EPTSC2 is too hardcore and that is actually good
The Theory of Starcraft 2 TILT. - Page 4
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noD
2230 Posts
SC2 is too hardcore and that is actually good | ||
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overt
United States9006 Posts
On January 03 2011 16:25 chessiecat wrote: 4.God is touchable. The most heavily kitted out World of Warcraft warrior with the absolute best armor he can possibly have can still be killed by a slightly crap mage of near equal level in the right circumstances. The longest running player of Team Fortress 2 will always die to a bullet in the head from a Sniper rifle or prolonged fire from the other end of the map. In Call of Duty, even the best cannot weather a hail of bullets. In Starcraft 2, the odds that Mr.Bronzey Mc-Spacky pants is EVER going to kill Huk or Jinro are approximately zero. It just will not happen. The distance between a player like Idra or Huk and the lowest level Bronze player is so massive that persevering to improve feels like pissing off Niagra Falls. You won't ever 'get lucky' and manage to kill these player. This is actually something I like. Knowing that if I practice hard enough and put enough time into SC2 to not get killed by something stupid like a crit rocket in TF2 or whatever. There are so many popular games right now where you can be way better than everyone else in a server, practice all the time, and still get killed by stupid lucky shit or your team will lose or something. The fact that SC2 and Brood War are much more skill oriented rather than luck oriented is very appealing to me and is a motivation to practice and try harder. I think your other points are definitely true. I hate losing as do most people. However, in gaming I'm learning more and more than losing isn't really a bad thing. I tend to learn a lot more from losing than winning and as such if players can simply not care about their record or not care about some of the other points you mentioned they'll probably find that they get better way faster. | ||
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Treemonkeys
United States2082 Posts
On January 04 2011 03:30 TFB wrote: In iRacing*, the consequences were also very prominently shown. Without going into details, there were essentially four stats that moved about per race, with these stats being visible to one and all. At the end of a race, you knew** precisely who you beat, who beat you, how the ranked relative to you both before and after the race, how safe they usually are, how experienced they were, etc. In short, you could go out there and come 10th in a 14 car field and, thanks to being able to see the stats, work out that you had, in fact, beaten everyone ranked below you plus one driver ranked above you - surface result... you sucked... actual result... you put in a better performance than expected, "gratz". Personally, I think Blizzard could learn so, so much from the iRacing system as the firm statistical context it placed around the competition gave genuine meaning to results and performance - it made everything matter, gave positives in the face of ostensibly negative outcomes, and gave obvious, clear, and unambiguous targets*** to aim for. Well when you subtract bonus pool, I think it is pretty easy to see who is the better player. Now if the ranks are really close, it won't mean all that much if your 10 points ahead of someone else, that could just be the difference of one game. I'm replying because I'm interested, I would really like to hear how you think Blizzard could learn from iRacing (haven't played it), because it sound's like you think Blizzard could learn in the way of offering better statistics, instead of just win/loss. Yeah they could throw in other statistics that are important, what was your meaningful APM? How many resources did you float? How good was your saturation? How good was your scouting? How were you ahead or behind the tech switch game? These things all matter, but only in the context of a very unique game, which is each and every game played. I don't think it's possible to assign meaningful statistics to them, it is much better to watch the replay, and learn that way, in the context of the game. This game I floated too many minerals, I needed to get gas sooner. That game I floated too many minerals, but he killed all my queens and I was behind. I just don't see how you can compare racing to RTS, which has so much more unknown, so much more randomness, so much more decision making. Then at the same time, there is no 14 car field, there is only one vs. one, there is no "at least my lap time improved". When you are in a game, that game is all that matters, yeah you can be proud of yourself because you micro'ed or macro'ed a little better than before, but without a cohesive unity of all your efforts, that combined are good enough to win you the game, it doesn't matter. At least it doesn't matter until you take what you learned from your loss, apply it to the next game, and use it to win. | ||
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Shadrak
United States490 Posts
On January 04 2011 04:49 noD wrote: Agree that is why ladders are emptying I dont think the expansions will sell as well as the WoL did too... SC2 is too hardcore and that is actually good Do they release statistics on how much ladder play is going on? As to the OP, good analysis. I definetely feel tension when playing on the ladder, to the point where I am mostly playing on my second account (created to learn Z) because I don't care about losses on that one. | ||
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Cyber_Cheese
Australia3615 Posts
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ashaman771
Canada114 Posts
No, starcraft is not the only game to give those butterflies for me. Heck, it's not even the only rts or video game to give me the butterflies. But yes, having butterflies before competition is cool. | ||
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GizmoPT
Portugal3040 Posts
i'm a really bad loser and i get very pissed off at myself so i mostly play customs  | ||
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Jim7
United States154 Posts
I'm a gold player and ladder but I don't take it serious enough to care about my record. I try for a 50/50 and if I will insta quit games to keep myself from going to high. (probably unfair but it helps from having to worry about playing diamond players who stomp me.) This keeps me from getting nervous I think. Others might think I'm trash (gold with 500~ games played), which is probably true but I think not caring about my record or if I'm in a low division has kept me playing this long since I'm still having fun. | ||
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danielsan
Romania399 Posts
On January 04 2011 05:34 ashaman771 wrote: The wording of the OPs beginning paragraph is unfortunate, because it's tone is that starcraft does this to everyone who play, when he really meant is that it does it to him. No, starcraft is not the only game to give those butterflies for me. Heck, it's not even the only rts or video game to give me the butterflies. But yes, having butterflies before competition is cool. OP did a fine description to competitive starcraft. also a very enjoyable read. had you read the whole topic you would have noticed most of the users identified in at least one if not in many characteristics listed. Fact it cant be about him only. | ||
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Belial154
United States48 Posts
The way I look at each loss is that there were lessons to be learned. If I don't identify and actively work to improve on those items the loss was just to further frustrate me. Gonna try the push up idea too...since I started playing SC2 I stopped going to the gym altogether! | ||
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nokz88
Brazil1253 Posts
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Pax
United States175 Posts
It should be fairly obvious why I would compare Starcraft to those individual sports. They all require a similar clarity of mind and level of focus to make correct, split-second decisions. As for the performance arts, I expect the reason is a little less clear. Performing a long piano solo or choreographed dance routine requires extreme focus and connection with one's body to do well, not unlike a complex build order. Starcraft is, in effect, a fusion of performance and competition. Day9 once said some thing to the effect of "Starcraft demands both the mental fortitude of a chess grandmaster and the graceful dexterity of a virtuoso pianist." Though this dualism makes a player twice as vulnerable to tilt, the internal rewards of success are also doubled. This is what makes this game, as well as its predecessor, beautiful. There is no other activity on this earth which is comparable in this regard. | ||
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Doomblaze
United States1292 Posts
That is why "God" is untouchable. "God" spends hours each day playing SC2 and is passionate about it. Many progamers played BW for years too, while bronzies just started in the RTS world. Similarly, a high school tennis player has no hope of beating Nadal in a match. He is not a professional and has less experience in the sport. When you lose, you get experience and knowledge. Losing is more valuable than winning unless there is a prize involved, because you get to understand what you did wrong and understand how to refine your builds. | ||
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tskarzyn
United States516 Posts
WHY do you care about losing? WHY do you care about points? Why do people BM so much? Computer games are a lot of fun, but they are also a huge waste of time, so if you are playing SC or any other game you should be doing so purely for fun. No one gives a shit if you go down a few points or if you are in diamond or bronze, and if you are obsessed with those stats you are playing due to addiction and not for fun, plain and simple. | ||
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tskarzyn
United States516 Posts
Nobody can see how many times you've had your face ground into the dust at the click of a single button in Diablo 2. Win/Loss records are private in Team Fortress 2. World of Warcraft won't give away how many games you've lost in a row. You can be TERRIBLE and people will still play with you even if you suck miserably. Starcraft has these right out there in public. Every crushing defeat is there to be mocked by the public at large. " OP, you are seriously off your rocker if you think "the public at large" gives a shit about peoples SC rank. | ||
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crms
United States11933 Posts
4.God is touchable. The most heavily kitted out World of Warcraft warrior with the absolute best armor he can possibly have can still be killed by a slightly crap mage of near equal level in the right circumstances. The longest running player of Team Fortress 2 will always die to a bullet in the head from a Sniper rifle or prolonged fire from the other end of the map. In Call of Duty, even the best cannot weather a hail of bullets. In Starcraft 2, the odds that Mr.Bronzey Mc-Spacky pants is EVER going to kill Huk or Jinro are approximately zero. It just will not happen. The distance between a player like Idra or Huk and the lowest level Bronze player is so massive that persevering to improve feels like pissing off Niagra Falls. You won't ever 'get lucky' and manage to kill these player. This analogy just doesn't work in my mind. You're comparing very different things, like getting a kill to winning a game. Sure a great player might die to a newb via headshot once in a while but the good player isn't going to lose a match to a newb in any of the games you listed. These are team games so a great arena team or a great FPS team aren't going to lose a match to a bronze scrub. Just as a SC2 pro won't lose a series to a bronze scrub. A bronze scrub can certainly kill some of IdrA's or Huks units within a game which is what your analogy more accurately reflects. Getting a kill in a CTF game of TF2 is the equivalent of a newbs zealots killing one of IdrA's zerglings. | ||
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Protoss_Carrier
414 Posts
However, I am also a busy medical student. When I came back home from frustration and tiredness of the day, I don't want another challenge where I attempt to defeat or be defeated at a 50% rate, I just want to be able to play against the population at large and enjoy my much better odd of winning against randoms. You may then say, hey, but there is custom game, still, right? Not true, because I tend to rage quit when I see someone much higher ranked than me, something I will not have to do in any other game. Ranking system basically take out of the mystery in winning or losing for me. | ||
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Kimaker
United States2131 Posts
On January 04 2011 04:29 ocdscale wrote: Did you happen to glaze over the part where OP explained: Or the several other posts where the OP explains that the purpose isn't to complain about StarCraft, but to explain the sources of tilt so players can better deal with it. Anyway. I pretty much agree with all of this. I experience much more anxiety before a game of starcraft than I did/do experience before rounds of CS/CoD. I think another contributing factor is the structure of an RTS game compared to FPS games. Cause and effect are very closely tied (or appear to be) in FPS games. You die because you were slower on the draw or didn't check a corner or approached poorly etc. Your failure 3 minutes ago rarely comes back to bite you. (There are always exceptions, such as Quake-style FPSes). In contrast many losses in RTS games seem very much rooted in the past which contributes to a sense of helplessness. And I supposed my point is, why? Why even bother then? The way to deal with it is to just fix your mentality in regard to competition. If any of that makes you tweak out to the point where you just can't play, then there's something wrong about the entire way you're approaching the game, and the competitive environment. Not saying that it's not normal to get thrown off your whack sometimes, but you play through it, and it's more the exception as opposed to the rule. If the rule of your play is that you're constantly on tilt for these reasons, I'd say that the issue is you. I guess I just don't understand the issue, since the "answer" seems self-explanatory. Maybe I'm just not getting the OP...if that's the case ignore me. | ||
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Protoss_Carrier
414 Posts
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noD
2230 Posts
On January 04 2011 08:37 Protoss_Carrier wrote: For the majority of players, a game is supposed to be fun. I am not having fun when I am getting destroyed. I have enough competition in my day to day life already. Well that is kind the point of the op I think blizz made WoL to sound fun for single player and after months just hardcore multiplayers will stay on. Well hope they dont get a budget cut if Hots doesnt sell how much that they are planning xDDDDDDDDDD | ||
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