• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 15:03
CEST 21:03
KST 04:03
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Serral wins Maestros of the Game 226ByuL, and the Limitations of Standard Play3Team Liquid Map Contest #22: Results and Winners7Code S Season 2 (2026): RO4 and Finals Preview12TL.net Map Contest #22 - Voting & Ladder Map Selection7
Community News
Weekly Cups (June 29-July 5): Solar Doubles0MC vs IdrA, Boxer vs Nal_rA to be Legacy Matches @ BlizzCon415.0.16 Hotfix (June 30) - Balance + Bug Fixes40Weekly Cups (June 22-28): Zergs thrive in new patch5[TLMC] Summer 2026 Ladder Map Rotation0
StarCraft 2
General
Is the larve respawn broken? 5.0.16 patch for SC2 goes live (8 worker start) 5.0.16 Hotfix (June 30) - Balance + Bug Fixes Weekly Cups (June 29-July 5): Solar Doubles MC vs IdrA, Boxer vs Nal_rA to be Legacy Matches @ BlizzCon
Tourneys
GSL CK #5 Race War HomeStory Cup 29 RSL Revival: Season 6 - Qualifiers and Main Event Vespene Cup #1 — $300+ USD, July 10 Douyu Cup 2026: $20,000 Legends Event (June 26-28)
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
New Map Maker - Looking for Advice - Love or Hate Work In Progress Melee Maps [D]RTS in all its shapes and glory <3
External Content
Mutation # 533 Die Together The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 532 Nuclear Family Mutation # 531 Experimental Artillery
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion BGH Auto Balance -> http://bghmmr.eu/ Starcraft vs Retro Category on Twitch Data needed Snow On New ASL S22 Map, Zerg Nerf
Tourneys
CSLAN 4 is Coming! Escore Tournament StarCraft Season 2 The Casual Games of the Week Thread [Megathread] Daily Proleagues
Strategy
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Creating a full chart of Zerg builds Relatively freeroll strategies Why doesn't anyone use restoration?
Other Games
General Games
Dawn of War IV Summer Games Done Quick 2026! Nintendo Switch Thread Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread ZeroSpace at Steam NextFest - Last free demo
Dota 2
Looking for a Dota Mentor Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance TL Mafia Community Thread TL Mafia Power Rank Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Russo-Ukrainian War Thread UK Politics Mega-thread YouTube Thread Canadian Politics Mega-thread
Fan Clubs
The HerO Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! Series you have seen recently... [Req][Books] Good Fantasy/SciFi books [TV/BOOK] *SPOILERS* Game of Thrones Discussion
Sports
2024 - 2026 Football Thread Tennis[sport] Formula 1 Discussion McBoner: A hockey love story TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
FPS when play League Of Legend on laptop How to clean a TTe Thermaltake keyboard? Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Major Shifts in the Gaming I…
TrAiDoS
An Exploration of th…
waywardstrategy
I'm an arrogant trash talke…
FlaShFTW
Gauntlet SC2: A Retrospectiv…
Ctone23
ramps on octagon
StaticNine
Funny Nicknames
LUCKY_NOOB
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 5683 users

race v race statistics based on 551 "top" replays - Page 3

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Prev 1 2 3 4 Next All
Uranium
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1077 Posts
September 21 2010 16:16 GMT
#41
I am looking at the list of player names in the replay aggregator, and these are definitely all top players. I'd say the sample is a pretty accurate representation of the "pro scene" right now. Of course it is small, but it's lonely at the top as they say.

If there are the least number of ZvP replays, it's because ZvP represents the least portion of matches played at the pro level (or any level, probably). This is natural due to the lower popularity of Z and P vs T. In fact the numbers of replays correspond exactly with the popularity of the races:
TvP > TvZ > PvZ
T > P > Z

I think this data is pretty good, assuming these replay sites aggregate all matches from tournaments equally (which they probably do). Seems like a pretty damning statement about how the progamers feel about Zerg. Hopefully the patch today will change some things?
"Sentry imba! You see? YOU SEE??!!" - Sen | "Marauder die die!" - oGsMC | "Oh my god, she texted me back!" - Day[9]
ionlyplayPROtoss
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada573 Posts
September 21 2010 16:17 GMT
#42
Basically Terran>zerg and protoss and protoss>zerg

NOt really surprised but i think zerg needs buff.
Deleted User 3420
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
24492 Posts
September 21 2010 16:18 GMT
#43
wow, people are actually looking at this data like it means something


seriously?
Chairman Ray
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
United States11903 Posts
September 21 2010 16:19 GMT
#44
sample size is a bit small, but great idea. I would love to see this extend to 10,000 replays.
Ketara
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States15065 Posts
September 21 2010 16:22 GMT
#45
This kind of a crawler needs to be in place for the upcoming patch, so two months from now we have several thousand high diamond games to look at, and can be looking at map specific data in addition to matchup specific data.
http://www.liquidlegends.net/forum/lol-general/502075-patch-61-league-of-legends-general-discussion?page=25#498
MrBitter
Profile Joined January 2008
United States2940 Posts
September 21 2010 16:23 GMT
#46
Very cool concept. I'm looking forward to seeing your data after you've logged a few thousand replays.
Shikyo
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
Finland33997 Posts
September 21 2010 16:28 GMT
#47
On September 22 2010 01:18 travis wrote:
wow, people are actually looking at this data like it means something


seriously?

This data alone doesn't prove much. However, since it reinforces the data of about 500 different sources of some kind, it all adds up, now doesn't it?
League of Legends EU West, Platinum III | Yousei Teikoku is the best thing that has ever happened to music.
Lefnui
Profile Joined November 2008
United States753 Posts
September 21 2010 16:28 GMT
#48
On September 22 2010 01:18 travis wrote:
wow, people are actually looking at this data like it means something


seriously?

Well it's very consistent with the state of balance, so yeah, seriously.
EliteAzn
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
United States661 Posts
September 21 2010 16:38 GMT
#49
I like the idea and effort put into this research. Have fun w/ it after the patch and looking forward to the data. Becareful about duplicate matches (mentioned above). Other than that, nice work and its nice to see I'm not the only one have zvp troubles...
(╯`Д´)╯︵ ┻━┻ High Five! _o /\ o_
Gigaudas
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
Sweden1213 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-21 16:45:08
September 21 2010 16:41 GMT
#50
You can't analyze balance on the ladder as people will always have a fairly balanced win ratio. You have to look at where people are placed on the ladder - the race ratio in the top of the ladder and in the last rounds of tournaments are what proves imbalance.

This also means that a race SHOULD be doing better than the other races for a short while after the buff as the players will win more until they're on the same rank as players who play the races that used to be more powerful. If they don't, then they weren't buffed enough.
I
Sideburn
Profile Joined August 2010
United States442 Posts
September 21 2010 16:52 GMT
#51
I wretch every time I hear "Sample too small".

Less than 30 might be considered a small sample size.
Nightfall.589
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada766 Posts
September 21 2010 17:13 GMT
#52
The problem is not that it's too small.

The problem is that it's not a random sample.

STATS 101, people.
Proof by Legislation: An entire body of (sort-of) elected officials is more correct than all of the known laws of physics, math and science as a whole. -Scott McIntyre
IPS.Mardow.
Profile Joined November 2009
Germany713 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-21 17:19:21
September 21 2010 17:18 GMT
#53
ZvP slowly seems to become harder than ZvT. At least for me and people I talked to (Darkforce for example)
Deleted User 3420
Profile Blog Joined May 2003
24492 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-21 17:20:33
September 21 2010 17:19 GMT
#54
On September 22 2010 02:13 Nightfall.589 wrote:
The problem is not that it's too small.

The problem is that it's not a random sample.

STATS 101, people.



THIS

(and honestly the sample is small, too. but that's not the primary problem)
TehForce
Profile Joined July 2010
1072 Posts
September 21 2010 17:27 GMT
#55
Thats not a very clever way to determine balance. Normally people will post replays winning and not horribly losing. Even the players posting replays when they are losing, normally post much more where there are winning.

So its clear that T>P>Z seems to be the case because the number of players are also T>P>Z....
NesTea <3
Cheerio
Profile Blog Joined August 2007
Ukraine3178 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-21 17:35:29
September 21 2010 17:31 GMT
#56
When I was random my races were T>P>>Z. So the result is just what my experience has been.
On September 22 2010 02:13 Nightfall.589 wrote:
The problem is not that it's too small.

The problem is that it's not a random sample.

lol. The only thing that is not random is that they are taken from the highest level play and not from bronze to diamond alltogether. Yeah lets value the balance by absolutely random replays.
dRaW
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Canada5744 Posts
September 21 2010 17:31 GMT
#57
TvZ 60%
PvZ 58%
PvT 49.5%

I thought TvP was imba with all those marine rush wins in GSL, but I guess it was much more balanced. I'm actually surprised tho that more people aren't changing to zerg, you would think more people want to play a race less people play [Or take on the challenge]
I don't need luck, luck is for noobs, good luck to you though
FabledIntegral
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States9232 Posts
September 21 2010 17:34 GMT
#58
On September 21 2010 22:24 Too_MuchZerg wrote:
NOT RELATED to bingobangos replay data

All TLPD games from international version (9 maps used)

TvZ: 163-107 (60.4%)
ZvP: 66-90 (42.3%)
PvT: 212-216 (49.5%)

Mirrors:
TvT: 423
ZvZ: 12
PvP: 118

Total games 2261 :
1121 (49.6%)
438 (19.4%)
702 (31.0%)

Remember TLPD counts only from RO16/RO8 and forward if online cup format. LAN games TLPD tries to add all games


omgwut
zeru
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
8156 Posts
September 21 2010 17:47 GMT
#59
--- Nuked ---
FabledIntegral
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
United States9232 Posts
September 21 2010 17:53 GMT
#60
On September 22 2010 02:47 zeru wrote:
I'd say data like the one here:
http://sc2ranks.com/stats/region/all/all/all
is more trustworthy than non random small number of replays.


Why in the world would you want a random sample of players? And the sample size he used isn't by any means small.
Prev 1 2 3 4 Next All
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
Next event in 13h 57m
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
elazer 935
FoxeR 71
BRAT_OK 70
Railgan 45
MindelVK 12
StarCraft: Brood War
Calm 3114
Mini 352
Dewaltoss 178
Soulkey 169
BeSt 148
ggaemo 129
Free 53
HiyA 24
Dota 2
Gorgc9167
LuMiX0
Counter-Strike
fl0m1760
pashabiceps833
Super Smash Bros
Mew2King144
Other Games
Grubby2800
FrodaN1470
B2W.Neo493
C9.Mang0283
Organizations
Other Games
gamesdonequick39373
BasetradeTV190
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
[ Show 16 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• StrangeGG 62
• Reevou 10
• musti20045 8
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• 80smullet 20
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV421
Other Games
• imaqtpie812
Upcoming Events
Replay Cast
13h 57m
CrankTV Team League
15h 57m
OSC
21h 57m
Replay Cast
1d 4h
Replay Cast
1d 13h
CrankTV Team League
1d 15h
OSC
1d 17h
Replay Cast
2 days
RSL Revival
2 days
Serral vs Bunny
ByuN vs GgMaChine
CranKy Ducklings
2 days
[ Show More ]
Afreeca Starleague
2 days
Snow vs Jaedong
YSC vs hero
RSL Revival
3 days
Solar vs Rogue
Maru vs NightMare
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
GSL
4 days
Replay Cast
5 days
WardiTV Weekly
5 days
The PondCast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Season 21: Qualifier 2
HSC XXIX
Eternal Conflict S2 E1

Ongoing

IPSL Spring 2026
Acropolis #4
YSL S3
CSL 2026 Summer (S21)
SCTL 2026 Spring
XSE Pro League 2026
IEM Cologne Major 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 2
CS Asia Championships 2026
Asian Champions League 2026
IEM Atlanta 2026
PGL Astana 2026
BLAST Rivals Spring 2026

Upcoming

Escore Tournament S3: W2
ASL Season 22: Wild Card Qualifier
CSLAN 4
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Revival: Season 6
CranK Gathers Season 4: BW vs SC2 Team League
Light Tournament 2026
Eternal Conflict S2 Finale
Eternal Conflict S2 E3
Eternal Conflict S2 E2
Heroes Pulsing #3
Logitech G Connect 2026
StarSeries Fall 2026
FISSURE Playground #5
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.