EPTIm wondering what the standard hot keys used by high level players are. I havnt played enough that either standard or grid are heavily ingrained into my muscle memory so I want to focus on the more efficient one.
Do top level players use grid hotkeys?
| Forum Index > SC2 General |
|
Domo230
Ireland11 Posts
Im wondering what the standard hot keys used by high level players are. I havnt played enough that either standard or grid are heavily ingrained into my muscle memory so I want to focus on the more efficient one. | ||
|
Grummler
Germany743 Posts
| ||
|
crimsonsentinel
United States179 Posts
| ||
|
synapse
China13814 Posts
| ||
|
Rah
United States973 Posts
| ||
|
Nexic
United States729 Posts
| ||
|
PaprikaSpice
United States41 Posts
Everyone using 1-5 for important stuff will most likely use grid. Oh weird! I use grid and 1-5 are where my important things there. I use grid because it's what I'm used to from commanding in NS. It's also just easier to get into, since I don't need to remember a zillion specific hotkeys - if I can't remember what something is, I can glance at its position without mousing over and I know what key it is. | ||
|
Whiplash
United States2928 Posts
| ||
|
Patriot.dlk
Sweden5462 Posts
| ||
|
PietjeP89
Belgium83 Posts
On September 01 2010 06:48 Patriot.dlk wrote: Sorry for being uninformed I'm just clueless about sc2 still even though i've played well over 100 games :p but what is grid hotkeys? I was about to ask the same so no shame  | ||
|
mahrgell
Germany3943 Posts
 | ||
|
backtoback
Canada1276 Posts
| ||
|
Nexic
United States729 Posts
![[image loading]](http://img190.imageshack.us/img190/1595/gridf.jpg) | ||
|
Onioncookie
Germany624 Posts
On September 01 2010 06:57 Nexic wrote: grid hot key illustration Wasnt it called qwert system?! | ||
|
Grummler
Germany743 Posts
On September 01 2010 06:56 backtoback wrote: is it a program or sc2 has it built in? Built in. Just check the gameplay options. There are standard, classic, grid. Someof them also for lefties (standard and grid i think, but not sure). | ||
|
Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo
Germany2959 Posts
I bet if it was better supported much more top players would use custom keys as well. I for example see no point in using my pinky to press "Y" ("Z" in English layout) in order to activate most abilities. I need my pinky for shift and other stuff anyways. I got most of my hotkeys set to "D", "F", "E" and "R". Some to "X", "T", "G" and "A" for attack, "Q" for hold position and "W" for move. Works just awesome :o | ||
|
Domo230
Ireland11 Posts
Was just about to post that. The thing is I can use either one alright so Im trying to find if their was a general consensus as to which was better. | ||
|
Lysithea
Sweden204 Posts
"repair isnt op wtf?!" User was warned for this post | ||
|
Grummler
Germany743 Posts
On September 01 2010 07:01 Na_Dann_Ma_GoGo wrote: Custom keys all the way. I bet if it was better supported much more top players would use custom keys as well. True. But right now custom keys are illegal in most tournaments. Basicly because you need to edit/replace the multiplayer.mpq thingy, which is not allowed. The GSL Qualifiers for example are played on given computers with preinstalled sc2. I bet if you try to edit the gamefiles with a 3d party program or replace some files with your own from your usb stick, it would be a matter of seconds till someone disqualified you. | ||
|
UisTehSux
United States693 Posts
On September 01 2010 07:02 Lysithea wrote: "terran is op! they're just a a-move race!" "repair isnt op wtf?!" What does this have to do with the thread? ._. But anyways, I use the standard ones. I never even knew you could change them. :S The Grid set up looks weird. | ||
|
Lysithea
Sweden204 Posts
On September 01 2010 07:14 UisTehSux wrote: What does this have to do with the thread? ._. But anyways, I use the standard ones. I never even knew you could change them. :S The Grid set up looks weird. my bad attempt at humor referencing to A being at repair using grid. nvm me, move along~ | ||
|
Terranist
United States2496 Posts
| ||
|
FindingPride
United States1001 Posts
I don't see why anyone would want to use grid. I play fine at high lvl with no issues. using the standard.. | ||
|
Domo230
Ireland11 Posts
On September 01 2010 07:14 UisTehSux wrote: What does this have to do with the thread? ._. But anyways, I use the standard ones. I never even knew you could change them. :S The Grid set up looks weird. Its a joke based on the grid keys | ||
|
Nexic
United States729 Posts
On September 01 2010 07:18 FindingPride wrote: really you cant see why anyone would use them?what is grid and standard? i dont understand I don't see why anyone would want to use grid. I play fine at high lvl with no issues. using the standard.. you guys are missing the point. the fact you are used to standard hotkeys does not make them inherently better. as i said the only disadvantage of grid is T being attack move, which can be changed via a quick mpq edit (do a search for custom hotkeys). everything else is more efficiently located in terms of reach. but it comes down to preference, use what feels comfortable. | ||
|
figq
12519 Posts
On September 01 2010 07:11 Grummler wrote: So, grid is allowed though? Because I'm pretty sure in the Korean BW leagues only standard hotkeys were allowed, the same for all.right now custom keys are illegal in most tournaments. Basicly because you need to edit/replace the multiplayer.mpq thingy, which is not allowed. | ||
|
Kinch
United States258 Posts
T for attack isn't a disadvantage at all. In fact, if you group your units to 4-5-6-7, T is right there. The grid layout's real advantage is that it translates seamlessly to every race, which is probably why TLO was using it. | ||
|
some_noob
160 Posts
On September 01 2010 07:35 figq wrote: So, grid is allowed though? Because I'm pretty sure in the Korean BW leagues only standard hotkeys were allowed, the same for all. any kind of source on that one ? | ||
|
Grummler
Germany743 Posts
Well, all i can say is that grid, classic, standard and those for lefties are allowed, because they are part of the UI. I dont have a source for this, obviously. I mean, you are also allowed to play with whatever resoultion you like, for the same reason. Does BW support different hotkeys layouts? I always thought its only one, which would be the reason why only this one is allowed. Everything needing a third party program is illegal, both in bw and sc2. Edit: TLO during GSL qualifiers.. Watch his hands, he is using grid, i am 100% sure. | ||
|
XiaN
Germany162 Posts
Edit: TLO during GSL qualifiers.. Watch his hands, he is using grid, i am 100% sure. TLO def. uses Grid Keys .. he said so in an interview some month ago. | ||
|
PhiliBiRD
United States2643 Posts
i just play by default setting | ||
|
nibbles
United Kingdom179 Posts
| ||
|
Nalta
United States44 Posts
i may or may not switch to grid in upcoming time, it seems like it makes everything easier to learn, i mostly play toss and when playing terran i find myself pressing e for a SCV then they could all just be Q | ||
|
Dog22
United States140 Posts
I really want F1-F5 to be hotkeys for selected spots on the map though  If there is already a way to do this someone please let me know! | ||
|
mOnion
United States5657 Posts
didnt even know it existed, might have to try it out sometime and see how it feels | ||
|
figq
12519 Posts
On September 01 2010 07:47 some_noob wrote: Tastless (Major BW commentator in Korea): "In case you're wondering it's illegal to change hotkey setups at tournaments so competitive players have to master the standard default hotkeys." (source)any kind of source on that one ? | ||
|
Wihl
Sweden472 Posts
| ||
|
leviathan20
United Kingdom193 Posts
As for Attack-Move being 'T', just try doing 3t4t5t and see how easy that is ^^ It's way easier for me than pressing 1a2a3a. | ||
|
Wargizmo
Australia1237 Posts
On September 01 2010 08:34 figq wrote: Tastless (Major BW commentator in Korea): "In case you're wondering it's illegal to change hotkey setups at tournaments so competitive players have to master the standard default hotkeys." (source) Most SC2 tournaments stipulate in the rules that only the Blizzard options are legal. I.e. Standard, Grid, Classic, standard for lefties and grid for lefties. | ||
|
Pulimuli
Sweden2766 Posts
not really sure what the top-ranked players are using, TLO is using grid as some ppl already said | ||
|
Domo230
Ireland11 Posts
| ||
|
zor.au
Australia270 Posts
On September 01 2010 08:34 figq wrote: Tastless (Major BW commentator in Korea): "In case you're wondering it's illegal to change hotkey setups at tournaments so competitive players have to master the standard default hotkeys." (source) for Starcraft.... This is Starcraft 2. Its actually built into the game. | ||
|
woolly
United States56 Posts
My only gripe is when I accidentally build a drone instead of an overlord early game, since Q is select larva as well as build drone. Also with protoss, I believe the warpgate key is Y, but I think you can just rebind your warpgates to 5 or something. | ||
|
Nightfall.589
Canada766 Posts
I tried out the build order tester a few times, and I found macro to be fantastic with grid - only to get roflstomped in two ladder games because I couldn't do the simplest unit micro. | ||
|
BuzzJuice
United States97 Posts
| ||
|
debasers
737 Posts
On September 13 2010 08:14 Nightfall.589 wrote: Am I the only person in the world who thinks that grid hotkeys are a major fail simply because of the unit control keys? Specifically, attack on T? I find that to be the worst key Blizzard could have chosen for such an important function. I tried out the build order tester a few times, and I found macro to be fantastic with grid - only to get roflstomped in two ladder games because I couldn't do the simplest unit micro. if your units control groups are on 4, 5 and 6 it's pretty nice | ||
|
DarQraven
Netherlands553 Posts
However, that's only really if you play Random. Having played Protoss exclusively since launch has taught me all the unit hotkeys perfectly. If I want to build a VoidRay, I select the Stargate and press V (probably followed by 1,C,click for Chronoboost). I can't imagine that adding another step (Stargate selected, Voidray is the second unit so W) is faster once you get used to the regular ones. In fact, I don't think I even consciously think "V" anymore, I just move my fingers the way I know they will build a Voidray (always having Stargates on the same hotkey helps tremendously in this). I can sort of see the advantage for Terran though. With their confusing-as-hell macro (techlab/reactor/regular, etc) I can see the constant switching between hotkeys as a bit of a nuisance. | ||
|
Goshawk.
United Kingdom5338 Posts
On September 13 2010 08:14 Nightfall.589 wrote: Am I the only person in the world who thinks that grid hotkeys are a major fail simply because of the unit control keys? Specifically, attack on T? I find that to be the worst key Blizzard could have chosen for such an important function. I tried out the build order tester a few times, and I found macro to be fantastic with grid - only to get roflstomped in two ladder games because I couldn't do the simplest unit micro. Well, I guess attack being T truely makes it a grid. >_< You can always change attack from t to a. Also I found that, having unit abilities on zxc made me angry, so I went back to standard. | ||
|
Socke
Germany451 Posts
| ||
|
Phaded
Australia579 Posts
(B)uild a (G)ateway means my thought process clicks over faster than (Z) Build the building at position 2,2 (S) or whatever the corresponding Grid system is. | ||
|
Subversion
South Africa3627 Posts
| ||
|
drsnuggles
Korea (South)362 Posts
| ||
|
xiyuema
87 Posts
| ||
|
Pistolfied
Canada79 Posts
| ||
|
Nebo
United States44 Posts
| ||
|
Allelujah
8 Posts
Anybody know a way around this? | ||
|
Gnax
Sweden490 Posts
Also all of the keys are placed on the left side of the keyboard where you will use your left hand when you're normally typing, it makes no sense to use your left hand to press the keys on the right side of the keyboard. I dunno, but I'm assuming some of them are located there with the standard set up, correct me if I'm wrong. And for people who are having problems with "T" being attack move, I have no idea why that would be a problem at all. Pressing 1T, 2T, 3T is not harder than pressing 1A, 2A, 3A. I actually find it harder to press 1A than 1T since I have to use the same finger? -_-;; EDIT: Forgot to mention also that the hotkeys are pretty much the exact same for every race if you happen to be a random player. Making a worker is always Q, rax/gw is the same, pylon/supply same etc. | ||
|
N3rV[Green]
United States1935 Posts
I seriously dont even understand why people would want to change the hotkey setup....maybe its just me but if I do something 2 or three times its stuck up there in the brain area, and I dont need to "remember" that the key for zealot is fucking "z" >.< silly noobs | ||
|
Onlinejaguar
Australia2823 Posts
| ||
|
figq
12519 Posts
On September 01 2010 09:56 zor.au wrote: I know it's built into the game (unlike BW), and yet, since the BW leagues insisted on having the same key setup for all progamers, I wonder whether this might not going to become the case for pro-SC2, eventually.for Starcraft.... This is Starcraft 2. Its actually built into the game. One reason for it - less problems for event organizers with participants having trouble to setup their preferred hotkey configuration before playing. You might ask how could there be any problems with it. Well, running late due to other factors, for example. | ||
|
raph
United States204 Posts
| ||
|
Nomak
United States32 Posts
| ||
|
Calidus
150 Posts
| ||
|
TekKpriest
308 Posts
But tell me why did the op asked for this? It comes down to personal preference, and as long as you are using the most comfortable setup for you, you will always get better results. | ||
|
-_-
United States7081 Posts
However, I'll have to put in some thought as to whether it's the most effective way. But I'll leave the analysis as to what hotkey setup minimizes hand movement until I know the names of every unit. | ||
|
Nisani201
United States1400 Posts
The grid system is good if you're using all the races, because it's consistent. I don't like it because it's too much of a change from BW and Standard. | ||
|
RoarMan
Canada745 Posts
On September 13 2010 10:24 Onlinejaguar wrote: Grid works for me. It all comes down to preference. Yea, although I'm no Grid man, I do prefer the Standard set up and it really is all preference, I mean I don't do Grid because I'm scared of misclicks and Standard works fine for me. | ||
|
Fly[DCT]
Canada38 Posts
I believe it's quicker this way than moving my left hand trying to find it. | ||
|
TheToast
United States4808 Posts
WHY THE HELL IS THE IMMORTAL ON THE "I" KEY!!! Seriously when doing a three gate robo I do feel that this lowers my APM by at least a few points. It's redic, only three things come out of the robo bay, why does one of them need to use the "I" key?!! [/rant] edit: fixed typo | ||
|
MegaVolt
28 Posts
Using "t" for the a-move is just silly and could easily be fixed. | ||
|
PTZ.
72 Posts
edit: and T for attack move is totally fine after you play 15+ games. | ||
|
Excomm
United States152 Posts
1. I'm a random player and the grid system is set up intuitively to be similar for all the races (e.g. Q is the button to make a probe, make a scv, and is used both as spawn and spawn drone which is really nice since I can just hold down Q at the beginning when playing zerg) 2. For units I don't use often (and forget the hotkeys for), I can simply stare at the bottom right part of the screen and figure out which hotkey to press and this turns out to be much faster for me than mousing over the unit to find out the hotkey or having to click every time I want to make that unit. 3. Most of the casting abilities that I use the most are set to Z, so I don't need to memorize the casting hotkeys (e.g. stim, blink, force field, auto turret etc. are all Z). | ||
|
Zlasher
United States9129 Posts
| ||
|
Zarahtra
Iceland4053 Posts
(I'd prob not use it mind if I was z due to the select larvae -> make OL) | ||
|
Kage
India788 Posts
| ||
|
Hamlet
United States27 Posts
As far as why Immortal is on "I"--I think it's because of Hallucination, actually. Note that all Hallucin-able units are on distinct hotkeys, even when they're out of different buildings (also, the only two hotkey crashes are Carrier/Colossus on C and Probe/Sentry on E, and in either case, only of the pair can be Hallucinated). Finally, I think custom hotkeys are a slightly tricky proposition. There are a lot of potential conflicts. i.e. nothing can share the universal Warp Gate hotkey, no spell hotkey for any unit can crash with any of the 5 main movement commands, no Terran unit hotkeys can crash with addons/liftoff/land, etc. Not insurmountable by any means, but Blizzard for better or worse likes to have really idiot-proof UI in all their games and this might be hard to make really workable for the "average" (i.e. utterly clueless) user. | ||
|
Mjade
Australia10 Posts
Even went as far as changing my keyboard bindings with program called AutoHotkey, but was more trouble than it was worth and kind of felt like i was cheating =). | ||
|
Snowfield
1289 Posts
| ||
|
vek
Australia936 Posts
- Similar to what I was used to in Brood War. - Keeps your hands used to moving across the keyboard so you can use the 7,8,9,0 control groups (I see a lot of people completely ignore them). At the end of the day it comes down to what works for you personally. I would like the option for completely custom keybinds though... It was a pain having to deal with a single keybind for siege/tank mode and the changed mechanics. | ||
|
Powster
United States650 Posts
On September 13 2010 12:44 TheToast wrote: Here's my questions about the standard hotkeys: WHY THE HELL IS THE IMMORTAL ON THE "I" KEY!!! Seriously when doing a three gate robo I do feel that this lowers my APM by at least a few points. It's redic, only three things come out of the robo bay, why does one of them need to use the "I" key?!! [/rant] edit: fixed typo This is my reason for wanting to switch.. | ||
|
waffling1
599 Posts
On September 13 2010 13:00 MegaVolt wrote: The grid setup is kind of awesome, if only Blizzard had put the attack command in the correct position so that it gets activated by "a". Using "t" for the a-move is just silly and could easily be fixed. i suppose they wanted to position the attack button central to all the 10 numerc hotkeys. where is hold, patrol and stop on grid? btw | ||
|
Hamlet
United States27 Posts
T is awkward to get used for attack, but it's all a matter of habit. It becomes second nature eventually just like anything else, but is probably awkward for a while depending on how long you've been playing these games. | ||
|
Sanguinarius
United States3427 Posts
| ||
|
onmach
United States1241 Posts
I completely failed for multiple reasons. One I kept missing 9 overlord because q is both select larvae and create drone. This is a serious problem for zerg. The other problem I had was that I couldn't reliably hit spawn larvae, it is I think x key and I kept hitting creep tumor. It just feels wrong to hit it with anything other than my index finger. Finally I just gave up. My hotkey setup is completely different with and without grid and my muscle memory is way too ingrained to switch hatches to 1 from 5, and units from 1-3 to 4-6. | ||
|
Godstorm
Romania845 Posts
| ||
|
makoplux
88 Posts
On September 01 2010 07:02 Lysithea wrote: "terran is op! they're just a a-move race!" "repair isnt op wtf?!" User was warned for this post Why on earth does this guy get warned for this post? It was an obvious joke. | ||
|
mr_tolkien
France8631 Posts
But to my knowledge Patrol is the only shortcut on the right side of the keyboard in standard, right ? | ||
|
Wrongspeedy
United States1655 Posts
On September 13 2010 12:44 TheToast wrote: Here's my questions about the standard hotkeys: WHY THE HELL IS THE IMMORTAL ON THE "I" KEY!!! Seriously when doing a three gate robo I do feel that this lowers my APM by at least a few points. It's redic, only three things come out of the robo bay, why does one of them need to use the "I" key?!! [/rant] edit: fixed typo I actually usually have my robo/'s on 7, which is right next to I. So its pretty easy for me :D. | ||
|
lastreason
Romania250 Posts
| ||
|
Shaozor
United States10 Posts
| ||
|
Lil Sassy
United States26 Posts
On September 14 2010 02:15 mr_tolkien wrote: Patrol is so close in grid, I had never really thought about that... But to my knowledge Patrol is the only shortcut on the right side of the keyboard in standard, right ? Immortal is on I | ||
|
-Archangel-
Croatia7457 Posts
| ||
|
sjschmidt93
United States2518 Posts
Sometimes I wish I could do custom hotkeys, there are things I will just NEVER use a hotkey, like the immortal... and most upgrades I click. | ||
|
HanSoo
United States17 Posts
This I find a little confusing because I think it's easier push 1t2t3t4t5t than 1a2a3a4a5a specifically because "1a" requires some funky hand placement where as 1-5 + t is completely natural. I use the standard hotkeys and it's this reason why I use 4-6 for my army, because 4a5a6a is faster than 1a2a3a. For those of you that use 1a2a3a, how do you go about pushing "1a"? Do you use your ring finger for 1 and pinky for a? Or do you use pinky for both? Something else? | ||
|
pirsq
Australia145 Posts
My biggest complaint about the hotkeys is all the workers being a different button. I've had plenty of games where I've spent the first 5 seconds wondering why my Nexus is refusing to build an SCV. Now I just mash the left side of the keyboard to ensure that I get a worker. | ||
|
stickman.hqt
United States47 Posts
Also having hold position very close with the middle finger allows quite a bit easier time microing multiple control groups. Like doing muta micro at the back while assaulting the front with ground etc. The biggest hotkey change I wish I could change would be Backspace (base locations) so that I can larvae burst even faster. Queen 6-0 doesn't suit me all that well compared to Backspacing. | ||
|
Vodage
United States5 Posts
I'm a left-handed gamer who uses mouse in right hand; I pay a lot of attention to keybinds and I think I might be onto something here... ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/Bqmphaz.png) ( Hmmph. Image isn't loading properly for me. Here is link http://i.imgur.com/Bqmphaz.png ) It's basically centered around the idea of GRID, but extended to include control groups and cameras in a similar, clustered fashion. I call it "Grid Extended". Anyone who looks at a GRID thread probably already agree that the SC2 default hotkeys leave something to be desired. Though we have come a long way from BW (anyone remember O for Overlord?), Starcraft just doesn't feel as comfortable to play as other games. MMO games commonly require you to bind up the entire keyboard, but global cooldowns keep managing those hotkeys relatively simple, compared to RTS. FPS, on the other hand, is just as fast-paced, but also too simple for players to have to worry about uncomfortable key positions. I'm not saying I've got the next CORE here, but I think it's a good start. I'm really low league, so I'd like some higher-level players to take a look at it and tell me if it seems viable. Imo it's an improvement over the "T" attack and "B" cancel of the default GRID. Also if anyone's crazy enough to try it urself, pls tell me what u think! :-D P.S. The layout is by no means perfect. You'll probably wonder what the hell is going on the first time you build a Thor/Carrier/Battlecruiser with Spacebar. Also my hands are double-jointed. I can reach an octave+1 on a standard piano, so binds like "Shift+M" don't bother me at all. Ymmv. EDIT: Should also mention that I create cam locations with Shift. Incase it hasn't occured to anybody that using Ctrl instead would force ur hand over 1cm to the left. Also all my control groups create with either Ctrl OR Alt, and shift-to-add, ofc. Chances are, if u've played MMO, u've already considered replacing the SC2 Ctrl modifier with Alt. They're interchangeable rly, unless you Reeeally want a camera on F4 ^_^ | ||
|
Existor
Russian Federation4295 Posts
For example all the core abilities are on Q (since Move command is never used), some of the abilities have alternate F-keys, so I don't need to push my hand to the bottom of keyboard. Instead of Shift+# I prefer to add units to groups via Alt+#, and it also opens me 2nd keyboard - ALT+Q, ALT+W, etc. It's good especially when your big finger is always on alt button. All my hatcheries and Queens are on 9 and 0 groups, which are bound to mouse buttons to scrol wheel turn to the left/right. | ||
|
xuanzue
Colombia1747 Posts
On May 04 2014 00:25 Existor wrote: Using heavily modified Grid. For example all the core abilities are on Q (since Move command is never used), some of the abilities have alternate F-keys, so I don't need to push my hand to the bottom of keyboard. Instead of Shift+# I prefer to add units to groups via Alt+#, and it also opens me 2nd keyboard - ALT+Q, ALT+W, etc. It's good especially when your big finger is always on alt button. All my hatcheries and Queens are on 9 and 0 groups, which are bound to mouse buttons to scrol wheel turn to the left/right. I use Q like move command, mostly with banelings to avoid any premature detonation. | ||
|
t e a C h e r
Canada151 Posts
| ||
|
Blargh
United States2102 Posts
The default layout is obviously less efficient, because your hand should never have to wander across the keyboard to letters like U, I, etc. when it could just stay in the left half. Obviously, if you are already heavily accustomed to the original layout (as I am), then it'd be a pain in the ass for at least a week of playing to adjust. It's up to your whether or not it'd be worth the effort. I believe the reason you wouldn't see many pros using grid is because they have spent (literally) years using a specific layout, and I sort of doubt many of them could ever adjust. | ||
|
Vodage
United States5 Posts
Come to think of it (q-t ; a-g; z-v) does sound pretty good, as it moves the important stuff over to the right, so no more constant QAZ pressing. The middle and index fingers are the strongest, so it doesn't make much sense having the main keys under ur ring finger. T for build worker is a bit far away though. Then again i used to keep all my hatches on 6. It gets more interesting when u start looking for the most comfortable key combinations, like one after the other? Like Z-->Q for build base, u gotta tilt ur hand to press those in sequence, idk. So you're saying build base would be V-->T? I guess that's an improvement. At least u can see which way to tilt ur hand ^_^ | ||
| ||
