change how they performed. It only allowed for earlier timing attacks and for PvZ, for the most part. Don't act like you have no idea what I'm saying. a roach and a hydra is much stronger than a hydra/hydra, and 4 marines. You need the life/armor/durability of roaches with hydras. No one says roaches are broken, yet 2 roaches = 1 hydra in DPS. The main point of hydras is to supplement roaches and free up supply, as 1hydra+50minerals+2supply=2roaches in DPS. The issue is that while the hydra has 2X roach worth in DPS, it has about 1/3.5 of 2 roaches health. This means it dies to everything and thus doesn't deal it's DPS for long enough to make it worthwhile. | ||
Serpico
4285 Posts
On March 09 2011 09:15 freetgy wrote: ling/Hydras are the counter to blink stalkers.... how does this work with you understanding ? That's not the point....hydras arent being compared against stalkers in a fight but with their mobility. Zerg is supposed to be the most mobile race and yet hydras are slow and fragile at best. | ||
jinorazi
Korea (South)4948 Posts
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WickedBit
United States343 Posts
On March 09 2011 09:33 101toss wrote: The issue is that while the hydra has 2X roach worth in DPS, it has about 1/3.5 of 2 roaches health. This means it dies to everything and thus doesn't deal it's DPS for long enough to make it worthwhile. Yes. This is what the problem with the hydra is. The hydra in SC2 was made a lot more expensive that the SC1 hydra, however its health was left untouched and the only real upgrade is the dps. That however is offset by the slow speed off creep. So I would say that the SC2 hydra is just a lot more expensive and bigger version of the sc:bw hydra. ATM this is a unit having an identity crisis since there is no clear role for it to fill in a zerg army. If Anti air is needed most people will build a spire instead of hydra den since corruptors are useful against colossi also. Its a unit with very narrow use. A easy solution is that hydras should be faster both on and off creep, as suggested, for them to be more useful. This will make microing them a lot easier and increase their effectiveness. | ||
WickedBit
United States343 Posts
On March 09 2011 09:18 MoMoGai wrote: Ionno why ppl keep saying Hydras demolish Gate units. Try out 50 food Hydra army w/ Range upgrade vs 50 food Zealot army w/ charge upgrade - the Zealots demolish the hydras =_='' Hell, even a 50 food roach army gets demolished by 50 food chargezealots. Stalkers are weak sauce, the only strong gate unit is the Zealot :D Stalkers are not all that weak. They cost almost the same as a hydra, have 2x the HP ,1/2 the dps and have great mobility. You will also have to consider blink upgrade which in the hands of a competent player is a very powerful ability. What this means is that the hydra only demolish gateway units pre twilight council upgrades. After any of those upgrades the gateway units would probably be able to hold their own. | ||
Fingulfin
United States110 Posts
On March 09 2011 09:44 WickedBit wrote:A easy solution is that hydras should be faster both on and off creep, as suggested, for them to be more useful. This will make microing them a lot easier and increase their effectiveness. Not really. The problem biggest problem with hydras isn't their inability to micro around in small unit battles (they are so expensive both resource and tech wise that you won't see them before the midgame anyway), the problem with hydras is their insane squishiness. Colossus and Siege Tanks really don't care about how well you micro your squishy units, they roast your hydras down regardless of how much dancing you try to do. That being said, increasing their speed wouldn't be a bad thing... it just wouldn't be enough to make the unit worth anything. | ||
Xova
United States342 Posts
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Deleted User 108965
1096 Posts
On March 09 2011 09:40 Serpico wrote: That's not the point....hydras arent being compared against stalkers in a fight but with their mobility. Zerg is supposed to be the most mobile race and yet hydras are slow and fragile at best. well every unit cant be super fast. i would still say that zerg is the most mobile race | ||
Schnullerbacke13
Germany1199 Posts
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Tanatos
United States381 Posts
I think I am fine with speed of Hydra, since I really don't use it as offensive unit. That's Muta / ling's job. I really wish they can buff their build time or DPS. I think this buff can emphasize the function that Blizzard wants Hydra to be. | ||
Deletrious
United States458 Posts
On March 09 2011 09:59 Fingulfin wrote: Not really. The problem biggest problem with hydras isn't their inability to micro around in small unit battles (they are so expensive both resource and tech wise that you won't see them before the midgame anyway), the problem with hydras is their insane squishiness. Colossus and Siege Tanks really don't care about how well you micro your squishy units, they roast your hydras down regardless of how much dancing you try to do. That being said, increasing their speed wouldn't be a bad thing... it just wouldn't be enough to make the unit worth anything. Siege tanks kill both hydras and roaches in 3 hits? | ||
AssuredVacancy
United States1167 Posts
On March 09 2011 10:14 Deletrious wrote: Siege tanks kill both hydras and roaches in 3 hits? which is why almost no one uses roaches in zvt any more. even then, a hydra costs almost as much as 2 roaches, but has less hp than one. | ||
Rucky
United States717 Posts
On March 09 2011 09:59 Fingulfin wrote: Not really. The problem biggest problem with hydras isn't their inability to micro around in small unit battles (they are so expensive both resource and tech wise that you won't see them before the midgame anyway), the problem with hydras is their insane squishiness. Colossus and Siege Tanks really don't care about how well you micro your squishy units, they roast your hydras down regardless of how much dancing you try to do. That being said, increasing their speed wouldn't be a bad thing... it just wouldn't be enough to make the unit worth anything. you're limiting micro to dancing...that's as obvious as saying you shouldn't micro against a photon cannon. speed increase allows your hydras to move in and out of battle as well as dash in to harass expansions and run away reasonably quick. you can choose your fights and not be committed with the attack. because they are so expensive and low in hp, if you can at least run away with them, you can have them fight a better battle later on. now here's a little bit of a micro lesson as well. if you can pull your hydras back more quickly than now, the enemy will have to 1) stop attacking your hydras and attack the tanking roaches OR 2) chase your hydras. In 1) you can then attack with your hydras high dps and in 2) your roaches will get free shots at the enemy. Squishiness can be compensated with more health or speed and micro. Two answers to choose from but one increases the dynamics of the game while the other just adds another A move unit to the game. | ||
archdevilz
91 Posts
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RHMVNovus
United States738 Posts
On March 09 2011 09:59 Xova wrote: Maybe I want reapers back. Should I make a post? Indeed, reapers are now utterly useless for any purpose. Like scouting. Useless. I'm pretty sure Zergs would be fucking overjoyed to have a 50/50 unit that could actually scout a walled-off P/T in the early game. The reaper is far from useless. | ||
5unrise
New Zealand646 Posts
On March 09 2011 09:59 Xova wrote: Maybe I want reapers back. Should I make a post? Is this how people approach balance (yes, I am using that word) nowadays? He gets to have this, so I should get to have that back?? Why should he get this if I don't get anything? That is really the most awful way to approach things, as the goal of tweaking the game's mechanics is to have a better and more balanced game, and that is regardless of who gets what in the process. Some races needs more attention, some do not, that's fact. | ||
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