EPTSo what's the importance of APM, and what other things are important to base someone's skill?
What makes a good starcraft 2 player?
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rockd24
18 Posts
So what's the importance of APM, and what other things are important to base someone's skill? | ||
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SiegeMode
United States206 Posts
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SilverPotato
United States560 Posts
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Glacierz
United States1244 Posts
User was warned for this post | ||
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AirbladeOrange
United States2573 Posts
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Seide
United States831 Posts
Mental strength, practice regimes, daily routine. Those 3 things are a few of the things that really what set players like Jaedong and Flash apart from anyone else. How they react to unfamiliar strategy, cheese, how a loss in a BO5/7 series effect them the rest of the series, how they deal with pressure. To be honest I believe SC2 especially in the pro scene is very similar to tennis. It is not very hard to learn proper technique for all the tennis strokes. Just like its not very hard to learn builds and simple fundamentals. It's being able to apply that technique consistently in high pressure situations, and not crumble when you see something out of the ordinary. Keeping up with the little details, like making sure your unit positioning is right, workers are mining optimally, in every game is also important. Go look at Boxer's match in the GSL, and look at his marine positioning. He has them everywhere scouting the map, as well as scouting drops. Many pro players do little things like this, while even many high level amateurs do not. What makes a good player is not only good mechanics. It's the ability to maintain a cool head, make proper decisions, and not let pressure effect you. The APM Issue: As far as APM is concerned, you might not need a high one, and you definately dont need one in the 300+ to be good. Still that being said, I don't see how you can keep up with what you have to do with only 50 APM. While you might be getting by with it now, as you get better and play better people, you will have less time to do each action. This is when APM and using hotkeys becomes important. You will be strained on what you can do at any given moment, so doing what you need to do in the fastest way possible(hotkeys) becomes really important. So you might as well build the habit of keeping high APM now, so you dont have to relearn a new habit when you do hit that point. Spamming has always been a subject people are touchy on, but spamming APM, I don't do it to get higher APM on purpose, I do it because it helps me focus on the game much better than without spamming. Plus eventually as you get better and you are concentrating, you will be used to maintaining high APM, so you can convert the spam into something useful as you get better. I write this with the assumption that someones goal is to become as good as they possibly can. Obviously if one does not have a goal to reach tha skill level where high APM becomes important and just play for fun, most of this is obviosuly useless to them. | ||
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rockd24
18 Posts
On October 21 2010 03:17 Glacierz wrote: Wait so you manually click on what you want to build? That could be a problem if you are trying to multitask with both micro and macro during battle... You shouldn't focus on APM, but instead on the things you need to do. APM tends to peak during battle for good players not because they micro a lot better, but because they micro and macro at the same time to keep up with reinforcements. If you are not comfortable using build hotkeys, at least group all your production buildings into 1 key to make things easier to manage. Yeah that does slow me down on battles, when I'm toss and use warp gates. However even if you use the hotkeys you still have to select where to warp in the units right? During micro i'll use right hand to control map and mouse to control units. I tried playing the standard way where you use the mouse to move the map and control the units, and I sucked. However if it will help my game a lot than I might give it another try of course for me it'll be relearning the mechanics all over gain. | ||
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Deckkie
Netherlands1595 Posts
But lets say spamming during the game. You'll see as soon as you start spamming that you will start doing stuff faster. You have the feeling that you have a lot to do and do the things you NEED to do a lot faster. Well at least that is my experience. | ||
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Welmu
Finland3295 Posts
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rockd24
18 Posts
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Nightfall.589
Canada766 Posts
Anyone can score 50% wins with their one gimmick that they've perfected. I don't care if you cheese your way through, I don't care if you have 50 APM, if you can defeat another opponent multiple times, you're better then him. | ||
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Glacierz
United States1244 Posts
On October 21 2010 03:28 rockd24 wrote: Yeah that does slow me down on battles, when I'm toss and use warp gates. However even if you use the hotkeys you still have to select where to warp in the units right? During micro i'll use right hand to control map and mouse to control units. I tried playing the standard way where you use the mouse to move the map and control the units, and I sucked. However if it will help my game a lot than I might give it another try of course for me it'll be relearning the mechanics all over gain. Try customizing the hotkeys if you are left handed, I think it is always best to use hotkey if there is one for it. The reason is you don't need to move the cursor away from the actions around the map to some menu on the bottom right. If you play toss and are trying to warp, try holding down the hotkey and simply clicking on the ground within pylon range (for example, 'w' to select all warpgates, hold down 's' and left click 5 times if you want to make 5 stalkers, this is the quickest way of making units) | ||
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GaMeOfFeAr
United States26 Posts
On October 21 2010 03:04 SiegeMode wrote: The only really meaningful thing you can really use to judge someone's skill is tournament results. This. Tournament results are the only objective criterion we can utilize to judge players. The rest is subjective, and ultimately irrelevant. | ||
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Somi
Pakistan123 Posts
This is the problem with spending too much time here, reading stuff, looking at replays and playing less :D My APM is 55-60. | ||
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rockd24
18 Posts
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Senx
Sweden5901 Posts
On October 21 2010 03:21 AirbladeOrange wrote: Winning consistently and often is the only thing that makes a good starcraft player, no matter how it is done. Yeah I'm sure all those diamond protoss players that got there through doing nothing but 1 base all-ins are actually good players. Good point. | ||
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OPSavioR
Sweden1465 Posts
On October 21 2010 03:02 rockd24 wrote: Sorry if there has been other posts on this. However I've read a lot that ladder rankings don't matter, because you can cheese or do one build over and over again. So what criteria would you say makes up a good starcraft player? One thing personally I have trouble is gauging the importance of APM. I'm left-handed and use the arrow keys to move the map along with the mouse. I use control groups but rarely the hotkeys. My APM is usually around 50. I'm a 1200 Diamond player mostly play Protoss, and know a few builds from each race. So what's the importance of APM, and what other things are important to base someone's skill? 1200 Diamond and 50 APM... I need to ladder fast lol | ||
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jinorazi
Korea (South)4948 Posts
1. when player says ㅈㅈ instead. 2. worker harass and scouting without shift+move other than that game sense is most important i think. sense of timing, micro, unit composition, etc. | ||
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eLiE
Canada1039 Posts
good player traits off the top of my head -high apm, so they can handle extreme micro, solid macro, and have eyes everywhere (if you're apm is low but you have good macro, you could be microing and scouting better) -they look at their minimap all the time -have a basic plan going into a game, modded as necessary -they're very knowledgeable in both of the other races; have a solid understanding of all of their builds and counters, and can easily recognize them -have solid scouting, every couple minutes see whats up in the other person's base -keep a mobile army -keep resources low, unless banking | ||
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rockd24
18 Posts
On October 21 2010 06:39 OPSavioR wrote: 1200 Diamond and 50 APM... I need to ladder fast lol 1200 diamond and 50 apm is very manageable however being in top 10% will probably require more APM. I mean overall I think it really just affects more in late game. I'm changing completely to hotkeys so hopefully i'll have a greater APM in a few weeks. | ||
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