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Pulimuli
Sweden2766 Posts
On December 07 2010 17:54 tainted muffin wrote: Really? every tvt i see marines get owned by tank/hellion lol yes, only games i've lost vs "mass marines" has been against non-scouted proxy raxes. Mass marines get raped in the butt in every matchup (ok if you're Marineking you can go mass marines in TvZ but otherwise banelings rape them pretty darn hard) | ||
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Anzat
United States90 Posts
What makes you think that a Terran can win a proper macro game against a zerg? Jinro. Sorry, but at least tell us you're in diamond with a decent W/L and say something besides your inability to defeat marines with banelings. 1950 diamond zerg. All the lategame games in the GSLs and between pros have shown that Terran can't win in a long macro game against a zerg. Some season 2 Foxer vs Kyrix games come to mind, although they stayed low tech because of those players' styles they were definitely macro games. I'm sure there were others but I don't have a full library of the GSL in my head. | ||
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Fats
13 Posts
Is that people keep complaining about marines - learn to counter them. If you're single minded in your approach to every game you're going to lose to certain Build Orders that actually adapt to your play. I could post threads about "the problem with High Templars" --- 1 unit can devastate twenty with a single cast. But I won't post a thread like that because there are ways to avoid it. Constructive: Terran frequently runs into too much mineral supply so marine is a good unit to pump out to supplement you're other army - its the same for zerg (lings) - its a good solid reliable mineral dump. Keep in mind there are very easy counters to marines so please, lets all make an effort to stop the "this race/that race balance" qq that is so prevalent and focus on improving each others games User was warned for this post | ||
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Kyandid
Canada124 Posts
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imBLIND
United States2626 Posts
On December 10 2010 14:46 Kyandid wrote: No one read the OP's post. yea...really wish people would read before they posted. | ||
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Kvz
United States463 Posts
Is that people keep complaining about reapers - learn to counter them. If you're single minded in your approach to every game you're going to lose to certain Build Orders that actually adapt to your play. I could post threads about "the problem with Marines" -- 1 unit can completely destroy in the early game and still be a huge backbone unit in the late game thus holding back an entire race from outward play and making certain matchups ridiculous to watch. But I won't post a thread like that because there are ways to avoid it. See what I did there? Sometimes its not that simple. The problem with 2 rax marines builds not even the scv all in versions is that even if you adapt your play (in base hatch/spines/cut drones to make lings) the build is STILL strong and hurts the terran player in no way while putting you on a backfoot. Ever wonder why zerg/protoss late games are keyed into basically counter marines? colo/storm? baneling/infestor/ultra/broodlord..? User was warned for this post | ||
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shadymmj
1906 Posts
we make marines because there's nothing, repeat, nothing left to build or do with the minerals. the terran mineral economy is quite a bit higher per base (apparently this is seen as a way to make T viable in the first place) so unless you are making pure marauders you are going to float minerals all the time. there is no reason to make hellions w/o getting blue flame past the early game zerg rush. more importantly, there needs to be anti air present in the army, and thors are not anti-air. vikings are alright except Z can make far more mutas than you can make vikings unless you commit to 2 port reactor or something dumb like that. and then their land army steamrolls you over. why do that when you can MAKE MARINES! | ||
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Fats
13 Posts
On December 10 2010 14:51 Kvz wrote: "The Problem with 2-3-4-5 rax Reapers" Is that people keep complaining about reapers - learn to counter them. If you're single minded in your approach to every game you're going to lose to certain Build Orders that actually adapt to your play. I could post threads about "the problem with Marines" -- 1 unit can completely destroy in the early game and still be a huge backbone unit in the late game thus holding back an entire race from outward play and making certain matchups ridiculous to watch. But I won't post a thread like that because there are ways to avoid it. See what I did there? Sometimes its not that simple. The problem with 2 rax marines builds not even the scv all in versions is that even if you adapt your play (in base hatch/spines/cut drones to make lings) the build is STILL strong and hurts the terran player in no way while putting you on a backfoot. Ever wonder why zerg/protoss late games are keyed into basically counter marines? colo/storm? baneling/infestor/ultra/broodlord..? Stop whining and QQing about YOUR perceived imbalance and learn the game. It gets us nowhere, Lets do this I'll be zerg (normally terran) and force you (as terran) to simultaneously macro micro play. -Challenge?.... Keep building those marines and see how far they get you | ||
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Kvz
United States463 Posts
On December 10 2010 15:16 Fats wrote: Stop whining and QQing about YOUR perceived imbalance and learn the game. It gets us nowhere, Lets do this I'll be zerg (normally terran) and force you (as terran) to simultaneously macro micro play. -Challenge?.... Keep building those marines and see how far they get you http://sc2ranks.com/us/561447/NrGKvz thats my profile. I'm a 2400-2500 z player that stopped laddering 2-3 weeks ago. Its fun to speak through anonymity, but I'm going to guess from your severe lack of understanding of this game that you're a middling platinum player. If that's the case then don't waste my time because your opinion means pretty much nothing as you lack the mechanics to actually comprehend the game at a capable level. However, on the off chance that I'm wrong (which I doubt) and you are diamond ~2500+. Let's play reverse race. edit: posted wrong profile rofl. User was warned for this post | ||
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OmegaSyrus
Canada46 Posts
On December 10 2010 15:05 shadymmj wrote: clearly most people here do not play terran and just cry op... we make marines because there's nothing, repeat, nothing left to build or do with the minerals. the terran mineral economy is quite a bit higher per base (apparently this is seen as a way to make T viable in the first place) so unless you are making pure marauders you are going to float minerals all the time. there is no reason to make hellions w/o getting blue flame past the early game zerg rush. more importantly, there needs to be anti air present in the army, and thors are not anti-air. vikings are alright except Z can make far more mutas than you can make vikings unless you commit to 2 port reactor or something dumb like that. and then their land army steamrolls you over. why do that when you can MAKE MARINES! I used to get hellions instead of marines and instead get large thor numbers. Mutalisk magic box make that pointless. Currently only marines and thors can even deal with mutas. Marines are forced otherwise mutas will never die. | ||
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DarkRise
1644 Posts
marines aren't that great in small numbers but you can mass it up pretty quick with reactor or mass rax marine micro has been very popular lately avoiding banes i think every terran here know how good marine are early to late game but yeh like i said marines are OK but mules just let terran reinforcing marine in vast numbers | ||
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MegaTerran
214 Posts
On December 10 2010 15:29 OmegaSyrus wrote: I used to get hellions instead of marines and instead get large thor numbers. Mutalisk magic box make that pointless. Currently only marines and thors can even deal with mutas. Marines are forced otherwise mutas will never die. Thors too slow. We need valkiries or goliaphs.. Better both.. | ||
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1a2a3aPro
Canada227 Posts
On December 10 2010 05:17 Pewt wrote: Eh, I think HTs/Science Vessels/Defilers win that award. Tanks are really strong but they don't make entire sections of the techtree worthless (outside of TvT, and mirror matchups are always weird) in SC1 whereas those other units totally define what you are allowed to do against their respective races. Not that that is necessarily a bad thing, it's just that tanks are generally beatable in SC1 just by having lots of "stuff". (Don't get me wrong, tanks are really good in SC1) I was just showing that a unit can be used heavily in every matchup and it doesn't ruin a games dynamic aspects or its balance. The tank in SC1 is a perfect example. OP: Marines are used heavily. To OP I say: so? I don't see this as a problem at all. | ||
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Fats
13 Posts
On December 10 2010 15:28 Kvz wrote: http://sc2ranks.com/us/561447/NrGKvz thats my profile. I'm a 2400-2500 z player that stopped laddering 2-3 weeks ago. Its fun to speak through anonymity, but I'm going to guess from your severe lack of understanding of this game that you're a middling platinum player. If that's the case then don't waste my time because your opinion means pretty much nothing as you lack the mechanics to actually comprehend the game at a capable level. However, on the off chance that I'm wrong (which I doubt) and you are diamond ~2500+. Let's play reverse race. edit: posted wrong profile rofl. 2400-2500x player has NOTHING to do with skill - most diamond players are only decently good and can be beat by gold players (while they should be amazing), and some gold/plat should be diamond-level skill b/c they didn't bother to ladder 5 minutes after the game was relsead ,Ratly and often got you the spot in diamond - then stopped playing ladder or play once a weak to maintain diamond "but I'm going to guess from your severe lack of understanding of this game that you're a middling platinum player. If that's the case then don't waste my time because your opinion means pretty much nothing as you lack the mechanics to actually comprehend the game at a capable level." that is the most self-righteous paragraph statement i've ever heard Picking and choosing here: "Ever wonder why zerg/protoss late games are keyed into basically counter marines cause only a sub bronzse terran would go mass marine in a macro game - Let me count the ways.... colo/storm? baneling/infestor/ultra/broodlord+(roach/hydra)+ = AWESEOME! there game is balanced to have counters to mass marine.... stim - roaches burrows under rine heals to full and unburrows into enemies base If you take any unit and try to overslimplify it it will sound OP @OP please stop the terran QQ whing and learn your race and the counters to other race Muta User was warned for this post | ||
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Fats
13 Posts
On December 10 2010 15:33 DarkRise wrote: i don't have a problem with marines but mules+marines is marines aren't that great in small numbers but you can mass it up pretty quick with reactor or mass rax marine micro has been very popular lately avoiding banes i think every terran here know how good marine are early to late game but yeh like i said marines are OK but mules just let terran reinforcing marine in vast numbers then how wil theh poor little high templars (1 unit) kil 14 units with just a click | ||
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terranghost
United States980 Posts
On December 10 2010 14:51 Kvz wrote: If you take any unit and try to overslimplify it it will sound OP @OP please stop the terran QQ whining and learn your race and the counters to other race Muta The op is not complaining the only people complaining are the people misunderstanding his thread. Read he says On December 07 2010 17:11 imBLIND wrote: 5. I'm not whining, I'm not proposing radical balance changes; I'm just fucking talking about the marine. O, I'm sorry I guess its not possible to have discussion threads because so many people write QQ threads so even discussion threads sound like QQ. That makes me sad. Don't be distressed Blind I've really enjoyed the constructive arguments on both sides. But I guess some people will just QQ naturally they can be ignored though. | ||
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confusedcrib
United States1307 Posts
EDIT: If you're trying to say that the marine is the only unit that accomplishes certain tasks than you should really be asking the question, how do I stop x without marines, instead of why do I need marines, this is so broken ect. ect. | ||
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TeWy
France714 Posts
On December 10 2010 12:55 Anzat wrote: Jinro. 1950 diamond zerg. Some season 2 Foxer vs Kyrix games come to mind, although they stayed low tech because of those players' styles they were definitely macro games. I'm sure there were others but I don't have a full library of the GSL in my head. Hahaha, so the simple fact that Jinro bet Moon in a macrogame (who didn't even qualify for the round of 64 last season) somehow convinces you that Terran is not weak against Zerg in the late game. Impressive rethorical skills, I guess that you've convinced a lot of people. | ||
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terranghost
United States980 Posts
In the round of 64 if your weakest MU for example is zvt and tvz is your opponents best MU than you will be at a disadvantage. On the other hand if in the round of 64 your best MU is tvz and your opponents worst MU is zvt you will be at an advantage. This is not to say that the players at the tournament cannot overcome this or to say that Jinro or Moon fit into this. But to say that someone is a bad simply because they did not qualify the year before is groundless. | ||
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dakalro
Romania525 Posts
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