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On January 06 2011 02:45 Shinkugami wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2011 01:16 reapsen wrote:
I'm afraid i have to disagree. Behaving in a "bad" way is not necessarily linked to the age. Take Quakelive for example. I assume most of the players are well above 16, in fact i know a lot of Quakelivers between 25 and 35. And stuff that is considered as beeing "bm" in the SC Community is really not worth mentioning for most QL Players.
As i came to SC2 during the beta in march and started to look into the community i was utterly suprised of the standards for "good behavior". Its like coming from a shabby hotdog stand to a 4-star-restaurant. Suddenly you have to obey this code of behaviour that you are not used to. For me, i am totally fine with beeing called a "nub" or beeing "lol"ed at. The same way i throw out the occasional "lol" myself. Of course i am fine with players leaving without "gg", why should that bother me? Most of the times i even find it quite amusing.
So eventually i figured i wouldn't write anything in the chat at all, but even thats considered bm by most players. I mean come on, give me a break. Good manners are important for the pro's, as they represent their teams and stuff, but for 95% of casuals and amateur players, i don't care at all. At long last someone with enough video game background to understand that. To be honest this virtual bull "code of conduct" is more offensive than any bm anyone could ever throw around. I mean for people who made their way with video games like quake 1-2-3 tf/dota etc where death threats, racist abuse and totally rampant profanity, the "sc2 bm of not gg'ing or saying noob" is a total laughingstock and it truly puzzles me how anyone could be "offended" by such minor shit ?
Being a crowd of foaming at the mouth offensive social retards is not an image I want associated with both the games that I play and the e-sports scene.
Additionally in your later post you state his behavior isn't something the new generation of gamers will understand. As someone who played CoD, MoHAA, Quake 3, UT, CS 1.3-1.6, Myth:TFL and Myth 2 I'd say that the general behavior of "gamers" has only grown worse over time.
There's nothing to be gained by cultivating poor behavior amongst gamers whereas having a clean-cut image promotes the game culture as respectable.
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Wow, thats crazy. Well done for him.
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On January 06 2011 06:26 Butcherski wrote:
Comparing Idra's BM to nanis BM makes no sense. Idra rages at the game and tells the other player how terrible he is at the game. He also only BM's in ladder game. Naniwa saying "i hope your mom gets cancer and dies" in a tournament game is much worse.
Well, ACTUALLY, some part of that quote belongs to me :D
The full segment being (after I usually lost to some kind of bullcrap cheese) : "I hope your mother gets cancer and some maniac kidnaps and tortures your (future) kids to teach you a lesson about fair play".
Used to throw it a lot at the beginning of SC2 ^___^ Usually got me a lot of "omgomgomg me report u ban ban". Sad for them some blizz people still have a sense of humor and recognized the legendary quote of Q1 (Moman didn't play Q1 as far as i know) :-p
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On January 06 2011 08:17 Shinkugami wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2011 06:26 Butcherski wrote:
Comparing Idra's BM to nanis BM makes no sense. Idra rages at the game and tells the other player how terrible he is at the game. He also only BM's in ladder game. Naniwa saying "i hope your mom gets cancer and dies" in a tournament game is much worse. Well, ACTUALLY, some part of that quote belongs to me :D The full segment being (after I usually lost to some kind of bullcrap cheese) : "I hope your mother gets cancer and some maniac kidnaps and tortures your (future) kids to teach you a lesson about fair play". Used to throw it a lot at the beginning of SC2 ^___^ Usually got me a lot of "omgomgomg me report u ban ban". Sad for them some blizz people still have a sense of humor and recognized the legendary quote of Q1 (Moman didn't play Q1 as far as i know) :-p
Bragging about being an asshole just makes you look like a child. No-one cares what 'legendary' insult you've been using on ladder.
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On January 05 2011 02:04 Shockk wrote:
Assuming this was actually done by Naniwa:
It makes me really sad that this was achieved by one of the most bad mannered and unreliable professionals in the SC2 scene. There's IdrA BM, which can be annoying, but at least his arrogance is partly justified considering his success and skill.
But Naniwa's manners - that's the worst possible example you can get. He screws up his life, his education, the relations to his parents for gaming. He screws up sponsorships, a payed apartment and membership in a international clan because of unreliability. And everyone you ask he's played with, everyone who hosted tournaments with him will have some story to tell about how much of a douche he is most of the time.
And some people are actually cheering for him when the best he deserves is pity.
I got more respect for him than you casual 2.5 k platinum players who thinks your opinion matters...
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On January 06 2011 08:24 BasedSwag wrote:
Bragging about being an asshole just makes you look like a child. No-one cares what 'legendary' insult you've been using on ladder.
Gotta remember that quote first originated like... aw... 15 years ago.
Making me look like a child ? Most of the bm-whiners around here weren't even born at that time, what's it to them ?
On January 06 2011 08:04 silentsod wrote:
Being a crowd of foaming at the mouth offensive social retards is not an image I want associated with both the games that I play and the e-sports scene.
Additionally in your later post you state his behavior isn't something the new generation of gamers will understand. As someone who played CoD, MoHAA, Quake 3, UT, CS 1.3-1.6, Myth:TFL and Myth 2 I'd say that the general behavior of "gamers" has only grown worse over time.
There's nothing to be gained by cultivating poor behavior amongst gamers whereas having a clean-cut image promotes the game culture as respectable.
I think you're mistaken about the generation. I was speaking of "first generation" gamers who started on games like duke nukem, blood and quake 1/quake armaggon on IPX/LAN.
We've gone thru so much abuse, profanity and bad manners (in astronomical rates above what is considered "bm" in SC2) that we sort of "get it".
Ironically the bm whiners seem to stick with games that attract a lot of kids. Since most people here WERE kids at the time of SC1 (more or less), it doesn't quite register with the "newcomers".
Personally it is the prime reason I continue to flame far and wide in games; Just picturing the face of some dumbass stick-up-the-ass kid who wants to have me banned for telling him precisely what kind of worthless noobish scum he is CRACKS ME UP :D
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Just because it's done in a lot of games to a far worse degree doesn't make it any more desirable. What are you complaining about? Do you want more bad mannered players? Do you want to be more bad mannered?
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On January 06 2011 08:50 Incanus wrote:
Just because it's done in a lot of games to a far worse degree doesn't make it any more desirable. What are you complaining about? Do you want more bad mannered players? Do you want to be more bad mannered?
I want people to get over freakin' text on the net and not freak out like some psychotic stuck-up lobbying group when someone doesn't follow their retarded self-proclaimed all powerful "code of conduct".
Bm-whiners should just go join some cult.
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On January 06 2011 08:30 Shinkugami wrote:
Personally it is the prime reason I continue to flame far and wide in games; Just picturing the face of some dumbass stick-up-the-ass kid who wants to have me banned for telling him precisely what kind of worthless noobish scum he is CRACKS ME UP :D
Dont know if you are serious but if so, you are one of those people that are not very welcome on a site like TL. People tend to be polite and nice to each other. If you think that this kind of behaviour equals "some dumbass stick-up-the-ass kid ", you may have just choosen the wrong forum to post on.
Now go ahead and either tell me that you werent serious or that my replay CRACKS YOU UP
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On January 06 2011 08:59 Shinkugami wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2011 08:50 Incanus wrote:
Just because it's done in a lot of games to a far worse degree doesn't make it any more desirable. What are you complaining about? Do you want more bad mannered players? Do you want to be more bad mannered? I want people to get over freakin' text on the net and not freak out like some psychotic stuck-up lobbying group when someone doesn't follow their retarded self-proclaimed all powerful "code of conduct". Bm-whiners should just go join some cult.
Dude, calm down... it's called being polite, I'm sorry you have trouble understanding why a code of courtesy is a good thing. It's something you might want to consider in everyday life as well.
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this thread is lol
starcraft = serious business
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And it might also be advisable in public rooms, since England probably also has a code of civil law. Civilized behaviour is encouraged.
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On January 06 2011 09:11 UniversalSnip wrote:
Dude, calm down... it's called being polite, I'm sorry you have trouble understanding why a code of courtesy is a good thing. It's something you might want to consider in everyday life as well.
I am calm :-)
That's the entire damn point of this whole mess. Sure people can be polite and courteous to each other in life but this is a freakin' game.
See I wasn't near angry or pissed when I wrote the message you quote yet you immediately assumed and convinced yourself I was.
Now technically speaking, a code of conduct has some grounds in real life but trying to impose retarded meaningless "rules" such as "thou shall always gg" or crap like that is entirely ridiculous.
A because nobody appointed any of the ones trying to impose it boss and
B because a million people thinking the earth should be flat doesn't mean it is.
If you fail to see where I'm going with the "B", read up on fanatics, which is exactly what the "anti bm crowd" consists of.
Should you dissect this whole "rule of pro gaming" thing you could probably say it's an attempt to gain some virtual authority by people who otherwise have none.
I also read somewhere upwards one guy saying that "not being an asshole/bm/etc" means you're a pro/good player. Well apparently his little dream falls flat since the 2 most known and successful players of SC2 (at least for now) are both hardcore "bm'ers". ;-)
Edit: It's not like I'm trying to win the battle for the right to bad manners here but this whole 'virtual' code of conduct mess feels too familiar. Every single group/community/people who tried that kind of crap over the years have sooner or later all been flagged as the e-fascist laughingstocks of gaming (ask TDA or the first idiots of quakecon) and TL will be no exception if this shit keeps up...
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Sure, joking around with your friends is fine, but when you ruin the gaming experience for other people (whether you are calling them noobs or laughing at their replays) I don't see how that is a good thing. The world is filled with enough trash talk, can't we be civil with one another for a change?
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On January 06 2011 09:20 Shinkugami wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2011 09:11 UniversalSnip wrote:
Dude, calm down... it's called being polite, I'm sorry you have trouble understanding why a code of courtesy is a good thing. It's something you might want to consider in everyday life as well. I also read somewhere upwards one guy saying that "not being an asshole/bm/etc" means you're a pro/good player. Well apparently his little dream falls flat since the 2 most known and successful players of SC2 (at least for now) are both hardcore "bm'ers". ;-)
check your logic
only a small minority of top gamers act this way, and they make a lot of noise (which is probably where your ill informed opinion comes from)
the fact that they make a lot of noise detracts from everyone who wants e-sports to grow into maturity as an industry
if i can make the ever-dangerous sports analogy, the only sports with significant amounts of bm are completely idiotic (WWE I'm lookin at you), while sports with some level of mutual respect between players tend to have more lasting success
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On January 06 2011 09:20 Shinkugami wrote:Show nested quote +On January 06 2011 09:11 UniversalSnip wrote:
Dude, calm down... it's called being polite, I'm sorry you have trouble understanding why a code of courtesy is a good thing. It's something you might want to consider in everyday life as well. I am calm :-) That's the entire damn point of this whole mess. Sure people can be polite and courteous to each other in life but this is a freakin' game. See I wasn't near angry or pissed when I wrote the message you quote yet you immediately assumed and convinced yourself I was. Now technically speaking, a code of conduct has some grounds in real life but trying to impose retarded meaningless "rules" such as "thou shall always gg" or crap like that is entirely ridiculous. A because nobody appointed any of the ones trying to impose it boss and B because a million people thinking the earth should be flat doesn't mean it is. If you fail to see where I'm going with the "B", read up on fanatics, which is exactly what the "anti bm crowd" consists of. Should you dissect this whole "rule of pro gaming" thing you could probably say it's an attempt to gain some virtual authority by people who otherwise have none. I also read somewhere upwards one guy saying that "not being an asshole/bm/etc" means you're a pro/good player. Well apparently his little dream falls flat since the 2 most known and successful players of SC2 (at least for now) are both hardcore "bm'ers". ;-) Edit: It's not like I'm trying to win the battle for the right to bad manners here but this whole 'virtual' code of conduct mess feels too familiar. Every single group/community/people who tried that kind of crap over the years have sooner or later all been flagged as the e-fascist laughingstocks of gaming (ask TDA or the first idiots of quakecon) and TL will be no exception if this shit keeps up...
Not that I think this has anything to do with Naniwa achieving number 1 in the EU, which is a very cool achievement, but I really don't see why you would WANT to defend extremely bad mannered behavior. If we have the opportunity to create a pro gaming community which is actually professional, and is polite and courteous and friendly, we should take it. It cannot possibly be a bad thing to have a community which opposes the use of racial, ethnic, or homophobic slurs. I know that there's chops busting even in pro athletic sports, but that kind of behavior should be looked down upon, not looked to for an excuse as to why it's okay for someone to be a sore loser or just plain mean.
That said, I'll never go off on someone for bm if they fail to GG. Minimal decency is failing to call your opponent a shithead faggot. Absolutely everyone should be held to that standard in all areas of life, except I guess if that's how you and friends you know personally like to get on. Supererogatory behavior is saying GG or shaking your opponent's hand after a game. That's always nice and shows that you respect your opponents, which you ought to if you're playing a game professionally.
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You just can't get it do you ?
"e-sports" are NEVER going to be the squeaky clean habbo dream you oversensitive lunatics dream of.
Why ? Because nothing in the world ever worked that way, never will and above all, it's E-sports.
You're never convincing and much less bullying people into agreeing to some loosely shaped "acceptable rules" in a game that doesn't have any in the first place (past eula if you want to be specific)
Just go join the church or a random cult for clinically retarded loons if you want to force others to abide by whatever meaningless "code" you think trumps all.
I'm done arguing for common sense and independent thought, keep trying to push your little fantasies, I'll be there in 10 years to laugh my ass off at your naivety (and failure!).
(see in this post I actually got a little upset ^__^)
User was temp banned for this post.
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I can tell you're a very accomplished person because you feel the need to trash talk underachievers with 'little dreams' and 'little fantasies'.
Whatever, this thread doesn't need any more derailing... I wouldn't expect to last long on this forum with your attitude though lol.
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Stop bickering, it's lame guys. Anyway, found some recent replays of nani. He certainly is the real deal and deserves his spot. He has an aggression based style and he is very unpredictable. Rarely using the same build more than once. He forces his opponent to deal with his aggression and unpredictable compositions. That come very early. I highly recommend you watch his play if you doubt him. BTW he seemed very mannered in his games. It is possible that after the fiasco at that tourney he got DQ'd from he realized the error of his ways. I don't know the guy, but someone really needs to interview this guy asap. I'd love to hear what he has to say about his play style, being #1, his manner and reputation. Several of these games are vs good, known players like dimaga, MouzHasu, and Lucifron.
You can download a few of his replays here
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On January 06 2011 10:34 Shinkugami wrote:
You just can't get it do you ?
"e-sports" are NEVER going to be the squeaky clean habbo dream you oversensitive lunatics dream of.
Why ? Because nothing in the world ever worked that way, never will and above all, it's E-sports.
You're never convincing and much less bullying people into agreeing to some loosely shaped "acceptable rules" in a game that doesn't have any in the first place (past eula if you want to be specific)
Just go join the church or a random cult for clinically retarded loons if you want to force others to abide by whatever meaningless "code" you think trumps all.
I'm done arguing for common sense and independent thought, keep trying to push your little fantasies, I'll be there in 10 years to laugh my ass off at your naivety (and failure!).
(see in this post I actually got a little upset ^__^)
Just to avoid the whole "us" versus "them" thing you seem to have going on, I just want to say that I also belive the "good manners" stuff to be a little over the top and priggish.
However there's also nothing wrong with just generally expecting people to act pleasantly. You're right this isn't real life, it's a game that people play to get over their rough day at work/school. The average age of a gamer is pushing mid-thirties, so the image you have in your head of you being a veteran gamer playing against lots of whiny kids just isn't accurate, it's closer to reality to say it's probably a guy with a couple of kids who's got over their little teenage angst period, and really has no more time in their life for pointless unasked for "attitude" from somone wishing (hypocritically) to force their world-view on everyone else.
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EPT
