• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 10:30
CEST 16:30
KST 23:30
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
Power Rank - Esports World Cup 202559RSL Season 1 - Final Week9[ASL19] Finals Recap: Standing Tall15HomeStory Cup 27 - Info & Preview18Classic wins Code S Season 2 (2025)16
Community News
BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams10Weekly Cups (July 14-20): Final Check-up0Esports World Cup 2025 - Brackets Revealed19Weekly Cups (July 7-13): Classic continues to roll8Team TLMC #5 - Submission re-extension4
StarCraft 2
General
The GOAT ranking of GOAT rankings Power Rank - Esports World Cup 2025 What tournaments are world championships? RSL Revival patreon money discussion thread Jim claims he and Firefly were involved in match-fixing
Tourneys
Esports World Cup 2025 Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament FEL Cracov 2025 (July 27) - $8000 live event Master Swan Open (Global Bronze-Master 2) Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond)
Strategy
How did i lose this ZvP, whats the proper response
Custom Maps
External Content
Mutation #239 Bad Weather Mutation # 483 Kill Bot Wars Mutation # 482 Wheel of Misfortune Mutation # 481 Fear and Lava
Brood War
General
BW General Discussion Dewalt's Show Matches in China [Update] ShieldBattery: 2025 Redesign Ginuda's JaeDong Interview Series BSL Team Wars - Bonyth, Dewalt, Hawk & Sziky teams
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues CSL Xiamen International Invitational [CSLPRO] It's CSLAN Season! - Last Chance [BSL 2v2] ProLeague Season 3 - Friday 21:00 CET
Strategy
Does 1 second matter in StarCraft? [G] Mineral Boosting Simple Questions, Simple Answers
Other Games
General Games
Stormgate/Frost Giant Megathread Nintendo Switch Thread [MMORPG] Tree of Savior (Successor of Ragnarok) Path of Exile CCLP - Command & Conquer League Project
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
Heroes of the Storm
Simple Questions, Simple Answers Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Heroes of StarCraft mini-set
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Community Thread Vanilla Mini Mafia
Community
General
Russo-Ukrainian War Thread US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Post Pic of your Favorite Food! The Games Industry And ATVI
Fan Clubs
SKT1 Classic Fan Club!
Media & Entertainment
[\m/] Heavy Metal Thread Anime Discussion Thread Movie Discussion! [Manga] One Piece Korean Music Discussion
Sports
Formula 1 Discussion 2024 - 2025 Football Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 NBA General Discussion
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Installation of Windows 10 suck at "just a moment" Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List
Blogs
Ping To Win? Pings And Their…
TrAiDoS
momentary artworks from des…
tankgirl
from making sc maps to makin…
Husyelt
StarCraft improvement
iopq
Socialism Anyone?
GreenHorizons
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 1048 users

Do top level players use grid hotkeys?

Forum Index > SC2 General
Post a Reply
Normal
Domo230
Profile Joined August 2010
Ireland11 Posts
August 31 2010 21:41 GMT
#1

Im wondering what the standard hot keys used by high level players are. I havnt played enough that either standard or grid are heavily ingrained into my muscle memory so I want to focus on the more efficient one.
Grummler
Profile Joined May 2010
Germany743 Posts
August 31 2010 21:43 GMT
#2
TLO uses grid. And you could grab some pro replays and check where they have their controlgroups. Everyone using 1-5 for important stuff will most likely use grid.
workers, supply, money, workers, supply, money, workers, ...
crimsonsentinel
Profile Joined April 2010
United States179 Posts
August 31 2010 21:44 GMT
#3
A lot of the old BW players probably use standard because it's more similar to the old BW style and it's what they're used to. Don't take that as an example of what you should do; just do whatever feels best for you.
synapse
Profile Blog Joined January 2009
China13814 Posts
August 31 2010 21:45 GMT
#4
Whatever you are more used to is what is most efficient for you. I don't think very many high level players use grid hotkeys, and even if many do, it's a choice that will negligibly affect your gameplay.
:)
Rah
Profile Joined February 2010
United States973 Posts
August 31 2010 21:45 GMT
#5
I heard somewhere that TLO does. It was pretty popular among good wc3 players too I think, so a portion of those guys who've switched over do too probably.
Streaming on twitch. http://www.twitch.tv/rahsun86
Nexic
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States729 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-31 21:47:50
August 31 2010 21:47 GMT
#6
Who cares what other people use? Use what's more comfortable for you. Standard has no advantages over grid other than attack move being T, which you can change with an mpq edit anyway. People just use what they are used to or more comfortable with.
PaprikaSpice
Profile Joined August 2010
United States41 Posts
August 31 2010 21:47 GMT
#7
Everyone using 1-5 for important stuff will most likely use grid.


Oh weird! I use grid and 1-5 are where my important things there.

I use grid because it's what I'm used to from commanding in NS. It's also just easier to get into, since I don't need to remember a zillion specific hotkeys - if I can't remember what something is, I can glance at its position without mousing over and I know what key it is.
Paprika.295 on b-net!
Whiplash
Profile Blog Joined October 2008
United States2928 Posts
August 31 2010 21:47 GMT
#8
I want custom hotkeys, I have no clue why blizzard still hasn't implemented them.
Cinematographer / Steadicam Operator. Former Starcraft commentator/player
Patriot.dlk
Profile Blog Joined October 2004
Sweden5462 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-31 21:48:26
August 31 2010 21:48 GMT
#9
Sorry for being uninformed I'm just clueless about sc2 still even though i've played well over 100 games :p but what is grid hotkeys?
PietjeP89
Profile Joined April 2010
Belgium83 Posts
August 31 2010 21:50 GMT
#10
On September 01 2010 06:48 Patriot.dlk wrote:
Sorry for being uninformed I'm just clueless about sc2 still even though i've played well over 100 games :p but what is grid hotkeys?


I was about to ask the same so no shame
mahrgell
Profile Blog Joined December 2009
Germany3943 Posts
August 31 2010 21:51 GMT
#11
all hotkeys arranged on the keys qwert asdfg zxcvb as they appear in the buttonbox in the lower right of your screen
backtoback
Profile Joined March 2010
Canada1276 Posts
August 31 2010 21:56 GMT
#12
is it a program or sc2 has it built in?
Nexic
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States729 Posts
August 31 2010 21:57 GMT
#13
grid hot key illustration

[image loading]
Onioncookie
Profile Joined May 2010
Germany624 Posts
August 31 2010 21:58 GMT
#14
On September 01 2010 06:57 Nexic wrote:
grid hot key illustration

[image loading]



Wasnt it called qwert system?!
Grummler
Profile Joined May 2010
Germany743 Posts
August 31 2010 21:58 GMT
#15
On September 01 2010 06:56 backtoback wrote:
is it a program or sc2 has it built in?


Built in. Just check the gameplay options. There are standard, classic, grid. Someof them also for lefties (standard and grid i think, but not sure).
workers, supply, money, workers, supply, money, workers, ...
Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo
Profile Joined March 2010
Germany2959 Posts
August 31 2010 22:01 GMT
#16
Custom keys all the way.
I bet if it was better supported much more top players would use custom keys as well.

I for example see no point in using my pinky to press "Y" ("Z" in English layout) in order to activate most abilities. I need my pinky for shift and other stuff anyways.

I got most of my hotkeys set to "D", "F", "E" and "R". Some to "X", "T", "G" and "A" for attack, "Q" for hold position and "W" for move.

Works just awesome :o
WrathBringerReturns said: No no no. Sarcasm is detected in the voice. When this forum is riddled with stupidity, you think I can tell every post apart? Fair enough it was intended sarcastically, was it obvious? Of course not.
Domo230
Profile Joined August 2010
Ireland11 Posts
August 31 2010 22:01 GMT
#17
On September 01 2010 06:58 Onioncookie wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 01 2010 06:57 Nexic wrote:
grid hot key illustration

[image loading]



Wasnt it called qwert system?!

Was just about to post that. The thing is I can use either one alright so Im trying to find if their was a general consensus as to which was better.
Lysithea
Profile Joined February 2008
Sweden204 Posts
August 31 2010 22:02 GMT
#18
"terran is op! they're just a a-move race!"

"repair isnt op wtf?!"

User was warned for this post
"Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee." - Muhammad Ali
Grummler
Profile Joined May 2010
Germany743 Posts
August 31 2010 22:11 GMT
#19
On September 01 2010 07:01 Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo wrote:
Custom keys all the way.
I bet if it was better supported much more top players would use custom keys as well.


True. But right now custom keys are illegal in most tournaments. Basicly because you need to edit/replace the multiplayer.mpq thingy, which is not allowed.

The GSL Qualifiers for example are played on given computers with preinstalled sc2. I bet if you try to edit the gamefiles with a 3d party program or replace some files with your own from your usb stick, it would be a matter of seconds till someone disqualified you.
workers, supply, money, workers, supply, money, workers, ...
UisTehSux
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
United States693 Posts
August 31 2010 22:14 GMT
#20
On September 01 2010 07:02 Lysithea wrote:
"terran is op! they're just a a-move race!"

"repair isnt op wtf?!"



What does this have to do with the thread? ._.

But anyways, I use the standard ones. I never even knew you could change them. :S

The Grid set up looks weird.
I underestimated that boy. No... it was not the boy I underestimated, it was the Triforce of Courage.
Lysithea
Profile Joined February 2008
Sweden204 Posts
August 31 2010 22:16 GMT
#21
On September 01 2010 07:14 UisTehSux wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 01 2010 07:02 Lysithea wrote:
"terran is op! they're just a a-move race!"

"repair isnt op wtf?!"



What does this have to do with the thread? ._.

But anyways, I use the standard ones. I never even knew you could change them. :S

The Grid set up looks weird.


my bad attempt at humor referencing to A being at repair using grid.

nvm me, move along~
"Float like a butterfly, sting like a bee." - Muhammad Ali
Terranist
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States2496 Posts
August 31 2010 22:17 GMT
#22
i can't imagine having to 1t2t3t after many years of 1a2a3a.
The Show of a Lifetime
FindingPride
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States1001 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-31 22:21:49
August 31 2010 22:18 GMT
#23
what is grid and standard? i dont understand
I don't see why anyone would want to use grid. I play fine at high lvl with no issues. using the standard..
Domo230
Profile Joined August 2010
Ireland11 Posts
August 31 2010 22:26 GMT
#24
On September 01 2010 07:14 UisTehSux wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 01 2010 07:02 Lysithea wrote:
"terran is op! they're just a a-move race!"

"repair isnt op wtf?!"



What does this have to do with the thread? ._.

But anyways, I use the standard ones. I never even knew you could change them. :S

The Grid set up looks weird.

Its a joke based on the grid keys
Nexic
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States729 Posts
August 31 2010 22:29 GMT
#25
On September 01 2010 07:18 FindingPride wrote:
what is grid and standard? i dont understand
I don't see why anyone would want to use grid. I play fine at high lvl with no issues. using the standard..
really you cant see why anyone would use them?

you guys are missing the point. the fact you are used to standard hotkeys does not make them inherently better.

as i said the only disadvantage of grid is T being attack move, which can be changed via a quick mpq edit (do a search for custom hotkeys). everything else is more efficiently located in terms of reach. but it comes down to preference, use what feels comfortable.
figq
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
12519 Posts
August 31 2010 22:35 GMT
#26
On September 01 2010 07:11 Grummler wrote:
right now custom keys are illegal in most tournaments. Basicly because you need to edit/replace the multiplayer.mpq thingy, which is not allowed.
So, grid is allowed though? Because I'm pretty sure in the Korean BW leagues only standard hotkeys were allowed, the same for all.
If you stand next to my head, you can hear the ocean. - Day[9]
Kinch
Profile Joined August 2010
United States258 Posts
August 31 2010 22:47 GMT
#27
Look in the options. Of course grid would be allowed. It's part of the base UI.

T for attack isn't a disadvantage at all. In fact, if you group your units to 4-5-6-7, T is right there. The grid layout's real advantage is that it translates seamlessly to every race, which is probably why TLO was using it.
some_noob
Profile Joined August 2010
160 Posts
August 31 2010 22:47 GMT
#28
On September 01 2010 07:35 figq wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 01 2010 07:11 Grummler wrote:
right now custom keys are illegal in most tournaments. Basicly because you need to edit/replace the multiplayer.mpq thingy, which is not allowed.
So, grid is allowed though? Because I'm pretty sure in the Korean BW leagues only standard hotkeys were allowed, the same for all.


any kind of source on that one ?
Grummler
Profile Joined May 2010
Germany743 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-31 23:19:43
August 31 2010 22:56 GMT
#29
On September 01 2010 07:47 some_noob wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 01 2010 07:35 figq wrote:
On September 01 2010 07:11 Grummler wrote:
right now custom keys are illegal in most tournaments. Basicly because you need to edit/replace the multiplayer.mpq thingy, which is not allowed.
So, grid is allowed though? Because I'm pretty sure in the Korean BW leagues only standard hotkeys were allowed, the same for all.


any kind of source on that one ?


Well, all i can say is that grid, classic, standard and those for lefties are allowed, because they are part of the UI. I dont have a source for this, obviously. I mean, you are also allowed to play with whatever resoultion you like, for the same reason.

Does BW support different hotkeys layouts? I always thought its only one, which would be the reason why only this one is allowed.

Everything needing a third party program is illegal, both in bw and sc2.


Edit: TLO during GSL qualifiers.. Watch his hands, he is using grid, i am 100% sure.
workers, supply, money, workers, supply, money, workers, ...
XiaN
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Germany162 Posts
August 31 2010 23:03 GMT
#30
Edit: TLO during GSL qualifiers.. Watch his hands, he is using grid, i am 100% sure.


TLO def. uses Grid Keys .. he said so in an interview some month ago.
< (。◕‿‿◕。) > | Former technical admin of ROOT-Gaming (root-gaming.com)
PhiliBiRD
Profile Joined November 2009
United States2643 Posts
August 31 2010 23:06 GMT
#31
never even heard of grid system :o

i just play by default setting
nibbles
Profile Blog Joined December 2008
United Kingdom179 Posts
August 31 2010 23:07 GMT
#32
If that's true, it might be because for BW, you'd have to have edited files or have a separate program change your hotkeys, whilst in SC2, grid is already supported in the client/game settings themselves.
meh
Nalta
Profile Joined August 2010
United States44 Posts
August 31 2010 23:13 GMT
#33
im not top level, but i refuse to use grid. I came outta BW with those ridged hotkeys, and it kinda stuck...
i may or may not switch to grid in upcoming time, it seems like it makes everything easier to learn, i mostly play toss and when playing terran i find myself pressing e for a SCV then they could all just be Q
"I have come here to chew bubblegum and kick ass...and I'm all out of bubblegum."
Dog22
Profile Joined April 2010
United States140 Posts
August 31 2010 23:15 GMT
#34
This seems like it would take quite a while to get used to. It's kinda interesting though. I don't think I have the patience to learn hotkeys all over again.

I really want F1-F5 to be hotkeys for selected spots on the map though

If there is already a way to do this someone please let me know!
mOnion
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States5657 Posts
August 31 2010 23:32 GMT
#35
holy moly this is really weird @_@

didnt even know it existed, might have to try it out sometime and see how it feels
☆★☆ 7486!!! Join the Ban mOnion Anti-Trolling Initiative! - Caller | "on a scale of machine to 10, how bad is that Zerg?" - LZgamer | you are the new tl.net bonjwa monion, congrats - Rekrul | "Cheeseburgers dynamite lilacs" - Chill
figq
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
12519 Posts
August 31 2010 23:34 GMT
#36
On September 01 2010 07:47 some_noob wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 01 2010 07:35 figq wrote:
On September 01 2010 07:11 Grummler wrote:
right now custom keys are illegal in most tournaments. Basicly because you need to edit/replace the multiplayer.mpq thingy, which is not allowed.
So, grid is allowed though? Because I'm pretty sure in the Korean BW leagues only standard hotkeys were allowed, the same for all.
any kind of source on that one ?
Tastless (Major BW commentator in Korea): "In case you're wondering it's illegal to change hotkey setups at tournaments so competitive players have to master the standard default hotkeys." (source)
If you stand next to my head, you can hear the ocean. - Day[9]
Wihl
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
Sweden472 Posts
August 31 2010 23:46 GMT
#37
If I had known about it when I started I would probably have used it but now I'm so used to spamming "sdsdsdsd" for drones and such that it would probably be pretty painful to switch.
leviathan20
Profile Joined April 2010
United Kingdom193 Posts
August 31 2010 23:52 GMT
#38
I love using grid hotkeys and switched to them straight away when they got implemented. Probably a throwback from WC3 where they were used pretty heavily.

As for Attack-Move being 'T', just try doing 3t4t5t and see how easy that is ^^ It's way easier for me than pressing 1a2a3a.
"We better get that boy a waffle NOW or he gon' DIE!"
Wargizmo
Profile Joined March 2010
Australia1237 Posts
August 31 2010 23:55 GMT
#39
On September 01 2010 08:34 figq wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 01 2010 07:47 some_noob wrote:
On September 01 2010 07:35 figq wrote:
On September 01 2010 07:11 Grummler wrote:
right now custom keys are illegal in most tournaments. Basicly because you need to edit/replace the multiplayer.mpq thingy, which is not allowed.
So, grid is allowed though? Because I'm pretty sure in the Korean BW leagues only standard hotkeys were allowed, the same for all.
any kind of source on that one ?
Tastless (Major BW commentator in Korea): "In case you're wondering it's illegal to change hotkey setups at tournaments so competitive players have to master the standard default hotkeys." (source)


Most SC2 tournaments stipulate in the rules that only the Blizzard options are legal. I.e. Standard, Grid, Classic, standard for lefties and grid for lefties.
Information is not knowledge. Knowledge is not wisdom. Wisdom is not truth. Truth is not beauty. Beauty is not love. Love is not music. Music is best. - Frank Zappa
Pulimuli
Profile Blog Joined February 2007
Sweden2766 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-31 23:57:22
August 31 2010 23:56 GMT
#40
as a former bw player im using "classic" they're probably not the most optimized hotkeys though

not really sure what the top-ranked players are using, TLO is using grid as some ppl already said
Domo230
Profile Joined August 2010
Ireland11 Posts
September 01 2010 00:22 GMT
#41
I guess it's a question to email someone like day9
zor.au
Profile Joined August 2010
Australia270 Posts
September 01 2010 00:56 GMT
#42
On September 01 2010 08:34 figq wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 01 2010 07:47 some_noob wrote:
On September 01 2010 07:35 figq wrote:
On September 01 2010 07:11 Grummler wrote:
right now custom keys are illegal in most tournaments. Basicly because you need to edit/replace the multiplayer.mpq thingy, which is not allowed.
So, grid is allowed though? Because I'm pretty sure in the Korean BW leagues only standard hotkeys were allowed, the same for all.
any kind of source on that one ?
Tastless (Major BW commentator in Korea): "In case you're wondering it's illegal to change hotkey setups at tournaments so competitive players have to master the standard default hotkeys." (source)


for Starcraft....

This is Starcraft 2. Its actually built into the game.
wow
woolly
Profile Joined May 2010
United States56 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-01 01:03:01
September 01 2010 01:00 GMT
#43
Took me about a week to get use to grid, but there is no way I'd ever go back to standard. It's the new hotness.

My only gripe is when I accidentally build a drone instead of an overlord early game, since Q is select larva as well as build drone. Also with protoss, I believe the warpgate key is Y, but I think you can just rebind your warpgates to 5 or something.
Nightfall.589
Profile Joined August 2010
Canada766 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-12 23:15:29
September 12 2010 23:14 GMT
#44
Am I the only person in the world who thinks that grid hotkeys are a major fail simply because of the unit control keys? Specifically, attack on T? I find that to be the worst key Blizzard could have chosen for such an important function.

I tried out the build order tester a few times, and I found macro to be fantastic with grid - only to get roflstomped in two ladder games because I couldn't do the simplest unit micro.
Proof by Legislation: An entire body of (sort-of) elected officials is more correct than all of the known laws of physics, math and science as a whole. -Scott McIntyre
BuzzJuice
Profile Joined April 2010
United States97 Posts
September 12 2010 23:25 GMT
#45
Oh! I thought grid hotkeys were like using the numpad instead of the standard 1,2,3 that are above your QWERTY keyboard. Works really well if the numpad is to your left though.
Macro and Micro - the only M&M you need to know
debasers
Profile Joined August 2010
737 Posts
September 12 2010 23:38 GMT
#46
On September 13 2010 08:14 Nightfall.589 wrote:
Am I the only person in the world who thinks that grid hotkeys are a major fail simply because of the unit control keys? Specifically, attack on T? I find that to be the worst key Blizzard could have chosen for such an important function.

I tried out the build order tester a few times, and I found macro to be fantastic with grid - only to get roflstomped in two ladder games because I couldn't do the simplest unit micro.


if your units control groups are on 4, 5 and 6 it's pretty nice
DarQraven
Profile Joined January 2010
Netherlands553 Posts
September 12 2010 23:42 GMT
#47
A similar system was used in C&C games (sue me) for a while and I must say it was pretty handy once I got used to it.

However, that's only really if you play Random. Having played Protoss exclusively since launch has taught me all the unit hotkeys perfectly. If I want to build a VoidRay, I select the Stargate and press V (probably followed by 1,C,click for Chronoboost). I can't imagine that adding another step (Stargate selected, Voidray is the second unit so W) is faster once you get used to the regular ones. In fact, I don't think I even consciously think "V" anymore, I just move my fingers the way I know they will build a Voidray (always having Stargates on the same hotkey helps tremendously in this).

I can sort of see the advantage for Terran though. With their confusing-as-hell macro (techlab/reactor/regular, etc) I can see the constant switching between hotkeys as a bit of a nuisance.
Goshawk.
Profile Blog Joined June 2008
United Kingdom5338 Posts
September 12 2010 23:44 GMT
#48
On September 13 2010 08:14 Nightfall.589 wrote:
Am I the only person in the world who thinks that grid hotkeys are a major fail simply because of the unit control keys? Specifically, attack on T? I find that to be the worst key Blizzard could have chosen for such an important function.

I tried out the build order tester a few times, and I found macro to be fantastic with grid - only to get roflstomped in two ladder games because I couldn't do the simplest unit micro.


Well, I guess attack being T truely makes it a grid. >_< You can always change attack from t to a.

Also I found that, having unit abilities on zxc made me angry, so I went back to standard.
Socke
Profile Joined November 2002
Germany451 Posts
September 12 2010 23:46 GMT
#49
i know now, that neither demuslim, hasu, ret or me use grid
Phaded
Profile Joined August 2010
Australia579 Posts
September 13 2010 00:00 GMT
#50
My brain makes the logical connection between ability/unit names on the standard hotkeys a lot better than grid.

(B)uild a (G)ateway means my thought process clicks over faster than (Z) Build the building at position 2,2 (S) or whatever the corresponding Grid system is.


I am down but I am far from over
Subversion
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
South Africa3627 Posts
September 13 2010 00:10 GMT
#51
grid looks kinda cool, but no ways im switching now and re-learning. this will totally ruin my epic 1a
drsnuggles
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
Korea (South)362 Posts
September 13 2010 00:46 GMT
#52
well as a random player, who played DotA before (where grid was really popular) i like to use the grid system. as for the problems with attack move, if you bind your units to 3/4/5/6 its actually very easy to attack move (as already mentioned)
xiyuema
Profile Joined August 2009
87 Posts
September 13 2010 00:53 GMT
#53
oh man that would be so awkward to use lol
Far out GG
Pistolfied
Profile Joined June 2010
Canada79 Posts
September 13 2010 00:56 GMT
#54
I don't understand how people can use grid. I play random and it's pretty easy to use all of the hotkeys since most of them make logical sense. Grid just makes no sense at all and you have to spend time looking at where the buttons are...
Stop saying anywayS, it's anyway, not anyway>>S<<. Anyways is not a word!!!
Nebo
Profile Joined May 2010
United States44 Posts
September 13 2010 00:59 GMT
#55
I say its more preference I casually played BW and never bothered to learn the hotkeys so learning grid was a lot easier to pick up than standard or classic.
Allelujah
Profile Joined September 2010
8 Posts
September 13 2010 01:12 GMT
#56
I use grid for lefties and whenever I press the '/' key it closes my chat line. So I can't type a '?'
Anybody know a way around this?
Gnax
Profile Joined June 2010
Sweden490 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-13 01:19:13
September 13 2010 01:16 GMT
#57
I'm an ex WC3 player who used grid in WC3 so I didn't even try the standard set up. Can't imagine any set up being better than grid since you don't have to remember hotkeys at all you can just look at the screen at what you wanna do and press the right key.

Also all of the keys are placed on the left side of the keyboard where you will use your left hand when you're normally typing, it makes no sense to use your left hand to press the keys on the right side of the keyboard. I dunno, but I'm assuming some of them are located there with the standard set up, correct me if I'm wrong.

And for people who are having problems with "T" being attack move, I have no idea why that would be a problem at all. Pressing 1T, 2T, 3T is not harder than pressing 1A, 2A, 3A. I actually find it harder to press 1A than 1T since I have to use the same finger? -_-;;

EDIT: Forgot to mention also that the hotkeys are pretty much the exact same for every race if you happen to be a random player. Making a worker is always Q, rax/gw is the same, pylon/supply same etc.
N3rV[Green]
Profile Blog Joined August 2009
United States1935 Posts
September 13 2010 01:18 GMT
#58
attack move is on T, therefore it is impossible to play this way.

I seriously dont even understand why people would want to change the hotkey setup....maybe its just me but if I do something 2 or three times its stuck up there in the brain area, and I dont need to "remember" that the key for zealot is fucking "z" >.<

silly noobs
Never fear the darkness, Bran. The strongest trees are rooted in the dark places of the earth. Darkness will be your cloak, your shield, your mother's milk. Darkness will make you strong.
Onlinejaguar
Profile Joined April 2010
Australia2823 Posts
September 13 2010 01:24 GMT
#59
Grid works for me. It all comes down to preference.
figq
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
12519 Posts
September 13 2010 01:27 GMT
#60
On September 01 2010 09:56 zor.au wrote:
Show nested quote +
On September 01 2010 08:34 figq wrote:
On September 01 2010 07:47 some_noob wrote:
On September 01 2010 07:35 figq wrote:
On September 01 2010 07:11 Grummler wrote:
right now custom keys are illegal in most tournaments. Basicly because you need to edit/replace the multiplayer.mpq thingy, which is not allowed.
So, grid is allowed though? Because I'm pretty sure in the Korean BW leagues only standard hotkeys were allowed, the same for all.
any kind of source on that one ?
Tastless (Major BW commentator in Korea): "In case you're wondering it's illegal to change hotkey setups at tournaments so competitive players have to master the standard default hotkeys." (source)
for Starcraft....

This is Starcraft 2. Its actually built into the game.
I know it's built into the game (unlike BW), and yet, since the BW leagues insisted on having the same key setup for all progamers, I wonder whether this might not going to become the case for pro-SC2, eventually.

One reason for it - less problems for event organizers with participants having trouble to setup their preferred hotkey configuration before playing. You might ask how could there be any problems with it. Well, running late due to other factors, for example.
If you stand next to my head, you can hear the ocean. - Day[9]
raph
Profile Joined May 2010
United States204 Posts
September 13 2010 01:34 GMT
#61
its all preference, dont get obsessed with what other people use.
Nomak
Profile Joined March 2010
United States32 Posts
September 13 2010 01:49 GMT
#62
I find the Grid Key setup useful for Random play. Rather than D, S, or E to make workers, depending on the race I get, it is always Q. It makes things a little more consistent across my games and I never have to go beyond T or 1-5 for abilities or units.
Calidus
Profile Joined April 2010
150 Posts
September 13 2010 02:03 GMT
#63
I honestly think grid should be standard for new players learning the game, it is much easier to learn grid hotkeys if u are new the sc2 than standard keys.
Note:1100 Diamond take everything with a grain of salt.
TekKpriest
Profile Joined March 2010
308 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-13 02:04:40
September 13 2010 02:04 GMT
#64
Standard Hotkeys for me, Grid feels totally uncomfortable.

But tell me why did the op asked for this? It comes down to personal preference, and as long as you are using the most comfortable setup for you, you will always get better results.
A Man chooses, a slave obeys
-_-
Profile Blog Joined November 2003
United States7081 Posts
September 13 2010 02:12 GMT
#65
As some other people have mentioned, I use grid because I'm using all three races. It would take too long for to become even marginally efficient with each race's hotkeys if I didn't. The grid hotkey setup lets you be somewhat proficient without much work.

However, I'll have to put in some thought as to whether it's the most effective way. But I'll leave the analysis as to what hotkey setup minimizes hand movement until I know the names of every unit.
Nisani201
Profile Joined September 2010
United States1400 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-13 02:21:38
September 13 2010 02:20 GMT
#66
Switching from broodwar to the new standard is worth it... the new one keeps your hand on one side of the keyboard, it's easier to assign shift commands and it makes everything else a lot easier...

The grid system is good if you're using all the races, because it's consistent. I don't like it because it's too much of a change from BW and Standard.
Enjoy your day.
RoarMan
Profile Blog Joined January 2010
Canada745 Posts
September 13 2010 02:58 GMT
#67
On September 13 2010 10:24 Onlinejaguar wrote:
Grid works for me. It all comes down to preference.

Yea, although I'm no Grid man, I do prefer the Standard set up and it really is all preference, I mean I don't do Grid because I'm scared of misclicks and Standard works fine for me.
All the pros got dat Ichie.
Fly[DCT]
Profile Joined September 2010
Canada38 Posts
September 13 2010 03:03 GMT
#68
When I play Warcraft 3 I make sure I can press every hotkey very quickly by concentrating everything on the left side of the keyboard (I essentially only use 1-4, and rarely 5) for hotkeys.

I believe it's quicker this way than moving my left hand trying to find it.
lalalalala
TheToast
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States4808 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-13 04:12:16
September 13 2010 03:44 GMT
#69
Here's my questions about the standard hotkeys:

WHY THE HELL IS THE IMMORTAL ON THE "I" KEY!!!

Seriously when doing a three gate robo I do feel that this lowers my APM by at least a few points. It's redic, only three things come out of the robo bay, why does one of them need to use the "I" key?!!

[/rant]

edit: fixed typo
I like the way the walls go out. Gives you an open feeling. Firefly's a good design. People don't appreciate the substance of things. Objects in space. People miss out on what's solid.
MegaVolt
Profile Joined September 2010
28 Posts
September 13 2010 04:00 GMT
#70
The grid setup is kind of awesome, if only Blizzard had put the attack command in the correct position so that it gets activated by "a".
Using "t" for the a-move is just silly and could easily be fixed.
PTZ.
Profile Joined September 2010
72 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-13 04:04:11
September 13 2010 04:03 GMT
#71
I don't know about pros but after a lot of deliberation (having had used standard since way, way back) I made the painfully-difficult change to Grid and now love it.

edit: and T for attack move is totally fine after you play 15+ games.
Excomm
Profile Blog Joined July 2010
United States152 Posts
September 13 2010 04:05 GMT
#72
Grid is my setup for three reasons.
1. I'm a random player and the grid system is set up intuitively to be similar for all the races (e.g. Q is the button to make a probe, make a scv, and is used both as spawn and spawn drone which is really nice since I can just hold down Q at the beginning when playing zerg)

2. For units I don't use often (and forget the hotkeys for), I can simply stare at the bottom right part of the screen and figure out which hotkey to press and this turns out to be much faster for me than mousing over the unit to find out the hotkey or having to click every time I want to make that unit.

3. Most of the casting abilities that I use the most are set to Z, so I don't need to memorize the casting hotkeys (e.g. stim, blink, force field, auto turret etc. are all Z).
Zlasher
Profile Blog Joined February 2010
United States9129 Posts
September 13 2010 04:08 GMT
#73
I know that I think its either Axslav or Strifecro, use the grid system, and I've heard of a few others who use it out of preference, in the end, like its been said, its personal preference but there are definitely high caliber professional players that use grid
Follow me: www.twitter.com/zlasher
Zarahtra
Profile Joined May 2010
Iceland4053 Posts
September 13 2010 04:14 GMT
#74
I use std at first and switched to grid. Took a bit of time, but for me it feels a lot more natural to have it all at the same place and neatly lined up like on the screen. I atleast have no issues with t being attack move, as I can hit 1t at the same time(and shift even), so my buttons work fine. But yer, do what feels best for you.
(I'd prob not use it mind if I was z due to the select larvae -> make OL)
Kage
Profile Blog Joined May 2007
India788 Posts
September 13 2010 06:16 GMT
#75
How do you put custom keys in Starcraft 2? Someone said edit the MPQ, is that legal? If so can someone link me to how it's done?
Hamlet
Profile Joined May 2010
United States27 Posts
September 13 2010 07:02 GMT
#76
As someone who didn't have extensive BW experience, I found it pretty easy to get into the habit of Grid. Changing UI/input setups comes with a period of discomfort in any game, and I imagine it would be far worse for long-time BW players to move to Grid. But I've recommended Grid to people who are new to SC2--there's no memorization required (which is a big boon to new players when they're trying to drill in the habit to always use hotkeys) and no oddball hotkeys on the opposite side of the keyboard. Ultimately, all that matters is what you're used to. For players very proficient in Standard, there's probably no reason to swap, but I think Grid is a good choice for new learners.

As far as why Immortal is on "I"--I think it's because of Hallucination, actually. Note that all Hallucin-able units are on distinct hotkeys, even when they're out of different buildings (also, the only two hotkey crashes are Carrier/Colossus on C and Probe/Sentry on E, and in either case, only of the pair can be Hallucinated).

Finally, I think custom hotkeys are a slightly tricky proposition. There are a lot of potential conflicts. i.e. nothing can share the universal Warp Gate hotkey, no spell hotkey for any unit can crash with any of the 5 main movement commands, no Terran unit hotkeys can crash with addons/liftoff/land, etc. Not insurmountable by any means, but Blizzard for better or worse likes to have really idiot-proof UI in all their games and this might be hard to make really workable for the "average" (i.e. utterly clueless) user.
Mjade
Profile Joined August 2010
Australia10 Posts
September 13 2010 07:02 GMT
#77
I played around with grid a while back but found the regular layout easier for me to use. Having said that i am greatly disapointed there is no option for custom key bindings. Im always looking for more optimal ways of doing things and find that some custom keybinds are just a little bit uncomfortable for me.

Even went as far as changing my keyboard bindings with program called AutoHotkey, but was more trouble than it was worth and kind of felt like i was cheating =).
Snowfield
Profile Blog Joined April 2010
1289 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-13 07:29:15
September 13 2010 07:28 GMT
#78
The grid kinda seems easier, but i'm too lazy to make the switch as i feel pretty comfy with the current setup as i have played over 1000 games with it.
vek
Profile Joined March 2010
Australia936 Posts
September 13 2010 07:48 GMT
#79
While I'm not exactly a progamer and I don't play SC2 all that much anymore I found the classic layout worked best for me for a couple of reasons:

- Similar to what I was used to in Brood War.
- Keeps your hands used to moving across the keyboard so you can use the 7,8,9,0 control groups (I see a lot of people completely ignore them).

At the end of the day it comes down to what works for you personally.

I would like the option for completely custom keybinds though... It was a pain having to deal with a single keybind for siege/tank mode and the changed mechanics.
Powster
Profile Joined April 2010
United States650 Posts
September 13 2010 08:43 GMT
#80
On September 13 2010 12:44 TheToast wrote:
Here's my questions about the standard hotkeys:

WHY THE HELL IS THE IMMORTAL ON THE "I" KEY!!!

Seriously when doing a three gate robo I do feel that this lowers my APM by at least a few points. It's redic, only three things come out of the robo bay, why does one of them need to use the "I" key?!!

[/rant]

edit: fixed typo


This is my reason for wanting to switch..
waffling1
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
599 Posts
September 13 2010 08:46 GMT
#81
On September 13 2010 13:00 MegaVolt wrote:
The grid setup is kind of awesome, if only Blizzard had put the attack command in the correct position so that it gets activated by "a".
Using "t" for the a-move is just silly and could easily be fixed.


i suppose they wanted to position the attack button central to all the 10 numerc hotkeys.
where is hold, patrol and stop on grid? btw
Hamlet
Profile Joined May 2010
United States27 Posts
September 13 2010 15:32 GMT
#82
They're on E, R, W respectively, matching their positions on the command card on the screen.

T is awkward to get used for attack, but it's all a matter of habit. It becomes second nature eventually just like anything else, but is probably awkward for a while depending on how long you've been playing these games.
Sanguinarius
Profile Joined January 2010
United States3427 Posts
September 13 2010 15:46 GMT
#83
I would love to use grid for units (spell casters). But I want my buildings standard and my A click as A. So I stick with standard.
Your strength is just an accident arising from the weakness of others -Heart of Darkness
onmach
Profile Blog Joined March 2009
United States1241 Posts
September 13 2010 16:47 GMT
#84
I gave grid hotkeys as zerg an honest to god try one day. I made 10 custom games against the ai and macroed up, then I tried to play ladder.

I completely failed for multiple reasons. One I kept missing 9 overlord because q is both select larvae and create drone. This is a serious problem for zerg.

The other problem I had was that I couldn't reliably hit spawn larvae, it is I think x key and I kept hitting creep tumor. It just feels wrong to hit it with anything other than my index finger.

Finally I just gave up. My hotkey setup is completely different with and without grid and my muscle memory is way too ingrained to switch hatches to 1 from 5, and units from 1-3 to 4-6.
Godstorm
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Romania845 Posts
September 13 2010 16:50 GMT
#85
I use standard since i'm used to the bw layout, even when i played war3(loads for like 2 months) i still used the standard layout.
"It's not that he's dumb, he's just neural parasited by a retarded infestor"-Day 9
makoplux
Profile Joined April 2010
88 Posts
September 13 2010 17:06 GMT
#86
On September 01 2010 07:02 Lysithea wrote:
"terran is op! they're just a a-move race!"

"repair isnt op wtf?!"

User was warned for this post


Why on earth does this guy get warned for this post? It was an obvious joke.
who is john galt?
mr_tolkien
Profile Blog Joined June 2010
France8631 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-13 17:16:48
September 13 2010 17:15 GMT
#87
Patrol is so close in grid, I had never really thought about that...

But to my knowledge Patrol is the only shortcut on the right side of the keyboard in standard, right ?
The legend of Darien lives on
Wrongspeedy
Profile Blog Joined August 2010
United States1655 Posts
September 13 2010 18:43 GMT
#88
On September 13 2010 12:44 TheToast wrote:
Here's my questions about the standard hotkeys:

WHY THE HELL IS THE IMMORTAL ON THE "I" KEY!!!

Seriously when doing a three gate robo I do feel that this lowers my APM by at least a few points. It's redic, only three things come out of the robo bay, why does one of them need to use the "I" key?!!

[/rant]

edit: fixed typo


I actually usually have my robo/'s on 7, which is right next to I. So its pretty easy for me :D.
It is better to be a human dissatisfied than a pig satisfied; better to be Socrates dissatisfied than a fool satisfied.- John Stuart Mill
lastreason
Profile Joined May 2010
Romania250 Posts
September 13 2010 19:29 GMT
#89
hm i don't remember ppl crying in bw where they didn't have options, where a probe was made with "p" , or and observator with "o", they jsut got used to it , ah this new generations
Shaozor
Profile Joined August 2010
United States10 Posts
September 13 2010 20:03 GMT
#90
They didn't complain because it has been out for ever. This is a new game and simple features like this should already be fixed. SC2 is a new game.
Lil Sassy
Profile Joined August 2010
United States26 Posts
September 13 2010 21:02 GMT
#91
On September 14 2010 02:15 mr_tolkien wrote:
Patrol is so close in grid, I had never really thought about that...

But to my knowledge Patrol is the only shortcut on the right side of the keyboard in standard, right ?


Immortal is on I
Eat C Erryday
-Archangel-
Profile Joined May 2010
Croatia7457 Posts
September 13 2010 22:00 GMT
#92
I just tried to turn on Grid and nothing happened (hotkeys stayed on standard)?! Anyone had similar problem?
sjschmidt93
Profile Joined April 2010
United States2518 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-09-13 22:06:13
September 13 2010 22:04 GMT
#93
TLO does, most likely because he used to play random, and still does a little bit.

Sometimes I wish I could do custom hotkeys, there are things I will just NEVER use a hotkey, like the immortal... and most upgrades I click.
My grandpa could've proxied better, and not only does he have arthritis, he's also dead. -Sean "Day[9]" Plott
HanSoo
Profile Joined September 2010
United States17 Posts
September 14 2010 04:55 GMT
#94
I see lots of people in this thread denouncing "t" for attack by dismissing it as an absolutely stupid idea not even worth discussion.

This I find a little confusing because I think it's easier push 1t2t3t4t5t than 1a2a3a4a5a specifically because "1a" requires some funky hand placement where as 1-5 + t is completely natural.

I use the standard hotkeys and it's this reason why I use 4-6 for my army, because 4a5a6a is faster than 1a2a3a.

For those of you that use 1a2a3a, how do you go about pushing "1a"? Do you use your ring finger for 1 and pinky for a? Or do you use pinky for both? Something else?
pirsq
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Australia145 Posts
September 14 2010 08:07 GMT
#95
I expect some patch or other will bring customisable keys - it's easy enough to implement, we just need a bunch of very loud whiners to motivate them into doing it.

My biggest complaint about the hotkeys is all the workers being a different button. I've had plenty of games where I've spent the first 5 seconds wondering why my Nexus is refusing to build an SCV. Now I just mash the left side of the keyboard to ensure that I get a worker.
stickman.hqt
Profile Joined May 2010
United States47 Posts
September 14 2010 21:09 GMT
#96
To be quite honest, after trying grid out today, I think I like it better. I used to play bw a lot and also have about 1000 or so games of sc2 using standard, but the grid layout seems a lot easier after a few games. The "T" for attack is actually a lot easier and uses my index finger so its actually faster. I am also a zerg player, so there are a lot of out of the way keys for buildings. Also unit production after a few tries is a lot easier to master when you are making different units after larvae bursts.

Also having hold position very close with the middle finger allows quite a bit easier time microing multiple control groups. Like doing muta micro at the back while assaulting the front with ground etc.

The biggest hotkey change I wish I could change would be Backspace (base locations) so that I can larvae burst even faster. Queen 6-0 doesn't suit me all that well compared to Backspacing.
Scouting is more broken then any strategy.
Vodage
Profile Joined May 2013
United States5 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-05-03 15:05:17
May 03 2014 14:46 GMT
#97
[ Given the choice between creating a new thread, and bumping a 4-year-old one, I think I've made the right call ^_^ ]


I'm a left-handed gamer who uses mouse in right hand; I pay a lot of attention to keybinds and I think I might be onto something here...

[image loading]
( Hmmph. Image isn't loading properly for me. Here is link http://i.imgur.com/Bqmphaz.png )


It's basically centered around the idea of GRID, but extended to include control groups and cameras in a similar, clustered fashion. I call it "Grid Extended".

Anyone who looks at a GRID thread probably already agree that the SC2 default hotkeys leave something to be desired. Though we have come a long way from BW (anyone remember O for Overlord?), Starcraft just doesn't feel as comfortable to play as other games. MMO games commonly require you to bind up the entire keyboard, but global cooldowns keep managing those hotkeys relatively simple, compared to RTS. FPS, on the other hand, is just as fast-paced, but also too simple for players to have to worry about uncomfortable key positions.

I'm not saying I've got the next CORE here, but I think it's a good start.

I'm really low league, so I'd like some higher-level players to take a look at it and tell me if it seems viable. Imo it's an improvement over the "T" attack and "B" cancel of the default GRID. Also if anyone's crazy enough to try it urself, pls tell me what u think! :-D

P.S. The layout is by no means perfect. You'll probably wonder what the hell is going on the first time you build a Thor/Carrier/Battlecruiser with Spacebar. Also my hands are double-jointed. I can reach an octave+1 on a standard piano, so binds like "Shift+M" don't bother me at all. Ymmv.

EDIT: Should also mention that I create cam locations with Shift. Incase it hasn't occured to anybody that using Ctrl instead would force ur hand over 1cm to the left. Also all my control groups create with either Ctrl OR Alt, and shift-to-add, ofc. Chances are, if u've played MMO, u've already considered replacing the SC2 Ctrl modifier with Alt. They're interchangeable rly, unless you Reeeally want a camera on F4 ^_^
I'm in ur base, killen ur doodz
Existor
Profile Joined July 2010
Russian Federation4295 Posts
May 03 2014 15:25 GMT
#98
Using heavily modified Grid.

For example all the core abilities are on Q (since Move command is never used), some of the abilities have alternate F-keys, so I don't need to push my hand to the bottom of keyboard.

Instead of Shift+# I prefer to add units to groups via Alt+#, and it also opens me 2nd keyboard - ALT+Q, ALT+W, etc. It's good especially when your big finger is always on alt button.

All my hatcheries and Queens are on 9 and 0 groups, which are bound to mouse buttons to scrol wheel turn to the left/right.
xuanzue
Profile Joined October 2010
Colombia1747 Posts
May 03 2014 15:33 GMT
#99
On May 04 2014 00:25 Existor wrote:
Using heavily modified Grid.

For example all the core abilities are on Q (since Move command is never used), some of the abilities have alternate F-keys, so I don't need to push my hand to the bottom of keyboard.

Instead of Shift+# I prefer to add units to groups via Alt+#, and it also opens me 2nd keyboard - ALT+Q, ALT+W, etc. It's good especially when your big finger is always on alt button.

All my hatcheries and Queens are on 9 and 0 groups, which are bound to mouse buttons to scrol wheel turn to the left/right.


I use Q like move command, mostly with banelings to avoid any premature detonation.
Dominions 4: "Thrones of Ascension".
t e a C h e r
Profile Joined January 2013
Canada151 Posts
May 03 2014 15:45 GMT
#100
Grid look really confusing, the default keys are the way to go imo, its not hard to remember the hotkeys if you play a lot
@bullscent , twitch: teacherwish
Blargh
Profile Joined September 2010
United States2102 Posts
Last Edited: 2014-05-03 16:55:37
May 03 2014 16:54 GMT
#101
If anyone has an interest in using the grid (q-t ; a-g; z-v) then I recommend rebinding some of the keys. Q, W, E, R, S, D, F are (imo) the most convenient keys and so the most commonly used commands should be on those keys. So, build, attack, and (for zerg) select larvae, should all be in the most convenient location to be pressed often.

The default layout is obviously less efficient, because your hand should never have to wander across the keyboard to letters like U, I, etc. when it could just stay in the left half. Obviously, if you are already heavily accustomed to the original layout (as I am), then it'd be a pain in the ass for at least a week of playing to adjust. It's up to your whether or not it'd be worth the effort.

I believe the reason you wouldn't see many pros using grid is because they have spent (literally) years using a specific layout, and I sort of doubt many of them could ever adjust.
Vodage
Profile Joined May 2013
United States5 Posts
May 04 2014 01:17 GMT
#102
@Blargh: ya I tried to switch the keys around, I had W for worker, D for build basic and A for build advanced, but it always ended up less comfortable. Maybe after getting used to it for a while, it'd be no problem.

Come to think of it (q-t ; a-g; z-v) does sound pretty good, as it moves the important stuff over to the right, so no more constant QAZ pressing. The middle and index fingers are the strongest, so it doesn't make much sense having the main keys under ur ring finger.

T for build worker is a bit far away though. Then again i used to keep all my hatches on 6.

It gets more interesting when u start looking for the most comfortable key combinations, like one after the other?
Like Z-->Q for build base, u gotta tilt ur hand to press those in sequence, idk. So you're saying build base would be V-->T? I guess that's an improvement. At least u can see which way to tilt ur hand ^_^
I'm in ur base, killen ur doodz
Normal
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
OSC
14:00
King of the Hill #219
davetesta9
Liquipedia
Esports World Cup
11:00
2025 - Final Day
Cure vs SolarLIVE!
Serral vs Classic
EWC_Arena18179
ComeBackTV 2882
TaKeTV 782
Hui .649
JimRising 485
3DClanTV 349
Fuzer 254
EnkiAlexander 242
Rex226
CranKy Ducklings125
Reynor124
SpeCial65
LiquipediaDiscussion
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
EWC_Arena18179
Hui .649
JimRising 485
Fuzer 254
Rex 226
Reynor 124
UpATreeSC 99
SpeCial 65
StarCraft: Brood War
Bisu 4401
Horang2 3447
Shuttle 2413
BeSt 1775
EffOrt 932
Larva 918
Mini 619
Barracks 520
actioN 405
Stork 387
[ Show more ]
Soma 355
ggaemo 203
Snow 181
Soulkey 171
TY 127
Rush 110
Hyun 81
JYJ79
Sharp 47
sSak 37
sorry 33
Aegong 27
Shinee 24
Sacsri 22
soO 17
Terrorterran 15
Stormgate
BeoMulf80
Dota 2
Gorgc6234
420jenkins318
XcaliburYe274
XaKoH 167
syndereN146
KheZu123
League of Legends
febbydoto7
Counter-Strike
fl0m2753
sgares231
Other Games
gofns6783
singsing1994
B2W.Neo1564
ScreaM1529
Beastyqt756
djWHEAT140
KnowMe126
ArmadaUGS109
QueenE93
Organizations
StarCraft 2
Blizzard YouTube
StarCraft: Brood War
BSLTrovo
sctven
[ Show 13 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• LaughNgamezSOOP
• Migwel
• sooper7s
StarCraft: Brood War
• Michael_bg 2
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Dota 2
• WagamamaTV494
League of Legends
• Nemesis6206
Upcoming Events
CranKy Ducklings
19h 30m
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
23h 30m
CSO Cup
1d 1h
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
1d 3h
Bonyth vs Sziky
Dewalt vs Hawk
Hawk vs QiaoGege
Sziky vs Dewalt
Mihu vs Bonyth
Zhanhun vs QiaoGege
QiaoGege vs Fengzi
FEL
1d 18h
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
1d 23h
BSL20 Non-Korean Champi…
2 days
Bonyth vs Zhanhun
Dewalt vs Mihu
Hawk vs Sziky
Sziky vs QiaoGege
Mihu vs Hawk
Zhanhun vs Dewalt
Fengzi vs Bonyth
Sparkling Tuna Cup
3 days
Online Event
4 days
uThermal 2v2 Circuit
5 days
[ Show More ]
The PondCast
5 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

CSL Xiamen Invitational
Championship of Russia 2025
Murky Cup #2

Ongoing

Copa Latinoamericana 4
Jiahua Invitational
BSL20 Non-Korean Championship
Esports World Cup 2025
CC Div. A S7
Underdog Cup #2
IEM Cologne 2025
FISSURE Playground #1
BLAST.tv Austin Major 2025
ESL Impact League Season 7
IEM Dallas 2025
PGL Astana 2025
Asian Champions League '25

Upcoming

CSLPRO Last Chance 2025
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #1
ASL Season 20: Qualifier #2
ASL Season 20
CSLPRO Chat StarLAN 3
BSL Season 21
RSL Revival: Season 2
Maestros of the Game
SEL Season 2 Championship
uThermal 2v2 Main Event
FEL Cracov 2025
HCC Europe
ESL Pro League S22
StarSeries Fall 2025
FISSURE Playground #2
BLAST Open Fall 2025
BLAST Open Fall Qual
Esports World Cup 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall 2025
BLAST Bounty Fall Qual
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2025 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.