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On September 03 2010 01:45 MrBitter wrote:
I still think the concept of getting instruction from pros is absolutely brilliant, and I also think the rates are great.
How much do you think it'd cost to get an hour of batting practice from Barry Bonds? How about an hour on the mat with Randy Couture? Or working on your swing for an hour with Tiger Woods?
I really hope to see a new GosuCoaching soon, as it's something I wanted to invest in before, but didn't because, frankly, it seemed disorganized, and asking for cash up front was sketchy to me.
I doubt much of that stuff would help very much. Most sports are based on repetition, consistent practice, muscle memory, etc. An hour with somebody very good at a sport would hardly do you anything, not to mention they might be really awful teachers.
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On September 03 2010 02:08 Dragonsven wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2010 01:59 Xeris wrote:On September 03 2010 01:30 Dragonsven wrote:
It would go a lot better for everyone involved if you laid the cards out on the table and explained exactly what happened. This back and forth with hints of what happened but no explanation just makes you guys (Louder in particular) look more shady. Read my post. I did, it doesn't explain much. Specifically why coaches aren't being paid and where all this extra money was disappearing to. You can say you couldn't afford things but unelss you say where that money was going then it doesn't mean anything.
I actually explained it. Paypal froze the account which means they took the money that was in it.
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On September 03 2010 04:13 PROJECTILE wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2010 01:45 MrBitter wrote:
I still think the concept of getting instruction from pros is absolutely brilliant, and I also think the rates are great.
How much do you think it'd cost to get an hour of batting practice from Barry Bonds? How about an hour on the mat with Randy Couture? Or working on your swing for an hour with Tiger Woods?
I really hope to see a new GosuCoaching soon, as it's something I wanted to invest in before, but didn't because, frankly, it seemed disorganized, and asking for cash up front was sketchy to me. I doubt much of that stuff would help very much. Most sports are based on repetition, consistent practice, muscle memory, etc. An hour with somebody very good at a sport would hardly do you anything, not to mention they might be really awful teachers.
An hour/few hours with a professional can give a bloody lot. This is from personal experience. Assuming he's a good teacher, of course.Saying it won't help very much is bullshitting.
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On September 03 2010 04:13 PROJECTILE wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2010 01:45 MrBitter wrote:
I still think the concept of getting instruction from pros is absolutely brilliant, and I also think the rates are great.
How much do you think it'd cost to get an hour of batting practice from Barry Bonds? How about an hour on the mat with Randy Couture? Or working on your swing for an hour with Tiger Woods?
I really hope to see a new GosuCoaching soon, as it's something I wanted to invest in before, but didn't because, frankly, it seemed disorganized, and asking for cash up front was sketchy to me. I doubt much of that stuff would help very much. Most sports are based on repetition, consistent practice, muscle memory, etc. An hour with somebody very good at a sport would hardly do you anything, not to mention they might be really awful teachers.
The only problem with this rationale is that it's complete speculation. On the other hand, people who have actually done it have had nothing but good things to say, and claim that they have learned a lot. I don't see what there is left to discuss.
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On September 03 2010 04:13 PROJECTILE wrote:
I doubt much of that stuff would help very much. Most sports are based on repetition, consistent practice, muscle memory, etc. An hour with somebody very good at a sport would hardly do you anything, not to mention they might be really awful teachers.
I suppose sports team coaches should be fired then, no? School teachers? Drivers Ed teachers? How about conferences for learning new technologies?
Sports are based on two things, repetition and COACHING. Someone there to watch your practice/play and analyze it, so that you have a clearer understanding of what you can do better. That is what these people and others do - they analyze your play and provide very constructive feedback on how to get better.
Why it works is because they approach it the same as a sports coach or a teacher - to educate the student. One thing to note with this - many sports coaches were never actual players, pro or otherwise. Belichick as an example, has never played a game of football in his life (that I have found in research) - but he has been coaching for his entire career. Being a pro gamer does not make one the best teacher, but NOT being a pro gamer does not discount one from being a great coach either.
They had issues with scheduling - it happens to every business based on schedules, just not on as large a scale as often. How many times have you been to a doctors office and gone in to see the doctor at anywhere close to the scheduled appointment time? How about calling a cab, or a limo? A barber/hairstylist appointment? For us girls, nail appointments? All of them are prone to scheduling issues, conflicts, and events. The concern is how they are handled pre- and post- issue.
I believe this will hurt GosuCoaching, iNcontroL, and Louder more than the other coaches because of the drama in the two threads, but coaching as a whole should be largely unaffected, and rightly so. How iNcontroL and Louder act and react from here out will determine how badly this event will affect them.
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On September 03 2010 04:15 Xeris wrote:Show nested quote +On September 03 2010 02:08 Dragonsven wrote:On September 03 2010 01:59 Xeris wrote:On September 03 2010 01:30 Dragonsven wrote:
It would go a lot better for everyone involved if you laid the cards out on the table and explained exactly what happened. This back and forth with hints of what happened but no explanation just makes you guys (Louder in particular) look more shady. Read my post. I did, it doesn't explain much. Specifically why coaches aren't being paid and where all this extra money was disappearing to. You can say you couldn't afford things but unelss you say where that money was going then it doesn't mean anything. I actually explained it. Paypal froze the account which means they took the money that was in it.
As far as account freezing goes why did it happen? Because multiple people filed disputes? Where these disputes older than 60 days where you can't give refunds? Any disputes under 60 days means you have a direct link to a refund button - this overrides any and all frozen/locked accounts and allows for the user to refund a customer.
When an account is frozen/locked there are different levels of this. All of the levels make it so the user cannot make any withdrawals until the business (in this case) is verified to be a legit business, and many of the levels are set up so the user also cannot receive funds. I have someone that works in the account management/limitations department and I can see what I can do to help you guys out if you want.
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Paypal can "take money"? Isn't that illegal. I know they do stuff like freezing a account but to just go and take out all your money?
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On September 03 2010 05:50 CagedMind wrote:
Paypal can "take money"? Isn't that illegal. I know they do stuff like freezing a account but to just go and take out all your money?
Actually taking the money as profit for themselves is illegal, yes. I would assume what Xeris is trying to say is that after they froze the account they have put the funds in a safe account while PayPal sorts out who paid what and how much so that PayPal can themselves refund the customers that require refunds. This means that GC.com will never actually see those funds again but the customers will get their money back from PayPal directly.
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Calgary25998 Posts
I assume Xeris is talking second hand.
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On September 02 2010 00:21 Louder wrote:
For students on the list of those who have paid but never got scheduled - please file a dispute, with your details, through PayPal. I realize it would be far more courteous and professional to gather those details and contact people individually, but along the lines of the scheduling work and other mentioned above - I simply do not have the time.
Hmm wonder why the PayPal is locked? Louder is too busy to issue refunds so he'll let PayPal clean up after his mess - also provides a convenient reason for not paying coaches?
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On September 03 2010 05:57 commander_uk wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2010 00:21 Louder wrote:
For students on the list of those who have paid but never got scheduled - please file a dispute, with your details, through PayPal. I realize it would be far more courteous and professional to gather those details and contact people individually, but along the lines of the scheduling work and other mentioned above - I simply do not have the time. Hmm wonder why the PayPal is locked? Louder is too busy to issue refunds so he'll let PayPal clean up after his mess - also provides a convenient reason for not paying coaches?
How is it convenient? It is what it is. It's already obvious why the paypal is locked. When that many people complain about lost services paypal is going to lock your account, you can't access the funds anymore.
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On September 03 2010 05:57 commander_uk wrote:Show nested quote +On September 02 2010 00:21 Louder wrote:
For students on the list of those who have paid but never got scheduled - please file a dispute, with your details, through PayPal. I realize it would be far more courteous and professional to gather those details and contact people individually, but along the lines of the scheduling work and other mentioned above - I simply do not have the time. Hmm wonder why the PayPal is locked? Louder is too busy to issue refunds so he'll let PayPal clean up after his mess - also provides a convenient reason for not paying coaches?
A PayPal account will get locked if a large amount of disputes are filed against the account owner. This means that even if Louder had the time to personally address each customer with either a refund or a hold on the payment until the scheduling is fixed, there's nothing he can do about it without first getting in contact with a PayPal Account Limitations representative. Even then, the process would go like this:
We'll call PayPal Account Limitations "AL" for short.
1. Louder would have to tell AL what payments need refunding / holding.
2. AL would take 3 full business day to check the customers and amounts to confirm that it is what Louder says it is (AL has to check with a higher up in the Account Limitations Department).
3. AL would call back the next day to re-confirm the payments.
4. The refunds / holdings would be made.
Since (I'm guessing because they are saying their account is frozen) multiple people have filed disputes Louder cannot do a single thing with his PayPal account without getting permission from AL.
As far as paying the coaches, until the whole business is verified to be legit (this takes forever because of the speed at which PayPal works) he will not be able to take out a single cent from the account.
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PayPal suspended us because we had a lot of disputes filed in a small period of time when people were paying but scheduling wasn't happening (while I was moving). But that's not really something I feel compelled to go into. I was a little ignorant about some of PayPal's finer points obviously. I learned after this that it's not wise to keep all our cash in there!
Let me clear the air right now. As I've posted before, the coaches are getting paid. There will be a few cases where I won't be paying them directly they'll have to work it out with students who have been refunded in full (for example, they paid $200 for 8 hours but only used 2, then got a full refund). That's all I'm saying about that.
As for Machine, he's done plenty of coaching for sure. Someone was going around at MLG saying I (gosucoaching) owed him over $1,000. Machine's pay isn't public information, nor is his lesson volume. Coaches will be paid, Machine included. What Incontrol or any other speculator says about it is irrelevant.
As for "taking money from coaches", let me be clear. This is a business. Coaches were paid for work they did for gosucoaching. Students paid us, we paid the coaches an agreed upon rate. It's not the public's business, nor any individual coaches' business, what everyone made. I don't owe anyone other than each individual coach an explanation as to what I am willing to pay them. If the lesson market supported $100/hr but people would work for $15/hr, then I'd have been considered very generous to pay them $50/hr (50%). As it was, the original coaches were all being paid at 85% of the lesson cost, which is generous to the point of being business suicide 
This is a difficult situation for a number of reasons, one of which being that this community in general expects an unrealistically high degree of openness and detail from private persons and organizations. I've been as open as possible, and I will continue to do so - but just accept that some information is private and will remain so. It's in no one's interest for me to argue with every troll who jumps into the debate pretending to know what's what. It's also in no one's interest to assume anything more than differences of opinion and communication breakdown are at play with myself and Incontrol, regardless of how it's being portrayed. It's not unusual at all for people to part ways in business, and messily. I'll leave it at that.
The fact that our approach didn't work out and we have damage control to do is what it is, and I'll see to it everyone is paid what they are owed, and that's that. And of course, we're not going anywhere, just making changes
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Louder, any chance I can help out with this stuff? I have good experience in all of these areas and I can definitely help the relaunch.
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On September 03 2010 07:12 kOre wrote:
Louder, any chance I can help out with this stuff? I have good experience in all of these areas and I can definitely help the relaunch.
I'll certainly keep you in mind Thanks
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EPT
