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On November 01 2010 12:18 Dfgj wrote:Show nested quote +On November 01 2010 12:11 Dommk wrote:
Bonus pool also has another purpose that will make more sense in the coming seasons. With ratings inflating every week, it will stop players who get a high rating and just stop playing and reap the end of season rewards (titles, icons, etc). Bonus pool means you need to keep playing the game in order to keep up..
I'd say winning enough early on to get the points to stay at the top of the ladder by the end of the season is more worthy than grinding points with a bonus pool.
Stop calling them points, by the way. This is rating, not points that you hoard. You can get to 2500 rating with 100 games or 1000. The bonus pool is a set amount of fake rating that gets added to the rating of all active players.
Also, while this may prevent getting a high rating initially and then abstaining until the end of the season, you can very easily just not play until 2 weeks are left in the season and then get to #1 with a crazy W/L percentage because a large part of your bonus pool will be gained from the easy wins you get climbing up the rating ladder, whereas an active player who probably reached a plateau in the first few weeks of the season ended up with more losses due to playing people within his own skill level more.
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The thing that frustrated me about bonus pool is that I used all my bonus pool when I first started the game in 1v1 ladder learning how to play the game.
I didnt really mass games but I played consistently so eventually I ran out of bonus pool. But now that I am out, compared to some of my friends a lot less skilled - who learned the game through teams and now just starting 1v1, it seems as though they can soar past my points so easily.
For i.e If I were to create a new account and start 1v1, my points would be at least 200-300 (currently 2100) more than what I am atm and even if that is inflated or not, I feel that this should not be happening because of bonus pool
But this will be fixed when ladder resets so I guess just frustrating for the 1st season : )
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On November 22 2010 21:54 CrayonKing wrote:
The thing that frustrated me about bonus pool is that I used all my bonus pool when I first started the game in 1v1 ladder learning how to play the game.
I didnt really mass games but I played consistently so eventually I ran out of bonus pool. But now that I am out, compared to some of my friends a lot less skilled - who learned the game through teams and now just starting 1v1, it seems as though they can soar past my points so easily.
For i.e If I were to create a new account and start 1v1, my points would be at least 200-300 (currently 2100) more than what I am atm and even if that is inflated or not, I feel that this should not be happening because of bonus pool
But this will be fixed when ladder resets so I guess just frustrating for the 1st season : )
Could you explain why you would have 200-300 more points if you started over?
Is it because you would start with placement matches and it would take a while for the system to start matching you against equally skilled opponents?
That doesn't really have anything to do with the bonus pool imo, so I don't understand your point.
When you have used all your bonus points, and you are being matched against equally skilled opponents you should start plateauing, your friends will get there eventually as well. Why would they get more points in the process than you did? Please elaborate :-)
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Hm Yeah I guess I explained it kind of confusing but lets try it again. The main point im trying to explain is that I used my bonus pool while trying to learn the game.
When I first started sc2, I played 1v1 ladder, so I used all my bonus pool points learning.
In comparison - my friend did not play any 1v1’s but learned the game through team/customs.
Now, 5ish months down the road my friend is just starting his 1v1’s. But since he’s fairly decent he can take advantage of the bonus pool points where I cannot because I do not have anymore remaining.
So really what I am saying is when I first did 1v1 ladder I lost games and consequently lost bonus pool that I would not lose if I created a new account now and did ladder again, therefore my points would be higher.
This should be the case with all people who played ladder early. Think of it as taking full advantage of your bonus pool points….
edit: I know I say i would be 200-300 more and Im not saying that would be my "actual" level of skill, It would be an inflated value due to bonus pool.
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On October 31 2010 01:22 Kpyolysis32 wrote:
You're 100% wrong about why your friend plays higher ranked people. Matchmaking doesn't use your ELO ranking, which is all the Bonus Pool changes, so there's no reason that would have any effect. He is not cheating the system, just wasting his time.
It's not an Elo rating.
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Another thing, I do not get what there needs to be bonus pool at all or decay - can someone explain this?
I see all the arguments how people would not be able to catch up but without bonus pool no one would be at 2000 or maybe some but it would not be like what it is right now.
If there was no bonus pool then your points would be a very accurate representation of your skill. Right now if you compare two people.
One at 1000 points but 0 bonus pool and another person 1000 points but with 500 bonus pool are obviously not equally skilled since the first persons points is inflated.
I just feel that when looking at points we shouldn’t have to take into consideration how much bonus pool an individual have. I remember seeing this thread awile ago that went into hard calculation of your “actual” but I cannot find that anymore…
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On October 31 2010 01:18 Hyp-The-Feared wrote:Do you guys think it is out of hand? I have so many bonus pool points whether it be 1s,2s,3s,4s, or just with some random at friends.... I dont think I could go through all my bonus pool points before the ladder resets, and I play a ton(2000 league games). I got a friend that only plays his solo games when he has a bonus pool because when he wins the extra points make up for his loses and he doesnt lose rating. He is probably 200-300 higher rating then he should be...then complains when he loses 10 games in a row cause he is playing better people cause he is cheating the system  Whats the reasoning behind bpp's anyways? I hope blizzard plans to change this..what do you guys think?
Wait, the hidden MMR factors almost exclusively into matchmaking, that's why what you are saying about him playing better players doesn't seem true. I have a buddy nearing 2000 who still randomly plays platinums because of the hidden MMR.
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On November 22 2010 22:39 CrayonKing wrote:
So really what I am saying is when I first did 1v1 ladder I lost games and consequently lost bonus pool that I would not lose if I created a new account now and did ladder again, therefore my points would be higher.
Thanks for explaining CrayonKing.
But I still don't understand what you mean by saying you lost bonus pool. I don't think you can lose bonus pool points. You are awarded extra points from your bonus pool if you win, but you don't lose extra points from your bonus pool when you lose. Or is that not what you mean?
Also, there are various opinions on the reason behind the bonus pool. Blizzard have claimed that its purpose is to allow you to catch up when you haven't played for a while. But in my opinion that is only going to work when the bonus pool stops growing. Right now you can't use the bonus pool to catch up to people, because those people also had the bonus pool.
Apart from that, I believe it's to create a feeling of progression. Because of the bonus pool you get more points, even if you're winning only 50% of the time.
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People misunderstand the bonus pool completely. Everyone gets the same amount, say it's 1000 so far. So everyone's rating should be at minimum 1000 if they spent their bonus pool. Saying somebody only plays when they have bonus pool results in them having a higher rating than someone of the same skill who plays non stop is wrong. Both players are receiving the same amount of bonus points. If I win 6 and lose 3, with the bonus pool for 3 wins, then I will increase by the same amount as someone who wins 3 and doesn't lose any with the bonus pool for 3 wins.
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I, for one, love the bonus pool. I am only able to actively play StarCraft about three days of the week, tops. So during those other four days, I am able to let my bonus pool add up. Then, I get an additional 100-200 points when I do grind through games... thus, allowing me to remain competitive on the ladder.
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On November 22 2010 23:25 teh_longinator wrote:
I, for one, love the bonus pool. I am only able to actively play StarCraft about three days of the week, tops. So during those other four days, I am able to let my bonus pool add up. Then, I get an additional 100-200 points when I do grind through games... thus, allowing me to remain competitive on the ladder.
It would be the same without the bonus pool if you think about it...
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correct me if I'm wrong, but what really matters is the hidden rating and the bonus pool doesn't influence the hidden rating.
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The bonus pool is what it is. Learn to live with it. I agree to a level that it is going up way too fast. Especially for 2vs2 3vs3 4vs4.
Otherwise consider this:
After retail some guy plays 100 games and wins 75(75*15) and loses 25 against better players (-25*8) because he trained hard in beta while others couldn't. Now he has 925 points and he stops playing. Probably this guy will be top ranked for a very very long time while not playing 3 months.
Then you suggest a decaying system?
-Punishes you even harder for not playing every 18 hours at least 1 game. Especially all us diamond players.
Then you suggest Iccup ranking?
-Now you really promote mass playing. It's even more hardcore than decaying.
People complain. ALWAYS. It is annoying.
Nerf this.
Balance this.
Do this better.
Fix lag.
This system sucks.
*yabbe yabbe yabbe*
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The bonus pool is fine!
if it would not exist it would mean that new players could never catch up to the high ladder spots if they did'nt play every day from day 1 of the ladder season... With the bonus pool you can go on vacation for 3 weeks and then play again and catch up to the point level of the players that played for all that time... This highly motivating!
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On November 22 2010 23:35 weltraumMonster wrote:
The bonus pool is fine!
if it would not exist it would mean that new players could never catch up to the high ladder spots if they did'nt play every day from day 1 of the ladder season... With the bonus pool you can go on vacation for 3 weeks and then play again and catch up to the point level of the players that played for all that time... This highly motivating!
This is just wrong. If the bonus pool didn't exist, those other players would not have increased in rating (only if they had gotten better compared to others) and you would not even have to chase them.
In general, I understand the concept and they actually do their job (motivate someone to play more) fairly well. But the abstinence of constant benchmarks really kills the system for me.
edit: Of course it is necessary to note, that there is also inflation in ELO-systems, as more and more people play the game. However, it moves way slower.
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There is 1 thing I would like to add about the bonus pool that people missed or I missed it.
The bonus pool inflation is also to get the inactive players to the bottom, when I played DoW2 for a month or 2, i noticed people with high ELO who quit after a week, they stayed at the top for the full duration that I played.
In SC2 i notice it even in my Div, I got both TLO and Jinro in it, and when they went to korea, they slowly dropped, to around ~rank 90.
And now TLO is playing again on the ladder he is mostly playing top players from the start, even with a 1.5K difference in points (cause of the hidden rating).
And with that there is also a opportunity to gain rank fast because of the saved points.
This is ofc a big example, but there a lot of people who takes break from this game.
I think this was the choice of blizz not including ELO in the ladder point system, what you guys think?
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In general, I understand the concept and they actually do their job (motivate someone to play more) fairly well. But the abstinence of constant benchmarks really kills the system for me.
The benchmark is your position on the ladder. I don't understand your way of thinking. You prefer a system that awards players after lucky streaks of 10 wins in a row. Then stopping with playing and feeling like a boss?
No you don't, you prefer playing constantly and gaining points. If you are an active you will stay the same rank as before, you will gain rank if you improve faster than others and lose rank if other improve faster than you.
WHAT IS THE PROBLEM?
After watching so many threads about this. I am going on a limb here, how do you like this assumption:
People are JEALOUS. You heard it right. People don't like other people to reach the points they have reached. People don't like to have 1500 points and 3 weeks later worse people having 1500 points, even though they have 1800 points.
What people want is:
I am a 1500 points player for 2 months now, while other people will never reach my 1500 points. Can I stroke my ego on the internet?
omagash!!!! I just hitted a lucky 10 win streak and I am on 1600 points now. SCREENSHOT and upload into profile, also make it my key signature everywhere. Twitter about it. Facebook status it. It does not matter if I fall back to 1500 instantly and stay there for the next 3 months. I am a 1600 player. Stroking the ego to the max.
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On October 31 2010 01:21 Stropheum wrote:
Inflation
Getting bonus pool points makes bad players feel like they're improving by improving their score artificially. Bonus pool means nothing and does nothing other than soothe bad players' egos and make it impossible for good players to create a benchmark. There will be no "A" bracket for points, because every day that bracket will be artificially inflated by 10 points.
Thats' just complete BS...
Without the bonus pool a player that once got to a high ladder rank (with a high amount of points) could just stop playing and would be up there forever.
The bonus pool makes sure that you have to be playing continuously in order to stay on top of the ladder.
Comparing points from the past with the present ist of course not saying anything.
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i also share the pov that the bonus pool favors playing a lot way more than catching up for new players
also what crayonking meant was that he had to use up bonus pool points just to increase rank through divisions (i guess) and it would be better to play a lot of custom games before laddering and start with better win percentages, get higher win streaks and climb up to diamond quickly without using up more points because bronze points wont turn in equal silver and so on
i would prefer an elo rating over this one by far
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The bonus pool is just to keep the ladders active. It forces you to play if you want to maintain your rank on the ladder. Everyone in top diamond has the same amount of bonus points in their rating, so those ratings actually are somewhat comparable. Although I think Excalibur recently showed that each division also adds additional points just for being in that division, but the amount varies between divisions.
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EPT
