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By somewhat popular demand I've decided to create the sequel to this post, compiling only the tournament results since the release of patch 1.1. Also, due to somewhat popular demand, I've included players who only placed 2nd in tournaments to give a complete overview of finalists, as opposed to the last post in which only tournament winners were listed.
The following tournaments were included:
+ Show Spoiler +GSL1, IEM NY, TL US Open, Alien Invasion Invitational, SK Champion's Trophy, Vision Invitational, Go4SC2 #40-46, Zotac Cup #24-26, Craftcup #8-9, Undeniably Gamer Cup #5-7, OpenWolf Cup #9-11, Viking Cup #12-14, Fisher Open #4, Competo Cup #7-9, King of the Tourney.ru #9, SCV Ready #2, GosuCoaching Cup #11, WDI Psi Storm 2010.
Tournament winners:
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/Ticon_small.png) Fenix - 4![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/common/gold.png)
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/Picon_small.png) Socke - 3 2![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/common/silver.png)
SeleCt - 3 1
SjoW - 3 1
Naama - 3
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/Zicon_small.png) DIMAGA - 2
NightenD - 2
NaNiWa - 1 2
Jimpo - 1 1
merz - 1 1
MorroW - 1 1
AdelScott - 1
AllAboutYou - 1
Axslav - 1
Brat_OK - 1
FruitDealer - 1
Kas - 1
LucifroN - 1
mOOnGLaDe - 1
PredY - 1
Strelok - 1
Tarson - 1
![[image loading]](http://www.teamliquid.net/tlpd/images/Ricon_small.png) Taurent - 1
Zelniq - 1
GooDy - 2
Fuzer - 2
KawaiiRice - 2
Bischu - 1
DarKFoRcE - 1
DeMusliM - 1
DDoro - 1
DieStar - 1
Drewbie - 1
Garnath - 1
HasuObs - 1
HopeTorture - 1
LaLuSh - 1
Mardow - 1
McLeod - 1
Oxygen - 1
QXC - 1
Rigid - 1
SarenS - 1
Silver - 1
Spades - 1
Tefel - 1
UnderDark - 1
WhiteRa - 1
Tournament results by race:
- 23 20
- 8 10
- 5 5
- 1 1
Tournament winners by race:
- 14
- 5
- 4
- 1
Tournament finalists by race
- 26
- 11
- 9
- 2
And since major LAN results deserve slightly more recognition than the plethora of online cups included...
Major tournament results since 1.1
GSL Open Season 1:
1. FruitDealer
2. HopeTorture
3/4. LiveForever / oGs.Ensnare
IEM New York:
1. Fenix
2. QXC
3. HuK
4. Drewbie
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God I hate these threads... Turns into flamewars and balance discussions.
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Props to you for putting this together! 
However, this would just fuel the Zerg UP and Terran OP discussions even more.
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Where's IEM Germany under "major tournament"? Morrow 1st, Idra 2nd, DIMAGA 3rd, Tarson 4th.
Should just have the major tournaments anyway tbh..
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On October 15 2010 01:44 AyJay wrote:
God I hate these threads... Turns into flamewars and balance discussions.
What exactly is wrong with balance discussions?
And I didn't know you could flame on TL, they're five mods per member.
I don't see much of a change yet from the last thread.
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On October 15 2010 01:49 ZergSecks wrote:
Where's IEM Germany under "major tournament"? Morrow 1st, Idra 2nd, DIMAGA 3rd, Tarson 4th.
This list is post patch 1.1. IEM Germany was way before that.
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On October 15 2010 01:50 KingAce wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2010 01:44 AyJay wrote:
God I hate these threads... Turns into flamewars and balance discussions. What exactly is wrong with balance discussions?
Have you READ tl lately?
Honestly it's just a big ridiculous ad hominem war with zero evidence and 99% bullshit.
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United States7166 Posts
thanks for doing another one of these, i was hoping someone wondering how tourney results have progressed
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On October 15 2010 01:55 ToxNub wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2010 01:50 KingAce wrote:On October 15 2010 01:44 AyJay wrote:
God I hate these threads... Turns into flamewars and balance discussions. What exactly is wrong with balance discussions? Have you READ tl lately? Honestly it's just a big ridiculous ad hominem war with zero evidence and 99% bullshit.
So is this post.
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On October 15 2010 01:55 ToxNub wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2010 01:50 KingAce wrote:On October 15 2010 01:44 AyJay wrote:
God I hate these threads... Turns into flamewars and balance discussions. What exactly is wrong with balance discussions? Have you READ tl lately? Honestly it's just a big ridiculous ad hominem war with zero evidence and 99% bullshit.
TE gave you evidence
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The all time winners SC2 winners is even more in Terrans favor. Wonder why they are winning so much? Are there more pro Terran players? Map issues? Balance?
Something is surely off, there must be a reason why if you add protoss, zerg, and randoms wins and then multiply that by 2 you almost equal Terrans wins.
It's pretty much been holding steady like this for terran ever since beta when they nerfed roaches to death and every toss unit except stalkers, carriers and archons got nerfed.
Shouldn't MLG be considered a major tournament?
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And people say that there is no problem with balance ...
=/
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Moonglade won the 5k australian tournament against Oxygen.
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Makes me happy to see some red icon Zergs up there. Looks like the patch helped move everything into the right direction for Zerg. I can only imagine its only going to increase with the new proposd changes.
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Great post, thanks for sharing these.
regarding comments about balance discussion it is what you make of it. Just because people may use it for that is not a valid reason to not share this information.
I personally prefer these lists to see what players to keep an eye out for in the future and whose games i will try and watch. Cool to see a couple random players on that list as well.
Sad to see such phenomenal talent like White Ra relegated to a single 2nd place. I hope he can get his personal life in order and we can start seeing him placing higher in the future.
HuK not winning anything is surprising, I think he has been fairly busy lately. Let us see how he does at MLG. I guess he is in the same boat as Idra at the moment. Only playing in the larger tournaments so they seem to be winning less.
Fenix looking really impressive, what a way to "Burst" on to the scene. Glad to see NA players not from the US participating.
I need to follow Socke more closely he is looking like quite the Toss powerhouse.
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I can't help but wonder if these numbers are slightly unfair because of the amount of EU / Viking tournaments where it seems like there is nothing but Terran who participate
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Sooooo many terrans, if there was actually more top players who chose to play zerg i'm confident that it'd be more balanced. Its just that terran is so damn attractive and fun to play. They are obviously strong still, but Zerg just lacks that fun and gimmicks factor that P and T has.
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I'm not huge on watching Terran's, but I have to give mad respect to Fenix. He's just downright scary to watch at times versus some players, good players. I think he has a bright future ahead of him if he sticks with it.
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On October 15 2010 02:05 Sfydjklm wrote:
Moonglade won the 5k australian tournament against Oxygen.
Wasn't sure whether to include that but seeing as though it was open to the whole of SEA and had a large prize pool I've added it.
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Still no IdrA to be seen, yet Dimaga, Cool, and a bunch of new faces manage to get away with some wins for The Swarm.
Also, is MorroW still switching to Zerg?
It would be so entertaining to see MorroW win a tournament as Zerg; and funny to see IdrA eat his words.
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On October 15 2010 02:31 Phrencys wrote:
Still no IdrA to be seen, yet Dimaga and Cool manage to get away with some wins.
Also, is MorroW still switching to Zerg?
It would be so entertaining to see MorroW win a tournament as Zerg; and funny to see IdrA eat his words.
My prediction is Idra will never win a major tournament. His play is one dimensional, he's easily exploited. Especially considering people he's facing have equal or better mechanics than him now.
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In a year or two max this will all be irrelevant- all the golds and silvers will belong to Flash and Jaedong anyways
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1.1 helped somewhat, 1.2 is going to be a different ball park alltogether.
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Why do protoss player perform so terribly? TvP Is probably the most balanced matchup in the game and ZvP is P favored :/
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On October 15 2010 02:14 Senx wrote:
Sooooo many terrans, if there was actually more top players who chose to play zerg i'm confident that it'd be more balanced. Its just that terran is so damn attractive and fun to play. They are obviously strong still, but Zerg just lacks that fun and gimmicks factor that P and T has.
Because pro's choose race based on how fun it is to play -.-. You'd have to be blind not to see how T favoured the scene is atm.
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On October 15 2010 02:28 cuppatea wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2010 02:05 Sfydjklm wrote:
Moonglade won the 5k australian tournament against Oxygen. Wasn't sure whether to include that but seeing as though it was open to the whole of SEA and had a large prize pool I've added it.
well even if it is less skilled, its still even amongst itself, its not like Morrow coming over and raping everyone.
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On October 15 2010 02:55 Scarecrow wrote:
Because pro's choose race based on how fun it is to play -.-. You'd have to be blind not to see how T favoured the scene is atm.
In many interviews they attribute their race selection to how much fun they have while playing it. If you hate the race you're not going to grind away for 10 hours a day doing a chore-like work. Most people who are pro SC2 gamers (and undoubtedly 80-90% of this list) still view the game more as a hobby than career.
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On October 15 2010 02:55 Scarecrow wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2010 02:14 Senx wrote:
Sooooo many terrans, if there was actually more top players who chose to play zerg i'm confident that it'd be more balanced. Its just that terran is so damn attractive and fun to play. They are obviously strong still, but Zerg just lacks that fun and gimmicks factor that P and T has. Because pro's choose race based on how fun it is to play -.-. You'd have to be blind not to see how T favoured the scene is atm.
If they don't enjoy what they're doing they're gonna get burnt out. Are you too blind to realize this?
It just so happens to be that Terran is more enjoyable to play for alot of people compared to Z.
Alot of people made their choice in beta when Zerg were strong, so its more about the terran style and flavor that appeals more.
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On October 15 2010 01:44 AyJay wrote:
God I hate these threads... Turns into flamewars and balance discussions.
It should turn into a balance discussion because it needs to be discussed. The problem is people don't know HOW to discuss something like civil human beings. However the original poster never said anything about balance he simply posted FACTS about recent tournament results. If facts are the fuel to the fire of a balance discussion then I don't think there is any problem with that as long as it is done in a civil manner.
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Terran is attractive because it's the strongest race. It's not the other way around. Toss has often been the most played race so your point has no grounds.
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I don't think it 100% means anything this early into the game but I <3 zerg and t is bs iyam. That being said blizzard looks like they're going down that path with the last patch. Thanks op for putting this together I was curious how everything looked since 1.1.
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So glad to see Socke as #2, guy is and amazing Protoss
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On October 15 2010 03:01 Senx wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2010 02:55 Scarecrow wrote:On October 15 2010 02:14 Senx wrote:
Sooooo many terrans, if there was actually more top players who chose to play zerg i'm confident that it'd be more balanced. Its just that terran is so damn attractive and fun to play. They are obviously strong still, but Zerg just lacks that fun and gimmicks factor that P and T has. Because pro's choose race based on how fun it is to play -.-. You'd have to be blind not to see how T favoured the scene is atm. If they don't enjoy what they're doing they're gonna get burnt out. Are you too blind to realize this? It just so happens to be that Terran is more enjoyable to play for alot of people compared to Z. Alot of people made their choice in beta when Zerg were strong, so its more about the terran style and flavor that appeals more.
I disagree. Winning appeals more. Zerg can be fun, except for getting your face smashed in regularly by any number of 1 base terran all-ins or sheer map imbalance (needs to be fixed, the new jungle map is a joke). Terran is popular because you can beat people of equal skill more often than not, hence it is both enjoyable and rewarding. My mind is blown that you think these results are down to terran's appealing style and flavor... The terrans I face in high diamond are consistently worse at macro and general gameplay than their zerg or toss counterparts and yet achieve similar results.
Since the game was released it's 74 wins to T, 30 to P and 9 to Z.
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On October 15 2010 01:55 ToxNub wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2010 01:50 KingAce wrote:On October 15 2010 01:44 AyJay wrote:
God I hate these threads... Turns into flamewars and balance discussions. What exactly is wrong with balance discussions? Have you READ tl lately? Honestly it's just a big ridiculous ad hominem war with zero evidence and 99% bullshit.
Why would you attack a post about statistics by calling bullshit?
Things are definitely moving in the right direction though. Perfect balance will never be achieved as there are a lot of uncertain factors (like what race has the most good players?) but earlier statistics (and these as well) have definitely hinted towards some pretty serious imbalances.
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Getting closer, so I'm not as annoyed.
Atleast we have more than 1-2 Zerg winners 
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On October 15 2010 02:48 Endorsed wrote:
Why do protoss player perform so terribly? TvP Is probably the most balanced matchup in the game and ZvP is P favored :/
Have you considered that TvP may be imbalanced? People blame Protoss for playing horribly and not thinking outside the box.
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On October 15 2010 03:31 Scarecrow wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2010 03:01 Senx wrote:On October 15 2010 02:55 Scarecrow wrote:On October 15 2010 02:14 Senx wrote:
Sooooo many terrans, if there was actually more top players who chose to play zerg i'm confident that it'd be more balanced. Its just that terran is so damn attractive and fun to play. They are obviously strong still, but Zerg just lacks that fun and gimmicks factor that P and T has. Because pro's choose race based on how fun it is to play -.-. You'd have to be blind not to see how T favoured the scene is atm. If they don't enjoy what they're doing they're gonna get burnt out. Are you too blind to realize this? It just so happens to be that Terran is more enjoyable to play for alot of people compared to Z. Alot of people made their choice in beta when Zerg were strong, so its more about the terran style and flavor that appeals more. I disagree. Winning appeals more. Zerg can be fun, except for getting your face smashed in regularly by any number of 1 base terran all-ins or sheer map imbalance (needs to be fixed, the new jungle map is a joke). Terran is popular because you can beat people of equal skill more often than not, hence it is both enjoyable and rewarding. My mind is blown that you think these results are down to terran's appealing style and flavor... The terrans I face in high diamond are consistently worse at macro and general gameplay than their zerg or toss counterparts and yet achieve similar results. Since the game was released it's 74 wins to T, 30 to P and 9 to Z.
My mind is blown that you still misunderstand what I'm saying. I never said these results happen directly beacuse terran is more fun. Its already established that terran is STRONG.
What I'm saying is that alot of top players chose terran beacuse of the way the race plays out - its enjoyable -- and beacuse of that Terran is represented very heavily among the top players. Had zerg been more attractive and fun to play during beta, more players would have chosen it and we probably would have had a different result here. The results are indirectly affected by the fact that Zerg is boring and lackluster to play. This has been talked and complained about all through to beta to release. They are also harder to play well which requires a top player.
And your experience in "high diamond" actually doesn't mean anything in this discussion since a majority of the diamond players are actually not comparable to the ones that attend these tournaments.
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On October 15 2010 01:55 ToxNub wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2010 01:50 KingAce wrote:On October 15 2010 01:44 AyJay wrote:
God I hate these threads... Turns into flamewars and balance discussions. What exactly is wrong with balance discussions? Have you READ tl lately? Honestly it's just a big ridiculous ad hominem war with zero evidence and 99% bullshit.
This. Balance discussions usually end with:
"Stalkers can blink therefore it's IMBA"
"Mule gives you 270 minerals therefore it's IMBA"
"Viking 9 range, therefore it's IMBA"
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On October 15 2010 01:44 AyJay wrote:
God I hate these threads... Turns into flamewars and balance discussions.
You hate threads of compiled facts and statistics? ...Well what kind of threads do you like then? Threads where every post is an outrageous unsubstantiated opinion?
Also, "turns into balance discussions", I'm sorry, could you clarify why balance discussions on a message board dedicated to a competitive video game are a bad thing?
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Looks more balanced than pre-1.1 winners.
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Thanks a ton for doing this. Much less misleading than most race stats like the ridiculous ones Blizzard posts. Will be very interested to see the 1.1.2 results. Swarm about to stand up.
On October 15 2010 01:44 AyJay wrote:
God I hate these threads... Turns into flamewars and balance discussions. I must say- when I read your post I was 100% certain when I looked at your avatar it'd be a Terran avatar. So congrats on surprising me so much. It seems you have to be subconsciously insulted by the mere existence of such discussions to make posts like yours. It's really easy to see a potential balance discussion by the thread title and avoid it otherwise.
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I think the only logical conclusion that can be derived from these statistics is that Random is underpowered.
On a more serious note, the results after the last balance patch should be more telling, but Terran is just more popular at the moment (due to reasons I won't speculate upon), so there will be a changeover time before you see more even spread between the races entering tournaments.
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It's interesting to see how zerg and toss are leveling out, while terran keeps (gains more of?) it's giant lead...
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On October 17 2010 20:40 Shiladie wrote:
It's interesting to see how zerg and toss are leveling out, while terran keeps (gains more of?) it's giant lead...
Exactly, nice to see Z and P closer together. Remember that the effects of balance changes will take time to become visible in such statistics.
Please keep doing these OP, it's really nice to see how this develops. Looking forward to the 1.1.2 changes (should show some more Z and P numbers).
OP, maybe it's also cool to post the stats of multiple patches so we can clearly see the development over a longer time..
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On October 15 2010 02:34 Dragonsven wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2010 02:31 Phrencys wrote:
Still no IdrA to be seen, yet Dimaga and Cool manage to get away with some wins.
Also, is MorroW still switching to Zerg?
It would be so entertaining to see MorroW win a tournament as Zerg; and funny to see IdrA eat his words. My prediction is Idra will never win a major tournament. His play is one dimensional, he's easily exploited. Especially considering people he's facing have equal or better mechanics than him now.
Your prediction failed you
He's not as one dimensional as before. He's better and less predictable now.
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If you look at percentages, almost all of the increase in Z is offset by a loss in P. Protoss actually went from an approximately proportionate share (28.5% by wins, 33.3% by winners) to around a ~20% share in all areas. Terran only dropped 3-4%. It's kind of hard to draw any conclusions from that though, considering how grossly under-represented Zergs were in the previous list.
Before 1.1
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Wins by race
T - 66.2%
P - 28.5%
Z - 05.1%
Winners by race
T - 61.1%
P - 33.3%
Z - 05.5%
After 1.1
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Wins by race
T - 62.1%
P - 21.6%
Z - 13.5%
Winners by race
T - 58.3%
P - 20.8%
Z - 16.6%
(I probably made a mistake with that, though)
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On October 15 2010 03:52 AyJay wrote:
"Stalkers can blink therefore it's IMBA"
"Mule gives you 270 minerals therefore it's IMBA"
"Viking 9 range, therefore it's IMBA"
YES!
And also Marauder is IMBA therefore it's IMBA.
Pls fix all of the above.
On a more serious note - It's absolutely understandable that a summary of tournament results by race opens balance disussions. I actually prefer that balance discussions be based on this then people's prejudices and theorycrafting.
Tourney results indicate T is very popular with the professional players and wins most often. One explanation is that T is A BIT stronger then the other two races, and therefore more balance work should be done. Are there any other explanations for this phenomenon that can be offered? Or wshould we go straight into discussion on what should be fixed?
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On October 15 2010 02:34 Dragonsven wrote:Show nested quote +On October 15 2010 02:31 Phrencys wrote:
Still no IdrA to be seen, yet Dimaga and Cool manage to get away with some wins.
Also, is MorroW still switching to Zerg?
It would be so entertaining to see MorroW win a tournament as Zerg; and funny to see IdrA eat his words. My prediction is Idra will never win a major tournament. His play is one dimensional, he's easily exploited. Especially considering people he's facing have equal or better mechanics than him now.
Welp, there goes that theory. Idra is an outstanding player.
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Idra appears to have improved.
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On October 17 2010 22:42 Dionyseus wrote:
Idra appears to have improved.
I agree.
But he's always been the best NA player.
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this should probably be on liquipedia
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you should make a thread about "money won in october" or "money won in september"
this reflects the dominant players much more
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Terran players are totally not getting by on the strength of their race .
thanks for compiling this list btw, very nice of you. Curious to see how it changes with 1.2
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EPT
