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My girlfriend is a special education teacher and we were talking about how attention deficit might affect someone's ability to play Starcraft (or any similar RTS). The game is a composite of a bunch of different tasks involving attention, working memory, and of course a lot more, so it's not straightforward to decide how someone with ADD, for example, might perform.
So here's my question: If you have ADD or ADHD and play Starcraft, do you feel your ability to attend to the game affects your gameplay? Do you find there are certain areas where you are weak? (i.e. getting supply blocked, forgetting upgrades or expanding, microing important units, whatever) Or do you think that ADD isn't really an issue in your gameplay?
I'm sure I can't convince her to get her students playing the game (probably because she actually has to do her job ^_^), but it would be interesting to see whether RTS games could be used as a training tool in special ed settings. (Yes I know there are computer games specifically tuned to these purposes, but there's something to be said for making a tool so fun/mainstream you'd want to do it on your own.)
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I've been diagnosed with ADHD and it has no bearing on my skill at starcraft. I think ADD and ADHD is bullshit, its a technical term for lazy and very lazy.
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I suppose that your attention would constantly shift between stuff, so it would either be EASY AS HELL, or your attention would shift to stuff outside the game, and you'd lose.
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I'm ADHD and I'm 2200 master league. The only times I think it matters are in the late late game vs a turtling player. I get so tired of focusing, I just attack even if its a bad idea. Also, if I want to play a bunch of games, I need to take my medicine or I'll get tired of gaming after 2-3 1v1s
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On February 13 2011 11:07 Dance. wrote:
I've been diagnosed with ADHD and it has no bearing on my skill at starcraft. I think ADD and ADHD is bullshit, its a technical term for lazy and very lazy.
TOO TRUE
im a 2300 diamond zerg who has ADHD/ADD and it doesnt affect my play at all, except for late game i just get so frustrated when i can't 1a and steamroll em xD but to be honest it depends if i feel like 'trying' in late game or not.
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Isn't tunnel vision a major issue in most beginner starcraft players? Like people get obsessed with microing their army and thus stop making units entirely and then proceed to lose the game...
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I have ADHD and ive always had the same experience with it: when im focused on something, i focus on it to the extent of ignoring everything else. When i play SC2 i focus solely on SC2 to the detriment of everything else, so i suppose it actually helps me play rather than hurt. Though i'm fucking terrible so maybe i should blame my ADHD.
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But yeah, like Alekh47 said. You have to constantly change your focus between a ton of different and really fun things, so it's not like ADHD is a big deal.
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I have been diagnosed with severe ADD which I find doesn't affect me negatively at all. There are times when Ill be waiting on mins to drop a building etc but then go someplace else real fast, so sometimes it might actually help me to multitask
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sorry what is ADD and ADHD?
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On February 13 2011 11:08 Alekh47 wrote:
I suppose that your attention would constantly shift between stuff, so it would either be EASY AS HELL, or your attention would shift to stuff outside the game, and you'd lose.
ehhh I kind of disagree. I'm ADHD and I work way harder than most of my friends. Right now, it's saturday night, and I'm writing an English paper (when I'm not on a TL break  )
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One has to take the ADD and ADHD in context, if the conditions are by themselves often times the child was just raised poorly (often times) or an extreme red cordial kid. The conditions are more likely to be ''real'' when in conjunction with other conditions so it would be extremely difficult to test.
I'd guess that if you could get them to concentrate on the game and on the important part of the game and to do the right thing they would be pretty good, ADD and ADHD kids often have a lot of energy to burn. But I have the feeling they would just start making a marine dance in circles, or wonder why no body goes back into the barracks depending on severity if it's mild I guess you would just get frustrated but so does everybody.
Just talking about children here not taking it any further.
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On February 13 2011 11:10 Beef Noodles wrote:
I'm ADHD and I'm 2200 master league. The only times I think it matters are in the late late game vs a turtling player. I get so tired of focusing, I just attack even if its a bad idea. Also, if I want to play a bunch of games, I need to take my medicine or I'll get tired of gaming after 2-3 1v1s
You can't attribute trying to end a very long game to ADHD. It's mental exhaustion, and everyone feels it. The problem is, majority of games don't last that long, so it's kind of hard to train your brain to focus that intensly for such a long time.
EDIT:
On February 13 2011 11:13 ShaSKiRa wrote:
sorry what is ADD and ADHD?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attention_deficit_hyperactivity_disorder
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On February 13 2011 11:15 Dance. wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2011 11:10 Beef Noodles wrote:
I'm ADHD and I'm 2200 master league. The only times I think it matters are in the late late game vs a turtling player. I get so tired of focusing, I just attack even if its a bad idea. Also, if I want to play a bunch of games, I need to take my medicine or I'll get tired of gaming after 2-3 1v1s You can't attribute trying to end a very long game to ADHD. It's mental exhaustion, and everyone feels it. The problem is, majority of games don't last that long, so it's kind of hard to train your brain to focus that intensly for such a long time. EDIT: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attention_deficit_hyperactivity_disorder
You may be right, but as someone who has been "diagnosed" with ADD, I was trying to find something it "might" be affected to try and answer the OP's question. I too think it's more mental exhaustion, but who knows? A study to see if ADD players end games more often than non-ADD players might be interesting.
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On February 13 2011 11:07 Dance. wrote:
I've been diagnosed with ADHD and it has no bearing on my skill at starcraft. I think ADD and ADHD is bullshit, its a technical term for lazy and very lazy.
Don't say that, REALLY.
My older brother was diagnosed with both ADD and ADHD. My family is known for having intelligent members: my father is known all over Brazil as the CEO of one of the best Radio companies and Motorola reseller; My mother was a professor, used to be the CEO of the Mail company("Correios") of my city, and now is the financial director of the said company; I, myself, always had excellent grades considering that I slept at least 40% of all my classes, and was first in an exam to enter university.
My older brother, however, never had anything like that. He isn't stupid, he isn't lazy or anything like that. In fact, he is the one that does the most of my family, but nothing related to "SCHOOL". He has excellent drawing skills(doing a particular university for architeture atm), incredible creativity and everything he has passion for, like cars and planes, he HAS passion, knowing EVERYTHING about these.
When he was younger, my mother would help him study for straight 6 hours a day just so he wouldn't repeat the year - which failed by his 5th year of school(about 11 years). He would NOT understand what he was studying - maybe during the first five minutes, but a fly that pass by would completly erase everything he would learn at that moment.
By his 11 years, he was diagnosed with it, something to do with his brain connections even, and had to take Ritalin - a "black-tie", or high danger, medicine - and suddenly he would be able to study. However, his base was already destroyed, so he wouldn't catchup for anything else. Had he been diagnosed earlier - although people didnt even knew about the existance of that at that time - he would be a "genius", since he puts so much effort into anything he does.
ADD and ADHD are REAL and SERIOUS. I see that every single day by my side. I've seen that in many other friends of mine.
Relating to SC2, no, there shouldn't be any problem at all.
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IdrA has ADD (or at least he said he did) and he's one of the best Zergs. Maybe having ADD even helps.
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I have really bad ADHD, and if it indeed is bullshit, then there's something else wrong with me.
When I was younger Starcraft was very therapeutic for me. It was the one thing that I could focus on for extended periods of time-and I would love being able to focus for that long. I spent about four to six hours a day, every day, for about two years straight playing Starcraft. I think it strengthened my focus, I was able to do math problems that I had done years before my ADHD got worse. It actually helped my social skills. I could respond with answers that I picked up in game (mind it was basically low jargon XD).
I was going to say something else, but I got distracted by facebook chat and forgot.
Edit: Looking at some other posts, it seems some people think ADHD isn't real. For me, I'm well know for absolutely destroying advanced math problems at a PhD level, followed an hour later by me not knowing how to spell my name correctly.
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On February 13 2011 11:22 Zephirdd wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2011 11:07 Dance. wrote:
I've been diagnosed with ADHD and it has no bearing on my skill at starcraft. I think ADD and ADHD is bullshit, its a technical term for lazy and very lazy. Don't say that, REALLY. My older brother was diagnosed with both ADD and ADHD. My family is known for having intelligent members: my father is known all over Brazil as the CEO of one of the best Radio companies and Motorola reseller; My mother was a professor, used to be the CEO of the Mail company("Correios") of my city, and now is the financial director of the said company; I, myself, always had excellent grades considering that I slept at least 40% of all my classes, and was first in an exam to enter university. My older brother, however, never had anything like that. He isn't stupid, he isn't lazy or anything like that. In fact, he is the one that does the most of my family, but nothing related to "SCHOOL". He has excellent drawing skills(doing a particular university for architeture atm), incredible creativity and everything he has passion for, like cars and planes, he HAS passion, knowing EVERYTHING about these. When he was younger, my mother would help him study for straight 6 hours a day just so he wouldn't repeat the year - which failed by his 5th year of school(about 11 years). He would NOT understand what he was studying - maybe during the first five minutes, but a fly that pass by would completly erase everything he would learn at that moment. By his 11 years, he was diagnosed with it, something to do with his brain connections even, and had to take Ritalin - a "black-tie", or high danger, medicine - and suddenly he would be able to study. However, his base was already destroyed, so he wouldn't catchup for anything else. Had he been diagnosed earlier - although people didnt even knew about the existance of that at that time - he would be a "genius", since he puts so much effort into anything he does. ADD and ADHD are REAL and SERIOUS. I see that every single day by my side. I've seen that in many other friends of mine. Relating to SC2, no, there shouldn't be any problem at all.
The poster you quoted may have been a bit too broad, but it is arguable that ADD and ADHD now is being over diagnosed to the point of simply being an excuse for children being children, and less intelligent children being not quite as smart as others.
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+ Show Spoiler +On February 13 2011 11:22 Zephirdd wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2011 11:07 Dance. wrote:
I've been diagnosed with ADHD and it has no bearing on my skill at starcraft. I think ADD and ADHD is bullshit, its a technical term for lazy and very lazy. Don't say that, REALLY. My older brother was diagnosed with both ADD and ADHD. My family is known for having intelligent members: my father is known all over Brazil as the CEO of one of the best Radio companies and Motorola reseller; My mother was a professor, used to be the CEO of the Mail company("Correios") of my city, and now is the financial director of the said company; I, myself, always had excellent grades considering that I slept at least 40% of all my classes, and was first in an exam to enter university. My older brother, however, never had anything like that. He isn't stupid, he isn't lazy or anything like that. In fact, he is the one that does the most of my family, but nothing related to "SCHOOL". He has excellent drawing skills(doing a particular university for architeture atm), incredible creativity and everything he has passion for, like cars and planes, he HAS passion, knowing EVERYTHING about these. When he was younger, my mother would help him study for straight 6 hours a day just so he wouldn't repeat the year - which failed by his 5th year of school(about 11 years). He would NOT understand what he was studying - maybe during the first five minutes, but a fly that pass by would completly erase everything he would learn at that moment. By his 11 years, he was diagnosed with it, something to do with his brain connections even, and had to take Ritalin - a "black-tie", or high danger, medicine - and suddenly he would be able to study. However, his base was already destroyed, so he wouldn't catchup for anything else. Had he been diagnosed earlier - although people didnt even knew about the existance of that at that time - he would be a "genius", since he puts so much effort into anything he does. ADD and ADHD are REAL and SERIOUS. I see that every single day by my side. I've seen that in many other friends of mine. Relating to SC2, no, there shouldn't be any problem at all.
You are right of course, and I apologize if I offended you. I guess what I meant to say so many people use ADD as an excuse to why someone doesn't pay attention in school, or why they don't do well.
EDIT: On February 13 2011 11:27 ktimekiller wrote:
The poster you quoted may have been a bit too broad, but it is arguable that ADD and ADHD now is being over diagnosed to the point of simply being an excuse for children being children, and less intelligent children being not quite as smart as others.
He stated it better than me.
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On February 13 2011 11:07 Dance. wrote:
I've been diagnosed with ADHD and it has no bearing on my skill at starcraft. I think ADD and ADHD is bullshit, its a technical term for lazy and very lazy.
Seriously cut the BS! You have no clue about it(even if you allegedly have it) if you think its BS!
If youve ever actually seen a kid with ADHD you'll know that calling them lazy is so wrong and offensive and in very VERY poor taste imo...
Edit: sorry for being so confrontational! I just read your reply post... But please think before saying stuff like that, man 
On February 13 2011 11:27 ktimekiller wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2011 11:22 Zephirdd wrote:On February 13 2011 11:07 Dance. wrote:
I've been diagnosed with ADHD and it has no bearing on my skill at starcraft. I think ADD and ADHD is bullshit, its a technical term for lazy and very lazy. Don't say that, REALLY. My older brother was diagnosed with both ADD and ADHD. My family is known for having intelligent members: my father is known all over Brazil as the CEO of one of the best Radio companies and Motorola reseller; My mother was a professor, used to be the CEO of the Mail company("Correios") of my city, and now is the financial director of the said company; I, myself, always had excellent grades considering that I slept at least 40% of all my classes, and was first in an exam to enter university. My older brother, however, never had anything like that. He isn't stupid, he isn't lazy or anything like that. In fact, he is the one that does the most of my family, but nothing related to "SCHOOL". He has excellent drawing skills(doing a particular university for architeture atm), incredible creativity and everything he has passion for, like cars and planes, he HAS passion, knowing EVERYTHING about these. When he was younger, my mother would help him study for straight 6 hours a day just so he wouldn't repeat the year - which failed by his 5th year of school(about 11 years). He would NOT understand what he was studying - maybe during the first five minutes, but a fly that pass by would completly erase everything he would learn at that moment. By his 11 years, he was diagnosed with it, something to do with his brain connections even, and had to take Ritalin - a "black-tie", or high danger, medicine - and suddenly he would be able to study. However, his base was already destroyed, so he wouldn't catchup for anything else. Had he been diagnosed earlier - although people didnt even knew about the existance of that at that time - he would be a "genius", since he puts so much effort into anything he does. ADD and ADHD are REAL and SERIOUS. I see that every single day by my side. I've seen that in many other friends of mine. Relating to SC2, no, there shouldn't be any problem at all. The poster you quoted may have been a bit too broad, but it is arguable that ADD and ADHD now is being over diagnosed to the point of simply being an excuse for children being children, and less intelligent children being not quite as smart as others.
You do know theres a clear criteria for diagnosis, right!?
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On February 13 2011 11:28 Dance. wrote:+ Show Spoiler +On February 13 2011 11:22 Zephirdd wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2011 11:07 Dance. wrote:
I've been diagnosed with ADHD and it has no bearing on my skill at starcraft. I think ADD and ADHD is bullshit, its a technical term for lazy and very lazy. Don't say that, REALLY. My older brother was diagnosed with both ADD and ADHD. My family is known for having intelligent members: my father is known all over Brazil as the CEO of one of the best Radio companies and Motorola reseller; My mother was a professor, used to be the CEO of the Mail company("Correios") of my city, and now is the financial director of the said company; I, myself, always had excellent grades considering that I slept at least 40% of all my classes, and was first in an exam to enter university. My older brother, however, never had anything like that. He isn't stupid, he isn't lazy or anything like that. In fact, he is the one that does the most of my family, but nothing related to "SCHOOL". He has excellent drawing skills(doing a particular university for architeture atm), incredible creativity and everything he has passion for, like cars and planes, he HAS passion, knowing EVERYTHING about these. When he was younger, my mother would help him study for straight 6 hours a day just so he wouldn't repeat the year - which failed by his 5th year of school(about 11 years). He would NOT understand what he was studying - maybe during the first five minutes, but a fly that pass by would completly erase everything he would learn at that moment. By his 11 years, he was diagnosed with it, something to do with his brain connections even, and had to take Ritalin - a "black-tie", or high danger, medicine - and suddenly he would be able to study. However, his base was already destroyed, so he wouldn't catchup for anything else. Had he been diagnosed earlier - although people didnt even knew about the existance of that at that time - he would be a "genius", since he puts so much effort into anything he does. ADD and ADHD are REAL and SERIOUS. I see that every single day by my side. I've seen that in many other friends of mine. Relating to SC2, no, there shouldn't be any problem at all. You are right of course, and I apologize if I offended you. I guess what I meant to say so many people use ADD as an excuse to why someone doesn't pay attention in school, or why they don't do well.
Yeah, now that you say it I think I kinda of overreacted. Still, people shouldn't "underestimate"(in the lack of a better word) that disfunction, it is real and painful. I do believe that it is overdiagnosed tho.
This reminds me:
+ Show Spoiler +![[image loading]](http://capinaremos.com/files/2010/01/preguica.jpg) I couldn't find the original english image, but it translates as: - The perception of a problem - (Left) Socially Unaccaptable Mom: "Bruno, why didn't you do your homework?" Kid: "Laziness." (Right) Scially Acceptable Mom: "Bruno why didn't ou do your homework?" Kid: " Pathologic Laziness"
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We should probably stop derailing this thread to an argument of the "legitamacy" of ADD. I'm sorry that my comment started it, but we should keep it on the OP topic.
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i have adhd and i am a zerg. i Always forget the get overlords and i have a hard time trying to think of how to react and continue playing i am good at doing things with money but the overlords and also remembering what i hotkeyed is hard. Its alot harder to get better but if i try hard i veryyyy slowly get better but the overlords kill me nice post ^>^
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I think that in game it would only mess up with some late game macro stuff. However, I think it would really hurt if you starting to play the game and need to learn everything about it.
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[B]On February 13 2011 11:07 Dance. wrote:
t. I think ADD and ADHD is bullshit, its a technical term for lazy and very lazy.
This is really crap.
It's like those people saying: "Add and ADHD are sooo hyped"
Oh! Maybe this is because they just recently found out about ADD and that 5% of humans have it and now finally feel a bit more understood?
No! They are just lazy! It's hyped! Terran is Imba! WC3 players suck!
Lazy... Come on man.
The differences with normal brains show up on brain scans.
I'm a 36 year old guy, trying to cope with a normal 9 - 5 job. I struggled all my life with myself. Why I cannot listen to someone talking for more than a few minutes and then my focus is gone. Why I got bored of jobs so fast. Why I had 20 relations that didn't survive for more than a few months.
Made me really depressed, until I found out I have ADD. And now all the puzzle pieces are falling in place.
About the OP, yes it matters. Sometimes I can hyperfocus for days on a row and reach some kind of flow/zone and win a lot more than the 50:50 I win normally.
When I login to SC2 when I really want to play, not just out of habit, then I usually win. If I just log on out of habit I usually lose.
ADD has a lot to do with interest.
My boss acknoledges this and now I shine at my work being the only person able to finish difficult (interesting) last minute projects fast. They don't ask me to repeat it because they know I will fail. I cannot repeat the same trick over and over like normal people can until they are 65 and retire, but I'm the guy who solves weird out of the box problems last minute
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I'm also zerg. It seems like everyone who said they were ADD plays zerg. Hmmm interesting. Maybe thats the race that appeals most to short attention spans
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On February 13 2011 11:50 Beef Noodles wrote:
I'm also zerg. It seems like everyone who said they were ADD plays zerg. Hmmm interesting. Maybe thats the race that appeals most to short attention spans
maybe you guys just love the fact that you can supply unblock via hotkeys without sending workers lol. I love it too, thats why Im zerg.
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On February 13 2011 11:07 Dance. wrote:
I've been diagnosed with ADHD and it has no bearing on my skill at starcraft. I think ADD and ADHD is bullshit, its a technical term for lazy and very lazy.
Are you a psychiatrist? Do you have a PhD. in brain psychology? No? Then please think over whether you should really make an ignorant post.
To OP, I do agree that Starcraft could be a really good tool in helping kids with ADHD. And have fun doing it!
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On February 13 2011 11:50 Beef Noodles wrote:
I'm also zerg. It seems like everyone who said they were ADD plays zerg. Hmmm interesting. Maybe thats the race that appeals most to short attention spans
I recall that Z is much more popular on TL. Could be that.
In any case, I appreciate the responses from everyone. Ignoring the argument about overdiagnosis (which I probably should have seen coming ^_^).. it's interesting that there wouldn't be any real issues in this context, as seems to be the consensus. I do see the point that one poster made about being able to switch attention between several fun foci all the time.
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On February 13 2011 11:10 Beef Noodles wrote:
I'm ADHD and I'm 2200 master league. The only times I think it matters are in the late late game vs a turtling player. I get so tired of focusing, I just attack even if its a bad idea. Also, if I want to play a bunch of games, I need to take my medicine or I'll get tired of gaming after 2-3 1v1s
Hmm, I'm exactly the same way except I even get tired after playing 1 game sometimes. I have no idea if I have ADHD, though.
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My doc likes to compare ADD as a "in the woods" protection mechinism. so you can't focus on one thing but instead you focus on the most pertinent thing at hand--which I suppose could be related to having better combat skills such as having a faster reaction time.
One of the big problems for me (in sc2) is doing one thing for too long and then be like Crap i forgot about macro/teching/expanding etc... so i think add definitely could play as an advantage.
so HAH, it makes me a better gamer. trollface.jpeg
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ADD/ADHD is grossly over-diagnosed. Physicians are paid by pharmaceutical companies to prescribe as much as they do, so something ridiculous like 95% of patients who are diagnosed with ADD/ADHD are in fact just suffering from a strange disease known as puberty or adolescence.
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On February 13 2011 11:07 Dance. wrote:
I've been diagnosed with ADHD and it has no bearing on my skill at starcraft. I think ADD and ADHD is bullshit, its a technical term for lazy and very lazy.
Agreed, to an extent. ADHD/ADD are slapped around a lot towards younger children when they're just energetic or hyper at that age (I'm a prime example).
There was a time (the 80s? I dunno) where these were legitimate. Kinda like how dyslexia is nowadays, though that's a bit different in terms of evaluations and such.
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On February 13 2011 11:27 ktimekiller wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2011 11:22 Zephirdd wrote:On February 13 2011 11:07 Dance. wrote:
I've been diagnosed with ADHD and it has no bearing on my skill at starcraft. I think ADD and ADHD is bullshit, its a technical term for lazy and very lazy. Don't say that, REALLY. My older brother was diagnosed with both ADD and ADHD. My family is known for having intelligent members: my father is known all over Brazil as the CEO of one of the best Radio companies and Motorola reseller; My mother was a professor, used to be the CEO of the Mail company("Correios") of my city, and now is the financial director of the said company; I, myself, always had excellent grades considering that I slept at least 40% of all my classes, and was first in an exam to enter university. My older brother, however, never had anything like that. He isn't stupid, he isn't lazy or anything like that. In fact, he is the one that does the most of my family, but nothing related to "SCHOOL". He has excellent drawing skills(doing a particular university for architeture atm), incredible creativity and everything he has passion for, like cars and planes, he HAS passion, knowing EVERYTHING about these. When he was younger, my mother would help him study for straight 6 hours a day just so he wouldn't repeat the year - which failed by his 5th year of school(about 11 years). He would NOT understand what he was studying - maybe during the first five minutes, but a fly that pass by would completly erase everything he would learn at that moment. By his 11 years, he was diagnosed with it, something to do with his brain connections even, and had to take Ritalin - a "black-tie", or high danger, medicine - and suddenly he would be able to study. However, his base was already destroyed, so he wouldn't catchup for anything else. Had he been diagnosed earlier - although people didnt even knew about the existance of that at that time - he would be a "genius", since he puts so much effort into anything he does. ADD and ADHD are REAL and SERIOUS. I see that every single day by my side. I've seen that in many other friends of mine. Relating to SC2, no, there shouldn't be any problem at all. The poster you quoted may have been a bit too broad, but it is arguable that ADD and ADHD now is being over diagnosed to the point of simply being an excuse for children being children, and less intelligent children being not quite as smart as others.
Agreed, when i was a growing up there was no such thing as ADD or ADHD, the only medication we needed was a switch slap across the head from mom or dad while they said, pay attention you little fucker. Then they would tell us to go play outside for a few hours.
ADD cured.
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On February 13 2011 11:07 Dance. wrote:
I've been diagnosed with ADHD and it has no bearing on my skill at starcraft. I think ADD and ADHD is bullshit, its a technical term for lazy and very lazy.
no. it's actually a serious issue that can affect your life without treatment of some form.
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Supposedly I have ADHD. I was on the gamut of medications while I was young until I told my parents I was sick of taking them because of how I felt when I was on them.
I don't really put too much thought into the extreme amount of cases of ADD or ADHD. I think it's mostly bullshit to peddle medication and make money which causes the kids who really have problems more harm, but that's a different thread. Most of the time I just attribute my attention shifts to "do I give a shit about this?" and if the answer is no then I can't be bothered to show the slightest interest. Accordingly, when something I'm interested in is going on, it has 100% of my focus and usually to a fault so that nothing else can break that focus.
Given this very general description of how I feel about attention "disorders" and how I perceive mine, I don't really feel like it impedes my playing of SC or any other activity I consider worthwhile.
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ADD is serious, jesus christ. People gotta stop shrugging it off cause itll make people who have it not get treatment for this extremely disabling disorder.
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On February 13 2011 12:03 Jerax wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2011 11:07 Dance. wrote:
I've been diagnosed with ADHD and it has no bearing on my skill at starcraft. I think ADD and ADHD is bullshit, its a technical term for lazy and very lazy. Are you a psychiatrist? Do you have a PhD. in brain psychology? No? Then please think over whether you should really make an ignorant post. To OP, I do agree that Starcraft could be a really good tool in helping kids with ADHD. And have fun doing it! You don't need a PhD to realize that ADD is extremely over diagnosed. I know personally many people with other legitimate learning disability like dyslexia who were just thrown on the ADD bandwagon and given no real help, only turning them into med zombies. Just because some guy with a title or degree says it true doesn't mean its always right, their are many cases of bad studys that people still believe like vaccines giving kids autism.
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having add I know that it really only effects you with stuff that doesnt really interest you in the first place for me sitting through english class is a struggle but math was completely fine same with sc2 I feel completely focus whilst playing
but to right it off another way of saying someone is lazy isnt true at all
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I haven't been diagnosed with ADD or ADHD, but I do think that a lot of people who have been don't really act like it or display any symptoms of it at all. I will take that serious cases do exist, but at the rate diagnoses are given out that nowadays it's been given a 'boy cries wolf' effect, if you will: it's been thrown at people everywhere so much that they lump in the actual cases with the not actual cases.
As for playing Starcraft, well, I'd have to say no, unless your ADD/ADHD makes you great at multitasking. Heck if you're good at multitasking in general you'll probably be good at starcraft.
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I remember IdrA said on his stream that he has ADD. Doesn't look like it's hindering him.
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From what I have heard ADD doesnt effect you all that much as you would think as far as Video Games goes... though Maybe Starcraft2 within itself is a whole different story.
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I don't personally have ADD, but my brother does. He had to go on some sort of medication until around age 10-12 (can't remember) where he got taken off because of the side effects. It doesn't really seem like ADD is actually affecting him. He was on the honor roll last semester and he doesn't need much help on doing his homework alone. ADD might be a serious disorder, but, like others have pointed out, it is definitely way overdiagnosed. It seems like they diagnose someone with ADD for just about anything. Not doing his homework - ADD! Talking in class - ADD! Getting a bad grade - ADD!
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Agreed, when i was a growing up there was no such thing as ADD or ADHD, the only medication we needed was a switch slap across the head from mom or dad while they said, pay attention you little fucker. Then they would tell us to go play outside for a few hours.
ADD cured.
Yeah... all people are equal. Little differences in brains cannot occur.... ever.
It's the most complex system in the known universe but if some of those 6bilion brains are a bit different they need a slap across the head.
It's like saying everyone should write with the right hand, people writing left hand need a slap across the head. Gays too. What? You don't believe in my god? Double slap across the head.
Could you say this too?
Agreed, when i was a growing up there was no such thing as Down Syndrom, Alzheimer or Parkinson, the only medication we needed was a switch slap across the head
When you were growing up they didn't know about ADD yet. I wish they had known when I was young. Maybe it's overdiagnosed but ADD does exist.
maybe you had some bad experiences of people using ADD as an excuse. But for me finding out what ADD is finally made me understand myself in such a way that I can do my work and arrange my life in such a way that makes me and the people around me happy.
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i don't think add/adhd would have any impact on how you play sc2. from my experience add/adhd kids are more drawn to video games. they do fine focusing on stuff they want to do but have a hard time focusing on school because, well, it's schoolwork -_-
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Honestly? have you never heard of overdiagnosing add and adhd?
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I believe people with ADD have no problems if they're on a good medication that works, brings their attention level up to average or maybe a little higher.
Taking amphetamines and ritalin when you DON'T have ADD should be considered cheating imo, and I'm sure there's lots of SC2 players who use these, maybe even some pros.
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I've been diagnosed with add but it seems it doesn't affect me that much for starcraft, the only thing i seem to do worse than my opponents are constantly losing my first scouting overlord and forgetting about stuff all over the map i know all people does that but me to a higher extent than others at my level. I'm in masters league though so i can still play the game.
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I have ADD and I find it impossible to play the game for extended periods, even when I want to (day9 hypes me up etc) - in fact I played maybe 30 minutes in the last 2 weeks..
I have no trouble playing MMOs for 6 hours at a time however, even though they are kinda grindy, though I avoid the grindier MMOs.
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On February 13 2011 13:29 Alejandrisha wrote:
i don't think add/adhd would have any impact on how you play sc2. from my experience add/adhd kids are more drawn to video games. they do fine focusing on stuff they want to do but have a hard time focusing on school because, well, it's schoolwork -_-
That's only true when the person gets older or when the activity requires very little logical focus. Using my brother as an example, he fucking ROCKED playing counter strike, because it was all about reactions and less about "oh if it is like this then I do this, if it is like that then I do that!".
I reckon he should be excellent as an aggressive player rather than a reactive player, but maybe that's just him.
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I have kind of strong ADD, and I've taken medication for it since around seventh grade (in college now.)
It doesn't affect me normally, but my medication wears off around 9:30 or so, and I can't win a 1v1 to save my life after that time. It's just impossible to remember all the tasks that need to get done during a game. I lost a game today because after I killed my opponent's push I double expanded, was able to defend the double expansions, and built four refineries - and then forgot to put any workers in the refineries for the rest of the game, even though I could barely make anything but marines. There's a lot of stuff like that - it's much more difficult to keep from being supply capped once my medication wears off, for example. I think if ADD is strong enough it can definitely have a big impact on how you play the game. I can play in mid-diamond if I only play in the afternoon, but if I try to play after 9:30 I can barely beat mid platinum players.
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On February 13 2011 13:00 SleepSheep wrote:
ADD is serious, jesus christ. People gotta stop shrugging it off cause itll make people who have it not get treatment for this extremely disabling disorder.
I think you're making it seem far worse than it actually is. I have ADD, I day dream, I don't pay attention to things, but if I want to, I will. ADD/ADHD are kind of a joke to me to be completely honest.
As for starcraft, I'm high diamond and rising. I don't find it difficult at all to play and concentrate on the game, or anything for that matter.
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Also, if I want to play a bunch of games, I need to take my medicine or I'll get tired of gaming after 2-3 1v1s
I'm a bit worried about this medicine. How tired are you talking about? I think it's quite natural that people get tired after even an couple games, or 30+ minutes let's say. If you're exhausted, that's another story, but if you're feeling groggy, that's pretty normal to me at least.
Just want to share my experience so that you won't "overdose" or use something that's unnecessary xD
Interesting topic though. When I learned that some presidents (Bush) had ADD (or was it ADHD?) and that it helped them in some ways, it was a bit surprising but also interesting.
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To the OP:
I think it's a stretch. As much as we would all love more starcraft in every aspect of our lives, there are better ways to educate.
To everyone talking about whether ADD/ADHD are real:
I think that it's real, but only a very small portion of people diagnosed actually have it. My brother and I have both been diagnosed with ADD. he's dropped out of a local college several times, and I am an actuary. I think he's just lazier than me.
That being said, The idea that someone could have serious difficultly concentrating, beyond the norm and unrelated to upbringing, is not at all far fetched.
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ADD can help your starcraft
A typical syndrome of ADD is shifting thoughts constantly, which can help my brain process quick things fast in starcraft. However in school this is not so good o.0
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ADD is an infestation in america right now because of the euphoric effects of adderall, who the hell wouldn't want to say they can't concentrate and be prescribed some amphetamine salts to abuse on the weekends. I have many, many friends that get Rx'd + eat them for fun, sell them, etc. and aren't really bad ADD or anything of the sort.
btw i have played sc on adderall and it feels like my response speed and reflexes are much better than if i play sober
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I think if anything, ADD might help in Starcraft. There's so many things to do that it occupies your mind entirely. In the beginning? Constantly check scouting, make sure drone timings are correct, then teching, watching gas, watching food, army management, etc. Of course this may be an overstatement to say it might help but I don't think ADD would affect gameplay at all, really.
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On February 13 2011 15:49 XXXSmOke wrote:
ADD can help your starcraft
A typical syndrome of ADD is shifting thoughts constantly, which can help my brain process quick things fast in starcraft. However in school this is not so good o.0
No it can't. It's absolutely ridiculous how so many people claim this without actually knowing anything about ADD. For me it's the opposite, I get extremely easily "bored" while playing which causes my mind to start this internal monologue which constantly jumps from a subject to another, which then disrupts me from playing the game. It's hard to keep up with larva injects and overlod timings, while constantly thinking of these non-starcraft related things. ADD is not being able to think fast, it's about not being able to concentrate on thoughts over a period of time, which is one of the most important aspects of starcraft.
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On February 13 2011 11:07 Dance. wrote:
I've been diagnosed with ADHD and it has no bearing on my skill at starcraft. I think ADD and ADHD is bullshit, its a technical term for lazy and very lazy.
Well, we can all come to 1 of 2 conclusions from this opinion.
1. You are right, and by definition you're confirming yourself to be a very lazy person, as well as spitting in the face of thousands of doctors and researchers (read: people much more qualified than you on the subject) who have studied this. Where is your thesis on this ground-breaking subject? I haven't read any published articles lately on how this is a complete fraud. Surely you have something to back that claim up?
2. You're wrong, and what you're saying is borderline hate-speak on people with this condition (I have a hard time believing you've been diagnosed with this if you have such a negative view about it). As someone with moderate-to-severe ADHD, I graduated at the top of my class, am getting my Pharm.D., and passed the qualification testing into Mensa, so by no means do I lack intelligence or work ethic (I held a full-time job while going to school). However, there are times when someone is talking to me, and the second that they finish talking I've already forgot what they've said because I couldn't focus. How exactly does that translate to me being "very lazy"?
On topic: In my experience, ADHD can benefit the individual in certain circumstances requiring doing many actions at once, such as certain video games, and playing drums. (Compared to the normal struggle of sitting down for 3 hours to study or write a paper..or do an office job, etc.)
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On February 13 2011 16:22 AimForTheBushes wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2011 11:07 Dance. wrote:
I've been diagnosed with ADHD and it has no bearing on my skill at starcraft. I think ADD and ADHD is bullshit, its a technical term for lazy and very lazy. Well, we can all come to 1 of 2 conclusions from this opinion. 1. You are right, and by definition you're confirming yourself to be a very lazy person, as well as spitting in the face of thousands of doctors and researchers (read: people much more qualified than you on the subject) who have studied this. Where is your thesis on this ground-breaking subject? I haven't read any published articles lately on how this is a complete fraud. Surely you have something to back that claim up? 2. You're wrong, and what you're saying is borderline hate-speak on people with this condition (I have a hard time believing you've been diagnosed with this if you have such a negative view about it). As someone with moderate-to-severe ADHD, I graduated at the top of my class, am getting my Pharm.D., and passed the qualification testing into Mensa, so by no means do I lack intelligence or work ethic (I held a full-time job while going to school). However, there are times when someone is talking to me, and the second that they finish talking I've already forgot what they've said because I couldn't focus. How exactly does that translate to me being "very lazy"? On topic: In my experience, ADHD can benefit the individual in certain circumstances requiring doing many actions at once, such as certain video games, and playing drums. (Compared to the normal struggle of sitting down for 3 hours to study or write a paper..or do an office job, etc.)
Too bad graduating at the top of your class didn't teach you to read past the first post before you judge.
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On February 13 2011 11:07 Dance. wrote:
I've been diagnosed with ADHD and it has no bearing on my skill at starcraft. I think ADD and ADHD is bullshit, its a technical term for lazy and very lazy.
^I been diagnosed too it took 10 minutes and a talk with a psychiatrist it is a little BS.
Anyone who is "ADD" or "ADHD" is just a procrastinator and doesn't feel like doing the chores of life. Starcraft 2 is not a chore and is easy to devote your attention to
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EDIT: Too much hate to ADD/ADHD. forget it.
Don't feel like it's a good idea to post it, pming the topic poster.
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A lot of misdiagnosed problems stems from poor diet, exercise and/or sleep.
Drinking too much soda and not enough water can cause physical and mental problems but people see soda as relatively harmless. Not to mention coffee.
A innocent short(8oz) brewed Starbucks coffee that has more caffeine then 2 redbulls. And yet I see people leaving Starbucks with even bigger drinks. All that sugar and caffeine wouldn't be a problem if you could spend that energy being physical in lieu of sitting in front of a computer or TV or classroom or desk. Instead it gives you a high then you crash, then you drink more for a high, then you crash. It creates a deficiency that isn't fixed by sleep or more caffeine as well as the fact that caffeine causes you to pee more, so the water you retain from the drink isn't as much from a comparable sized water.
Same with bad food intake.
You can't really eat your McDonalds or other high sugar/high fat foods without exercising and then wonder why you feel up or down, tired or wired, attentive or disinterested, or any multitude of weirdness that is translated into your SC2 play.
I'm not saying its the fix for everyone's condition, but I bet a majority of people would feel more physically and mentally regulated and have less ADD/ADHD symptoms by getting a bit of exercise, having a better diet and getting better sleep.
All the little things that you don't do to help yourself really does add up!
A few symptoms of too much caffeine.
* anxious
* excitable
* restless
* dizzy
* irritable
* unable to concentrate
* gastrointestinal (GI) aches
* headaches that don't seem to go away
* trouble with sleeping
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2650 Master Protoss....
My ADDHD has a huge impact on my game play.
I am constantly forgetting to macro.
When I take the meds it get even worse.
OFF Meds its easier to switch between multiple areas of interest in the game from Macro to harass to battle and what not...
ON Meds ill be so focused on the macro part ill look up at my mini-map and my army got raped.
or ill engage in a battle and when its over ill have 2k minerals.
All in all I would say that it is a huge handicap for SC2.
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Here is food for thought, maybe your macro is slipping b/c you're tunnel visioning your micro; not b/c you have some disability or took some Adderall.
On a side note, its difficult for EVERYONE to pay attention to things that are tedious and boring. When I am at a morning meeting and my boss is going on about our weekly reports I just zone out. This isn't b/c I have ADD or ADHD, but b/c he along with the subject matter is boring as fuck, period.
Now im not knocking on the small hand full of people that might actually have some disorder that causes their brain to function differently, but im knocking the chobos that want to use ADD and ADHD as a crutch excuse for everything under the sun.
Its time to grow up and start taking responsibility for your actions instead of saying, Whoa is me, I must have ADHD.
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On February 13 2011 11:23 LoLAdriankat wrote:
IdrA has ADD (or at least he said he did) and he's one of the best Zergs. Maybe having ADD even helps.
Source? can you find where he said that?
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Ugh. I think it's a huge mistake to drag mental illness into gaming. I was diagnosed as ADHD and dyslexic at an early age and turned that around without drugs and without treatment. If it's helped you then that's great and I won't put that down. I just think as far as Starcraft II is concerned it has absolutely no bearing whatsoever.
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On February 14 2011 00:12 ALittleLuk wrote:
...
A few symptoms of too much caffeine.
* anxious
* excitable
* restless
* dizzy
* irritable
* unable to concentrate
* gastrointestinal (GI) aches
* headaches that don't seem to go away
* trouble with sleeping
A few symptoms of too little caffeine.
* falling asleep during lecture
* falling asleep while watching a movie
* falling asleep on the desk
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ADD and ADHD are diagnoses that a number of doctors simply tag you with so they can just take your money and still have time for other patients to take money from. Sort of like how many of them just throw anti-depressant pills at you if you are feeling a little sad, calling it "Chemical imbalance" even if you have a legitimate reason for feeling down.
I'm not saying that ADD and ADHD or Depression are all BS Diagnoses, I understand that there are people who legitimately suffer from these "Ailments", but I think they are thrown around much to casually.
That being said, I think nerve damage in my hands affects my gameplay more than my ADD, microing FGs, EMPs and FF's/Storms is rough for me.
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I've got ADHD as well as Tourettes. I do not feel is if it have affected my skill or my ability to improve. I am, and i've always been a gamer and i've never had any troubles with any games. I am not Diamond, i can get to masters if i push ladder for a few days.
I am sitting at a high effective APM.
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Diagnosed with ADD.
Sometimes it can be good. Sometimes it will be bad. On a day like today I have the entire day to play starcraft and I can't focus at all. It makes me play like garbage and forget so many things. Other days like focus will be like a laser beam, and it makes playing starcraft very easy.
I've learned that I can't force it myself to play better on days like today. You just kinda got to roll with it, which sucks because I really wanted to ladder all day.
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On February 13 2011 11:07 Dance. wrote:
I've been diagnosed with ADHD and it has no bearing on my skill at starcraft. I think ADD and ADHD is bullshit, its a technical term for lazy and very lazy.
This summarized my experience as well.
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Not to offend anyone, but I think any psychological disorders like ADD/ADHD that someone is given to make it seem they need extra help/medication is pretty BS. Those labels are just a fancy way of saying "That kid thinks you're really boring so he doesn't pay much attention to you" or "He's pretty lazy so he doesn't focus on his work. He wants to do more fun stuff."
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I may or may not have slight ADHD. (My brother was diagnosed with it, and both my dad and I have tiny, tiny, tiny amounts of slight space-cadet-ness.)
I constantly find myself thinking, "Everyone says that if you watch Day9 every night you will be at least gold, so why am I stuck in silver?"
My conclusion is that it is ADHD, as I can think of a plan, understand it completely, but not execute at all, even though it feels like I am doing everything right.
I mostly forget to constantly scout, or get too distracted by one part of the screen to concentrate on something else. These both sound ADHD-related, so maybe I do have a little bit of it.
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i dont think add or adhd affects your play.
You should just learn mechanics and if you learned the mechanics right. You will always know when to do stuff.
People shouldnt always say i got this and that and then i cant do b. Thats bullshit. Look the way i see it. If you think you cant do something you wil never be able to do it. But if you instead try to find solutions then you will get better. You just need to have good motivation and strong will.
Trust me
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Going to have to agree with the masses saying that it doesn't hurt at all. I also have ADHD, and honestly if anything, I find games like Starcraft actually help if anything. Being able to focus on so many things at once, that tie your attention in and you actually enjoy almost just gives you an advantage as to wanting ot just do everything at once.
However I do find that after like 5+ games I start to get a bit tired of playing and step away for like an hour or so.
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The term ADD is an excuse to sell drugs.
ADD's symptoms are essentially certain personality traits. Some people have trouble focusing on things they don't find interesting, or have shorter attention spans than others, just like a person might be more calm and another one angry. Perhaps we should make CAD, Chronic Anger Disorder, for those people, and sell some sort of drug that could just as easily be sold without a name for it.
Now to the point, as someone who's been diagnosed with this imaginary disorder, I don't think it really has any affect on my play, i'm a low level player, but my skill is increasing in a way that i don't find I am lacking on one area specifically.
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On February 13 2011 11:07 Dance. wrote:
I've been diagnosed with ADHD and it has no bearing on my skill at starcraft. I think ADD and ADHD is bullshit, its a technical term for lazy and very lazy.
Here's the funny thing about science and medicine: it doesn't really matter what you believe. Facts are facts, regardless of how many people think they're not.
And seeing how no one here is a medically trained professional, I'm inclined to say you're all basically spewing bullshit with no real way to back anything up.
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Over diagnose issues are irrelevant to the OP's questions even though I'm sure bad diagnoses are common if people get an ADHD diagnose after talking to a random doctor for 10 minutes. Where I live only specialists(probably a good thing for now) are allowed diagnose ADHD and the average investigation time is probably between 1 and 2 months which might be taking it a bit too far..
More on topic.
Most people with ADHD don't really know how much it effects them which is not very strange. They don't know how it is to be neurotypical and most people are not aware of many details in their thought process and so on. If you ask people if they are good at something, for example rational thinking, logical reasoning, multi tasking, ability to focus etc most will start to think about things they feel they are good at that might fit the question which leads to that most people think they are good at most things.
One of the research tools for ADHD(and other things) basically works like this: Letters pop on a computer screen at different delays. On certain letters the test subject is supposed hit a keyboard key, on others they are not supposed to hit a keyboard key. The scores and timing patterns in this test tend to be extremely different for people with ADHD compared to the neurotypical counterpart. Without any previous knowledge about the test I bet most with diagnosed ADHD/ADD would not think they would "fail miserably" if you explained how it works and nothing else.
That's one detail about ADHD/ADD but I can speculate about how those timings etc effect playing a game like starcraft. In new or unexpected situations the ones with ADHD probably tend to push the wrong buttons more often than others and the actions and timings in situations like that are probably extremely irregular. On the other hand they might be more prepared because of possibly having a lot more scenarios in mind than others. And so on.
"Acting before thinking" does not always have to be a disadvantage, it's quite possible that ADHD/ADD exist because of advantages to begin with.
All in all I could guess ADHD/ADD is a small advantage when the game is interesting enough to make them focus, and a disadvantage when the "ADHD focus" is not triggered.
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It is my opinion that psychologists are too quick to diagnose a lot of mental illness, especially in children and then use drugs to attempt to correct their behavior. I think the ADHD term should be restricted to those who are severely affected. I think that many children are affected by over ingestion of caffeine and sugar at early ages which is sustained for long periods of time on a daily basis. Thus exhibiting symptoms of ADHD simply because of poor diet, lack of exercise and other environmental factors such as poor parenting and lack of discipline. I also feel that perhaps some people are supposed to be different in the functions of their mind and behavior. That the concept of "normalizing" behavior of people, especially children, is flawed. Drugs should be the last resort.
As it relates to starcraft, multitasking is very important. Having your mind bouncing between many different situations and factors shouldn't necessarily be a hurdle. Unless of course, it is affecting your ability to focus on the game itself, which would clearly be a handicap.
I believe that if many of the "great minds" in our history were subjected to modern psychology and treatment, they may not have exhibited the creativity and out of the box thinking which they are remembered for. Perhaps, it is natures intent that some people be different, and it is with an extreme arrogance that some proceed with attempting to correct them or in considering it to be a handicap.
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On February 13 2011 16:19 tealc wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2011 15:49 XXXSmOke wrote:
ADD can help your starcraft
A typical syndrome of ADD is shifting thoughts constantly, which can help my brain process quick things fast in starcraft. However in school this is not so good o.0 No it can't. It's absolutely ridiculous how so many people claim this without actually knowing anything about ADD. For me it's the opposite, I get extremely easily "bored" while playing which causes my mind to start this internal monologue which constantly jumps from a subject to another, which then disrupts me from playing the game. It's hard to keep up with larva injects and overlod timings, while constantly thinking of these non-starcraft related things. ADD is not being able to think fast, it's about not being able to concentrate on thoughts over a period of time, which is one of the most important aspects of starcraft.
Oh yeah, I forgot that every single person with ADD has the same exact same experience...........
I never get bored playing, Starcraft is therapy for me because of all the fast thinking it requires.
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On February 13 2011 12:08 AndAgain wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2011 11:10 Beef Noodles wrote:
I'm ADHD and I'm 2200 master league. The only times I think it matters are in the late late game vs a turtling player. I get so tired of focusing, I just attack even if its a bad idea. Also, if I want to play a bunch of games, I need to take my medicine or I'll get tired of gaming after 2-3 1v1s Hmm, I'm exactly the same way except I even get tired after playing 1 game sometimes. I have no idea if I have ADHD, though.
you dont have ADHD and niehter does he of course his medicine makes it so he can mass game its designed so u can mass study boring ass shit
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Hah. I think Starcraft is the reason I'm so ADD.
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Russian Federation89 Posts
Every single human being has ADD. Don't let anyone convince you otherwise.
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I would say I'm fairly ADD, I like to watch the battle as it's happening while I play so I'll forget to make SCVs or build supply depots.
Strangely enough I only forget that part. I can make units and do a battle at the same time. I just for some reason can't make SCVs constantly. :[
P.S. 3k Masters
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I have a sever case of ADHD, and as long as I can get focused on the game, I can play it.
I've very strong on my macro, ups and all, (weak on supply blocked, but eh), but essentially, anything that requires forethought, I can do well. I plan it out, and I slowly and carefully do it. (I play terran, Diamond).
Watching the minimap I find is pretty hard for me, currently working on it, and my unit control/micro is terrible.
I don't find that ADHD affects my ability to play video games at all. It'd be interesting to see any results from this ^_^
Ok, after reading all of the ADHD exists/doesn't exist:
I've been diagnosed multiple times. While it may be over diagnosed, there is a certain % of the population that IS correctly diagnosed. I also find that medication REALLY works. I've stopped taking it, as I hated the side effects.
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On February 14 2011 09:09 Reborn8u wrote:
It is my opinion that psychologists are too quick to diagnose a lot of mental illness, especially in children and then use drugs to attempt to correct their behavior. I think the ADHD term should be restricted to those who are severely affected. I think that many children are affected by over ingestion of caffeine and sugar at early ages which is sustained for long periods of time on a daily basis. Thus exhibiting symptoms of ADHD simply because of poor diet, lack of exercise and other environmental factors such as poor parenting and lack of discipline. I also feel that perhaps some people are supposed to be different in the functions of their mind and behavior. That the concept of "normalizing" behavior of people, especially children, is flawed. Drugs should be the last resort.
As it relates to starcraft, multitasking is very important. Having your mind bouncing between many different situations and factors shouldn't necessarily be a hurdle. Unless of course, it is affecting your ability to focus on the game itself, which would clearly be a handicap.
I believe that if many of the "great minds" in our history were subjected to modern psychology and treatment, they may not have exhibited the creativity and out of the box thinking which they are remembered for. Perhaps, it is natures intent that some people be different, and it is with an extreme arrogance that some proceed with attempting to correct them or in considering it to be a handicap. Many interesting points in your post.
For one, what is mental illness, should ADD/ADHD be called mental illness? I don't think so personally, personality type is probably a better term. The use of the ADHD term itself does not feel very important. It's a term for something like all other terms and it's the negative symptoms that should be treated not the ADHD.
Not sure if sugar and caffeine make people ADHD-like. Possibly what many think ADHD/ADD is like though.
Thus exhibiting symptoms of ADHD simply because of poor diet, lack of exercise and other environmental factors such as poor parenting and lack of discipline.
You are probably both right and wrong. Diet and exercise probably effect people with ADHD like everyone else so it should not be irrelevant. The environment is probably extremely important but most parents that think they can fix it probably make the kids futures worse instead of better. For example all research seem to indicate that people with ADHD do way better when you remove choice and when you remove choice there is no responsibility. It's hard to know if more or less responsibility prepares kids with ADHD for the future in a good way or if it will make them perform worse as adults. But if you for example try to make them take responsibility for their own school work you will likely end up with a bad result even if you tried to be very disciplined about it. And bad result because of bad parenting means the parenting was, well... bad regardless of the parents intentions.
Which leads to That the concept of "normalizing" behavior of people, especially children, is flawed Yes it might be but the problem is that the environment is normalized and the people living in it are different. So change the environment someone might say, or isn't that already happening and has been for hundreds of years?
No, it's the other way around and that's how we want it to be. So what is left, normalizing people so they work properly in the normalized environment or ignore the environmental problems we've created for the ADHD/ADD personality type?
Which leads to the drugs part. When we swallow things, like milk and pork chops, things happen with our body and brain. Is it bad to swallow certain things? I would say yes but the term drug is probably not the best reference point to use there.
I'm starting to get too far from the original topic but I believe that if many of the "great minds" in our history were subjected to modern psychology and treatment, they may not have exhibited the creativity and out of the box thinking which they are remembered for. Perhaps, it is natures intent that some people be different, and it is with an extreme arrogance that some proceed with attempting to correct them or in considering it to be a handicap. can more easily be applied to gaming.
It's probably correct that for example feeling depressed has an effect on creative work. A lot of art would probably not exist if the creators were on citaolpram instead of alcohol or whatever but odds are they would have been happier. Both of those most likely make you much worse at playing starcraft but for example methylphenidate probably makes people with ADHD better players. We can't know what effect methylphenidate or more knowledge about the human brain would have had on certain great minds, perhaps we'd be more developed by now or we would have had more "great minds", who knows.
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On February 14 2011 07:29 OPSavioR wrote:Show nested quote +On February 13 2011 11:23 LoLAdriankat wrote:
IdrA has ADD (or at least he said he did) and he's one of the best Zergs. Maybe having ADD even helps. Source? can you find where he said that?
He was doing a Q&A on his stream.
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I dont think ppl without add or adhd can say that its not a big deal =.= it is not right ppl with learning disabilitys try 200% harder they are not lazy.
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I can help shed light on this. I have ADD and it helps to a certain degree but after the first 15 minutes or so you suddenly start losing track of things. When im on my medication i definitly play faster and can keep a better focus on multiple things. ADD is about spreading your focus too thin due to an inability to control your mind.
and to those in this thread claiming that ADD doesnt exist -
I am in med school with mostly lecture classes and I was having a very difficult time in listening to what the teacher said until I went on my medication. Now I hardly take notes and can remember damn near everything said. When I forget to take my medication at the start of the day I have a very difficult time in classes and can recall little of what the teacher said past the first 20 minutes of class.
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To all the ignorant douchebag idiots claiming it's bullshit: ADHD is very real, and might aswell be the reason I've grown up depressed. I've been depressed since 7th grade, now I'm 20 years old and I barely manage.
I was so good at math when I was little I got my own teacher because I was years ahead of my class, now I'm close to failing math class (9 years later). I can't study it; I just see digits, I can't think about them, they're just there. You have no idea how that feels.
How can you not even google the thing before claiming it's bullshit? It's you people that always make it well in this world: the ignorant, cold hearted and super sure of themselves idiots.
To the OP: I searched for this thread because I thought about the exact same thing last night. I think it definately without question is an asset IF you like every second of playing, but when it's not as fun, if only for 5 seconds, you start losing greatly because you can't focus on anything, and in Starcraft that time of total chaos (in your mind) is devastating.
I think the reason so many with ADHD in here say it doesn't have a negative impact on them is because they love Starcraft.
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I have self-diagnosed ADD, and I think it helps me in terms of starcraft.
I excel at RTS because I am able to frantically switch between things and I am always moving my mouse and clicking, which keeps my apm and agility up for when I actually need it. It helps me swtiching between microing, macroing, etc though its still somewhat sporadic. I don't put a whole lot of time into the game, I have friends that put in twice as much and are stuck in gold league but I am a competent master zerg.
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I am a "2e" adult who found all the hate and doubt in this thread hurtful (hypersensitivity is a trait of ADHD too, did you know?). Consider this a public service announcement for ADHD sufferers and doubters alike:
ADDitude Magazine is the best web site I have ever found in my adult life for helping cope with my disorder. Remember that dealing with your symptoms is about 50-50 behavior modification and medication; this helps tremendously with the former. The first time I found this site I clicked around it furiously for days and was overwhelmed reading all of the comments by people whose lives and relationships have been devastated by ADHD - and a few who manage to live well despite it. Oh nevermind they're all faking for teh 3vil drug companeeeey m0n3y$s rite?
Dr. Thomas E. Brown of the Yale School of Medicine runs my number two pick website. Creator of the Brown ADD Scales and prolific researcher in the field of attention spectrum disorders, Dr. Brown has written many excellent books and articles (yes, peer-reviewed research as well) that helped me discover what parts of "me" were really me and what parts were merely inherent to the disorder. The information about comorbidities, executive function management, and "typical" life paths of high IQ ADHD sufferers was life-changing!
ADHD.com has links to more resources. Their myth debunking pages, respectively - chadd.org, add.org, and help4adhd.org. One more link for doubters - ADHD Info Sheets. And haters, your kind have been calling ADHD sufferers stupid, fakers, lazy, spoiled and weak-willed for over a century (wait, you thought it was a new diagnosis? lol). So shut up with that stuff. It’s ignorant and insulting. I can try to educate the simply unknowing but overgrown schoolyard bullies will be ignored.
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As to the OP, the way a particular ADHD sufferer interacts with StarCraft depends on what type of the disorder they have. I find the experience of laddering tweaks my anxious reflex too much but enjoy a kind of 'runner's high' when playing at high speed. Managing many things at once is difficult more because I suck than because of ADHD, but things like Fastest Map Possible type maps are much more fun as they minimize the economic management aspect of the game.
Overall I would say that StarCraft (2 especially) could be a good tool to help special education students but getting the motivation to play is tough even if you love it. The stress of a testing situation is not what motivates most ADHD kids and sitting down to play 1v1 feels a lot like that.
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EPT
