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8748 Posts
On September 02 2010 07:53 Vexx wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2010 07:50 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On September 02 2010 07:46 cup of joe wrote:
it means absolutely nothing because the sample size is tiny at the right end of the graph There is no sample size. This is a graph of the entire population. Not quite. He means that there are so few players at the highest point levels that you can't use that information reliably.
Use it reliably for what? He says it's not possible to answer a question using this data without indicating what the question is...?
There is nothing wrong with the data and the right end of the graph does not rely on a sample.
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Looking at the data, anything past 1400, the data sample is too small (5z/22t/10p for 1401-1500 and it gets smaller from there).
However, it is pretty convincing that Terran seems to be dominating at very high level of play. Terran needs a nerf? That's what patches 1.1 and on are for.
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8748 Posts
On September 02 2010 07:59 EliteAzn wrote:
Looking at the data, anything past 1400, the data sample is too small (5z/22t/10p for 1401-1500 and it gets smaller from there).
Too small for what?
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Popularity does not equal strength.
The fact that people have this *idea* that terran might be OP and that zerg might suck will make them play terran more. You see terran all the time at high levels simply because there are more terran than zerg. The more people cry "terran OP," the more people will switch over to it.
The top players are there because they are the best players. Not because of their race. The reason there are so many terrans at the top is because there are so many terrans overall.
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On September 02 2010 07:52 Sentenal wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2010 07:46 cup of joe wrote:
it means absolutely nothing because the sample size is tiny at the right end of the graph I disagree that it means absolutely nothing. Because regardless of numbers, the right end of the graph represents the "top players", and it shows that amoung them, Terran is dominate. However, it would be nice to see the sample size there to put it into context.
There's currently 65k players in the diamond league, only 27k diamond players are at least 600 points.
source: http://www.sc2ranks.com/stats/league/all/1/all
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So on lower level, with Protoss, its easier to win ( proxy 2 gate, 4gate all in), but on top tier, protoss looks balanced, and zerg underpreforming compared to terran
Thats pretty much sums up every thread full of whines, that was made the last 4 weeks.
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this graph means jack shit when it doesn't even indicate how many people are within each grouping.
ex. what if only 10 people were in the 1500 range
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That is a bit disturbing.
Looking at the 600-1100 range all I can think of is 4 gate. It would be nice to see the number of people in each group between 1200 and 1500 if there are very few people it could be said that racial imbalance is only affecting the highest levels of play severely. If there is a decent number of people between that range then it could suggest that the reason there are fewer terran players between 600 and 1100 is because most of the diamond worthy terran players are in the higher ranges.
It would be interesting to see what is up with the random players, it follows a strange curve.
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I got a Theory a little off topic:
I am a Daimond ranom player, the higher I get, the less I spawn as Terran, the more as Zerg.
Is blizzard using us to compansate the lack of race distribution? :O
---Na, just kidding, but out of 20 games today I spawned friggin 17 times Zerg xD.
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Nice graph, shows clearly that Zerg dwindle at the very top. I don't understand why so many people responding to this thread can't read a simple graph.
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On September 02 2010 08:01 Liquid`Tyler wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2010 07:59 EliteAzn wrote:
Looking at the data, anything past 1400, the data sample is too small (5z/22t/10p for 1401-1500 and it gets smaller from there). Too small for what?
Too small to make a very solid point that Terran is OP and Blizzard screwed up big time. For example (this is an extreme case), I can say Zerg is Extremely OP at the Extremely high Bronze level (There is 1 zerg/player who has 2001+ points in Bronze (lol)).
Yes, it's a trend and we can all see that the # of zerg players is decreasing as points increase. Same said with Terran but the opposite (increasing)
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isnt it obvious?
1200-1500 terran gets higher and higher in number, which shows that the race if used right is too strong
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i'm not too sure what to make of this graph. it appears protoss is the most common race and evenly distributed. also it appears terran players have an easier time reaching the top of the ladder than are other races although maybe just maybe it's because there are more of them?
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Zerg is consistently the lowest, which may be a result of less Zerg players, but right between mid and high ELO, there is a shift between Protoss being the top and Terran being the top. This may be a clear indication that Terran's strength increases much more rapidly as the player's skill increases compared to Protoss.
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On September 02 2010 08:07 EliteAzn wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2010 08:01 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On September 02 2010 07:59 EliteAzn wrote:
Looking at the data, anything past 1400, the data sample is too small (5z/22t/10p for 1401-1500 and it gets smaller from there). Too small for what? Too small to make a very solid point that Terran is OP and Blizzard screwed up big time. For example (this is an extreme case), I can say Zerg is Extremely OP at the Extremely high Bronze level (There is 1 zerg/player who has 2001+ points in Bronze (lol)). Yes, it's a trend and we can all see that the # of zerg players is decreasing as points increase. Same said with Terran but the opposite (increasing)
how can it be too small? it are the best player lol
if it would be bigger then there would be way to many not good player inclueded
look at broodwar u have flash jeadong and nobody more at the top
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At the same time, doesn't this mean the terran imbalance is only really determinative at the 1000+ diamond level (although it may be easier for terrans to compete in general, it seems that its not unbeatable until it reaches this level)
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On September 02 2010 07:55 Liquid`Tyler wrote:
As far as I know, sc2ranks is pretty damn comprehensive of Diamond, especially high Diamond (where it seems some people have a problem with the "sample size"). Yeah, the number of people in the 1500+ group is small but that doesn't mean that there is a problem with the sample size. These numbers aren't extrapolated from a small population of the 1500+ Diamond group. These numbers directly represent that group.
This post states perfectly the idea that everyone seems to be missing when complaining about sample size. I hope people read it and attempt to understand it.
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On September 02 2010 08:01 Liquid`Tyler wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2010 07:59 EliteAzn wrote:
Looking at the data, anything past 1400, the data sample is too small (5z/22t/10p for 1401-1500 and it gets smaller from there). Too small for what?
LOL these posts are too funny,
there is an obvious trend im sure having 1000 extra people in the 1400++ range wouldn't all off a sudden give zerg an upward spike
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Honestly, I hope people don't read too much into these numbers. There can be a lot of factors, and seeing it as a function of time would be important, not just a snapshot.
Everyone is still (as far as I can tell) still evolving strategies, it might be that zerg is harder to master. It is very interesting though, almost reminds me of SC1 with protoss being popular in the D/C range.
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