• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EST 09:33
CET 15:33
KST 23:33
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
RSL Revival - 2025 Season Finals Preview8RSL Season 3 - Playoffs Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups C & D Preview0RSL Season 3 - RO16 Groups A & B Preview2TL.net Map Contest #21: Winners12
Community News
Weekly Cups (Dec 15-21): Classic wins big, MaxPax & Clem take weeklies3ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career !11Weekly Cups (Dec 8-14): MaxPax, Clem, Cure win4Weekly Cups (Dec 1-7): Clem doubles, Solar gets over the hump1Weekly Cups (Nov 24-30): MaxPax, Clem, herO win2
StarCraft 2
General
ComeBackTV's documentary on Byun's Career ! Team TLMC #5: Winners Announced! What's the best tug of war? The Grack before Christmas Weekly Cups (Dec 15-21): Classic wins big, MaxPax & Clem take weeklies
Tourneys
OSC Season 13 World Championship $5,000+ WardiTV 2025 Championship $100 Prize Pool - Winter Warp Gate Masters Showdow Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Winter Warp Gate Amateur Showdown #1
Strategy
Custom Maps
Map Editor closed ?
External Content
Mutation # 505 Rise From Ashes Mutation # 504 Retribution Mutation # 503 Fowl Play Mutation # 502 Negative Reinforcement
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion How soO Began His ProGaming Dreams Klaucher discontinued / in-game color settings BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Recommended FPV games (post-KeSPA)
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [BSL21] LB SemiFinals - Saturday 21:00 CET [BSL21] WB & LB Finals - Sunday 21:00 CET Small VOD Thread 2.0
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Game Theory for Starcraft Current Meta Fighting Spirit mining rates
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread Mechabellum Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Beyond All Reason Path of Exile
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
Mafia Game Mode Feedback/Ideas Survivor II: The Amazon Sengoku Mafia TL Mafia Community Thread
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread 12 Days of Starcraft The Games Industry And ATVI Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine
Fan Clubs
White-Ra Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread [Manga] One Piece
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Formula 1 Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List TL+ Announced Where to ask questions and add stream?
Blogs
National Diversity: A Challe…
TrAiDoS
I decided to write a webnov…
DjKniteX
James Bond movies ranking - pa…
Topin
Thanks for the RSL
Hildegard
Saturation point
Uldridge
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1584 users

race v race statistics based on 551 "top" replays - Page 3

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 Next All
Uranium
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1077 Posts
September 21 2010 16:16 GMT
#41
I am looking at the list of player names in the replay aggregator, and these are definitely all top players. I'd say the sample is a pretty accurate representation of the "pro scene" right now. Of course it is small, but it's lonely at the top as they say.

If there are the least number of ZvP replays, it's because ZvP represents the least portion of matches played at the pro level (or any level, probably). This is natural due to the lower popularity of Z and P vs T. In fact the numbers of replays correspond exactly with the popularity of the races:
TvP > TvZ > PvZ
T > P > Z

I think this data is pretty good, assuming these replay sites aggregate all matches from tournaments equally (which they probably do). Seems like a pretty damning statement about how the progamers feel about Zerg. Hopefully the patch today will change some things?
"Sentry imba! You see? YOU SEE??!!" - Sen | "Marauder die die!" - oGsMC | "Oh my god, she texted me back!" - Day[9]
ionlyplayPROtoss
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada573 Posts
September 21 2010 16:17 GMT
#42
Basically Terran>zerg and protoss and protoss>zerg

NOt really surprised but i think zerg needs buff.
Deleted User 3420
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
24492 Posts
September 21 2010 16:18 GMT
#43
wow, people are actually looking at this data like it means something


seriously?
Chairman Ray
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States11903 Posts
September 21 2010 16:19 GMT
#44
sample size is a bit small, but great idea. I would love to see this extend to 10,000 replays.
Ketara
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States15065 Posts
September 21 2010 16:22 GMT
#45
This kind of a crawler needs to be in place for the upcoming patch, so two months from now we have several thousand high diamond games to look at, and can be looking at map specific data in addition to matchup specific data.
http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/lol-general/502075-patch-61-league-of-legends-general-discussion?page=25#498
MrBitter
Profile Joined January 2008
United States2940 Posts
September 21 2010 16:23 GMT
#46
Very cool concept. I'm looking forward to seeing your data after you've logged a few thousand replays.
Shikyo
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Finland33997 Posts
September 21 2010 16:28 GMT
#47
On September 22 2010 01:18 travis wrote:
wow, people are actually looking at this data like it means something


seriously?

This data alone doesn't prove much. However, since it reinforces the data of about 500 different sources of some kind, it all adds up, now doesn't it?
League of Legends EU West, Platinum III | Yousei Teikoku is the best thing that has ever happened to music.
Lefnui
Profile Joined November 2008
United States753 Posts
September 21 2010 16:28 GMT
#48
On September 22 2010 01:18 travis wrote:
wow, people are actually looking at this data like it means something


seriously?

Well it's very consistent with the state of balance, so yeah, seriously.
EliteAzn
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States661 Posts
September 21 2010 16:38 GMT
#49
I like the idea and effort put into this research. Have fun w/ it after the patch and looking forward to the data. Becareful about duplicate matches (mentioned above). Other than that, nice work and its nice to see I'm not the only one have zvp troubles...
(╯`Д´)╯︵ ┻━┻ High Five! _o /\ o_
Gigaudas
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Sweden1213 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-21 16:45:08
September 21 2010 16:41 GMT
#50
You can't analyze balance on the ladder as people will always have a fairly balanced win ratio. You have to look at where people are placed on the ladder - the race ratio in the top of the ladder and in the last rounds of tournaments are what proves imbalance.

This also means that a race SHOULD be doing better than the other races for a short while after the buff as the players will win more until they're on the same rank as players who play the races that used to be more powerful. If they don't, then they weren't buffed enough.
I
Sideburn
Profile Joined August 2010
United States442 Posts
September 21 2010 16:52 GMT
#51
I wretch every time I hear "Sample too small".

Less than 30 might be considered a small sample size.
Nightfall.589
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada766 Posts
September 21 2010 17:13 GMT
#52
The problem is not that it's too small.

The problem is that it's not a random sample.

STATS 101, people.
Proof by Legislation: An entire body of (sort-of) elected officials is more correct than all of the known laws of physics, math and science as a whole. -Scott McIntyre
IPS.Mardow.
Profile Joined November 2009
Germany713 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-21 17:19:21
September 21 2010 17:18 GMT
#53
ZvP slowly seems to become harder than ZvT. At least for me and people I talked to (Darkforce for example)
Deleted User 3420
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
24492 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-21 17:20:33
September 21 2010 17:19 GMT
#54
On September 22 2010 02:13 Nightfall.589 wrote:
The problem is not that it's too small.

The problem is that it's not a random sample.

STATS 101, people.



THIS

(and honestly the sample is small, too. but that's not the primary problem)
TehForce
Profile Joined July 2010
1072 Posts
September 21 2010 17:27 GMT
#55
Thats not a very clever way to determine balance. Normally people will post replays winning and not horribly losing. Even the players posting replays when they are losing, normally post much more where there are winning.

So its clear that T>P>Z seems to be the case because the number of players are also T>P>Z....
NesTea <3
Cheerio
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Ukraine3178 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-21 17:35:29
September 21 2010 17:31 GMT
#56
When I was random my races were T>P>>Z. So the result is just what my experience has been.
On September 22 2010 02:13 Nightfall.589 wrote:
The problem is not that it's too small.

The problem is that it's not a random sample.

lol. The only thing that is not random is that they are taken from the highest level play and not from bronze to diamond alltogether. Yeah lets value the balance by absolutely random replays.
dRaW
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Canada5744 Posts
September 21 2010 17:31 GMT
#57
TvZ 60%
PvZ 58%
PvT 49.5%

I thought TvP was imba with all those marine rush wins in GSL, but I guess it was much more balanced. I'm actually surprised tho that more people aren't changing to zerg, you would think more people want to play a race less people play [Or take on the challenge]
I don't need luck, luck is for noobs, good luck to you though
FabledIntegral
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States9232 Posts
September 21 2010 17:34 GMT
#58
On September 21 2010 22:24 Too_MuchZerg wrote:
NOT RELATED to bingobangos replay data

All TLPD games from international version (9 maps used)

TvZ: 163-107 (60.4%)
ZvP: 66-90 (42.3%)
PvT: 212-216 (49.5%)

Mirrors:
TvT: 423
ZvZ: 12
PvP: 118

Total games 2261 :
1121 (49.6%)
438 (19.4%)
702 (31.0%)

Remember TLPD counts only from RO16/RO8 and forward if online cup format. LAN games TLPD tries to add all games


omgwut
zeru
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
8156 Posts
September 21 2010 17:47 GMT
#59
--- Nuked ---
FabledIntegral
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States9232 Posts
September 21 2010 17:53 GMT
#60
On September 22 2010 02:47 zeru wrote:
I'd say data like the one here:
http://sc2ranks.com/stats/region/all/all/all
is more trustworthy than non random small number of replays.


Why in the world would you want a random sample of players? And the sample size he used isn't by any means small.
Prev 1 2 3 4 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 3h 28m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
MindelVK 31
StarCraft: Brood War
Britney 36241
Rain 9539
Sea 5139
Jaedong 1960
EffOrt 757
GuemChi 739
Stork 713
Mini 597
Shuttle 473
Light 385
[ Show more ]
Soma 381
firebathero 317
hero 287
ggaemo 266
Rush 229
PianO 203
Hyuk 195
Mong 155
Last 125
Hyun 96
Mind 88
Pusan 72
Barracks 68
ToSsGirL 58
Sea.KH 54
sorry 46
soO 45
Terrorterran 29
yabsab 29
zelot 23
Shine 20
ajuk12(nOOB) 17
Sexy 15
JulyZerg 11
SilentControl 10
HiyA 8
eros_byul 0
Dota 2
syndereN1068
BananaSlamJamma325
canceldota81
Fuzer 29
League of Legends
C9.Mang0413
Counter-Strike
x6flipin1129
Other Games
Grubby4222
singsing2697
B2W.Neo2411
Hui .298
Mew2King63
mouzStarbuck26
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick876
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• LUISG 141
• 3DClanTV 35
• iHatsuTV 6
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• Ler80
League of Legends
• Jankos2415
• Nemesis2177
Upcoming Events
OSC
3h 28m
BSL 21
5h 28m
Cross vs Dewalt
Replay Cast
18h 28m
Wardi Open
21h 28m
OSC
1d 21h
Solar vs MaxPax
ByuN vs Krystianer
Spirit vs TBD
OSC
4 days
Korean StarCraft League
5 days
OSC
5 days
OSC
6 days
OSC
6 days
[ Show More ]
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Escore Tournament S1: W1
WardiTV 2025
META Madness #9

Ongoing

C-Race Season 1
IPSL Winter 2025-26
BSL Season 21
CSL Season 19: Qualifier 2
eXTREMESLAND 2025
SL Budapest Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 8
BLAST Rivals Fall 2025
IEM Chengdu 2025
PGL Masters Bucharest 2025
Thunderpick World Champ.
CS Asia Championships 2025

Upcoming

CSL 2025 WINTER (S19)
Escore Tournament S1: W2
Escore Tournament S1: W3
BSL 21 Non-Korean Championship
Acropolis #4
IPSL Spring 2026
Bellum Gens Elite Stara Zagora 2026
HSC XXVIII
Big Gabe Cup #3
OSC Championship Season 13
Nations Cup 2026
ESL Pro League Season 23
PGL Cluj-Napoca 2026
IEM Kraków 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter 2026
BLAST Bounty Winter Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.