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Official State of the Game Podcast Thread - Page 827
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Spicy Pepper
United States632 Posts
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youngminii
Australia7514 Posts
On April 22 2011 06:57 iNcontroL wrote: calling gosucoaching a failure means A. you are a troll OR B. you have no idea and just want to hate Say what you want about the NASL but gosucoaching is a HUGE success. Like, gargantuan. There is no SC2 coaching website that pulls in 1/10th as much business. this is what i mean when i say i haven't been around, i seriously have no idea which is why i'm asking in any case, good work | ||
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Fries
United States124 Posts
On April 22 2011 07:37 Spicy Pepper wrote: ....Then you won't have the rational voices. The ones being the loudest are generally not the rational voices. People saying the entire crew should be fired is not rational. People saying they're clearly trying to make a quick buck are not being rational. And I feel like bringing up the whole Kelly situation is a horrible example, as a lot of the vocal minority were personal attacks on her. Angry nerds on the internet can be incredibly mean and stupid. | ||
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billyX333
United States1360 Posts
On April 22 2011 07:24 fauxGsMC wrote: I was super excited for NASL when they made the announcement and so far I am very satisfied with the 20$ I spent on it. Yeah i've had problems with the stream and they've had some other problems but I'm not sure what everyone expected when they announced it. I expected 5 games with my favorite players every night. So far that is what I've got (okay only 4 games on some nights and while I wish I got those missing games, it's nothing i'd whine about on the internet). Am I the only one that A. didn't expect ESPN quality production and B. doesn't need it to enjoy watching great starcraft games? Yes I wish the vods were easier to watch like they are for the GSL and was unhappy about the editing problem with spoilers but those aren't anything I'd ask for my money back over. More fans need this mindset. Its nice to read posts like this among the ocean of irrational criticism and hate. The production is going to prove. I'm sure a lot of those who are working on the production are learning on the job. Every whine post is whining about shit that is 100% fixable. The only thing that would make these problems unfixable would be a lack of money and funding and I'm positive that isn't a problem | ||
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Spicy Pepper
United States632 Posts
It's not about the loudest voice (I never said it was), it's about having a quantity of voices that disapprove of what you do. Unfortunately, it's not practical to receive this quantity in a rational form, so you're going to receive it as an emotional outburst. If you disagree, okay, I just think it has a certain value, when running a business trying to gauge feedback. I agree with the sentiment that alot of people criticizing Kelly was bordering on racism (sotg asian voices) or blatant racism and sexism (some of those online chats). But it was due to having a really long thread of alot of people who didn't like her, and the majority of those posts weren't rational arguments about why they didn't like her. It was pretty emotional and irrational. | ||
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BeMannerDuPenner
Germany5638 Posts
On April 22 2011 07:17 Frozenserpent wrote: On the other hand, you will always have people criticizing and bitching about something, or upset about something, so you still have to decide if it's warranted criticism or not. Lots of perfectly fine establishments have to deal with this shit all the time, and if they listened to every little thing and tried to implement it.... it would just hurt them. So yeah, bitching complaints actually aren't helpful, and are definitely counterproducive. Especially since they're simply not rational and don't say anything except to discourage them from continuing. what you say is certainly true but doesnt really apply here. pretty much all criticism was "reasonable" (outside of the gretorp hate). evrything people bitch about was/is indeed stuff that should be better(sound,music,vods,stream,casting,framerate...). even if we compare current nasl to random small events instead of gsl (which would be the most fair comparison since its the direct competition for pay2view) its not good. tsl,gsl,dreamhack etc show that its entirely possible to please the viewers and outside of the unavoidable 1% of bullshit people get only positive feedback. to be fair ALOT of the the criticism is related to the hype and how nasl handled the launch. but announcing the best thing since sliced bread and charging people before beeing able to deliver/really test naturally angers alot of people. the IGN interview showed exactly what NASL shouldve done. a calm approach with a testseason, tons of volunteers etc. but by charging people for it (and its a pretty much forced payment) they cross a line. now its business. its not a "here are our sponsors, support them and now lets have fun!" thing where people say that it was fine when they had a nice hour of entertainment. and people treat it like business , so as customers or potential customers they have a very close eye on the once promised quality and voice their opinion on it. im sure that the VAST majority of people that complain arent "hating". they want NASL to succeed and pick it up. cause why the hell would anyone not want to see such a thing succeed. but right now they cant deliver and made qutie some mistakes which just dissappoints lots of people and makes em bitch about the problems. On April 22 2011 07:45 billyX333 wrote: More fans need this mindset. Its nice to read posts like this among the ocean of irrational criticism and hate. The production is going to prove. I'm sure a lot of those who are working on the production are learning on the job. Every whine post is whining about shit that is 100% fixable. The only thing that would make these problems unfixable would be a lack of money and funding and I'm positive that isn't a problem see thats one of the main problems. if its all so easy fixable (which indeed most is) why isnt it fixed? lot of the problems are so obvious (sound quality/music problems) that the first testrun shouldve shown em. using the wrong maps is 100% avoidable. stuff like that will piss people off in any event . if that event is the aspiring #1 with way way more exposure and even costs money then we get angry people. ofc such extreme posts like "fire evryone!" are bullshit. but in the end its just the voice of a pissed off (potential) customer and in the sometimes very ugly / unreasonable looking posts is in the end some valuable feedback. On April 22 2011 08:06 Staboteur wrote: I meant to send this message out last night while listening to SotG but I was practically sleeping, so here, have it now: iNcontroL, you're an idiot for thinking your hype of the NASL was a mistake. Maybe you're just saying that to appease the masses that would love to see iNcontroL be wrong and burn, but if you're truly serious about regarding that as a mistake, I don't think you're being honest with yourself. I, among I assume many others, would never have even checked out the NASL if it wasn't hyped to the level of the second coming of Jesus. Like many other tournaments, it wouldn't have raised even the idea of it being worthy of watching, and like... say, the CftC, or SPL or ZOTAC cup or any other one of the "events" that pops up on the sidebar of TL.net that I've neither heard anything about or have any background on. And don't watch. If it wasn't hyped like the second coming of Jesus, I never would've given it a first glance, let alone a second or third. Even if it doesn't end up living up to its hype, and ends up more like the eighteenth coming of the Kool-Aid Guy, I still have at least watched some of the NASL, garnered some level of interest and have reason to watch again. Like any TV show, I've seen an episode or two and now have a part of the story, and a reason to watch more. The hype gave the NASL some footing as a worthy candidate for spectators' much-contested viewing time, and though it doesn't actually make the spectators able to shit rainbows (as you promised), it's still a good show. TL:DR; Haters gonna hate because they can't shit rainbows, the NASL will never live up to the hype, but the hype has helped the NASL. the hype wasnt the problem yeah. well announcing the best production maybe was but thats minor. overall no doubt it had HUGE benefits for the NASL. all the shit they now get is from people that care about the nasl. that says enough. only thing bad about it is that incontrol exposed himself so much and now is in a terrible spot where he gets all the shit and has to apologize all day (and i we all know that he changed alot in the last few months...). the problem is the execution. and if they hosted a free test season or just a small 8 man tournament to really test things stuff wouldve gone better and people wouldnt be that angry. instead they did one showmatch which "failed" (already huge criticism there) and then just launched the league some months later without really improving much. as i said above, coming out with a real test and saying " look this is what we got. help us improve!" and then launching with a ready product wouldve resulted in way different reactions then the " yo we got problems but we launch anyways. oh also give us your money" they did. need to stop editing. as you can see im quite passionate about the whole nasl thing since it has the potential to be so great but at the same time im very dissapointed about lots of things. :/ | ||
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Staboteur
Canada1873 Posts
iNcontroL, you're an idiot for thinking your hype of the NASL was a mistake. Maybe you're just saying that to appease the masses that would love to see iNcontroL be wrong and burn, but if you're truly serious about regarding that as a mistake, I don't think you're being honest with yourself. I, among I assume many others, would never have even checked out the NASL if it wasn't hyped to the level of the second coming of Jesus. Like many other tournaments, it wouldn't have raised even the idea of it being worthy of watching, and like... say, the CftC, or SPL or ZOTAC cup or any other one of the "events" that pops up on the sidebar of TL.net that I've neither heard anything about or have any background on. And don't watch. If it wasn't hyped like the second coming of Jesus, I never would've given it a first glance, let alone a second or third. Even if it doesn't end up living up to its hype, and ends up more like the eighteenth coming of the Kool-Aid Guy, I still have at least watched some of the NASL, garnered some level of interest and have reason to watch again. Like any TV show, I've seen an episode or two and now have a part of the story, and a reason to watch more. The hype gave the NASL some footing as a worthy candidate for spectators' much-contested viewing time, and though it doesn't actually make the spectators able to shit rainbows (as you promised), it's still a good show. TL:DR; Haters gonna hate because they can't shit rainbows, the NASL will never live up to the hype, but the hype has helped the NASL. | ||
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Defacer
Canada5052 Posts
He did and is doing an excellent fucking job. They brought him aboard to hype the league, and he did that. He's not supposed to be their PR agent, but because he's a public figure in the community he's been forced to respond to criticism directly, which he's handling very well. It's the rest of the production that's having issues. InControl didn't let anyone down -- the NASL did. Here's a question: Why aren't people trying to shit on DJ Wheat or JP or Day 9 for their involvement in the epic fail that was MLG Dallas? Why aren't people 'demanding' answers from them? I'm sure Day 9, DJ Wheat and JP do their best and like working for MLG, but they don't see themselves as being responsible for the ultimate success or failure of MLG. InControl is the type of guy that wants more responsibility. You can tell he takes work personally, and sees responsibility as an award, not a curse. He's responding to criticism and mistakes that he literally has no control over. He's a real team player. Trust me, I would LOVE to work with a guy like InControl. | ||
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willyireland
United Kingdom43 Posts
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IdrA
United States11541 Posts
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Absolutionn
United States512 Posts
On April 22 2011 10:17 IdrA wrote: http://shop.steelseries.com/us/index.php/audio-us/steelseries-siberia-in-ear-headset.html Would you, or anyone else who owns these, recommend them? How comfortable are they | ||
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kytten
United States163 Posts
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NonY
8751 Posts
Here's your hype. If reddit wasn't down, I'm sure there'd be an explosion of praise over there too. The most hardcore people post on and read forums, and they have more casual friends who look at them as that hardcore SC2 guy and respect his opinion, and those friends in turn have even more casual friends that respect their opinions, and by word of mouth before you know it probably 25k+ people are aware of IPL's successful debut within 24 hours of their first cast, no pre-hype necessary. I mean honestly I really find it hard to believe people posting on forums cannot respect the power of the internet to spread a message quickly. You REALLY think the NASL of all leagues, which is so protracted, needs a ton of pre-hype to succeed? There's no way 9+ weeks would go by, and an in-person final 16, and $100k prize pool given out, without people having a chance to hear about it and check it out. And that was gonna happen guaranteed 3 times no matter what, with a record-breaking $200k given out the 3rd time. This wasn't gonna slip by unnoticed. Have a little self-respect as a community here. Pre-hype is completely superfluous in this situation. | ||
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drp223
United States170 Posts
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quentel
349 Posts
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Kisra
United Kingdom466 Posts
On April 22 2011 11:49 Liquid`Tyler wrote: + Show Spoiler + The hype can come after some successful broadcasts and you'll hear about it and get on board and enjoy it. From the start they funded and planned three full seasons so it's not like they needed huge numbers on day one to work on getting a second season. Let the hardcore folks and the hipsters be there at day one for everything, and let content filter through them. If you can choose between following the hype of thousands of objective fans who have actually seen the league OR following the hype from people who work for the league and haven't even seen the league yet, which do you choose? I mean, if you're passionate enough about the game then you're gonna check everything out whether there's hype or not. But if you don't have time or aren't interested enough, then you should listen to the community, not the promoters. Here's your hype. If reddit wasn't down, I'm sure there'd be an explosion of praise over there too. The most hardcore people post on and read forums, and they have more casual friends who look at them as that hardcore SC2 guy and respect his opinion, and those friends in turn have even more casual friends that respect their opinions, and by word of mouth before you know it probably 25k+ people are aware of IPL's successful debut within 24 hours of their first cast, no pre-hype necessary. I mean honestly I really find it hard to believe people posting on forums cannot respect the power of the internet to spread a message quickly. You REALLY think the NASL of all leagues, which is so protracted, needs a ton of pre-hype to succeed? There's no way 9+ weeks would go by, and an in-person final 16, and $100k prize pool given out, without people having a chance to hear about it and check it out. And that was gonna happen guaranteed 3 times no matter what, with a record-breaking $200k given out the 3rd time. This wasn't gonna slip by unnoticed. Have a little self-respect as a community here. Pre-hype is completely superfluous in this situation. I agree on a lot of points, but I want to take it a step further in trying to explain the reaction the NASL has got. The internet is great for getting word out fast, but it can also be a very negative environment. That's partially human nature - when everything is good, not many people go and post "Hey thats really awesome" (which is part of the reason why half my posts are "thats awesome" to try and be some kind of balance, anyway...) - when stuff goes bad, though, even for a few seconds, posts start popping up. So when iNcontroL promises an amazing tournament and a huge leap forward for the North American SC2 scene (and it still is), a lot of people get excited, but a lot of people get skeptical. For some reason forums can foster some rather bileous people, who just love to see drama, or people fail, or anything. If you leaf through the NASL Day 2-2 thread there's a bunch of people talking about Cruncher being shit on (which he wasn't) purely because people seem to hunt for the negative. So when NASL doesn't live up to what iNc said - or at least inferred it as - I'm not too surprised when a few people get grumpy. ... That said, I am shocked at the volume of negativity. Most of the time the NASL works pretty well, you get to watch some of the best players in the world playing each other for a huge prize pool. Every day there's improvements. Every day there's communication from the people involved. Very few people mention this, and for some reason just look for reasons to trash iNcontroL or bash the NASL I'm doubly surprised at the volume of negativity from the community which, as far as I understand it, kept the Brood War scene in the West alive for a long time. It might just be the influx of new blood, but it feels like a weird attitude change. I'll end my post by saying I don't think iNcontroL did anything wrong. What he, and Russ, and everyone else involved has made is something special. The work they put in is visible day after day. There's mistakes, sure, but they started ambitious and they've learned from that. For some reason every time someone mentions the NASL, someone else seems to want to bash it... ... and personally I find that a bit saddening. The excuse 'We just want them to improve' doesn't fly when you see some of the comments that get posted in the Live Report thread, or in the JTV chat (please turn that off, its awful to read). Support the NASL. Help build something that can last, and grow, and become a major force in eSports. Make every post about it constructive. Mention the bad, sure, but don't be rude. Praise the good. Enjoy the games. And in the end, have fun. | ||
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MrCon
France29748 Posts
Not telling your friends that a movie is the best your ever seen is one of the fundamental friendship rules =) | ||
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Defacer
Canada5052 Posts
On April 22 2011 11:59 quentel wrote: The IPL's success tonight further vindicates the suggestions Tyler has been giving for a few days now. I agree, it's easy to appear insightful when passing judgement from the confines of an ivory tower. Oh SNAP! | ||
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ImHuko
United States996 Posts
I am glad IGN got better numbers than NASL, those street fighter-esque things were so cool. Also I love the shots the IGN guys took on NASL (Don't know if Incontrol actually noticed cause no one said anything). After seeing IGN tournament, it really made me think about the "throwing money at the problem" when I watch NASL | ||
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IdrA
United States11541 Posts
On April 22 2011 10:22 Absolutionn wrote: Would you, or anyone else who owns these, recommend them? How comfortable are they theyre amazingly comfortable, im not really an audiophile but the sound quality is great for me. | ||
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