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+ Show Spoiler +On April 22 2011 12:17 Kisra wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2011 11:49 Liquid`Tyler wrote:+ Show Spoiler +The hype can come after some successful broadcasts and you'll hear about it and get on board and enjoy it. From the start they funded and planned three full seasons so it's not like they needed huge numbers on day one to work on getting a second season. Let the hardcore folks and the hipsters be there at day one for everything, and let content filter through them. If you can choose between following the hype of thousands of objective fans who have actually seen the league OR following the hype from people who work for the league and haven't even seen the league yet, which do you choose? I mean, if you're passionate enough about the game then you're gonna check everything out whether there's hype or not. But if you don't have time or aren't interested enough, then you should listen to the community, not the promoters. Here's your hype. If reddit wasn't down, I'm sure there'd be an explosion of praise over there too. The most hardcore people post on and read forums, and they have more casual friends who look at them as that hardcore SC2 guy and respect his opinion, and those friends in turn have even more casual friends that respect their opinions, and by word of mouth before you know it probably 25k+ people are aware of IPL's successful debut within 24 hours of their first cast, no pre-hype necessary. I mean honestly I really find it hard to believe people posting on forums cannot respect the power of the internet to spread a message quickly. You REALLY think the NASL of all leagues, which is so protracted, needs a ton of pre-hype to succeed? There's no way 9+ weeks would go by, and an in-person final 16, and $100k prize pool given out, without people having a chance to hear about it and check it out. And that was gonna happen guaranteed 3 times no matter what, with a record-breaking $200k given out the 3rd time. This wasn't gonna slip by unnoticed. Have a little self-respect as a community here. Pre-hype is completely superfluous in this situation. I agree on a lot of points, but I want to take it a step further in trying to explain the reaction the NASL has got. The internet is great for getting word out fast, but it can also be a very negative environment. That's partially human nature - when everything is good, not many people go and post "Hey thats really awesome" (which is part of the reason why half my posts are "thats awesome" to try and be some kind of balance, anyway...) - when stuff goes bad, though, even for a few seconds, posts start popping up. So when iNcontroL promises an amazing tournament and a huge leap forward for the North American SC2 scene (and it still is), a lot of people get excited, but a lot of people get skeptical. For some reason forums can foster some rather bileous people, who just love to see drama, or people fail, or anything. If you leaf through the NASL Day 2-2 thread there's a bunch of people talking about Cruncher being shit on (which he wasn't) purely because people seem to hunt for the negative. So when NASL doesn't live up to what iNc said - or at least inferred it as - I'm not too surprised when a few people get grumpy. ... That said, I am shocked at the volume of negativity. Most of the time the NASL works pretty well, you get to watch some of the best players in the world playing each other for a huge prize pool. Every day there's improvements. Every day there's communication from the people involved. Very few people mention this, and for some reason just look for reasons to trash iNcontroL or bash the NASL I'm doubly surprised at the volume of negativity from the community which, as far as I understand it, kept the Brood War scene in the West alive for a long time. It might just be the influx of new blood, but it feels like a weird attitude change. I'll end my post by saying I don't think iNcontroL did anything wrong. What he, and Russ, and everyone else involved has made is something special. The work they put in is visible day after day. There's mistakes, sure, but they started ambitious and they've learned from that. For some reason every time someone mentions the NASL, someone else seems to want to bash it... ... and personally I find that a bit saddening. The excuse 'We just want them to improve' doesn't fly when you see some of the comments that get posted in the Live Report thread, or in the JTV chat (please turn that off, its awful to read). Support the NASL. Help build something that can last, and grow, and become a major force in eSports. Make every post about it constructive. Mention the bad, sure, but don't be rude. Praise the good. Enjoy the games. And in the end, have fun.
The reality is, that over 90% of the Starcraft community is compromised of highly critical, dogmatic, obsessive-compulsive young males. Even most players fall into this category.
This audience is typically the most difficult to capture (ask any marketer) because they gain social capital by appearing critical. They form relationships not just based on what they enjoy, but what they hate, creating a very unforgiving and easily biased audience.
I agree, that over-hyping and under-delivering is never a good thing. But the older you get (I'm old as shit, everybody), the more forgiving you are of people that sell themselves to create opportunity, but fall short.
I'm not going to bust NASL's balls about not having tip-top audio, the same way I'm not going to bust Tyler's balls about Team Liquid performing so poorly in recent tournaments (Oh SNAP again!) Because frankly, doing anything at a high level takes a lot of hard work, support and a little luck.
And it's more arrogant to think you are so brilliant that you can get through life without selling yourself a little, than to put yourself out there and just try and do something great, even if you're not sure how.
So for the love of god Tyler, put your twitter link in your signature at the bottom of your posts.
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imagine IGNs production with the playerpool of the NASL. it would be fucking awesome...
The NASL is just bad. I dont get why people are saying they are gettin better and better every day. The only thing that they are doing is fixing problems which shouldnt even be there. And even when they are done fixing all the problems what is there? theres still no production, theres still just an okish caster duo and a pretty boring preshow. I really like that people are trying to support their idols but srsly be honest and tell your idol that his show sucks right now and that they need to put up a better show.
i mean iNcontroL isnt dumb so he'll know that by himself but still...
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On April 22 2011 11:49 Liquid`Tyler wrote:The hype can come after some successful broadcasts and you'll hear about it and get on board and enjoy it. From the start they funded and planned three full seasons so it's not like they needed huge numbers on day one to work on getting a second season. Let the hardcore folks and the hipsters be there at day one for everything, and let content filter through them. If you can choose between following the hype of thousands of objective fans who have actually seen the league OR following the hype from people who work for the league and haven't even seen the league yet, which do you choose? I mean, if you're passionate enough about the game then you're gonna check everything out whether there's hype or not. But if you don't have time or aren't interested enough, then you should listen to the community, not the promoters. Here's your hype. If reddit wasn't down, I'm sure there'd be an explosion of praise over there too. The most hardcore people post on and read forums, and they have more casual friends who look at them as that hardcore SC2 guy and respect his opinion, and those friends in turn have even more casual friends that respect their opinions, and by word of mouth before you know it probably 25k+ people are aware of IPL's successful debut within 24 hours of their first cast, no pre-hype necessary. I mean honestly I really find it hard to believe people posting on forums cannot respect the power of the internet to spread a message quickly. You REALLY think the NASL of all leagues, which is so protracted, needs a ton of pre-hype to succeed? There's no way 9+ weeks would go by, and an in-person final 16, and $100k prize pool given out, without people having a chance to hear about it and check it out. And that was gonna happen guaranteed 3 times no matter what, with a record-breaking $200k given out the 3rd time. This wasn't gonna slip by unnoticed. Have a little self-respect as a community here. Pre-hype is completely superfluous in this situation.
yeah it's pretty funny that people who take the time to post on a Starcraft 2 forum and probably spend a lot of time here don't understand how all this works.
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On April 22 2011 12:58 CEPEHDREI wrote:
imagine IGNs production with the playerpool of the NASL. it would be fucking awesome...
The NASL is just bad. I dont get why people are saying they are gettin better and better every day. The only thing that they are doing is fixing problems which shouldnt even be there. And even when they are done fixing all the problems what is there? theres still no production, theres still just an okish caster duo and a pretty boring preshow. I really like that people are trying to support their idols but srsly be honest and tell your idol that his show sucks right now and that they need to put up a better show.
i mean inControL isnt dumb so he'll know that by himself but still...
This kind of illustrates the point of my earlier post. "Some people" enjoying hating things so much they wants us to share in their hatred under the guise of constructive criticism.
*Edited out of courtesy
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Northern Ireland2557 Posts
after reading Tylers past few posts i have such a mancrush on Tyler right now  he is so eloquent, wise and handsome
+ Show Spoiler +
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On April 22 2011 12:58 CEPEHDREI wrote:
imagine IGNs production with the playerpool of the NASL. it would be fucking awesome...
.
haha ... do you not realize the playerpool of the NASL is what makes it so great ? I didn't even read the rest of the hate post but ... seriously what really matters is the games and they ARE improving
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All this NASL stuff is veering wildly away from what is important:
What on EARTH was incontrol thinking, telling us that Anna's interruptions were planned ahead. Its like a woman saying that she faked an orgasm. We all suspected, but to have it confirmed...
Tsk.
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Northern Ireland2557 Posts
i wish Anna would stop interrupting... seems like a publicity stunt just to get her name out there more tbh. its getting pretty tedious after the 50th time
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On April 22 2011 14:18 Maliris wrote:
i wish Anna would stop interrupting... seems like a publicity stunt just to get her name out there more tbh. its getting pretty tedious after the 50th time
They told Anna to keep calling during the show dude, she asks good questions. But seriously, you're making drama out of it? It's a fucking chill podcast, what made you think it's a "publicity stunt"? I really hope you are kidding.
Edit: I'm just going to assume you weren't kidding and say FUCKING GET OVER IT it's their podcast
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On April 22 2011 14:18 Maliris wrote:
i wish Anna would stop interrupting... seems like a publicity stunt just to get her name out there more tbh. its getting pretty tedious after the 50th time
I chalk it up to "Pretty Girls Want Attention" Syndrome and nothing more.
And the reason why they don't stop it is due to "Guys Cave to Pretty Girls" Disease.
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Liquid tyler how you so smart lol.
Agree 100% with everything he's said here.
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On April 22 2011 14:25 FortyOzs wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2011 14:18 Maliris wrote:
i wish Anna would stop interrupting... seems like a publicity stunt just to get her name out there more tbh. its getting pretty tedious after the 50th time They told Anna to keep calling during the show dude, she asks good questions. But seriously, you're making drama out of it? It's a fucking chill podcast, what made you think it's a "publicity stunt"? I really hope you are kidding. Edit: I'm just going to assume you weren't kidding and say FUCKING GET OVER IT it's their podcast
lol dude, you should probably calm down a little, he just stated his opinion about the podcast. He doesn't enjoy it when she interrupts, is that such a big problem that you need to jump all over him for it?
It is okay to criticize the podcast if you don't like it, it just provides more feedback and gives an idea to what people actually think when they are listening to it.
As for the legitimacy of his complaint, it isn't so far fetched. It surely isn't annoying to the point where i would make a big deal out of it, but I couldn't help but feel off-put when she interrupted Tyler because I really look forward to hearing him speak about things because they are always quite intelligent and analytical. They went off on a whole other tangent about questions and whatever while I lost track of what Tyler was saying. But even having said all that, I love it when she calls because she brings humor to the podcast and it is always welcoming to hear her opinions about things related to the starcraft scene. It is a refreshing perspective coming from outside the pillars.
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On April 22 2011 13:02 Defacer wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2011 12:58 CEPEHDREI wrote:
imagine IGNs production with the playerpool of the NASL. it would be fucking awesome...
The NASL is just bad. I dont get why people are saying they are gettin better and better every day. The only thing that they are doing is fixing problems which shouldnt even be there. And even when they are done fixing all the problems what is there? theres still no production, theres still just an okish caster duo and a pretty boring preshow. I really like that people are trying to support their idols but srsly be honest and tell your idol that his show sucks right now and that they need to put up a better show.
i mean inControL isnt dumb so he'll know that by himself but still... This kind of illustrates the point of my earlier post. "Some people" enjoying hating things so much they wants us to share in their hatred under the guise of constructive criticism. *Edited out of courtesy
On April 22 2011 13:14 ShooTouts wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2011 12:58 CEPEHDREI wrote:
imagine IGNs production with the playerpool of the NASL. it would be fucking awesome...
. haha ... do you not realize the playerpool of the NASL is what makes it so great ? I didn't even read the rest of the hate post but ... seriously what really matters is the games and they ARE improving
Oh come on i dont hate the NASL or just want to hate them. I want them to be big and if they can step up at production than they have the best tournament out there and it would make me happy. But right now the show isnt good or AWESOME like others are trying to say and thats all im trying to say. i can see that my post was a bit harsh but pls dont make everyone who has negative things to say a hater. I rly want the NASL to be successful.
In europe we have nearly every day a cup where our top tier players are competing against each other so FOR ME the NASL needs more than just a great player pool.
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Northern Ireland2557 Posts
On April 22 2011 14:25 FortyOzs wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2011 14:18 Maliris wrote:
i wish Anna would stop interrupting... seems like a publicity stunt just to get her name out there more tbh. its getting pretty tedious after the 50th time They told Anna to keep calling during the show dude, she asks good questions. But seriously, you're making drama out of it? It's a fucking chill podcast, what made you think it's a "publicity stunt"? I really hope you are kidding. Edit: I'm just going to assume you weren't kidding and say FUCKING GET OVER IT it's their podcast
im allowed to voice criticism, you are aware of that right? Why exactly does this antagonise you so much? not everyone that has a conflicting view is a "hater/troll". why is Anna allowed special treatment? and you really have trouble comprehending the fact that it is possibly a publicity stunt? She is a pageant model/eSports journalist/performance coach) her career is pretty much founded upon self publicity.. also what is there to "FUCKING GET OVER"? I don't like it, so i voiced my opinion, others have also held this opinion, if the SOTG hosts don't want to change it they don't have to, doesn't hurt to give feedback
Anyway on topic: enjoyed this weeks episode, certainly a step up from the previous weeks where everyone was pretty depressed for most of it  I actually closed the stream when everyone started giving their shoutouts, since i thought the show was over but it went on for another 15mins just watching the rest of the VOD now, not sure if anyone else did the same thing but maybe leave shoutouts till the very end? i guess it isn't really a big deal and was kind of impromptu since day9 suddenly announced he had to leave  just throwing it out there anyway
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All sorts of mad in this thread its insane.
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On April 22 2011 14:44 CEPEHDREI wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2011 13:02 Defacer wrote:On April 22 2011 12:58 CEPEHDREI wrote:
imagine IGNs production with the playerpool of the NASL. it would be fucking awesome...
The NASL is just bad. I dont get why people are saying they are gettin better and better every day. The only thing that they are doing is fixing problems which shouldnt even be there. And even when they are done fixing all the problems what is there? theres still no production, theres still just an okish caster duo and a pretty boring preshow. I really like that people are trying to support their idols but srsly be honest and tell your idol that his show sucks right now and that they need to put up a better show.
i mean inControL isnt dumb so he'll know that by himself but still... This kind of illustrates the point of my earlier post. "Some people" enjoying hating things so much they wants us to share in their hatred under the guise of constructive criticism. *Edited out of courtesy Show nested quote +On April 22 2011 13:14 ShooTouts wrote:On April 22 2011 12:58 CEPEHDREI wrote:
imagine IGNs production with the playerpool of the NASL. it would be fucking awesome...
. haha ... do you not realize the playerpool of the NASL is what makes it so great ? I didn't even read the rest of the hate post but ... seriously what really matters is the games and they ARE improving Oh come on i dont hate the NASL or just want to hate them. I want them to be big and if they can step up at production than they have the best tournament out there and it would make me happy. But right now the show is bad(not good if u like it better this way) and thats all im trying to say. i can see that my post was a bit harsh but pls dont make everyone who has negative things to say a hater. I rly want the NASL to be successful. In europe we have nearly every day a cup where our top tier players are competing against each other so FOR ME the NASL needs more than just a great player pool.
I apologize for implying you're a hater. I saw your post and used it as an broad example of how I think all guys between the ages of 16 and 23 are, in general, too negative and critical for their own good.
Most people start to mellow out around 28 or 29.
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On April 22 2011 14:48 Maliris wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2011 14:25 FortyOzs wrote:On April 22 2011 14:18 Maliris wrote:
i wish Anna would stop interrupting... seems like a publicity stunt just to get her name out there more tbh. its getting pretty tedious after the 50th time They told Anna to keep calling during the show dude, she asks good questions. But seriously, you're making drama out of it? It's a fucking chill podcast, what made you think it's a "publicity stunt"? I really hope you are kidding. Edit: I'm just going to assume you weren't kidding and say FUCKING GET OVER IT it's their podcast im allowed to voice criticism, you are aware of that right? Why exactly does this antagonise you so much? not everyone that has a conflicting view is a "hater/troll". why is Anna allowed special treatment? and you really have trouble comprehending the fact that it is possibly a publicity stunt? She is a pageant model/eSports journalist/performance coach) her career is pretty much founded upon self publicity.. also what is there to "FUCKING GET OVER"? I don't like it, so i voiced my opinion, others have also held this opinion, if the SOTG hosts don't want to change it they don't have to, doesn't hurt to give feedback
Anna is allowed special treatment because she is Geoff's girlfriend. Pretty simple. Its hilarious when she calls in and she asks great questions at least.
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Northern Ireland2557 Posts
On April 22 2011 14:53 jmbthirteen wrote:Show nested quote +On April 22 2011 14:48 Maliris wrote:On April 22 2011 14:25 FortyOzs wrote:On April 22 2011 14:18 Maliris wrote:
i wish Anna would stop interrupting... seems like a publicity stunt just to get her name out there more tbh. its getting pretty tedious after the 50th time They told Anna to keep calling during the show dude, she asks good questions. But seriously, you're making drama out of it? It's a fucking chill podcast, what made you think it's a "publicity stunt"? I really hope you are kidding. Edit: I'm just going to assume you weren't kidding and say FUCKING GET OVER IT it's their podcast im allowed to voice criticism, you are aware of that right? Why exactly does this antagonise you so much? not everyone that has a conflicting view is a "hater/troll". why is Anna allowed special treatment? and you really have trouble comprehending the fact that it is possibly a publicity stunt? She is a pageant model/eSports journalist/performance coach) her career is pretty much founded upon self publicity.. also what is there to "FUCKING GET OVER"? I don't like it, so i voiced my opinion, others have also held this opinion, if the SOTG hosts don't want to change it they don't have to, doesn't hurt to give feedback Anna is allowed special treatment because she is Geoff's girlfriend. Pretty simple. Its hilarious when she calls in and she asks great questions at least.
JP's brother should walk over and ask questions imo, and maybe let Tyler's wife ask some too, that would be hilarious too
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Geoff told her to call, so she does. She asks good questions and seems to care about the game, perhaps if she called just to say something dumb then i could understand.
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On April 22 2011 11:49 Liquid`Tyler wrote:The hype can come after some successful broadcasts and you'll hear about it and get on board and enjoy it. From the start they funded and planned three full seasons so it's not like they needed huge numbers on day one to work on getting a second season. Let the hardcore folks and the hipsters be there at day one for everything, and let content filter through them. If you can choose between following the hype of thousands of objective fans who have actually seen the league OR following the hype from people who work for the league and haven't even seen the league yet, which do you choose? I mean, if you're passionate enough about the game then you're gonna check everything out whether there's hype or not. But if you don't have time or aren't interested enough, then you should listen to the community, not the promoters. Here's your hype. If reddit wasn't down, I'm sure there'd be an explosion of praise over there too. The most hardcore people post on and read forums, and they have more casual friends who look at them as that hardcore SC2 guy and respect his opinion, and those friends in turn have even more casual friends that respect their opinions, and by word of mouth before you know it probably 25k+ people are aware of IPL's successful debut within 24 hours of their first cast, no pre-hype necessary. I mean honestly I really find it hard to believe people posting on forums cannot respect the power of the internet to spread a message quickly. You REALLY think the NASL of all leagues, which is so protracted, needs a ton of pre-hype to succeed? There's no way 9+ weeks would go by, and an in-person final 16, and $100k prize pool given out, without people having a chance to hear about it and check it out. And that was gonna happen guaranteed 3 times no matter what, with a record-breaking $200k given out the 3rd time. This wasn't gonna slip by unnoticed. Have a little self-respect as a community here. Pre-hype is completely superfluous in this situation.
I thought you of all people would understand the hype. Basically Inc is a guy that has been a lifetime starcraft player and he got the opportunity to host a HUGE league. If it were me you are damn right I would call it a big announcement. The fact is the announcement was huge and was awesome.
If people want to get upset about technical problems that is fine but lets get real. This is a huge opportunity for North American SC2 fans and since Incontrol is the front man everyone just wants to blame him for technical difficulties.
Treating the announcement like it was just a calm businessman producing another league that he hope will catch on is ridiculous. You are criticizing one of the most passionate players for being emotional about the league rather than being calculating and emotionless. Just ridiculous.
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