On September 02 2010 13:40 Xeris wrote:We only started getting enough revenue to host the events ourselves without paying in the final two weeks.
I don't get how this makes sense. iNcontrol said Machine did $700 worth of coaching in a 3-week period alone that wasn't paid to him and he also mentioned taking $12 on every $30 of another coach. Then there's also all the money coming in from people who never even got lessons.
What expenses did you have besides website design and bandwidth? I don't understand how the website design + the site's bad hosting could be more expensive than that income.
How can you be taking in all that money and not have a significant surplus?
stuff
Definitely, I'm not trying to use your words to start an argument - even without your testimony, something doesn't add up to me, so I'm just wondering what the explanation is. I'm really curious here.
I just don't get what would make a site like gosucoaching have such high expenses that you have to pay $100 a tourney out of pocket despite a large sum not being paid to Machine and a significant amount of money coming in for coaching. I know webhosting costs and I can't see it being justified based on bandwidth costs, especially for the kind of hosting that crashed like it did. What other expenses does a relatively simple site with bad hosting have?
I'm not sure if I'm at liberty to say, but how it worked was that coaches were paid from Louder's paypal, and the rest was kept for expenses and hosting the events. However, due to the complaints and disputes filed with paypal however, they froze his account and took the money that was in it. Louder didn't pocket anything, even if he had wanted to (he didn't) - paypal gg'd him.
Ah thanks, the paypal freeze explains it. Refunds for the lessons which weren't given makes sense, but I was curious about the missing money from lessons that were.
On September 02 2010 16:18 mnofstl007 wrote: People only paid 30$ for a lesson...what a STEAL... was the lesson 30 mins and a basic tutorial?
Actually it was an hour, with 1 on 1 analysis of your gameplay. The rate gets cheaper if you purchase in bulk (for example purchasing 2 hours up front is less than $30 / hr). When I did it for 2 hours, we worked exclusively on my TvP on Stepps of War. I was shown a couple solid builds for those maps, and practiced them against an AI with the coach observing. He would point out things during the game like "you don't have any SCVs producing, you have an idle worker, buildings aren't hotekeyed, buildings aren't rallied", things like that. I normally average around 40 APM and I thought I just need more practice to make my fingers faster. When I was doing everything the coach was telling me, while watching the replay I was at 80 consistently. That alone was a huge eye opener. It felt really intense while I was doing all this multitasking too.
After I practiced those builds a couple time against AIs, I played 2 matches against the coach, where he doesn't hold anything back and you try to use the builds just learned against him. First time I got stomped, second time I did fairly well and only lost in the macro game. I feel much more confident about my TvP after that session, especially on that map. Afterwords I fired up a custom game with a friend of mine who completely stomps me every single time I've ever played him, and I beat the shit out of him, hands down. It's well worth the money, I'm not gonna lie. Some people can't understand why you'd spend money on a game, but I was sold even before I bought the lesson, and even moreso after.
Sorry, but do you really need to pay money for this. There's alot of tutorials on the internet, starting from Day9 and ending with commentators like Husky and HD. Trump for example explains how to review your replays here: . As for build orders just check out Liquidpedia and try out things that feel comfortable with you.
Lol. The point here is that people were not looking for 'tutorials', they were paying for private lessons. There is a big difference from sitting down and watching day9 daily and sitting down with someone like day9 and having 2 hours of private lessons where all your questions are answered and all their attention is devoted to your personal improvement.
It would go a lot better for everyone involved if you laid the cards out on the table and explained exactly what happened. This back and forth with hints of what happened but no explanation just makes you guys (Louder in particular) look more shady.
On September 02 2010 16:18 mnofstl007 wrote: People only paid 30$ for a lesson...what a STEAL... was the lesson 30 mins and a basic tutorial?
Actually it was an hour, with 1 on 1 analysis of your gameplay. The rate gets cheaper if you purchase in bulk (for example purchasing 2 hours up front is less than $30 / hr). When I did it for 2 hours, we worked exclusively on my TvP on Stepps of War. I was shown a couple solid builds for those maps, and practiced them against an AI with the coach observing. He would point out things during the game like "you don't have any SCVs producing, you have an idle worker, buildings aren't hotekeyed, buildings aren't rallied", things like that. I normally average around 40 APM and I thought I just need more practice to make my fingers faster. When I was doing everything the coach was telling me, while watching the replay I was at 80 consistently. That alone was a huge eye opener. It felt really intense while I was doing all this multitasking too.
After I practiced those builds a couple time against AIs, I played 2 matches against the coach, where he doesn't hold anything back and you try to use the builds just learned against him. First time I got stomped, second time I did fairly well and only lost in the macro game. I feel much more confident about my TvP after that session, especially on that map. Afterwords I fired up a custom game with a friend of mine who completely stomps me every single time I've ever played him, and I beat the shit out of him, hands down. It's well worth the money, I'm not gonna lie. Some people can't understand why you'd spend money on a game, but I was sold even before I bought the lesson, and even moreso after.
Sorry, but do you really need to pay money for this. There's alot of tutorials on the internet, starting from Day9 and ending with commentators like Husky and HD. Trump for example explains how to review your replays here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K6ZfJGXfcAg. As for build orders just check out Liquidpedia and try out things that feel comfortable with you.
why do people keep saying stuff like this, like people just didn't know about replays or commentaries before and this is going to be some earth shattering revelation? If you can't see how one-on-one private coaching is light years more effective than watching replays and reading online strategies, then there's something wrong with you.
I still think the concept of getting instruction from pros is absolutely brilliant, and I also think the rates are great.
How much do you think it'd cost to get an hour of batting practice from Barry Bonds? How about an hour on the mat with Randy Couture? Or working on your swing for an hour with Tiger Woods?
I really hope to see a new GosuCoaching soon, as it's something I wanted to invest in before, but didn't because, frankly, it seemed disorganized, and asking for cash up front was sketchy to me.
On September 03 2010 01:45 MrBitter wrote: I still think the concept of getting instruction from pros is absolutely brilliant, and I also think the rates are great.
How much do you think it'd cost to get an hour of batting practice from Barry Bonds? How about an hour on the mat with Randy Couture? Or working on your swing for an hour with Tiger Woods?
I really hope to see a new GosuCoaching soon, as it's something I wanted to invest in before, but didn't because, frankly, it seemed disorganized, and asking for cash up front was sketchy to me.
On September 03 2010 01:30 Dragonsven wrote: It would go a lot better for everyone involved if you laid the cards out on the table and explained exactly what happened. This back and forth with hints of what happened but no explanation just makes you guys (Louder in particular) look more shady.
On September 03 2010 01:30 Dragonsven wrote: It would go a lot better for everyone involved if you laid the cards out on the table and explained exactly what happened. This back and forth with hints of what happened but no explanation just makes you guys (Louder in particular) look more shady.
Read my post.
I did, it doesn't explain much. Specifically why coaches aren't being paid and where all this extra money was disappearing to. You can say you couldn't afford things but unelss you say where that money was going then it doesn't mean anything.
On September 03 2010 01:30 Dragonsven wrote: It would go a lot better for everyone involved if you laid the cards out on the table and explained exactly what happened. This back and forth with hints of what happened but no explanation just makes you guys (Louder in particular) look more shady.
Read my post.
I did, it doesn't explain much. Specifically why coaches aren't being paid and where all this extra money was disappearing to. You can say you couldn't afford things but unelss you say where that money was going then it doesn't mean anything.
I think they aren't being paid because Louder's paypal account got frozen.
On September 03 2010 01:30 Dragonsven wrote: It would go a lot better for everyone involved if you laid the cards out on the table and explained exactly what happened. This back and forth with hints of what happened but no explanation just makes you guys (Louder in particular) look more shady.
Read my post.
I did, it doesn't explain much. Specifically why coaches aren't being paid and where all this extra money was disappearing to. You can say you couldn't afford things but unelss you say where that money was going then it doesn't mean anything.
You have a Paypal Account, which you pay your employees out of.
You tell your customer base to file claims against your account to get their money back because its easier than addressing everyone individually.
Paypal freezes the account due to a claim filing, you can't access it to pay your employees.
Where was your business model in all of this? First off, the website needs to be more organized. Secondly, your "partners" aka your trainers and staff all need to be on the same page. You need set times for organized meetings, as well as specific SET weekly schedules. It needs to be like a doctors office, not on a "we'll come this time blah blah blah" Thirdly, finances need to be kept perfectly. I suggest using a basic program like microsoft excel to organize your appropriate finances. For example, Each row is your partners...With their X amount of hours at X pay totalling to X dollars subtracting 10-15% which turns over your total amount per person per week. In the columns, simply add up your total per person to your overall total. Then subtract all business expenses (website cost, profit toward improvement/backup funds) That's a simple model of course, but it's a jist of what needed to be done Next, you need more organization in how to contact and be contacted. A phone number would be perfect...Just a simple "google voice" account can suffice for this mission. Link the account to all your staff. This way you will all be able to tell who called and what not. Also, set up another spreadsheet which lists the schedules. Keep the schedules SET. If there is a cancellation, or an issue/no show you charge them. Much like a doctors office would charge you for a no-show without a call. Always inform your clients the day before via cell about their scheduled practice...
Sounds like you guys got wayyyyy ahead of yourselves without thinking this through.
I don't know InControl or Louder at all, and I have no positive bias for them. Just based on the fact that Louder is being transparent about what's going on and assuring to pay everyone back, though, I'm pretty confident there was no ill-intent.
They messed up. There's no reason to hate on them. Really. Someone might be out 60 bucks temporarily. Oh noes.
On September 03 2010 02:46 Buddhist wrote: I don't know InControl or Louder at all, and I have no positive bias for them. Just based on the fact that Louder is being transparent about what's going on and assuring to pay everyone back, though, I'm pretty confident there was no ill-intent.
They messed up. There's no reason to hate on them. Really. Someone might be out 60 bucks temporarily. Oh noes.
Have some empathy, imo.
Thing is all this "transparency" comes after Incontrol posted what was going on. Louder was going to "announce" this days before and kept putting it off. I came into this clusterfuck without bias towards either party, but it's becoming clear that something shady was going on, and I'm glad Inc got out before the shit hit the fan.
P-p-p-ponzi scheme p-p-ponzi scheme. (alright, maybe not that extreme, but still)
You need to have a compete and organized schedule, if you plan to do something like this. All transactions need to be handled with an e-mail. You need to have an email all staff can access, so that everyone can just check the e-mails, and respond as soon as possible. I think you underestimated the amount of work that needed to go into it, and that's brought you into this situation. I respect GosuCoaching, and I see no fault in them. It was all just a huge mistake. Even if I haven't paid for a lesson (As I see no real point for me to do so) I trust that they had a system, that was working well in the beginning stages, but was beginning to fail, when it got bigger. The thing is, is that, it is really hard to have an online business, the person who is selling it wants to see the cash in their paypal account first, and the person buying it, wants to have the product first. It's a huge deal. Maybe this would have gone better if you had say, a center somewhere in California, where someone would visit, pay for a lesson, or book a time for one, then once it is time for the lesson, the lesson goes on, and the person pays, although this is kind of weird, because of the fact that it's for a video game, and all that.
That should still be the system though. Book a time, have them respond with an e-mail, then pay them, then have the lesson, that was how it should be going. As far as I know the way GosuCoaching went about it was. The person books a time, and pays for lesson, Gosucoaching responds with e-mail, lesson happens. That works, but when there is so many people it begins to fail. Hopefully this can be resolved soon. Good luck guys!
I just feel sorry for the poor noobs you took money from.
User was warned for this post
With all due respect of course, maybe my choice of "took" was wrong, obviously the consumers gave them their money voluntarily. I'm blanking on what it is called when someone asks a consumer for money for services, but they don't have a means or the resources to fulfill that service. Lying? Cheating? Scamming?
EPT
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