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Before you post, read the title of this thread slowly and out loud. |
On February 25 2011 00:45 zeru wrote:
I think people defending incontrol are overreacting. It's not like people are saying incontrol is a terrible person, it's more the point that he's not the right person to represent a big event/organization like this because in my mind he's basically saying:
I'm going to watch a restream of GSL, no one else should do that though, and I want you to pay for NASL tickets, and dont watch restreams of that either. thanks.
It's beyond me how people can want a character like that to represent the biggest most important(?) non korean SC2 tournament which is going to need all the support it can get. It's not even like it's only a couple people who don't approve of this, its quite a lot of you haven't noticed.
It's not about "hating" on incontrol, hell i love sotg and he's hilarious, but seriously... seriously...
No offense, but I don't think its an overreaction from his defenders when much of the conversation on the Reddit thread at the moment is literally "fuck u incontrol" "Incontrol is a huge asshole" and similar low content postings.
It would be one thing if this was a mature, rational discussion, but it has simply descended into nothing more than a public lynching.
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Well, actually, if he only received a warning it's because there was a difference. The first time I streamed copyrighted content I received a 24hour ban.
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Question: Is NASL worried about potential dialogue like this:
John, VP Marketing, Intel: "Alright so that 100K we put into this new esports group..."
Bob, Analyst: "Well we had good exposure, but a feminist group is now up in arms about some comments their spokesperson said. Also, we received complains from viewers about things he said of another team."
John: "There's obviously some conflicts of interest if he's in a team, with a potential impact on $$ that could go to these other teams, no, Bob?"
Bob: "Yep."
John: "What does all this say about Intel?"
Bob: "Nothing very good."
John: "Pull out, now. Looks like this gaming thing is run by a bunch of acne-ridden teenagers... what else would you expect from people who play VIDEO GAMES?"
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On February 25 2011 01:22 ReachTheSky wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2011 01:13 floor exercise wrote:On February 25 2011 01:06 xBillehx wrote:On February 25 2011 01:03 cyprin wrote:On February 25 2011 00:59 vdek wrote:On February 25 2011 00:45 zeru wrote:
I think people defending incontrol are overreacting. It's not like people are saying incontrol is a terrible person, it's more the point that he's not the right person to represent a big event/organization like this because in my mind he's basically saying:
I'm going to watch a restream of GSL, no one else should do that though, and I want you to pay for NASL tickets, and dont watch restreams of that either. thanks.
It's beyond me how people can want a character like that to represent the biggest most important(?) non korean SC2 tournament which is going to need all the support it can get. It's not even like it's only a couple people who don't approve of this, its quite a lot of you haven't noticed.
It's not about "hating" on incontrol, hell i love sotg and he's hilarious, but seriously... seriously... I don't think we're overreacting at all. I think the haters are being a bit too much however. You're basically demanding that this guy whose spent decades building up esports in the west, who has been a pro gamer himself and a great member of the community, who has dedicated his life and passion to esports, should just give up his dream because you don't like his personality... All you're doing is looking for the smallest thing to pick apart his character and to try to ruin him. You don't like him because he banned you for restreaming, so let's start a giant slanderous thread on reddit and hijack a thread on team liquid to assasinate his character with misrepresented pictures. Get real. As other posters have mentioned he was never doing a full screen restream of the GSL, but you conveniently choose to ignore that... On February 25 2011 00:57 paksam wrote:
I think everybody is putting things out of context, I personally don't care that he accidentally restreamed GSL. I care that he banned someone for no good reason because he had the power to. Also for all who say this has nothing to do with the NASL, I don't see how that opinion is valid only because he stated himself he wanted to be the face of the NASL. He got banned for restreaming the GSL, I can't tell if you're trolling or if that's a serious question... Why does it matter if someone is restreaming GSL if they aren't listed on TL and aren't posting about the stream on TL? Incontrol only knew it existed because he asked his stream chat, and Huko was banned because he doesn't agree with Inc being the face of NASL--the "huge prick" part. Sorry but people & huko himself have posted his restream link in the GSL LR threads before. Go through Huko's posts in those threads yourself. I think you need the order of events explained Inc asks for a restream of Gom on his stream, because he is too cheap to buy a ticket Someone links Huko's stream for him to watch GSL on Incontrol, who has had words with Huko on this forum because Huko criticized his ability to perform his role in NASL, decides to ban him from the forum for restreaming GSL upon discovering whos stream he was linked to. It was pretty clearly an ego driven abuse of moderator power. He has since stepped down (kudos for doing that) but it reinforces the stance of people who don't think Inc is suited for his tasks in NASL. Whether or not he is, time will tell. I would also like to add that how could incontrol not know about gsl re-streams being against the rules prior to these events listed? It was all over tl.net before this and mods were banning and disabling streamers on tl.net for this. I'm sure it was communicated to mods prior to this so they could carry out the bans.
Do we have to repeat this constantly in this thread??? There is a huge difference between how incontrol was "restreaming" it and how HuKo does it. The way iNcontrol was doing it could possibly fall under fair use and is a grey area which is why he was uncertain if it was wrong or not. Huko's stream on the other hand is a blatant copyright violation.
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On February 25 2011 01:32 zeru wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2011 01:29 TheNihilist wrote:On February 25 2011 00:45 zeru wrote:
I think people defending incontrol are overreacting. It's not like people are saying incontrol is a terrible person, it's more the point that he's not the right person to represent a big event/organization like this because in my mind he's basically saying:
I'm going to watch a restream of GSL, no one else should do that though, and I want you to pay for NASL tickets, and dont watch restreams of that either. thanks.
It's beyond me how people can want a character like that to represent the biggest most important(?) non korean SC2 tournament which is going to need all the support it can get. It's not even like it's only a couple people who don't approve of this, its quite a lot of you haven't noticed.
It's not about "hating" on incontrol, hell i love sotg and he's hilarious, but seriously... seriously... No offense, but I don't think its an overreaction from his defenders when much of the conversation on the Reddit thread at the moment is literally "fuck u incontrol" "Incontrol is a huge asshole" and similar low content postings. It would be one thing if this was a mature, rational discussion, but it has simply descended into nothing more than a public lynching. I didn't even mention reddit in my post. Im talking about this thread.
I understand, but it bears mentioning considering it is the origin of the current "drama."
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On February 25 2011 01:29 Elbee wrote:
Well, actually, if he only received a warning it's because there was a difference. The first time I streamed copyrighted content I received a 24hour ban.
or its because on the stream the justin.tv mod that was watching his stream at the time who gave the warning said in a PM to Incontrol "i'm a huge fan" by the way its a against the rules to re-stream gom.tv. They are very serious about this issue and won't hesitate to send out a shutdown notice. Sounds like he was just being lenient if you ask me.
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Is it me or do people have it backwards? We are basically questioning his intentions in permanently banning huko. Note that TL has removed his permanent ban meaning his ban was probably(note that I say probably because i am uncertain on TL views) unjust, why can't people just see that?
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On February 25 2011 00:56 TheTenthDoc wrote:
Question (what this thread is actually for): How does NASL plan to prevent spoiling of the games during the preliminaries? I know I've been spoiled several times just by having chat open during anything that wasn't played live due to the ability to see match history on Bnet and also the huge amount of observers that clog games nowadays.
Though this questions has been answered several times in this thread, I'm sure you haven't been able to find it because of all the Incontrol hate that's been flooding the place.
Games will be played using anonymous accounts, or something similar, which will be provided by Blizzard. No doubt observers aren't going to be allowed in the games either.
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On February 25 2011 01:38 TheNihilist wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2011 01:32 zeru wrote:On February 25 2011 01:29 TheNihilist wrote:On February 25 2011 00:45 zeru wrote:
I think people defending incontrol are overreacting. It's not like people are saying incontrol is a terrible person, it's more the point that he's not the right person to represent a big event/organization like this because in my mind he's basically saying:
I'm going to watch a restream of GSL, no one else should do that though, and I want you to pay for NASL tickets, and dont watch restreams of that either. thanks.
It's beyond me how people can want a character like that to represent the biggest most important(?) non korean SC2 tournament which is going to need all the support it can get. It's not even like it's only a couple people who don't approve of this, its quite a lot of you haven't noticed.
It's not about "hating" on incontrol, hell i love sotg and he's hilarious, but seriously... seriously... No offense, but I don't think its an overreaction from his defenders when much of the conversation on the Reddit thread at the moment is literally "fuck u incontrol" "Incontrol is a huge asshole" and similar low content postings. It would be one thing if this was a mature, rational discussion, but it has simply descended into nothing more than a public lynching. I didn't even mention reddit in my post. Im talking about this thread. I understand, but it bears mentioning considering it is the origin of the current "drama."
See but where do you expect this to originate when he got banned from TL?
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Will NASL management/employees be invited to compete? What steps will be taken to ensure there is no conflict of interest?
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On February 25 2011 00:45 zeru wrote:
I think people defending incontrol are overreacting. It's not like people are saying incontrol is a terrible person, it's more the point that he's not the right person to represent a big event/organization like this because in my mind he's basically saying:
I'm going to watch a restream of GSL, no one else should do that though, and I want you to pay for NASL tickets, and dont watch restreams of that either. thanks.
It's beyond me how people can want a character like that to represent the biggest most important(?) non korean SC2 tournament which is going to need all the support it can get. It's not even like it's only a couple people who don't approve of this, its quite a lot of you haven't noticed.
It's not about "hating" on incontrol, hell i love sotg and he's hilarious, but seriously... seriously...
You're reading into this "face" thing way too muich. It's not like he's running it by himself. He's a player who happens to be very charismatic; in eSports that's very rare.
It's like Deion Sanders on the NFL network. You need people like that to draw interest in.
I wouldn't trust Incontrol to run a cake stall but as the point man for casting an eSports league, he's the best option by far.
There's a thousand logical, geeky, skinny, respectful SC nerds. Try to find another giant, charasmatic, gosu SC2 playing, bear/man.
My question is:
Could you not raise the team entry limit to 10?
That seems like a much more reasonable figure that teams could work too. 5 is just too little. Teams should be allowed at least 2 players of each race to cover all match-ups and good conversations. That's 6 players at least. The limit of 5 is too low.
You could get teammates to play their matches first; that would avoid any chance of them match-fixing (since dropping games to other people can't possibly help your teammate, despite what IdrA said on SotG).
You could still have 10 divisions and likely still have 10-20 teams in the league overall.
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On February 25 2011 01:39 paksam wrote:
Is it me or do people have it backwards? We are basically questioning his intentions in permanently banning huko. Note that TL has removed his permanent ban meaning his ban was probably(note that I say probably because i am uncertain on TL views) unjust, why can't people just see that?
I think the question that rose up was about the morals of the spokesman of NASL. I'd like to hear iNcontrols version of this before judging anything, but this re-restreaming of GSL with his own commercials sounds really fishy and illegal.
I'm not up in arms with the ban on Huko, it's clearly against the rules to restream even the free stream, I'm curious as to why iNcontrol watches a restream of the HQ (non-free) stream in the first place, instead of paying for it like the rest of us.
Obviously, we have the story from one side only right now, I hope iNcontrol clarifies what really happened.
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edit: sorry I realized post was sorta not necessary seeing as it would cause more rants
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Calgary25963 Posts
On February 25 2011 01:46 Hammurabio wrote:
Will NASL management/employees be invited to compete? What steps will be taken to ensure there is no conflict of interest?
Oooh - Good question. To further this: how will NASL address any conflicts between league sponsors and team sponsors? Address this as a theoretical question (future theoretical sponors) please to avoid any "sponsored by pennies we found in fountains" answers.
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On February 25 2011 00:54 CTStalker wrote:Show nested quote +On February 24 2011 12:01 gibbons_ wrote:Dear iNcontroL and Xeris, While I and the community appreciate what you are doing to the nth degree, I feel like something should be said for you to consider. This is my first post on TeamLiquid - I left the shadows of lurking to offer this advice. You are now operating a business. Whether you like it or not, this is no longer just gaming. This may be your career from here on out. You are well respected community members, but you are no longer just well known SC players making posts about the game. In both posts by iNcontroL and Xeris, you two seem to be taking the criticism of NASL very personally. Your responses are defensive and sometimes rude. You are now speaking to your CUSTOMERS. People who will be buying your high quality streams and clicking on the advertisements during the free streams. Saying things to us like "Santa doesn't exist" and telling us that our arguments are incoherent and, to paraphrase, 'stupid', is very unprofessional. Before you reply to anyone commenting or questioning NASL, please understand that you are the only professional representatives of your business venture. There are real corporations backing this with real money on the line. Before you hit the post button, just take a quick read through your post and ask yourself, "Is this something a Kingston, Sennheiser, Sony Ericsson, Intel, etc. customer service representative would say to a customer?" You guys haven't directly insulted me at all. I'm just trying to offer some friendly advice from someone who knows a modest amount of the business world. Thanks for all your effort and keep it up! I look forward to buying your HQ stream  well said. inc and xeris would certainly do well to listen to this
Gibbons is right but I don't think he goes far enough.
iNcontrol and Xeris are the 'professional representatives' of the NASL everywhere. Not just on these forums but on their streams, on their shows and at events.
Their behaviour represents the brands and logos in front of the organization. For the corporations, this is an advertising exercise. Success depends crucially on public perception. Their representatives must be able to stand up to intense public scrutiny.
This needs to be a serious wake up call.
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On February 25 2011 02:03 neptunesak wrote:
We've all seen the image, is there a need to repost it?
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On February 25 2011 01:58 theSAiNT wrote:Show nested quote +On February 25 2011 00:54 CTStalker wrote:On February 24 2011 12:01 gibbons_ wrote:Dear iNcontroL and Xeris, While I and the community appreciate what you are doing to the nth degree, I feel like something should be said for you to consider. This is my first post on TeamLiquid - I left the shadows of lurking to offer this advice. You are now operating a business. Whether you like it or not, this is no longer just gaming. This may be your career from here on out. You are well respected community members, but you are no longer just well known SC players making posts about the game. In both posts by iNcontroL and Xeris, you two seem to be taking the criticism of NASL very personally. Your responses are defensive and sometimes rude. You are now speaking to your CUSTOMERS. People who will be buying your high quality streams and clicking on the advertisements during the free streams. Saying things to us like "Santa doesn't exist" and telling us that our arguments are incoherent and, to paraphrase, 'stupid', is very unprofessional. Before you reply to anyone commenting or questioning NASL, please understand that you are the only professional representatives of your business venture. There are real corporations backing this with real money on the line. Before you hit the post button, just take a quick read through your post and ask yourself, "Is this something a Kingston, Sennheiser, Sony Ericsson, Intel, etc. customer service representative would say to a customer?" You guys haven't directly insulted me at all. I'm just trying to offer some friendly advice from someone who knows a modest amount of the business world. Thanks for all your effort and keep it up! I look forward to buying your HQ stream well said. inc and xeris would certainly do well to listen to this Gibbons is right but I don't think he goes far enough. iNcontrol and Xeris are the 'professional representatives' of the NASL everywhere. Not just on these forums but on their streams, on their shows and at events. Their behaviour represents the brands and logos in front of the organization. For the corporations, this is an advertising exercise. Success depends crucially on public perception. Their representatives must be able to stand up to intense public scrutiny. This needs to be a serious wake up call.
I agree wholeheartedly, which is why I've posted many times to try and sway a few opinions. Thank you Gibbons for putting objective input into this matter. I just don't know how only a few people think it is a problem that needs to be addressed.
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Im pretty opposed to the "u need to be in a team to play bro" rule.
If GSL had the same rule ppl like marineking and leenock (they weren't part of any team when they first showed up on GSL) would have been kept out and the sc2 would have missed some great players.
If ur gonna compare SC2 to a real sport then it should be golf or tennis.
What team does Tiger Woods play ?
What team does Roger Federer play for?
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EPT
