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On February 23 2011 17:21 Defacer wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 17:07 SushilS wrote:On February 23 2011 16:30 Cynoks wrote:On February 23 2011 16:26 mnofstl007 wrote:On February 23 2011 16:07 SushilS wrote:Oh Good grief Geoff, can you tell IdrA to stop calling a good game broken.With the old maps, maybe. Now that the new maps are here even Nestea(biggest QQer in Korea) has called ZvT balanced.(ZvP maybe not so much...) (Edit  You being an EG member and as an NASL rep, having your flagship player call ZvT broken is making the lot of you look like a bunch of dumb goons. Hope you look into this. I think team EG would completely disagree with you. I doubt that they think one of their best players' opinions make them sound like a dumb goon. Maybe the nobody who disagrees with him, or who bases his argument off of what someone else says, and not his own findings, is the one sounding like a dumb goon. Are you kidding???? Starcraft 2 players ARE NOT allowed to have opinions!?!!?!?!?!? IT IS UNPROFESSIONAL!!!! /end humor Its funny that your fail sarcasm further illustrates my point. Its fine to have an opinion that you keep within closed circles. However it is TERRIBLY UNPROFESSIONAL to disseminate it widely, when the team and enterprises that support you exist fot the very reason you are shitting on. Imagine if any respected sportsperson were to do something similar. He'd be booted out of the team he was playing for in no time. + Show Spoiler +Lol. Imagine if Michael Schumacher called F1 broken(which it is!). You think he would be acting in Ferraris best interests??? And @I love Bacon: Im not saying the game is balanced or imba. I have no right to say anything like that... All I'm saying is that IdrA should not be shooting his mouth off about the game being broken in public. I dunno bout you guys but I've lately been bringing in new people to experience the awesomeness that is SC2 E-sports, and its a hard knock life as it is; without NASL and EG's star player calling the game stupid and broken(Please note: without having practiced on the new maps as he himself admits!) It essentially, logically, works out to: you must be stupid to pay 25$ to watch a game where even the star player publicly acknowledges that the game is broken. And why listen to me? Geoff himself tells IdrA during that leaked gosucoaching cast that some of the things IdrA says to him are not meant for public hearing. So please stop being confrontational and get a different perspective for a change maybe... At the end of the day, no matter how broken or imba the game actually is, there are a lot of people putting their money and support behind IdrA to do the best he can to win. I know SOTG is more a casual, roundtable discussion show, but this isn't kind of thing that you want your sponsors to catch wind of. I'm a designer manager, and have a pretty good relationship with my staff. One of my staff and I were shooting the shit, and out of the blue he started complaining about how his heart wasn't in it anymore; he thought the industry was bullshit, he stopped trying years ago, etc. I didn't fire him right away, but when the company needed each department to lay off an employee, the choice was pretty obvious. IdrA is entitled to his opinion, and it's okay to be frustrated -- its pretty normal with any job. But you're not allow to NOT care. The simple fact is that he is being paid to win, regardless of how much of an uphill climb it might be. Sounds like someone needs to remind him that he literally has one of the best jobs in the world. He plays video games for a living. If he thinks being a zerg is tough, he should try getting a real job.
I was going to go to sleep, but I have to respond to this. It's just all kinds of wrong. If you suggested that this employee get laid off, was he also the best worker on your team so you're hurting company/team productivity? If so, that was a poor choice. The worker's productivity is key, not his motivation. Do you think everybody on the planet shows up to their job enthusiastic and ready to tackle the new challenges that day brings? Shit no, and IdrA is not some worker bee middling around. He is one of the best players in the world and the best player on EG. Getting rid of him for any reason other than underperforming is a mistake, and arguably, even that is given what a figure he is.
Also, any job that takes a legitimate amount of time or skill is still a job. If somebody tells you otherwise, they're lying. I've had a handful of jobs in my time and the 2 biggest examples would be working in construction and playing poker. Guess what, I used to love poker... that didn't make it fun as a job. All jobs have their ups and downs, and making some ridiculous statement like telling him to get a real job (note, his hours on the B team were 50% longer than a standard work day) brings nothing to the table.
You're a design manager? Go get a real job at the saw mill.
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On February 23 2011 17:36 Defacer wrote:
Actually, people aren't really critiquing IdrA for having an honest opinion. It's more a general concern that he should cover his own ass for the sake of his career and his team.
For example, I'm sure JP has a lot of opinions about MLG that he keeps to himself. GOOD. He can't keep doing SOTGs if he's homeless.
Anyone who has any real responsibility where they work would probably agree.
My question then is, why do you (not you personally, just in general) need to be concerned with whether he should be covering his ass for the sake of his career or his team? Shouldn't he himself be concerned with what he says? Isn't he a grown man? Shouldn't his team be concerned if they are getting "bad PR" from what he says?
These are meant to be rhetorical questions btw, but I doubt they'll be received that way. =)
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I'm glad Idra is back to practicing. He's one of my favorite players to watch, and he has some upgrade timings to work on in his matchups(30+ min games and he'd be at 1/1 or something while MVP/Jinro were 3/3 and it just gets worse for him the longer the game progresses which is counter-intuitive to his macro style). Here's hoping he rocks IEM.
HuK's ceremony had no place on GOMtv. Do all the Korean viewers really care that he wants haters that no one even knows he or Kelly has to shut up? It's just gonna get misinterpreted and make him look bad :/ That's just going to give him more haters if anything.
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I really don't want to go through these last pages of fighting so I does anyone know if it's going to be uploaded soon? Not really sure when the show ended, I just assume it did because of the new complaining/fighting topics.
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how long till it's uploaded?
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On February 23 2011 17:54 Pibacc wrote:
how long till it's uploaded?
it will be announced
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On February 23 2011 16:53 Defacer wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 16:36 I_Love_Bacon wrote:On February 23 2011 16:30 Cynoks wrote:On February 23 2011 16:26 mnofstl007 wrote:On February 23 2011 16:07 SushilS wrote:Oh Good grief Geoff, can you tell IdrA to stop calling a good game broken.With the old maps, maybe. Now that the new maps are here even Nestea(biggest QQer in Korea) has called ZvT balanced.(ZvP maybe not so much...) (Edit You being an EG member and as an NASL rep, having your flagship player call ZvT broken is making the lot of you look like a bunch of dumb goons. Hope you look into this. I think team EG would completely disagree with you. I doubt that they think one of their best players' opinions make them sound like a dumb goon. Maybe the nobody who disagrees with him, or who bases his argument off of what someone else says, and not his own findings, is the one sounding like a dumb goon. Are you kidding???? Starcraft 2 players ARE NOT allowed to have opinions!?!!?!?!?!? IT IS UNPROFESSIONAL!!!! /end humor Don't forget, Nestea can have an opinion which is completely valid... IdrA however, can not. Yeah yeah yeah, all Zergs complain. But IdrA not practicing for a $1500 showmatch is kind of bad. He still has an obligation to his team and himself to, you know ... care.
Not so simple. 3 of the maps were on the new GSL maps and IdrA has no practice partners. Also, IdrA has been playing the game since the release of the beta, achieved many accolades and won many tournaments. If he says the game is broken, there's a good chance it is. Now like he said during SOTG, its not politically correct. It would be 100 x better if he said what INC said instead (something along the lines of "Zerg is the hard race and most difficult to be consistent but I will do my best and look forward to the patch") but you know what, this is his career and his livelihood - he better show some emotion.
Nestea does complain but he also has guys like MVP to practice with. The situation isnt as simple as "not practicing is unacceptable."
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Oh dear. Judging by the last 2 pages of the thread, I'm not sure I want to watch this episode.
I don't suppose Incontrol & co mentioned their little trashtalking stunt on his stream during the first Code A day. -_-
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On February 23 2011 17:59 Angelbelow wrote:
Not so simple. 3 of the maps were on the new GSL maps and IdrA has no practice partners.
That's a moot point since he didn't practice at all isn't it?
Also, IdrA has been playing the game since the release of the beta, achieved many accolades and won many tournaments.
By many, you mean two? Unless you counting the Hello, Goodbye tournament(which I don't think you should, but whatever) in which it's three. I did not know many was an adequate and popular substitute for three.
If he says the game is broken, there's a good chance it is.
Not really, Idra has complained about balance since the dawn of man. Unless Idra's winning everything, something is imbalanced according to him.
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On February 23 2011 17:59 Angelbelow wrote:
If he says the game is broken, there's a good chance it is.
That's the core problem - I couldn't care less when pros complain about their respective race, many have done it in the past. Genius was supposed to be race-switching months ago, according to Cloud you just can't win with terran, etc.
Nevertheless the problem is, that people actually BELIEVE it and take it SERIOUSLY. Then they stop trying themselves and go to the strategy-section complaining about imba this imba that. Annoying.
On the whole HuK-thing: if I were him I wouldn't have done the ceremony because many viewers probably don't know the background...therefore they may think it was meant demeaning towards his opponent etc. Still, he is completely right on the topic itself. People seriously have to stop bitching about him being seeded in code A so much. Now that he has 2-0ed a player who qualified, hopefully this stops.
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On February 23 2011 16:11 Maynarde wrote:Thank you guys, great episode. I read earlier suggestions that Nony should talk more I agree he's funny as hell  ... Maybe he's quietly thinking about how to be hilarious?
Tyler picks his spots really well. When he has something to say, he says it, and its usually pretty great. Incontrol and JP by contrast say a lot of words.
Also glad to be introduced to the greatness that is KLAZART.
Truly great that guy, it's a shame he retired. I think there's a void there in English casters after Tastosis and Day[9] and he'd easily fill that, provided he was decent in a live situation. Idk.
I tell you what though. I never played Brood War really... don't think i ever owned the game til a couple of years back (had to do the campaigns for storyline). But watching Boxer v Flash casted by Klazart really helped me in terms of understanding how BW worked.
So good.
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So was Tyler's twitter announcement that he'd be making an announcement with regards to the NASL just a troll? I don't have time to listen to the cast (even if it were available), so could anyone enlighten me?
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On February 23 2011 18:14 sleepingdog wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 17:59 Angelbelow wrote:
If he says the game is broken, there's a good chance it is. That's the core problem - I couldn't care less when pros complain about their respective race, many have done it in the past. Genius was supposed to be race-switching months ago, according to Cloud you just can't win with terran, etc. Nevertheless the problem is, that people actually BELIEVE it and take it SERIOUSLY. Then they stop trying themselves and go to the strategy-section complaining about imba this imba that. Annoying.
I do agree that its annoying. I personally dont like it either, but if you see it from their perspective, its understandable to me. I would prefer for them to be politically correct too but i dunno if I would be if I were in their shoes.
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On February 23 2011 17:38 I_Love_Bacon wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 17:21 Defacer wrote:On February 23 2011 17:07 SushilS wrote:On February 23 2011 16:30 Cynoks wrote:On February 23 2011 16:26 mnofstl007 wrote:On February 23 2011 16:07 SushilS wrote:Oh Good grief Geoff, can you tell IdrA to stop calling a good game broken.With the old maps, maybe. Now that the new maps are here even Nestea(biggest QQer in Korea) has called ZvT balanced.(ZvP maybe not so much...) (Edit You being an EG member and as an NASL rep, having your flagship player call ZvT broken is making the lot of you look like a bunch of dumb goons. Hope you look into this. I think team EG would completely disagree with you. I doubt that they think one of their best players' opinions make them sound like a dumb goon. Maybe the nobody who disagrees with him, or who bases his argument off of what someone else says, and not his own findings, is the one sounding like a dumb goon. Are you kidding???? Starcraft 2 players ARE NOT allowed to have opinions!?!!?!?!?!? IT IS UNPROFESSIONAL!!!! /end humor Its funny that your fail sarcasm further illustrates my point. Its fine to have an opinion that you keep within closed circles. However it is TERRIBLY UNPROFESSIONAL to disseminate it widely, when the team and enterprises that support you exist fot the very reason you are shitting on. Imagine if any respected sportsperson were to do something similar. He'd be booted out of the team he was playing for in no time. + Show Spoiler +Lol. Imagine if Michael Schumacher called F1 broken(which it is!). You think he would be acting in Ferraris best interests??? And @I love Bacon: Im not saying the game is balanced or imba. I have no right to say anything like that... All I'm saying is that IdrA should not be shooting his mouth off about the game being broken in public. I dunno bout you guys but I've lately been bringing in new people to experience the awesomeness that is SC2 E-sports, and its a hard knock life as it is; without NASL and EG's star player calling the game stupid and broken(Please note: without having practiced on the new maps as he himself admits!) It essentially, logically, works out to: you must be stupid to pay 25$ to watch a game where even the star player publicly acknowledges that the game is broken. And why listen to me? Geoff himself tells IdrA during that leaked gosucoaching cast that some of the things IdrA says to him are not meant for public hearing. So please stop being confrontational and get a different perspective for a change maybe... At the end of the day, no matter how broken or imba the game actually is, there are a lot of people putting their money and support behind IdrA to do the best he can to win. I know SOTG is more a casual, roundtable discussion show, but this isn't kind of thing that you want your sponsors to catch wind of. I'm a designer manager, and have a pretty good relationship with my staff. One of my staff and I were shooting the shit, and out of the blue he started complaining about how his heart wasn't in it anymore; he thought the industry was bullshit, he stopped trying years ago, etc. I didn't fire him right away, but when the company needed each department to lay off an employee, the choice was pretty obvious. IdrA is entitled to his opinion, and it's okay to be frustrated -- its pretty normal with any job. But you're not allow to NOT care. The simple fact is that he is being paid to win, regardless of how much of an uphill climb it might be. Sounds like someone needs to remind him that he literally has one of the best jobs in the world. He plays video games for a living. If he thinks being a zerg is tough, he should try getting a real job. I was going to go to sleep, but I have to respond to this. It's just all kinds of wrong. If you suggested that this employee get laid off, was he also the best worker on your team so you're hurting company/team productivity? If so, that was a poor choice. The worker's productivity is key, not his motivation. Do you think everybody on the planet shows up to their job enthusiastic and ready to tackle the new challenges that day brings? Shit no, and IdrA is not some worker bee middling around. He is one of the best players in the world and the best player on EG. Getting rid of him for any reason other than underperforming is a mistake, and arguably, even that is given what a figure he is. Also, any job that takes a legitimate amount of time or skill is still a job. If somebody tells you otherwise, they're lying. I've had a handful of jobs in my time and the 2 biggest examples would be working in construction and playing poker. Guess what, I used to love poker... that didn't make it fun as a job. All jobs have their ups and downs, and making some ridiculous statement like telling him to get a real job (note, his hours on the B team were 50% longer than a standard work day) brings nothing to the table. You're a design manager? Go get a real job at the saw mill.
1) Stop over-reacting.
2) In regards to the guy I laid off, his attitude was hurting productivity. Design is a collaborative effort. And he certainly didn't make the people around him any better, did nothing but complain and made making even the simplest team decision unbearable. Laying him off made everyone else's jobs easier and it was one of the best decisions I ever made.
3) Under-performing is one thing. Admitting you're under-performing because you're not trying makes you and your team look bad, even if it's a gross exaggeration (I'm sure IdrA still practices more than the average North America pro).
4) Construction is tough, depending on the company and the project.
Playing poker and videogames is challenging, in the sense that it requires a lot of commitment and practice to succeed. I'm sure it can feel like a grind at times, especially if you're in a slump.
Of course being on a Korean pro team is slog, no argument here.
But Idra is in a nice spot right now with EG. It's way easier to deal with a build order or timing that doesn't work than it is to deal with a PERSON that doesn't work. Not to mention you get to work your own hours. And from your home. And be your own boss without the burden of managing other people.
There are a lot of things worse than playing video games for a living. The idea that you're trying to argue otherwise means that you've taken some of your life experiences for granted, to be honest.
Or let's but it this way: Is being a pro-gamer harder than being a barista at Starbucks. Maybe. Is it better? HELL YES.
5) Sawmill. Please. You've obviously never managed a real project or had been given any real responsibility.
I would LOVE to be at the sawmill right now. Seriously. If you hear of any openings let me know.
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On February 23 2011 16:56 Durn wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 16:51 Stiver wrote:
As a master league Zerg player, I have the right, privilege and duty! to whole heartedly agree with Idra.
I would argue two players of similar skill levels, The zerg will never be the favor to win. Think that's just how Starcraft II Is. Skill is such an indefinite thing though. I mean this by like... there is no unit by which to measure skill. So you can't be like... Jinro is 4mg of skill and IdrA is also 4mg of skill, thusly we can accurately compare their matchups and determine that although they are of equal skill per mg, Jinro will win outright. Both players excel at different things and have room for improvement in different areas. This goes across all matchups and all players. To try and quantify it so specifically is ridiculous...
you can have a rough determination of skill based on ladder success & tournament wins/placement.
Idra and Jinro both won an MLG, and have had similar placement/success in the GSL. You cannot tell me that is an indicator that they are similarly skilled in the game of Starcraft.
No it isn't a concrete numerical value. But that is not what I was getting at.
Despite the fact I could both see them winning any top level tournament equally, if you put them in a show match there is no situation where I would put money on Idra because of how good of a player Jinro is and how strong terran is.
At least, that's my opinion on the matter
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On February 23 2011 17:59 Angelbelow wrote:
Also, IdrA has been playing the game since the release of the beta, achieved many accolades and won many tournaments. If he says the game is broken, there's a good chance it is.
Except that idra has complained non-stop from practically day one that the game was broken. "What would it be like if Protoss units cost money?" "I wouldn't play Terran because i have self-respect", not just recently. He was complaining WHILE he was winning everything, and continues to complain to this day.
And it's not just SC2, either. He played Terran in BW, and he bitched about Protoss being OP and how UP Terran was. "i suppose right clicking on goliaths would seem pretty revolutionary to a protoss user", "when proxy bbs into 2 port wraith is the best bet tvp something is definitely wrong", "id win a lot more and be a lot less angry if i were toss", "a unit with infinite mana that makes you invincible and makes all the enemy units die in one hit and he calls it balanced." (regarding defilers, a Zerg unit), etc., etc. etc.
Eventually people are going to get tired of it. And isn't it odd how every race idra plays is the worst race in the game?
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On February 23 2011 17:46 Bayyne wrote:Show nested quote +On February 23 2011 17:36 Defacer wrote:
Actually, people aren't really critiquing IdrA for having an honest opinion. It's more a general concern that he should cover his own ass for the sake of his career and his team.
For example, I'm sure JP has a lot of opinions about MLG that he keeps to himself. GOOD. He can't keep doing SOTGs if he's homeless.
Anyone who has any real responsibility where they work would probably agree. My question then is, why do you (not you personally, just in general) need to be concerned with whether he should be covering his ass for the sake of his career or his team? Shouldn't he himself be concerned with what he says? Isn't he a grown man? Shouldn't his team be concerned if they are getting "bad PR" from what he says? These are meant to be rhetorical questions btw, but I doubt they'll be received that way. =)
Nope, your questions will not be received as rhetorical.
I'm a fan of his game, and team, and hope they succeed.
It's like being a fan of any sport, but in StarCraft, it's weird. The players, the casters, the organizers, are all still figuring out what the e-sport industry is and how it should work. So as a fan, you end up commenting on weird things like this.
But hey, fuck it. These guys can do whatever they want.
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On February 23 2011 18:22 Stiver wrote:
Idra and Jinro both won an MLG, and have had similar placement/success in the GSL.
Actually, their placement and success in GSL isn't similar by any stretch of the imagination.
There's only so many times Idra can spin the whole story and retain credibility, and it's really getting stale now. Now that he got to play on better maps and didn't face any early game all-ins, it turns out that he "didn't practice" and "if the skill is similar, Terran will be the favorite to win".
July says hi.
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july went all in both games basically, i dont think that really says much.
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On February 23 2011 18:43 Zaros wrote:
july went all in both games basically, i dont think that really says much.
So? July also won twice, and I think that says more than enough considering the strength of his opponent.
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EPT
