On February 26 2011 20:06 Cabinet Sanchez wrote: When are we going to see bunkers get 80% value back on salvage instead of 100%?
Bunkers effectively cast 125 minerals now (lost mining time, .7 minerals per second, 35 seconds), and you only get 100 back. That's 80% for you.
And besides, getting only 80 minerals back on salvage wouldn't change the game at all. It would just reduce jealousy from other races.
Lost mining time... LOL. You must be kidding. So spine crawlers and every other zerg building effectively cost an infinite amount of minerals because of the missing drone.
On February 26 2011 18:44 Liquid`TLO wrote: wow thanks for making Infestors even better Blizzard :D
LOL im afraid they will be terrible broken now. it all depends how fast this projectile is tho. if its like an emp then i will laff my way to victory every game
also removing amulett is gonna have a huge impact on protoss o.o
mothership change and charge change are both great
its rather slow. there is a video in this thread somewhere. blink stalkers can dodge it easy.
plus and fast unit (stimmed marines >.>) will dodge it piss easy. so you have to predict the movement of the unit your aiming at.
It's very slow
thanks for the vod. i take back what i said about broken. it might need abit extra tweaks but it seems like a nice change to me can already imagine blink micro and spread marines to dodge the projectile
It's fast enough that there's a cost to dodging: That you're not shooting for those few seconds. Even a missed fungal is still useful.
well think about it this way. marines will be running anyways because of banelings :p
but something awesome about this is that it takes 3 tank shots to kill the infestor now instead of 2
I was thinking more of Void Rays, but microing marines against Muta/Bane/Infestor/Ling will be insane.
Do you think the fungal change makes it possible for Zerg for beat a Colossus/Void Ray death ball, now?
i think its still gonna he hard to go toe to toe with a zerg deathball vs a prootss deathball but the the hydralisk, overlords (with baelings in them), ultralisk,corruptor and infestor had a nice buff here infact zvp in late game overall had a nice buff here
What buffed Hydras, Baneling Drops, Ultras and Corrupters. They weren't themselves improved. What changed that made them better?
On February 26 2011 10:43 norlock wrote: An alert has been added when MULEs expire.
An alert has been added when the Chrono Boost buff expires.
An alert has been added when the Spawn Larva buff expires.
Not fan of this one's? Why would they make the macro even easier, unawarenes should be punished not be reminded.
I seriously feel this is needed for Zerg w/o being a stupid " make the game too easy ".
no, it's not needed. I would rather Blizzard make chrono boost and MULEs as sensitive to timing as spawn larva. :/
Chronoboost and spawn larva punish both Protoss and Zerg when missed, MULE is the only one with absoloutely no punishment. - it needs a cooldown, even if it's 10 seconds.
On February 26 2011 20:03 Alpina wrote: New fungal vs. stalkers:
k this is stupid. but easily fixable if they increase missile speed by like 2 or 3 times.
I don't understand why fungal needs nerfing in the slightest. It is usable but not overly used against terran and hardly used though arguably useful in late game against protoss.
We have not seen a single example where infestors could be called overpowered. Useful sometimes. Powerful sometimes. Overpowered? Never.
I personally almost exclusively play a ling baneling and very quick infestor into ultralisk with a bit of mutalisk harass if required against terran at 3.2k masters on US, and not once have I felt it is overpowered. Equally as good as mutalisks but no better, just a different style.
Against protoss I haven't found infestors to be worth the gas though I couldn't write them off entirely, happy to be proven wrong
After this patch, the only style against terran will be ling baneling muta, the only style against toss will remain roach hydra corrupter. (Not ignoring the possibility of situational transitions but as a base midgame army, these are going to be the only standard choices).
I don't understand the changes to zerg at all. Changes to amulet seem reasonable when considering TvP lategame and changes to bunkers seem reasonable if blizzard wants to promote macro a little more over 2-rax bunker builds.
On February 26 2011 10:43 norlock wrote: An alert has been added when MULEs expire.
An alert has been added when the Chrono Boost buff expires.
An alert has been added when the Spawn Larva buff expires.
Not fan of this one's? Why would they make the macro even easier, unawarenes should be punished not be reminded.
I seriously feel this is needed for Zerg w/o being a stupid " make the game too easy ".
no, it's not needed. I would rather Blizzard make chrono boost and MULEs as sensitive to timing as spawn larva. :/
Chronoboost and spawn larva punish both Protoss and Zerg when missed, MULE is the only one with absoloutely no punishment. - it needs a cooldown, even if it's 10 seconds.
I suffer, so other needs to suffer as well - is this what you are trying to say? I think you should seek some help..
notice that the stipulated cost of 300/250 to morph a broodlord on the ptr matches the exact amount of gas and minerals that were needed before the patch (and is currently still in use on ladder) to create a broodlord(cost for corruptor already included). i think this might be an oversight or math mistake on behalf of the programming / developing/whatever squad that was carried over to the actual game. so im fairly confident that this will be fixed as soon as theyll notice it. that and the ridiculous cost that would make broodlords absolutely not worth getting.
Patch 1.4 ° Infestor - Infestor no longer has any spells - Infestors are now shiny yellow - Infestor can now produce up to 8 scarabs - Infestor now belongs to Protoss - Infestor is now called Reaver
On February 26 2011 19:45 iPlaY.NettleS wrote: I don't understand the removal of +25 templar energy or the removal of losses in the profile view.
This game is going backwards , blizzard needs to stop messing with the basics like supply before barracks and concentrate on the real issues.
The game continues to have options removed without anything being added.
High Templar with +25 energy was not expanding on options. Quite simply, HT use with the advent of warp in and 25 bonus energy made the unit incredibly one dimensional. I remember in Brood War when Protoss had to, you know, manage their High Templar carefully.
We didn't die that often to straight up mass marine because our limited storms anhilated things. (let alone our reavers. ha try your mass marine crap against a pair of reavers with some beefy dragoon support).
This isn't possible in SC2. That's a poor comparison.
I can't believe someone is saying the OC is a legitimate cost for bunker rushes. Bunkers are free. -.- semantic nonsense.
[QUOTE]On February 26 2011 20:06 Cyberus wrote: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- - An alert has been added when MULEs expire. - An alert has been added when the Chrono Boost buff expires. - An alert has been added when the Spawn Larva buff expires. --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wow, so now we have to deal with perfect timed MULES in ever -vT. Seriously, DIE BLIZZARD. Just make the fucking game, then hand it over to someone who knows what they are doing.
They are nerfing other races instead of buffing zerg. Im not even sure if the fungal is nerf (try catch mutas /blinkstalks/ phoenix now) or a buff(dmg obviously). Im not sure if this is the good direction to move.
Fungal Growth now requires more micro to use right or dodge, that's a good thing no? But honestly that video vs blink Stalkers shows nothing. First of all Stalkers are the only unit in the game which can blink so even if it was bad vs them it's only against 1 unit. Secondly, if there is a big battle going on plus macroing to do you can't watch your group of stalkers 100% of the time and blink them out of the way. This would still hit any other units there anyway.
Seriously kharidian amulet removed, wtf is blizzard thinking and the vortex change will basically reduce the mothership to uselessness again. Really dislike pretty much all of those balance changes including the zerg and terran ones.
On February 26 2011 18:44 Liquid`TLO wrote: wow thanks for making Infestors even better Blizzard :D
LOL im afraid they will be terrible broken now. it all depends how fast this projectile is tho. if its like an emp then i will laff my way to victory every game
also removing amulett is gonna have a huge impact on protoss o.o
mothership change and charge change are both great
its rather slow. there is a video in this thread somewhere. blink stalkers can dodge it easy.
plus and fast unit (stimmed marines >.>) will dodge it piss easy. so you have to predict the movement of the unit your aiming at.
thanks for the vod. i take back what i said about broken. it might need abit extra tweaks but it seems like a nice change to me can already imagine blink micro and spread marines to dodge the projectile
It's fast enough that there's a cost to dodging: That you're not shooting for those few seconds. Even a missed fungal is still useful.
well think about it this way. marines will be running anyways because of banelings :p
but something awesome about this is that it takes 3 tank shots to kill the infestor now instead of 2
I was thinking more of Void Rays, but microing marines against Muta/Bane/Infestor/Ling will be insane.
Do you think the fungal change makes it possible for Zerg for beat a Colossus/Void Ray death ball, now?
i think its still gonna he hard to go toe to toe with a zerg deathball vs a prootss deathball but the the hydralisk, overlords (with baelings in them), ultralisk,corruptor and infestor had a nice buff here infact zvp in late game overall had a nice buff here
What buffed Hydras, Baneling Drops, Ultras and Corrupters. They weren't themselves improved. What changed that made them better?
i mean the army vs army as a whole.
the high templar change is quite a BIG setback for modern pvz where they switches to high templar
mothership was disturbingly broken pvz late game and now that wont be a huge issue anymore
voidray, colosus, stalker are all stacked on each other and are armored. i believe fungal will add quite a sick damage overall to that a pvz battle takes about 10 seconds, and if used correctly i think the infestor itself can add about 100~ damage to every single protoss unit in it and also prevent movement speed
this is just how rts works. you change something in early game and late game is turned upside down. you change 1 unit and the other units take just as a big impact of it. everything is connected :p
On February 26 2011 20:06 Cabinet Sanchez wrote: When are we going to see bunkers get 80% value back on salvage instead of 100%?
Bunkers effectively cast 125 minerals now (lost mining time, .7 minerals per second, 35 seconds), and you only get 100 back. That's 80% for you.
And besides, getting only 80 minerals back on salvage wouldn't change the game at all. It would just reduce jealousy from other races.
This is a dumb argument.
According to this logic, all zerg buildings would cost more and more money as the game goes on.
No the bunker does not cost 125 minerals.
You cannot directly compare terran and zerg econ as both are fundamentally different. For example, i cannot produce 7 scvs simultaneously.
All i'm saying is that if i build a bunker, i'm going to have 125 minerals less than if i didn't build a bunker. I can later salvage the bunker but i'll still have 25 minerals less than if i didn't build a bunker at all. It's the same with mules and scans. People like to argue that scans are "free" since they only cost energy - but i will still have 270 minerals less than if i didn't scan - cause of the lose mule. If that isn't "cost" to you than name it something else. Fact is that it's reducing the resources i would otherwise have.
As the races different econ mechanics are not directly comparable, the only valid method is to compare the if- with the if-not- scenario like i did above.
Edit: And yes, zerg buildings cost not only their minerals + 50 (from the drone) but also an increasing amount of minerals in lost mining time that accumulates over time. That's why you need to be careful as zerg not to suffocate your econ by building too many buildings at the same time. It's not "infinite" though but rather like "building cost" + 50 minerals + ~42 minerals per minute.
On February 26 2011 14:02 ectonym wrote: Remember the shitstorm people went through on the first big PTR patch that was soon after revoked: fungal growth no longer has the ability to target air
that change was gone very quickly, if Protoss knew how to properly QQ like us Zerg, the Amulet will be back
What doesn't make sense: fungal projectile, amulet removal (way to encourage more colossus) and vortex change, (is it really game breaking?) stim research time, (is that actually going to change anything?) removing shakuras plateau from ladder pool. I feel like I'm taking crazy pills here.
EPT
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