• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 07:08
CET 13:08
KST 21:08
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT28Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book19Clem wins HomeStory Cup 289HomeStory Cup 28 - Info & Preview13Rongyi Cup S3 - Preview & Info8
Community News
Weekly Cups (Feb 16-22): MaxPax doubles0Weekly Cups (Feb 9-15): herO doubles up2ACS replaced by "ASL Season Open" - Starts 21/0247LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals (Feb 10-16)46Weekly Cups (Feb 2-8): Classic, Solar, MaxPax win2
StarCraft 2
General
How do you think the 5.0.15 balance patch (Oct 2025) for StarCraft II has affected the game? Nexon's StarCraft game could be FPS, led by UMS maker ByuL: The Forgotten Master of ZvT Oliveira Would Have Returned If EWC Continued Behind the Blue - Team Liquid History Book
Tourneys
PIG STY FESTIVAL 7.0! (19 Feb - 1 Mar) SEL Doubles (SC Evo Bimonthly) WardiTV Team League Season 10 RSL Season 4 announced for March-April The Dave Testa Open #11
Strategy
Custom Maps
Publishing has been re-enabled! [Feb 24th 2026] Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 514 Ulnar New Year The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 513 Attrition Warfare Mutation # 512 Overclocked
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion TvZ is the most complete match up Soma Explains: JD's Unrelenting Aggro vs FlaSh CasterMuse Youtube ACS replaced by "ASL Season Open" - Starts 21/02
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues Small VOD Thread 2.0 Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 1 [LIVE] [S:21] ASL Season Open Day 1
Strategy
Fighting Spirit mining rates Simple Questions, Simple Answers Zealot bombing is no longer popular?
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Battle Aces/David Kim RTS Megathread Path of Exile Beyond All Reason New broswer game : STG-World
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Vanilla Mini Mafia Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
UK Politics Mega-thread US Politics Mega-thread YouTube Thread Mexico's Drug War Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The IdrA Fan Club The herO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [Manga] One Piece Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion TL MMA Pick'em Pool 2013
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Laptop capable of using Photoshop Lightroom?
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
YOUTUBE VIDEO
XenOsky
Unintentional protectionism…
Uldridge
ASL S21 English Commentary…
namkraft
Inside the Communication of …
TrAiDoS
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1668 users

race v race statistics based on 551 "top" replays - Page 3

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 Next All
Uranium
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1077 Posts
September 21 2010 16:16 GMT
#41
I am looking at the list of player names in the replay aggregator, and these are definitely all top players. I'd say the sample is a pretty accurate representation of the "pro scene" right now. Of course it is small, but it's lonely at the top as they say.

If there are the least number of ZvP replays, it's because ZvP represents the least portion of matches played at the pro level (or any level, probably). This is natural due to the lower popularity of Z and P vs T. In fact the numbers of replays correspond exactly with the popularity of the races:
TvP > TvZ > PvZ
T > P > Z

I think this data is pretty good, assuming these replay sites aggregate all matches from tournaments equally (which they probably do). Seems like a pretty damning statement about how the progamers feel about Zerg. Hopefully the patch today will change some things?
"Sentry imba! You see? YOU SEE??!!" - Sen | "Marauder die die!" - oGsMC | "Oh my god, she texted me back!" - Day[9]
ionlyplayPROtoss
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada573 Posts
September 21 2010 16:17 GMT
#42
Basically Terran>zerg and protoss and protoss>zerg

NOt really surprised but i think zerg needs buff.
Deleted User 3420
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
24492 Posts
September 21 2010 16:18 GMT
#43
wow, people are actually looking at this data like it means something


seriously?
Chairman Ray
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States11903 Posts
September 21 2010 16:19 GMT
#44
sample size is a bit small, but great idea. I would love to see this extend to 10,000 replays.
Ketara
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States15065 Posts
September 21 2010 16:22 GMT
#45
This kind of a crawler needs to be in place for the upcoming patch, so two months from now we have several thousand high diamond games to look at, and can be looking at map specific data in addition to matchup specific data.
http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/lol-general/502075-patch-61-league-of-legends-general-discussion?page=25#498
MrBitter
Profile Joined January 2008
United States2940 Posts
September 21 2010 16:23 GMT
#46
Very cool concept. I'm looking forward to seeing your data after you've logged a few thousand replays.
Shikyo
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Finland33997 Posts
September 21 2010 16:28 GMT
#47
On September 22 2010 01:18 travis wrote:
wow, people are actually looking at this data like it means something


seriously?

This data alone doesn't prove much. However, since it reinforces the data of about 500 different sources of some kind, it all adds up, now doesn't it?
League of Legends EU West, Platinum III | Yousei Teikoku is the best thing that has ever happened to music.
Lefnui
Profile Joined November 2008
United States753 Posts
September 21 2010 16:28 GMT
#48
On September 22 2010 01:18 travis wrote:
wow, people are actually looking at this data like it means something


seriously?

Well it's very consistent with the state of balance, so yeah, seriously.
EliteAzn
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States661 Posts
September 21 2010 16:38 GMT
#49
I like the idea and effort put into this research. Have fun w/ it after the patch and looking forward to the data. Becareful about duplicate matches (mentioned above). Other than that, nice work and its nice to see I'm not the only one have zvp troubles...
(╯`Д´)╯︵ ┻━┻ High Five! _o /\ o_
Gigaudas
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Sweden1213 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-21 16:45:08
September 21 2010 16:41 GMT
#50
You can't analyze balance on the ladder as people will always have a fairly balanced win ratio. You have to look at where people are placed on the ladder - the race ratio in the top of the ladder and in the last rounds of tournaments are what proves imbalance.

This also means that a race SHOULD be doing better than the other races for a short while after the buff as the players will win more until they're on the same rank as players who play the races that used to be more powerful. If they don't, then they weren't buffed enough.
I
Sideburn
Profile Joined August 2010
United States442 Posts
September 21 2010 16:52 GMT
#51
I wretch every time I hear "Sample too small".

Less than 30 might be considered a small sample size.
Nightfall.589
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada766 Posts
September 21 2010 17:13 GMT
#52
The problem is not that it's too small.

The problem is that it's not a random sample.

STATS 101, people.
Proof by Legislation: An entire body of (sort-of) elected officials is more correct than all of the known laws of physics, math and science as a whole. -Scott McIntyre
IPS.Mardow.
Profile Joined November 2009
Germany713 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-21 17:19:21
September 21 2010 17:18 GMT
#53
ZvP slowly seems to become harder than ZvT. At least for me and people I talked to (Darkforce for example)
Deleted User 3420
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
24492 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-21 17:20:33
September 21 2010 17:19 GMT
#54
On September 22 2010 02:13 Nightfall.589 wrote:
The problem is not that it's too small.

The problem is that it's not a random sample.

STATS 101, people.



THIS

(and honestly the sample is small, too. but that's not the primary problem)
TehForce
Profile Joined July 2010
1072 Posts
September 21 2010 17:27 GMT
#55
Thats not a very clever way to determine balance. Normally people will post replays winning and not horribly losing. Even the players posting replays when they are losing, normally post much more where there are winning.

So its clear that T>P>Z seems to be the case because the number of players are also T>P>Z....
NesTea <3
Cheerio
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Ukraine3178 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-21 17:35:29
September 21 2010 17:31 GMT
#56
When I was random my races were T>P>>Z. So the result is just what my experience has been.
On September 22 2010 02:13 Nightfall.589 wrote:
The problem is not that it's too small.

The problem is that it's not a random sample.

lol. The only thing that is not random is that they are taken from the highest level play and not from bronze to diamond alltogether. Yeah lets value the balance by absolutely random replays.
dRaW
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Canada5744 Posts
September 21 2010 17:31 GMT
#57
TvZ 60%
PvZ 58%
PvT 49.5%

I thought TvP was imba with all those marine rush wins in GSL, but I guess it was much more balanced. I'm actually surprised tho that more people aren't changing to zerg, you would think more people want to play a race less people play [Or take on the challenge]
I don't need luck, luck is for noobs, good luck to you though
FabledIntegral
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States9232 Posts
September 21 2010 17:34 GMT
#58
On September 21 2010 22:24 Too_MuchZerg wrote:
NOT RELATED to bingobangos replay data

All TLPD games from international version (9 maps used)

TvZ: 163-107 (60.4%)
ZvP: 66-90 (42.3%)
PvT: 212-216 (49.5%)

Mirrors:
TvT: 423
ZvZ: 12
PvP: 118

Total games 2261 :
1121 (49.6%)
438 (19.4%)
702 (31.0%)

Remember TLPD counts only from RO16/RO8 and forward if online cup format. LAN games TLPD tries to add all games


omgwut
zeru
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
8156 Posts
September 21 2010 17:47 GMT
#59
--- Nuked ---
FabledIntegral
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States9232 Posts
September 21 2010 17:53 GMT
#60
On September 22 2010 02:47 zeru wrote:
I'd say data like the one here:
http://sc2ranks.com/stats/region/all/all/all
is more trustworthy than non random small number of replays.


Why in the world would you want a random sample of players? And the sample size he used isn't by any means small.
Prev 1 2 3 4 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
PiG Sty Festival
09:00
PiGFest 7 Playoffs Day 1
herO vs SolarLIVE!
Serral vs TBD
PiGStarcraft1812
ComeBackTV 1045
Rex202
IndyStarCraft 196
BRAT_OK 188
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
PiGStarcraft1812
Rex 202
IndyStarCraft 196
BRAT_OK 188
Lowko156
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 38692
Calm 8296
Sea 3836
Rain 1939
Horang2 1636
Jaedong 838
Stork 389
Snow 243
Soma 202
Light 162
[ Show more ]
ZerO 127
hero 125
Larva 117
Rush 100
Dewaltoss 89
Pusan 60
ToSsGirL 55
Shine 53
Sea.KH 51
JYJ 49
Backho 46
JulyZerg 43
EffOrt 37
Mind 32
Killer 32
Barracks 31
Sharp 24
Movie 22
Icarus 21
sorry 17
yabsab 17
Bale 15
Hm[arnc] 13
IntoTheRainbow 13
ivOry 5
[sc1f]eonzerg 1
Dota 2
Gorgc2871
XcaliburYe82
Counter-Strike
olofmeister2149
pashabiceps1587
Other Games
singsing2809
B2W.Neo544
crisheroes350
Fuzer 144
Happy135
Mew2King65
QueenE54
NeuroSwarm36
ZerO(Twitch)11
Organizations
Counter-Strike
PGL342
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 11 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
League of Legends
• Stunt642
Upcoming Events
Big Brain Bouts
4h 52m
Shino vs DnS
SpeCial vs Mixu
TriGGeR vs Cure
Korean StarCraft League
14h 52m
PiG Sty Festival
20h 52m
Reynor vs Clem
ShowTime vs SHIN
CranKy Ducklings
21h 52m
OSC
22h 52m
SC Evo Complete
1d 1h
DaveTesta Events
1d 6h
AI Arena Tournament
1d 7h
Replay Cast
1d 11h
PiG Sty Festival
1d 20h
[ Show More ]
Sparkling Tuna Cup
1d 21h
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
2 days
Replay Cast
2 days
Wardi Open
2 days
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
Replay Cast
3 days
Replay Cast
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
The PondCast
5 days
KCM Race Survival
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-02-26
LiuLi Cup: 2025 Grand Finals
Underdog Cup #3

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 1
Acropolis #4 - TS5
Jeongseon Sooper Cup
Spring Cup 2026
WardiTV Winter 2026
PiG Sty Festival 7.0
Nations Cup 2026
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
eXTREMESLAND 2025

Upcoming

[S:21] ASL SEASON OPEN 2nd Round
[S:21] ASL SEASON OPEN 2nd Round Qualifier
ASL Season 21: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 21: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 21
Acropolis #4 - TS6
Acropolis #4
HSC XXIX
uThermal 2v2 2026 Main Event
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
RSL Revival: Season 4
NationLESS Cup
IEM Atlanta 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026
CCT Season 3 Global Finals
FISSURE Playground #3
IEM Rio 2026
PGL Bucharest 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 1
BLAST Open Spring 2026
ESL Pro League S23 Finals
ESL Pro League S23 Stage 1&2
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.