EPTplus... i think it's more a matter of maps...
Blizzard and the All-In - Page 13
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ShyRamen
United States322 Posts
plus... i think it's more a matter of maps... | ||
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Cephei
United Kingdom79 Posts
On December 12 2010 08:35 my0s wrote: I'm sorry but I'm kinda tired of this response/excuse. It's been out for quite awhile now and never has such a low skilled strat dominated this level of high level touraments. IdrA and ret spent over a week on this one thing and thier answer is a gamble at best, and a flat out accepted loss on some maps. I'm tired of this BS whining zergs like you do all the time every time Terran gets a good strategy it's whine whine whine until we get nerfed. Reapers whine whine whine....nerfed, Tanks whine whine whine... nerfed, early rax whine whine whine... nerfed. You whine about banshees, you whine about marines, you whine about marauders, you whine about vikings, you whine about PF's, you whine about turrets, you whine about mules, you whine about repair, all of these things I see zergs whining about regularly and i bet I've missed a few aswell, you zergs whine about nearly everything the terran has, you are all the same. | ||
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NightHawk929
79 Posts
On December 12 2010 09:03 Cephei wrote: I'm tired of this BS whining zergs like you do all the time every time Terran gets a good strategy it's whine whine whine until we get nerfed. Reapers whine whine whine....nerfed, Tanks whine whine whine... nerfed, early rax whine whine whine... nerfed. You whine about banshees, you whine about marines, you whine about marauders, you whine about vikings, you whine about PF's, you whine about turrets, you whine about mules, you whine about repair, all of these things I see zergs whining about regularly and i bet I've missed a few aswell, you zergs whine about nearly everything the terran has, you are all the same. You are forgetting stim packs are OP because it makes the DPS too high and medivacs are OP because they heal too quickly and they can transport. | ||
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SovSov
United States755 Posts
On December 12 2010 09:03 Cephei wrote: I'm tired of this BS whining zergs like you do all the time every time Terran gets a good strategy it's whine whine whine until we get nerfed. Reapers whine whine whine....nerfed, Tanks whine whine whine... nerfed, early rax whine whine whine... nerfed. You whine about banshees, you whine about marines, you whine about marauders, you whine about vikings, you whine about PF's, you whine about turrets, you whine about mules, you whine about repair, all of these things I see zergs whining about regularly and i bet I've missed a few aswell, you zergs whine about nearly everything the terran has, you are all the same. And now you're whining too. | ||
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Bowdy
United States232 Posts
On December 12 2010 09:03 Cephei wrote: I'm tired of this BS whining zergs like you do all the time every time Terran gets a good strategy it's whine whine whine until we get nerfed. Reapers whine whine whine....nerfed, Tanks whine whine whine... nerfed, early rax whine whine whine... nerfed. You whine about banshees, you whine about marines, you whine about marauders, you whine about vikings, you whine about PF's, you whine about turrets, you whine about mules, you whine about repair, all of these things I see zergs whining about regularly and i bet I've missed a few aswell, you zergs whine about nearly everything the terran has, you are all the same. maybe if reapers werent faster than everything zerg had, tanks didnt one shot everything zerg had, marines werent the highest dps per surface area unit and cost effective unit in the game, stim marauders didnt drop spawning pools in 3 seconds, vikings werent the longest ranged air unit in the game (not to mention they can just land if need be), planetary fortresses didnt nullify the need to ever defend an expo, and, well, i dont mind turrets or mules or repair. I kid I kid btw. I personally don't feel like marines are "imba", I just feel like I wasted 20$ on GSL to watch 2 rax scv all-ins every damn game. | ||
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vOdToasT
Sweden2870 Posts
I'm a Zerg and I don't whine at that. You LIE! | ||
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Cephei
United Kingdom79 Posts
On December 12 2010 09:13 Bowdy wrote: maybe if reapers werent faster than everything zerg had, tanks didnt one shot everything zerg had, marines werent the highest dps per surface area unit and cost effective unit in the game, stim marauders didnt drop spawning pools in 3 seconds, vikings werent the longest ranged air unit in the game (not to mention they can just land if need be), planetary fortresses didnt nullify the need to ever defend an expo, and, well, i dont mind turrets or mules or repair. I kid I kid btw. I personally don't feel like marines are "imba", I just feel like I wasted 20$ on GSL to watch 2 rax scv all-ins every damn game. Speedlings were faster than speed reapers, a group of tanks 1 shot ground units anyway, creep to react to harassment like marauders dropping in, mutas kill drop play anyway, mutas > vikings, phoenix' > vikings. PF=Warp in=Creep etcetc. @Vodtoast, ok maybe there are exceptions to the rules but most are definitely whiners. | ||
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HiHiByeBye
Canada365 Posts
On December 12 2010 00:23 Bowdy wrote: we're supposed to have a macro lead, our units are significantly less cost-effective, and are designed that way, so we need more of them than you. If we don't get a macro lead very very early, once your orbital command finishes you're way ahead with mules alone. I'm not saying blizzard didn't go a bit overboard on nerfing the harass options, but you're being ridiculous. This must be a joke... Yes zerg units are less cost effective in a head to head battle. but you can constantly harrass and backstab to keep the terran at a further disadvantage. And zerg T3 are definatly more cost effective than terran T3... have you seen how shit BCs are? Also zerg players does whine a lot. Everytime they lose they find reason for balance. Honestly all ins arent that hard to stop. After you expand just stop pumping drones none stop. Get a lot of sling and drop down a baneling nest whine also making drones. You wont get behind. Just not ahead like most zergs are used too. So greedy | ||
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Bowdy
United States232 Posts
On December 12 2010 09:29 Cephei wrote: Speedlings were faster than speed reapers, a group of tanks 1 shot ground units anyway, creep to react to harassment like marauders dropping in, mutas kill drop play anyway, mutas > vikings, phoenix' > vikings. PF=Warp in=Creep etcetc. @Vodtoast, ok maybe there are exceptions to the rules but most are definitely whiners. Did you miss the part where I said I was joking? And btw, last time I checked mutas and pheonixes have far less range than vikings :p | ||
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my0s
United States193 Posts
On December 12 2010 09:03 Cephei wrote: I'm tired of this BS whining zergs like you do all the time every time Terran gets a good strategy it's whine whine whine until we get nerfed. Reapers whine whine whine....nerfed, Tanks whine whine whine... nerfed, early rax whine whine whine... nerfed. You whine about banshees, you whine about marines, you whine about marauders, you whine about vikings, you whine about PF's, you whine about turrets, you whine about mules, you whine about repair, all of these things I see zergs whining about regularly and i bet I've missed a few aswell, you zergs whine about nearly everything the terran has, you are all the same. God I hope this is some kind of troll. Your lack of game knowlege can only be rivaled by the uselessnes of your post. Everything you have mentioned has been agreed by blizzard to be imbalanced and patched accordingly, save for this example of Terran all in. Which I have a feeling may very well be nerfed in some regard soon. Not only that, this issue has nothing to do with "good strategy". Getting to the ro16 in GSL with the same strat, despite everyone knowing it was coming is laughable. Perhaps you should educate yourself on the difference between strategy and imbalance before you continue to post. In fact I more or less summarized that exact theory a page or two back. If you feel the power of the Terran all in is balanced, then by all means defend it with logic and reasoning. Not ramble and drool as quoted above. | ||
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SuperBigFoot
United States63 Posts
On December 12 2010 09:31 HiHiByeBye wrote: This must be a joke... Yes zerg units are less cost effective in a head to head battle. but you can constantly harrass and backstab to keep the terran at a further disadvantage. And zerg T3 are definatly more cost effective than terran T3... have you seen how shit BCs are? Also zerg players does whine a lot. Everytime they lose they find reason for balance. Honestly all ins arent that hard to stop. After you expand just stop pumping drones none stop. Get a lot of sling and drop down a baneling nest whine also making drones. You wont get behind. Just not ahead like most zergs are used too. So greedy I completely agree with you. For some reason the Zerg players feel like they should have an easy ticket to win the game. It's as if they can't think for themselves and would rather Blizzard fix the game for them to A-move to victory, actually, this is literally the case. The problem with the TvZ matchup is with the player base. A majority of the Zerg players feel some type of entitlement to winning the game by crying to Blizzard every single time they can't beat a strategy. Zerg cried so much that Terran players were nerfed so far to extinction that they actually had to adapt to the 14 hatch by doing 2 rax SCV all in rush. The game is now literally broken for Terran players who want to compete with both Toss and Zerg players during the late game. Two rax SCV rush is not impossible to stop. The problem is Zerg players not willing to use any other strategy then going 14 hatch. | ||
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Bowdy
United States232 Posts
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Vandal_heart
United Kingdom88 Posts
On December 12 2010 11:06 SuperBigFoot wrote: ... A majority of the Zerg players feel some type of entitlement to winning the game by crying to Blizzard every single time they can't beat a strategy. ... And if there was a strategy that Terran could not beat, they would just be fine with it? I'm not talking late game unit compostions that terran have trouble with, but a single attack in the first, what, 6-7 minutes of the game that required far greater skill and not a small amount of luck to fend off, they'd be ok with that? | ||
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AJMcSpiffy
United States1154 Posts
On December 12 2010 11:06 SuperBigFoot wrote: Two rax SCV rush is not impossible to stop. The problem is Zerg players not willing to use any other strategy then going 14 hatch. I am getting sick of hearing that. Ret and IdrA have worked a lot harder with in-game practice, not just theorycrafting, and they have come to the conclusion that hatch first is a near necessity: http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=174898 Quoted from Ret (from that thread in case you don't want to click it) people who keep talking about 'hatch first' really don't have a clue.. 2 rax constant marines dominates pool first so bad because there's only so few larve off 1 hatch untill after the first queen inject...the marines can just push you back non stop till that first inject finishes and you are in danger of being bunker blocked I'm not trying to insult you, but I take the word of two of the best Zerg foreigners over that of someone who I suspect does not play Zerg. Also regarding the GSL, I agree that it was very frustrating to see so many all-ins. I understand that the players are trying to win, and I don't blame them for using a style that wins. But this surge of all ins has left a rather bad taste in my mouth whenever I watch a TvZ from the GSL (aside for Jinro's play). | ||
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PaPoolee
Netherlands660 Posts
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ShyRamen
United States322 Posts
all i want to express is my opinion. i am an average diamond player, terran, 2k and i have to agree with people that complained about the QQing zergs against zerg i have an incredible hard time during the late game due to the constant tech switch they are able to make, basically once the zergs hit tier3 and get up 3+ bases it becomes extremely hard to deal with them... my highest win ratio is actually against zerg rather than T or P, and i don't "all-in" bringing my SCVs but i tend to set a plan that ends the game within the 15/20 mins mark. i always open 2 rax, force em into lings, possibly get his hatch deleted/destroyed or make him open roach. at that point i expand and then hit with a strong timing push off 2 bases while the zerg has been re-droning. i feel doing this is the only "safe" way i have to win against zerg because LOTS of time when i went into macro mode, their constant tech switch, crazy mobility (nydus, creep, mutas, etc.) made it too hard to deal with and an heavy mech army is just too expensive and risky to have... if you loose it, you are fucked. all i am saying is that i can macro game against T and P but against Z is just too insane... and that is why maybe you see so many all ins and sick timing pushes against zerg.... because lots of T players feel the same. my 2 cents | ||
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Mr_Kzimir
France268 Posts
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Bowdy
United States232 Posts
On December 12 2010 12:40 ShyRamen wrote: i don't mean to start any argument here... all i want to express is my opinion. i am an average diamond player, terran, 2k and i have to agree with people that complained about the QQing zergs against zerg i have an incredible hard time during the late game due to the constant tech switch they are able to make, basically once the zergs hit tier3 and get up 3+ bases it becomes extremely hard to deal with them... my highest win ratio is actually against zerg rather than T or P, and i don't "all-in" bringing my SCVs but i tend to set a plan that ends the game within the 15/20 mins mark. i always open 2 rax, force em into lings, possibly get his hatch deleted/destroyed or make him open roach. at that point i expand and then hit with a strong timing push off 2 bases while the zerg has been re-droning. i feel doing this is the only "safe" way i have to win against zerg because LOTS of time when i went into macro mode, their constant tech switch, crazy mobility (nydus, creep, mutas, etc.) made it too hard to deal with and an heavy mech army is just too expensive and risky to have... if you loose it, you are fucked. all i am saying is that i can macro game against T and P but against Z is just too insane... and that is why maybe you see so many all ins and sick timing pushes against zerg.... because lots of T players feel the same. my 2 cents I don't disagree with you. I'll be the first to admit that once I'm on 4 bases with map control and on my way to hive, I'm pretty confident that I'm going to win, but those games are at least fun to play and more importantly fun to watch no matter what the outcome. If blizzard wants to nerf zerg lategame thats fine. I don't blame T's for all-inning every game, I blame blizzard for making that the most viable way to play tvz. It's plain shitty to pay money to watch. | ||
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Cephei
United Kingdom79 Posts
On December 12 2010 10:47 my0s wrote: God I hope this is some kind of troll. Your lack of game knowlege can only be rivaled by the uselessnes of your post. Everything you have mentioned has been agreed by blizzard to be imbalanced and patched accordingly, save for this example of Terran all in. Which I have a feeling may very well be nerfed in some regard soon. Not only that, this issue has nothing to do with "good strategy". Getting to the ro16 in GSL with the same strat, despite everyone knowing it was coming is laughable. Perhaps you should educate yourself on the difference between strategy and imbalance before you continue to post. In fact I more or less summarized that exact theory a page or two back. If you feel the power of the Terran all in is balanced, then by all means defend it with logic and reasoning. Not ramble and drool as quoted above. I was making a point on what most zerg's sound like EVERY time I read these forums, everything I mentioned gets whined about on a regular basis and if you notice it's probably 3/4 or terran units and structures, which basically means zerg players just like to whine about terran in general so why should anyone listen. I'm not talking about balance at all there you idiot so don't accuse me of knowing nothing when you don't even understand what my post is for. Before you accuse me of talking garbage, you should look at what you posted. 2 rax is a good strategy because it's strong, so it has everything to do with a good strategy, and it IS a strategy, the only reason you think it's imbalanced is because you suck and can't deal with it. The strategy can be stopped and did many times in the GSL, so don't talk crap about it being unstoppable which is what your getting at. Oh yes btw, did you see the guy who 6 pooled his way into GSL? is 6 pool imba as well? LOL. | ||
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Cephei
United Kingdom79 Posts
On December 12 2010 13:00 Bowdy wrote: I don't disagree with you. I'll be the first to admit that once I'm on 4 bases with map control and on my way to hive, I'm pretty confident that I'm going to win, but those games are at least fun to play and more importantly fun to watch no matter what the outcome. If blizzard wants to nerf zerg lategame thats fine. I don't blame T's for all-inning every game, I blame blizzard for making that the most viable way to play tvz. It's plain shitty to pay money to watch. SC2 wasn't made for spectators, or because it's fun to watch, you have to remember that. | ||
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