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Situation report 1 posted! - Page 71

Forum Index > SC2 General
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Orion_2kTC
Profile Joined May 2010
United States80 Posts
August 28 2010 13:14 GMT
#1401
As a terran player I support these changes. TvT will hopefully become a bit less painful when your opponent goes heavy tank/viking. The reaper change doesn't really make sense to me, but that may just be my own ignorance since I rarely use reapers. Perhaps I should change that. *shrug*
rockslave
Profile Blog Joined January 2008
Brazil318 Posts
August 28 2010 13:17 GMT
#1402
This patch is huge.
TvT is gonna be fun! Maybe I'll even play T again.
What qxc said.
Highwind
Profile Joined August 2010
United States1 Post
August 28 2010 13:19 GMT
#1403
The BC change from 10 dmg to 8 per shot worries me vs high armor land targets like the +6 an Ultra can get. In that match up the BC becomes 2 dmg per shot maxing out at an upgraded 5 dmg, the idea of using heavy air to counter their cleaving power becomes a very slow process. This holds true for other 3 and 4 armor units too but at a more reasonable level while still really punishing BCs for their fast attack speed armor wise.

My first reaction is why not add a little more delay to the BCs attack speed which is a crazy fast 0.225, bring it up to like 0.25 or 0.30 whatever it works out to math wise to lower their dps a little to keep it fair without being too much. I might be wrong but it seems that tweaking attack speed rather then dmg would let it keep some of its tier 3 stopping power rather then turning it into a rapid fire tickle ship with even less power per shot.

Thoughts? and might the math paint a different story then how it feels reacting to the change?
Coil
Profile Joined May 2010
Argentina119 Posts
August 28 2010 13:21 GMT
#1404
I'm a sad protoss No real nerf on terran helps protoss much, maybe the tank nerf for zealots... And we get nerfed yet again... I can already see every zerg 9pooling vP :/
<@Failure> I GOT RIZZIED <@Failure> NO ORDINARY GURL KAE <@Failure> SHE RIZZIE
Zarahtra
Profile Joined May 2010
Iceland4053 Posts
August 28 2010 13:28 GMT
#1405
On August 28 2010 22:14 Orion_2kTC wrote:
As a terran player I support these changes. TvT will hopefully become a bit less painful when your opponent goes heavy tank/viking. The reaper change doesn't really make sense to me, but that may just be my own ignorance since I rarely use reapers. Perhaps I should change that. *shrug*

What are you going to do in TvT vs tanks now? Marines? They get toasted anyway. Hellions theoretically might be able to run under the tanks and make them blow each other up, but the biggest impact this has is on TvZ and TvP, vs hydras, blings, maybe zlings(splash) and zlots.
In these MU I personally am not sure if the tank will hold it's place(heck the tank lost it's place in TvP for me a long time ago).
Nillinch
Profile Joined July 2010
Poland147 Posts
August 28 2010 13:31 GMT
#1406
Here is a reason of nerfing BC's: http://www.sc2rep.com/replays/show/id/906

enjoy
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Sanguinarius
Profile Joined January 2010
United States3427 Posts
August 28 2010 13:34 GMT
#1407
The more I think about the changes, the more I am not thrilled.
Your strength is just an accident arising from the weakness of others -Heart of Darkness
Nillinch
Profile Joined July 2010
Poland147 Posts
August 28 2010 13:37 GMT
#1408
Here is a reason of nerfing BC's: http://www.sc2rep.com/replays/show/id/906

enjoy
¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Zarahtra
Profile Joined May 2010
Iceland4053 Posts
August 28 2010 13:40 GMT
#1409
On August 28 2010 22:31 MrKozi wrote:
Here is a reason of nerfing BC's: http://www.sc2rep.com/replays/show/id/906

enjoy

Got scouted and still expanded... That wasn't so much a strength of the BC as much as a underestimation by the protoss player. I mean heck if you look at the army values and harvester count, this was pretty much an all in, which the protoss player just walked in, by spreading him thin via expand.
Jarmam
Profile Joined June 2010
Denmark140 Posts
August 28 2010 13:41 GMT
#1410
On August 28 2010 22:19 Highwind wrote:
The BC change from 10 dmg to 8 per shot worries me vs high armor land targets like the +6 an Ultra can get. In that match up the BC becomes 2 dmg per shot maxing out at an upgraded 5 dmg, the idea of using heavy air to counter their cleaving power becomes a very slow process. This holds true for other 3 and 4 armor units too but at a more reasonable level while still really punishing BCs for their fast attack speed armor wise.

My first reaction is why not add a little more delay to the BCs attack speed which is a crazy fast 0.225, bring it up to like 0.25 or 0.30 whatever it works out to math wise to lower their dps a little to keep it fair without being too much. I might be wrong but it seems that tweaking attack speed rather then dmg would let it keep some of its tier 3 stopping power rather then turning it into a rapid fire tickle ship with even less power per shot.

Thoughts? and might the math paint a different story then how it feels reacting to the change?


This exactly. Lowering the fire rate of BCs would make tremendously more sense since the proposed nerf is *at least 20%* less damage, whereas 20% less shots per x seconds would mean *constant* 20% less damage.

The change proposed makes no sense *at all*, even ignoring the fact that its a big change which in itself is iffy.
"Freedom for Colossus" - White-Ra
BeMannerDuPenner
Profile Blog Joined April 2004
Germany5638 Posts
August 28 2010 13:44 GMT
#1411
On August 28 2010 22:28 Zarahtra wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 28 2010 22:14 Orion_2kTC wrote:
As a terran player I support these changes. TvT will hopefully become a bit less painful when your opponent goes heavy tank/viking. The reaper change doesn't really make sense to me, but that may just be my own ignorance since I rarely use reapers. Perhaps I should change that. *shrug*

What are you going to do in TvT vs tanks now? Marines? They get toasted anyway. Hellions theoretically might be able to run under the tanks and make them blow each other up, but the biggest impact this has is on TvZ and TvP, vs hydras, blings, maybe zlings(splash) and zlots.
In these MU I personally am not sure if the tank will hold it's place(heck the tank lost it's place in TvP for me a long time ago).



exactly.

the tank change is hoorrible for the game (just like their reasoning for it).

TvT will be less dynamic and more mass bio vs bio fights.

tvp instead of 80% bio play we'll see 100% pure bio play and the whole matchup will come down to "can i emp all his templars?"

tvz ... lets see how much it changes how tanks do vs lings/hydras/banelings. cant tell yet but this could brake the matchup (pure bio isnt viable. pure mech isnt viable. bio+tank was where its at. if tanks are too weak now there might be a problem).



as a random player i totally disagree with the drastic tank&bc nerfs. ultra nerf is irrelevant and the zeal nerf wont do much outside of giving Z early a bit more breathing room. many issues ignored, still crappy maps,most likely none of the important features added... this patch imho will be a joke and esp their reasonings are plain stupid.
life of lively to live to life of full life thx to shield battery
tchan
Profile Joined August 2010
Australia121 Posts
August 28 2010 13:45 GMT
#1412
I really hope they don't end up implementing the zealot time nerf.
tacrats
Profile Joined July 2010
476 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-28 13:54:23
August 28 2010 13:52 GMT
#1413
On August 28 2010 19:38 Nilrem wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 28 2010 19:29 sleepingdog wrote:
6-pool is still ineffective because you can wall off with frickin probes - you don't even need a fast zealot to hold it off

still I can't believe blizzard is doing this to the game; they screwed up in warcraft 3, but chaning the fundamentals of protoss' early game just because some noobs lose against other noobs who go fast-zealots is beyond me

but then again blizzard balances the game for bronze/silver 3v3 where it's obvious that one player going 6 factory mass-siege-tanks will own


What about on scrapstation? Walling off wont cut it, and you would have take off the majority of your probes off the line if you wanted to walloff.


do you know how long the rush distance is on scrapstation........................................................

stop trying to find a reason to QQ about a nerf.



Noocta
Profile Joined June 2010
France12578 Posts
August 28 2010 13:56 GMT
#1414
On August 28 2010 21:51 L0thar wrote:
Terrible patch overall, all they had to do was buff zerg early game and nerf ultralisk, but instead we got this. Maybe I'm overreacting, but better be pissed now and pleasantly surprised later than be hopefull at first and than terribly dissapointed.



That's pretty much all they do here..
And it's funny to see terran players cry about banelings.. Afraid because u will have to micro your "bioball 1a" a little ? :|
" I'm not gonna fight you. I'm gonna kick your ass ! "
esperanto
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
Germany357 Posts
August 28 2010 13:58 GMT
#1415
Correct me if i am wrong, but with these changes i highly doubt, that its possible for a 12/13gate protoss player to get a zealot out (and wall off the ramp) before the initial early pool zearglings run in.
I kinda know what every Zerg player will do in PvZ in gold/plat league now.
Uranium
Profile Blog Joined May 2010
United States1077 Posts
August 28 2010 14:01 GMT
#1416
Everything looks pretty legit... but I'm kind of worried about that siege tank nerf. 35 damage is super super weak. That's 3 hits to kill a hydra, and since they have +15 v armored its 3 hits to kill a Roach too, so you might as well just mass Hydras.

I play Zerg btw, but honestly Siege Tanks are going to be a complete joke after this.
"Sentry imba! You see? YOU SEE??!!" - Sen | "Marauder die die!" - oGsMC | "Oh my god, she texted me back!" - Day[9]
ch4ppi
Profile Joined July 2010
Germany802 Posts
August 28 2010 14:06 GMT
#1417
Wow, Blizzard did a great job there.
I'm sure, these are not all the changes. So I wont be afraid of "X needs the nerf or buff and its not in the patch"-QQ

Tank nerf is huge, its nice
Reaper nerf, im not sure if thats enough to stop reaper abuse, I'd still like to see early Z being buffed instead of reaper beeing nerfed.
Bunker: okayish, Salvage change or dismiss would still be 10 times better
BC: Yay, a BC wont fuck 10 hyds anymore ;D

P: Hm, Buildtime nerf is a huge hit to early game...but I like the Idea to weaken proxy cheese.

Ultradmg nerf is...not that big of a hit...
Perkins1752
Profile Joined May 2009
Germany214 Posts
August 28 2010 14:08 GMT
#1418
lol @ people saying hydras will be vailable in ZvT. They kill banshees, after patch mabye BC's but every Terran ground unit is tearing them apart.
BeMannerDuPenner
Profile Blog Joined April 2004
Germany5638 Posts
Last Edited: 2010-08-28 14:13:35
August 28 2010 14:10 GMT
#1419
On August 28 2010 22:56 Noocta wrote:
Show nested quote +
On August 28 2010 21:51 L0thar wrote:
Terrible patch overall, all they had to do was buff zerg early game and nerf ultralisk, but instead we got this. Maybe I'm overreacting, but better be pissed now and pleasantly surprised later than be hopefull at first and than terribly dissapointed.



That's pretty much all they do here..
And it's funny to see terran players cry about banelings.. Afraid because u will have to micro your "bioball 1a" a little ? :|


its funny how insanely biased guys taunt out of their rage.


fact is the only counter to banelings are tanks.

not only is micro to be somewhat cost effective vs banelings VERY hard to impossible ( mm vs lurker micro was a breeze compared) but also can all micro be shut down by fungal.


think before writing .



On August 28 2010 23:08 Perkins1752 wrote:
lol @ people saying hydras will be vailable in ZvT. They kill banshees, after patch mabye BC's but every Terran ground unit is tearing them apart.



plain wrong. hydras beat evrything T on ground except for healed mass rines or tanks. tanks deal 30% dmg less which might (we'll see) be enough for hydra/lings to get a huge boost in tvz.


life of lively to live to life of full life thx to shield battery
Grummler
Profile Joined May 2010
Germany743 Posts
August 28 2010 14:10 GMT
#1420
On August 28 2010 21:26 Izzachar wrote:
Marauders are cost effective vs hydras and thats even without stim...

With stim marauders pwn hydras hard.


Long time lurker, first time poster, blablabla... Posts like these annoy me since like forever.

Lets see:
4 Marauders (400 minerals, 100 gas) vs 2 hydralisks and 8 zerglings (400 minerals, 100gas). I will also give +1/+1 upragdes AND stim to the marauders without taking the costs into account. Zerglings and Hydras are without any upragdes and have to fight off creep.

Zerg wins*.

Oh, and Hydras can shoot air, marauders cant. And obviously you cant compare marauders and hydras 1:1 because they have a different minerals/gas ratio. 4 marauders will beat 2 hydras, but with double the mineral cost, without the flexibility (they cant shoot air) they just HAVE to beat hydras gas wise.

Marauders never were the problem, especially not in zvt. Stop making things up.

With magic boxing removing thors splash and tanks pretty bad against anthing not armored zvt wil change a lot in the near future after patch 1.1. I think we will see even more bio and obviously more baneling/muta action. I fear that this matchup will become one sided as terran dominates the early game, while zerg dominates later on. So either the terran wins straight away, or loses on the long run.


* Source: unit test map 1.4
workers, supply, money, workers, supply, money, workers, ...
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