EPTIMBALANCED! - Introduction - Page 42
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If you have criticism, you need to address the content, not the hosts. Idra and Artosis are 2 (1.5) Zerg players, but you can't point that out and then blanket them as biased. Respond to the content. You can't tell them to "get 2 Terran and Protoss players". That's fucking obtuse advice. "Yo just get 4 more high level players to record with you." Yes, I think everyone sees the value in getting it, but it's not practical. Respond to the content and use evidence / logic to back up your claims. | ||
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aka_star
United Kingdom1546 Posts
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tarath
United States377 Posts
Or they are talking from their experiences from the Korean ladder while you do not have that experience and you flame them here They straight up said in the video they wanted to consider the pro level games which I think means that the GSL (a professional tournament) where zerg tends to win ZvP is a much better set of games to consider than random opinions based on 2 players ladder matches. I really don't see how you can argue that random ladder matches should trump GSL results. | ||
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storm8ring3r
Germany227 Posts
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ZomgTossRush
United States1041 Posts
How far do you plan on keeping this show going for? If each episode focused on a certain unit you would have a cap at X amount of units. Would you guys continue to loop around to keep up with current trends or would you possible gear your show around more expansive discussion topics, such as map imbalance(more specifically) or even build order imbalance? | ||
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MrSpider
France173 Posts
Go watch Dimaga, I wont talk about his amazing victory against Kas but he has been playing against 2 good protoss, Adel and Mana in the Go4sc2 finals. We learn a lot about his play How to macro up without being too drone heavy, learn timing : when expanding, when switching to idra, when switching to corrupters, and how to flank colossus with roach and idra. Map are changing, I think its time to stop discussing about units who might be imbalance, talking about map and army positionning could be better. | ||
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DND_Enkil
Sweden598 Posts
On February 04 2011 20:02 -Archangel- wrote: Or they are talking from their experiences from the Korean ladder while you do not have that experience and you flame them here Look, i tried to respond to thier arguments and not rip them because of who they are. Now i think it is only fair that you defend their arguments based on the arguments not who they are. Because if you defend thier position simply with "they play korean ladder so they must be right" we are devolving into discussing Artosis and Idra and what wieght we should put on thier personal opinions regarding balance. Just what the mod-warning are telling us not to. Blindly defending them because who they are are just as bad as blindly flaming them because who they are imo. | ||
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WhiteDog
France8650 Posts
Korea is a country with a deep esport history: there is a lot of terran and zerg players because GSL is definitly taking heritage from SC1 where protoss was an underused and underdevelopped race for so long. For the moment GSL is too linked with this legacy so the race repartition is biased. Look at tournament world wide: zerg is clearly behind, with protoss and terran always taking the first spot. The last TSLOpen are a good exemple of that. | ||
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
On February 04 2011 20:55 MrSpider wrote: Yup it's a kind of funny "show". Go watch Dimaga, I wont talk about his amazing victory against Kas but he has been playing against 2 good protoss, Adel and Mana in the Go4sc2 finals. We learn a lot about his play How to macro up without being too drone heavy, learn timing : when expanding, when switching to idra, when switching to corrupters, and how to flank colossus with roach and idra. Map are changing, I think its time to stop discussing about units who might be imbalance, talking about map and army positionning could be better. You realize Dimaga whines about the current state of Zerg just as much as every other top Zerg? | ||
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Zips
United States146 Posts
On February 04 2011 20:13 Skyze wrote: for protoss if you DONT get collosus, you are 99% screwed. 1) Thanks for proving idra/artosis' point. Colossi shouldn't be as necessary as they are now -- there should be more variety, if nothing else. 2) nobody has fucking said "nerf colossi, colossi definitely need nerfs! I mean Jesus, have you read anything in the thread at all, or even watched the video? | ||
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MrSpider
France173 Posts
On February 04 2011 20:59 syllogism wrote: You realize Dimaga whines about the current state of Zerg just as much as every other top Zerg? LOL, I think your statement is just useless for me and it just answer to your own issue. Dimaga whine a bit sure, but did I talk about whinning? No I talk about how to deal with protoss, we get more information than Idra and Artosis video. Then we will have Lalush, Ciara, Nerchio meeting those two guys to have a daily imabalance show, how great it is. | ||
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syllogism
Finland5948 Posts
On February 04 2011 21:05 MrSpider wrote: LOL, I think your statement is just useless for me and it just answer to your own issue. Dimaga whine a bit sure, but did I talk about whinning? No I talk about how to deal with protoss, we get more information than Idra and Artosis video. Then we will have Lalush, Ciara, Nerchio meeting those two guys to have a daily imabalance show, how great it is. The point being he doesn't think he has figured out a way to deal with Protoss late game, which I , apparently mistakenly, assumed was your point. Anyway, while having all these top players participate would be great, there's little chance of that happening | ||
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PandaCub
United States7 Posts
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DND_Enkil
Sweden598 Posts
On February 04 2011 20:56 WhiteDog wrote: People need to stop using GSL to talk about balance and race repartition. Korea is a country with a deep esport history: there is a lot of terran and zerg players because GSL is definitly taking heritage from SC1 where protoss was an underused and underdevelopped race for so long. For the moment GSL is too linked with this legacy so the race repartition is biased. Look at tournament world wide: zerg is clearly behind, with protoss and terran always taking the first spot. The last TSLOpen are a good exemple of that. I will start off by saying i agree that Zerg is struggling right now and that something needs to be done about them, i just dont agree on collossus being the problem. If you want to use tha last TSL open as an example of collosus being overpowered there is a pretty big problem, in R32 and forward no P beat Z... Lalush was taken out by Mvr (T). dde was taken out by allaboutyou (T). zionman was taken out by SjoW (T). Morrow was taken out by TLO (R). Ciara was also taken out by TLO (R). | ||
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FakeDouble
Australia676 Posts
Looking forward to more of these, great work guys. P.S. The audio idea someone mentioned is a fantastic idea, i would definitely listen to these while on the move if i could. | ||
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Severedevil
United States4839 Posts
Small, constrained maps favor Colossi. So of course the dominant Protoss strategies on small, constrained maps will be Colossi, in large numbers. And it will be nearly impossible to defeat a large Colossus ball without air units, since ground will get stuck and butchered in tight spaces. Complaining that Protoss need Colossi on maps that grossly favor Colossi is pretty tone-deaf. Large maps, by contrast, will disfavor Colossi and favor more harass-y styles. DT/Phoenix, or drop play, are drastically more effective when the map has space to do anything but build a muscular army and crash it against the opponent's muscular army. | ||
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duartesito
Dominican Republic32 Posts
On February 04 2011 20:15 aka_star wrote: Good show, I enjoyed it very much. I would like to suggest you guys put an audio version up too for us podcasters, this can be done quite easily by using http://www.listentoyoutube.com/ I did this for episode 1 and only took 2 minutes which was great. This, great suggestion. Great show, can't wait to see/hear more! | ||
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DragoonPK
3259 Posts
 . Bringing out 1 guest a show might be fun over skype or something. Gogo Idra and Artosis I support your work :D! | ||
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Apolo
Portugal1259 Posts
On February 04 2011 19:41 n0ise wrote: The source is as important as the content. This is a forum where people went as far as suggesting special 'areas' where only known, quality players could post their opinions since generally, that would lead to a much 'educated' discussion. So basically, if a random posts A people won't care, if a known player posts A, people will respect it. And it should be this way. Separating the content from the background of the source lacks depth and can create no actual statement about the product as a whole. And the source of the video is nothing but biased heavily towards races, players and anything SCII - related. In any case, interesting idea. Would love to see other names doing it. As it is, I don't see how anyone can take this seriously. The source is important in the way that it gives you the likelyhood of what you are about to read is right / wrong. Still, it's no way a foolproof method to know if it's correct or not. Many times people with authority in a field are utterly wrong, but people believe in them because they "are good at what they do, they should know". That's not the case, they are wrong too, a lot of times, just less times than the average. Even the other day i had this friend whose friend was a pilot on F1. Sad to say this pilot didn't know slicks grip better than grooved tyres on dry road. Suffice to say, as soon as the pilot told him grooved gripped better, he closed his mind, and would believe 100% in him. We shouldn't have this here. This also to say that there's no point arguing aggainst them two, Idra and Artosis. Better thing to do is to discuss directly what they said in the video, i.e., about colossus being OP or not. | ||
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tracoes
United States45 Posts
On February 04 2011 20:06 Linkirvana wrote: Why not? I find it interesting that you call Artosis and Idra biased, and not truthsayers for example, calling them biased would imply that you know better than these 2 players. You've clearly judged their past words as "bullshit QQ'ing" which in turn leads you to assume this is also bullshit QQ'ing. Making assumptions is never a good thing, and who the hell do you think you are calling them biased? On topic: I thought this first episode was interesting, and I will definitely watch any upcoming shows. so we should believe what bill o Riley says because he's on national television?? rofl neither of them are good enough to be judgmental | ||
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WhiteDog
France8650 Posts
On February 04 2011 21:19 DND_Enkil wrote: I will start off by saying i agree that Zerg is struggling right now and that something needs to be done about them, i just dont agree on collossus being the problem. If you want to use tha last TSL open as an example of collosus being overpowered there is a pretty big problem, in R32 and forward no P beat Z... Lalush was taken out by Mvr (T). dde was taken out by allaboutyou (T). zionman was taken out by SjoW (T). Morrow was taken out by TLO (R). Ciara was also taken out by TLO (R). I was not trying to say that P was OP against Z, I was only answering to everyone saying that in GSL protoss was not doing better than Z. No matter what people say, worldwide, protoss are doing quite well except for GSL and the korean scene (except MC). Anyway, if you are saying that the last TSL Open with 3 protoss and 1 terran cannot be used to make assumption about protoss current level ? I think not. I don't think colossus are imbalanced, just almost impossible to counter with ground units because of their range + force field. | ||
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