• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 23:54
CEST 05:54
KST 12:54
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Season 1 - Final Week6[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall12HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16Code S RO4 & Finals Preview: herO, Rogue, Classic, GuMiho0
Community News
Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed10Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll4Team TLMC #5 - Submission extension3Firefly given lifetime ban by ESIC following match-fixing investigation17$25,000 Streamerzone StarCraft Pro Series announced7
StarCraft 2
General
RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread Who will win EWC 2025? The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed
Tourneys
FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event RSL: Revival, a new crowdfunded tournament series $5,100+ SEL Season 2 Championship (SC: Evo) WardiTV Mondays Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response Simple Questions Simple Answers
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava Mutation # 480 Moths to the Flame Mutation # 479 Worn Out Welcome
Brood War
General
Flash Announces (and Retracts) Hiatus From ASL BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Starcraft in widescreen A cwal.gg Extension - Easily keep track of anyone
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Cosmonarchy Pro Showmatches CSL Xiamen International Invitational [BSL20] Non-Korean Championship 4x BSL + 4x China
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers I am doing this better than progamers do.
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread Path of Exile CCLP - Command & Conquer League Project The PlayStation 5
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread Stop Killing Games - European Citizens Initiative Summer Games Done Quick 2025! Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club! Maru Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
[Manga] One Piece Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread [\m/] Heavy Metal Thread
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 2024 - 2025 Football Thread NBA General Discussion NHL Playoffs 2024
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Men Take Risks, Women Win Ga…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Trip to the Zoo
micronesia
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 622 users

The Theory of Starcraft 2 TILT. - Page 4

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next All
noD
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
2230 Posts
January 03 2011 19:49 GMT
#61
Agree that is why ladders are emptying I dont think the expansions will sell as well as the WoL did too...
SC2 is too hardcore and that is actually good
overt
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
United States9006 Posts
January 03 2011 19:50 GMT
#62
On January 03 2011 16:25 chessiecat wrote:

4.God is touchable.


The most heavily kitted out World of Warcraft warrior with the absolute best armor he can possibly have can still be killed by a slightly crap mage of near equal level in the right circumstances. The longest running player of Team Fortress 2 will always die to a bullet in the head from a Sniper rifle or prolonged fire from the other end of the map. In Call of Duty, even the best cannot weather a hail of bullets.

In Starcraft 2, the odds that Mr.Bronzey Mc-Spacky pants is EVER going to kill Huk or Jinro are approximately zero. It just will not happen. The distance between a player like Idra or Huk and the lowest level Bronze player is so massive that persevering to improve feels like pissing off Niagra Falls. You won't ever 'get lucky' and manage to kill these player.


This is actually something I like. Knowing that if I practice hard enough and put enough time into SC2 to not get killed by something stupid like a crit rocket in TF2 or whatever. There are so many popular games right now where you can be way better than everyone else in a server, practice all the time, and still get killed by stupid lucky shit or your team will lose or something.

The fact that SC2 and Brood War are much more skill oriented rather than luck oriented is very appealing to me and is a motivation to practice and try harder.

I think your other points are definitely true. I hate losing as do most people. However, in gaming I'm learning more and more than losing isn't really a bad thing. I tend to learn a lot more from losing than winning and as such if players can simply not care about their record or not care about some of the other points you mentioned they'll probably find that they get better way faster.
Treemonkeys
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States2082 Posts
January 03 2011 19:54 GMT
#63
On January 04 2011 03:30 TFB wrote:
In iRacing*, the consequences were also very prominently shown. Without going into details, there were essentially four stats that moved about per race, with these stats being visible to one and all. At the end of a race, you knew** precisely who you beat, who beat you, how the ranked relative to you both before and after the race, how safe they usually are, how experienced they were, etc. In short, you could go out there and come 10th in a 14 car field and, thanks to being able to see the stats, work out that you had, in fact, beaten everyone ranked below you plus one driver ranked above you - surface result... you sucked... actual result... you put in a better performance than expected, "gratz". Personally, I think Blizzard could learn so, so much from the iRacing system as the firm statistical context it placed around the competition gave genuine meaning to results and performance - it made everything matter, gave positives in the face of ostensibly negative outcomes, and gave obvious, clear, and unambiguous targets*** to aim for.


Well when you subtract bonus pool, I think it is pretty easy to see who is the better player. Now if the ranks are really close, it won't mean all that much if your 10 points ahead of someone else, that could just be the difference of one game.

I'm replying because I'm interested, I would really like to hear how you think Blizzard could learn from iRacing (haven't played it), because it sound's like you think Blizzard could learn in the way of offering better statistics, instead of just win/loss. Yeah they could throw in other statistics that are important, what was your meaningful APM? How many resources did you float? How good was your saturation? How good was your scouting? How were you ahead or behind the tech switch game? These things all matter, but only in the context of a very unique game, which is each and every game played. I don't think it's possible to assign meaningful statistics to them, it is much better to watch the replay, and learn that way, in the context of the game. This game I floated too many minerals, I needed to get gas sooner. That game I floated too many minerals, but he killed all my queens and I was behind. I just don't see how you can compare racing to RTS, which has so much more unknown, so much more randomness, so much more decision making. Then at the same time, there is no 14 car field, there is only one vs. one, there is no "at least my lap time improved". When you are in a game, that game is all that matters, yeah you can be proud of yourself because you micro'ed or macro'ed a little better than before, but without a cohesive unity of all your efforts, that combined are good enough to win you the game, it doesn't matter. At least it doesn't matter until you take what you learned from your loss, apply it to the next game, and use it to win.
http://shroomspiration.blogspot.com/
Shadrak
Profile Joined August 2010
United States490 Posts
January 03 2011 20:22 GMT
#64
On January 04 2011 04:49 noD wrote:
Agree that is why ladders are emptying I dont think the expansions will sell as well as the WoL did too...
SC2 is too hardcore and that is actually good


Do they release statistics on how much ladder play is going on?

As to the OP, good analysis. I definetely feel tension when playing on the ladder, to the point where I am mostly playing on my second account (created to learn Z) because I don't care about losses on that one.
Cyber_Cheese
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
Australia3615 Posts
January 03 2011 20:25 GMT
#65
the thing that effects me on that list is three, scared of dropping below 50% wins, let alone dropping out of diamond
The moment you lose confidence in yourself, is the moment the world loses it's confidence in you.
ashaman771
Profile Joined April 2010
Canada114 Posts
January 03 2011 20:34 GMT
#66
The wording of the OPs beginning paragraph is unfortunate, because it's tone is that starcraft does this to everyone who play, when he really meant is that it does it to him.

No, starcraft is not the only game to give those butterflies for me. Heck, it's not even the only rts or video game to give me the butterflies.

But yes, having butterflies before competition is cool.
The Dead Room Podcast, check it out!
GizmoPT
Profile Joined May 2010
Portugal3040 Posts
January 03 2011 20:42 GMT
#67
i just play custom games to avoid all this :p
i'm a really bad loser and i get very pissed off at myself so i mostly play customs
Snipers Promod & Micro Arena Creator in SC2 Arcade - Portuguese Community Admin for SC2, HotS and Overwatch - Ex-Portugal SC2 Team Manager, Ex- Copenhagen Wolves and Grow uP Gaming Manager in SC2. Just Playing games now!
Jim7
Profile Joined December 2010
United States154 Posts
January 03 2011 21:30 GMT
#68
Very interesting!

I'm a gold player and ladder but I don't take it serious enough to care about my record. I try for a 50/50 and if I will insta quit games to keep myself from going to high. (probably unfair but it helps from having to worry about playing diamond players who stomp me.) This keeps me from getting nervous I think.

Others might think I'm trash (gold with 500~ games played), which is probably true but I think not caring about my record or if I'm in a low division has kept me playing this long since I'm still having fun.
danielsan
Profile Joined December 2010
Romania399 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-03 21:35:22
January 03 2011 21:33 GMT
#69
On January 04 2011 05:34 ashaman771 wrote:
The wording of the OPs beginning paragraph is unfortunate, because it's tone is that starcraft does this to everyone who play, when he really meant is that it does it to him.

No, starcraft is not the only game to give those butterflies for me. Heck, it's not even the only rts or video game to give me the butterflies.

But yes, having butterflies before competition is cool.

OP did a fine description to competitive starcraft. also a very enjoyable read.

had you read the whole topic you would have noticed most of the users identified in at least one if not in many characteristics listed. Fact it cant be about him only.
Belial154
Profile Joined December 2010
United States48 Posts
January 03 2011 21:47 GMT
#70
I think that SC2 for super-competitive people is very similiar to a gambling addiction...less, you don't lose your bank account. For myself, I get very exhausted after only a couple games on the ladder, but let me lose 12 in a row to a 2900 Diamond and I am ok as long as I know why and can create a plan to improve and close the gap in performance. I can't stand to lose a game on the ladder, and the rush the comes over me while playing is not the type of rush or feeling that just any video game provides. I do think that this can easily translate into "Tilt" or a high level of frustration if you are an extremely competitive person.

The way I look at each loss is that there were lessons to be learned. If I don't identify and actively work to improve on those items the loss was just to further frustrate me. Gonna try the push up idea too...since I started playing SC2 I stopped going to the gym altogether!
I'm Rick James b#$%&
nokz88
Profile Joined October 2010
Brazil1253 Posts
January 03 2011 22:10 GMT
#71
I am a jiu-jitsu fighter and sc2 player and I feel the exact same when competing in both. I guess both have a lot in common, especially the ones stated in the OP.
in a state of trance
Pax
Profile Joined August 2010
United States175 Posts
January 03 2011 22:22 GMT
#72
This unfortunate reality is what makes Starcraft 2 the greatest of eSports. This inner struggle is what puts it on the same level as individual competition sports, like martial arts, fencing, or chess, and solos in the performing arts.

It should be fairly obvious why I would compare Starcraft to those individual sports. They all require a similar clarity of mind and level of focus to make correct, split-second decisions. As for the performance arts, I expect the reason is a little less clear. Performing a long piano solo or choreographed dance routine requires extreme focus and connection with one's body to do well, not unlike a complex build order. Starcraft is, in effect, a fusion of performance and competition. Day9 once said some thing to the effect of "Starcraft demands both the mental fortitude of a chess grandmaster and the graceful dexterity of a virtuoso pianist." Though this dualism makes a player twice as vulnerable to tilt, the internal rewards of success are also doubled. This is what makes this game, as well as its predecessor, beautiful. There is no other activity on this earth which is comparable in this regard.
"Mankind censure injustice fearing that they may be the victims of it, and not because they shrink from committing it." -Plato
Doomblaze
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States1292 Posts
January 03 2011 22:23 GMT
#73
Starcraft 2 was made with the intent to be a sport.
That is why "God" is untouchable. "God" spends hours each day playing SC2 and is passionate about it. Many progamers played BW for years too, while bronzies just started in the RTS world.

Similarly, a high school tennis player has no hope of beating Nadal in a match. He is not a professional and has less experience in the sport.

When you lose, you get experience and knowledge. Losing is more valuable than winning unless there is a prize involved, because you get to understand what you did wrong and understand how to refine your builds.
In Mushi we trust
tskarzyn
Profile Joined July 2010
United States516 Posts
January 03 2011 22:30 GMT
#74
These threads are getting tiresome. There shouldn't be a study of SC tilt, because starcraft is a computer game played for fun with no downside to losing. Points are merely there to make sure that you are playing even opponents, because who wants to run over scrubs or get massacred by pros.

WHY do you care about losing? WHY do you care about points? Why do people BM so much? Computer games are a lot of fun, but they are also a huge waste of time, so if you are playing SC or any other game you should be doing so purely for fun. No one gives a shit if you go down a few points or if you are in diamond or bronze, and if you are obsessed with those stats you are playing due to addiction and not for fun, plain and simple.
tskarzyn
Profile Joined July 2010
United States516 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-01-03 22:41:24
January 03 2011 22:40 GMT
#75
"3.Failure is a private thing.

Nobody can see how many times you've had your face ground into the dust at the click of a single button in Diablo 2. Win/Loss records are private in Team Fortress 2. World of Warcraft won't give away how many games you've lost in a row. You can be TERRIBLE and people will still play with you even if you suck miserably.

Starcraft has these right out there in public. Every crushing defeat is there to be mocked by the public at large. "

OP, you are seriously off your rocker if you think "the public at large" gives a shit about peoples SC rank.
crms
Profile Joined February 2010
United States11933 Posts
January 03 2011 22:42 GMT
#76
decent OP, but I have a problem with this: + Show Spoiler +
4.God is touchable.

The most heavily kitted out World of Warcraft warrior with the absolute best armor he can possibly have can still be killed by a slightly crap mage of near equal level in the right circumstances. The longest running player of Team Fortress 2 will always die to a bullet in the head from a Sniper rifle or prolonged fire from the other end of the map. In Call of Duty, even the best cannot weather a hail of bullets.

In Starcraft 2, the odds that Mr.Bronzey Mc-Spacky pants is EVER going to kill Huk or Jinro are approximately zero. It just will not happen. The distance between a player like Idra or Huk and the lowest level Bronze player is so massive that persevering to improve feels like pissing off Niagra Falls. You won't ever 'get lucky' and manage to kill these player.




This analogy just doesn't work in my mind. You're comparing very different things, like getting a kill to winning a game. Sure a great player might die to a newb via headshot once in a while but the good player isn't going to lose a match to a newb in any of the games you listed. These are team games so a great arena team or a great FPS team aren't going to lose a match to a bronze scrub. Just as a SC2 pro won't lose a series to a bronze scrub. A bronze scrub can certainly kill some of IdrA's or Huks units within a game which is what your analogy more accurately reflects. Getting a kill in a CTF game of TF2 is the equivalent of a newbs zealots killing one of IdrA's zerglings.
http://i.imgur.com/fAUOr2c.png | Fighting games are great
Protoss_Carrier
Profile Joined September 2010
414 Posts
January 03 2011 23:11 GMT
#77
I think the whole rank and game finding system killed my interest. I happen to be a pretty good player in all games I play. Not the best, but good enough so I can win about 90% of the random SC2 (that put me in mid diamond)game or defeat 99% of people in FPS (I remember those who legitimately play better, not many of them do in the game of my choice)

However, I am also a busy medical student. When I came back home from frustration and tiredness of the day, I don't want another challenge where I attempt to defeat or be defeated at a 50% rate, I just want to be able to play against the population at large and enjoy my much better odd of winning against randoms.

You may then say, hey, but there is custom game, still, right? Not true, because I tend to rage quit when I see someone much higher ranked than me, something I will not have to do in any other game. Ranking system basically take out of the mystery in winning or losing for me.
Carrier has arrived.
Kimaker
Profile Blog Joined July 2009
United States2131 Posts
January 03 2011 23:13 GMT
#78
On January 04 2011 04:29 ocdscale wrote:
Show nested quote +
On January 04 2011 04:01 Kimaker wrote:
I really don't get this. Is this basically a long winded way of saying, "I hate losing, so I wish there was some artificial way or device or system that was in place so that my ego didn't feel so battered"?

Please correct me if I'm wrong. If I'm not, then it just sounds like you need to work on your mentality regarding competition, because that's how competition works, and SC is an ultra-competitive game.


Did you happen to glaze over the part where OP explained:
Show nested quote +
Keep in mind while reading this that I don't think the game needs to change

Or the several other posts where the OP explains that the purpose isn't to complain about StarCraft, but to explain the sources of tilt so players can better deal with it.

Anyway. I pretty much agree with all of this. I experience much more anxiety before a game of starcraft than I did/do experience before rounds of CS/CoD. I think another contributing factor is the structure of an RTS game compared to FPS games. Cause and effect are very closely tied (or appear to be) in FPS games. You die because you were slower on the draw or didn't check a corner or approached poorly etc. Your failure 3 minutes ago rarely comes back to bite you. (There are always exceptions, such as Quake-style FPSes).
In contrast many losses in RTS games seem very much rooted in the past which contributes to a sense of helplessness.

And I supposed my point is, why? Why even bother then? The way to deal with it is to just fix your mentality in regard to competition. If any of that makes you tweak out to the point where you just can't play, then there's something wrong about the entire way you're approaching the game, and the competitive environment.

Not saying that it's not normal to get thrown off your whack sometimes, but you play through it, and it's more the exception as opposed to the rule. If the rule of your play is that you're constantly on tilt for these reasons, I'd say that the issue is you.

I guess I just don't understand the issue, since the "answer" seems self-explanatory.

Maybe I'm just not getting the OP...if that's the case ignore me.
Entusman #54 (-_-) ||"Gold is for the Mistress-Silver for the Maid-Copper for the craftsman cunning in his trade. "Good!" said the Baron, sitting in his hall, But Iron — Cold Iron — is master of them all|| "Optimism is Cowardice."- Oswald Spengler
Protoss_Carrier
Profile Joined September 2010
414 Posts
January 03 2011 23:37 GMT
#79
For the majority of players, a game is supposed to be fun. I am not having fun when I am getting destroyed. I have enough competition in my day to day life already.
Carrier has arrived.
noD
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
2230 Posts
January 03 2011 23:48 GMT
#80
On January 04 2011 08:37 Protoss_Carrier wrote:
For the majority of players, a game is supposed to be fun. I am not having fun when I am getting destroyed. I have enough competition in my day to day life already.


Well that is kind the point of the op
I think blizz made WoL to sound fun for single player and after months just hardcore multiplayers will stay on. Well hope they dont get a budget cut if Hots doesnt sell how much that they are planning xDDDDDDDDDD
Prev 1 2 3 4 5 6 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
PiGosaur Monday
00:00
#40
davetesta40
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
Nina 248
RuFF_SC2 161
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 17472
Sharp 74
Icarus 10
LuMiX 3
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm124
Counter-Strike
Stewie2K156
Super Smash Bros
hungrybox631
Mew2King88
Other Games
summit1g14529
ViBE216
Trikslyr60
ROOTCatZ35
CosmosSc2 23
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick3189
BasetradeTV21
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 19 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH303
• Light_VIP 77
• practicex 26
• OhrlRock 2
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
• sooper7s
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• LaughNgamezSOOP
StarCraft: Brood War
• iopq 1
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
• BSLYoutube
League of Legends
• masondota2750
• Lourlo655
• Stunt309
Other Games
• Scarra1420
Upcoming Events
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
12h 7m
Replay Cast
20h 7m
The PondCast
1d 6h
OSC
1d 9h
WardiTV European League
1d 12h
Replay Cast
1d 20h
Epic.LAN
2 days
CranKy Ducklings
3 days
Epic.LAN
3 days
CSO Contender
3 days
[ Show More ]
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
3 days
Bonyth vs Sziky
Dewalt vs Hawk
Hawk vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs Dewalt
Mihu vs Bonyth
Zhanhun vs QiaoGege
QiaoGege vs Fengzi
Sparkling Tuna Cup
4 days
Online Event
4 days
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
4 days
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
Esports World Cup
6 days
ByuN vs Astrea
Lambo vs HeRoMaRinE
Clem vs TBD
Solar vs Zoun
SHIN vs Reynor
Maru vs TriGGeR
herO vs Lancer
Cure vs ShoWTimE
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL 17: 2025 SUMMER
RSL Revival: Season 1
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

JPL Season 2
BSL 2v2 Season 3
Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL20 Non-Korean Championship
Championship of Russia 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25
BLAST Rivals Spring 2025
MESA Nomadic Masters

Upcoming

CSL Xiamen Invitational
CSL Xiamen Invitational: ShowMatche
2025 ACS Season 2
CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
K-Championship
RSL Revival: Season 2
SEL Season 2 Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
FEL Cracov 2025
Esports World Cup 2025
Underdog Cup #2
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
IEM Cologne 2025
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.