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On July 02 2012 18:43 4ZakeN87 wrote:
So instead we get a incontrol message saying, that we are threatening Esports and "fuck you forever" in response to that. Well thank you sir, how very nice of you. I guess he was tilted pretty hard by then, but still. Okay there was a we did bad somewhere in there to, but.. well you usually do not write "fuck you forever" and "sorry we did a mistake" in the same message. The "sorry we did a mistake" part sounds somehow a little less genuine then.
The "sorry for the mistakes" was 100% genuine except for iNcontroL the mistake was making their bad attitude so clear and obvious. Better to keep avilo at a distance and mock him and insult him and then if anyone gets upset you have the "hey I'm only kidding defense" to fall back on. The mistake, in his eyes, was going beyond the point where he could laugh it off.
Funny thing is after SotG 71 I defended iNcontroL to avilo. 'Hey look he tried to get you on the show. Hey look he promoted your stream. Whatever happened in the past, maybe he's trying to make up for it now.' When avilo was called on Ep 72 and asked iNcontroL about it and that awkward silence followed just imagine if Geoff had said something like "Cmon I'm just having some fun at your expense." But he's subsequently made it clear that would have been a lie and he was unprepared.
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nice to see EG being called out as a bunch of ignorant loud-mouths who know shit all about the game
this is what happens when you try have balance discussion with people who base their careers on drama and "producing product" then actually trying to win tourneys and improve their game
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On July 02 2012 23:29 Sphen5117 wrote:
Yeah, cause that won't do anything like reduce the capital being invested into the industry or anything.
Because the only choices are giving money to EG or not giving money at all, eh?
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On July 03 2012 01:36 dvorakftw wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2012 23:29 Sphen5117 wrote:
Yeah, cause that won't do anything like reduce the capital being invested into the industry or anything. Because the only choices are giving money to EG or not giving money at all, eh?
That is how it normally works. You could try to take money from them by making them look bad. However, that will only work on the short term, as their sponsors will slowly catch on that most of the people sending them angry emails likely were not going to buy their stuff anyways.
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On July 02 2012 17:47 TechNoTrance wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2012 17:07 tdt wrote:
Funny idra calling ppl terrible... guess its all relative eh? That is pretty shallow logic seeing as how Idra was once a top pro, only recently slumping (while still now being a top foreigner). I'm not quite sure how you can group Idra and Avilo (who is barely relevent besides causing drama) together as "terrible". That's some logic ya got there.
I just thought it was fuuny a player with <40% tlpd recent w/r calling another terrible, especially a top GM.
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On July 03 2012 01:41 tdt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2012 17:47 TechNoTrance wrote:On July 02 2012 17:07 tdt wrote:
Funny idra calling ppl terrible... guess its all relative eh? That is pretty shallow logic seeing as how Idra was once a top pro, only recently slumping (while still now being a top foreigner). I'm not quite sure how you can group Idra and Avilo (who is barely relevent besides causing drama) together as "terrible". That's some logic ya got there. I just thought it was fuuny a player with <40% tlpd recent w/r calling another terrible, especially a top GM.
Idra has won or placed far higher in multipule tournaments over the years in both SC2 and BW. Avilo has not, though could in the future. Being in a slump is part of being a professional. Every player has them and it does not diminish their previous accomplishments.
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I don't get all the fuss. Idra and QXC had a good discussion about TvZ. They're both high end level players of those races in the US. QXC is perfectly entitled as a top level US Terran to say why he feels the matchup is broken, and Idra gave good responses as to how Terran should play from his own experiences of losing to Terran when he plays the mass queen style.
Then Avilo, a no-name NA Terran who thinks he's better than he is, comes in and essentially says the same things QXC did but with far more exaggeration. Idra being Idra, he calls him bad, despite giving the same responses he did to QXC.
"queen buff allows Zerg to get 80 drones unchallenged"
"there are other ways to pressure Zerg without reactor hellion openings... you'd realise that if you weren't fucking terrible".
Cut out the "fucking terrible" bit and the response is still sensible and something Terrans have to realise.
Look at the WCS UK as an example. DeMuslim has been whining about Zerg on his stream since the patch. He takes Idra's advice and starts playing super greedy with a quick 3 CCs, and hey presto he starts winning. Then he loses to an all-in because he played too greedy. Which is just StarCraft in essence.
In the end I think people are overreacting about this. Maybe they didn't need to treat Avilo so poorly, but he was contributing nothing QXC hadn't already said and Idra hadn't already argued against. His call was unnecessary and should never have happened in the first place. When he starts winning tournaments, then he can be a guest on the show. But until then he has no right to talk about the State of the Game.
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This was a very good TvZ discussion, thank you JP, Idra, QXC and the crew, very much enjoyed this up to the point Avilo was brought on (I'm not into drama).
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On July 03 2012 01:41 tdt wrote:Show nested quote +On July 02 2012 17:47 TechNoTrance wrote:On July 02 2012 17:07 tdt wrote:
Funny idra calling ppl terrible... guess its all relative eh? That is pretty shallow logic seeing as how Idra was once a top pro, only recently slumping (while still now being a top foreigner). I'm not quite sure how you can group Idra and Avilo (who is barely relevent besides causing drama) together as "terrible". That's some logic ya got there. I just thought it was fuuny a player with <40% tlpd recent w/r calling another terrible, especially a top GM.
Ok, but compared to Idra, Avilo is still terrible, slump or not. I just find calling someone terrible who is still better than most foreigners when he slumps is silly. Unless of couse you didn't actually know what the word "relative" meant in that context and didn't mean to imply that Idra was "terrible" (which is exactly what you said).
Saying Idra shouldn't call someone bad while slumping is one thing, but calling him terrible is ridiculous (though likely you misused that word).
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Its the show, JP would not give him a place in the show if he would not expect this to happen. And its good, people are talking about it. So everything worked great.
Awesome was for sure, Idra explaining what a Terran can do against Zerg and listen to basically same arguments he used in Past from Zerg point of view to qq. Hope we will see a terran player flaming him for picking zerg as a race. You need a Terran who really not wins, maybe lets make this a public releation action by EG himself. You have for sure one terran who is overrated.
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On July 03 2012 01:45 Plansix wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2012 01:41 tdt wrote:On July 02 2012 17:47 TechNoTrance wrote:On July 02 2012 17:07 tdt wrote:
Funny idra calling ppl terrible... guess its all relative eh? That is pretty shallow logic seeing as how Idra was once a top pro, only recently slumping (while still now being a top foreigner). I'm not quite sure how you can group Idra and Avilo (who is barely relevent besides causing drama) together as "terrible". That's some logic ya got there. I just thought it was fuuny a player with <40% tlpd recent w/r calling another terrible, especially a top GM. Idra has won or placed far higher in multipule tournaments over the years in both SC2 and BW. Avilo has not, though could in the future. Being in a slump is part of being a professional. Every player has them and it does not diminish their previous accomplishments.
He has called nestea and mkp terrible as well.
Unless he has better performance then those two as well?
Besides the ones that are actually good don't need to talk others down.
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On July 03 2012 01:51 Larkin wrote:
Look at the WCS UK as an example. DeMuslim has been whining about Zerg on his stream since the patch. He takes Idra's advice and starts playing super greedy with a quick 3 CCs, and hey presto he starts winning.
First watch the games on Saturday to see DeMu taking IdrA's advice and getting roflstomped.
What did DeMu do to win on Sunday? In Game 1 he used a Jedi mind trick to make REcco float 1000+ minerals and 1000+ gas for several minutes from the 12 min mark on and to send 4 infestors straight into death at 14 minutes. Then in game 3 REcco decided to delay his 3rd until almost the 10 minute mark and still was able to start floating 2000 minerals by 15 minutes and 3000 minerals by 17 minutes and then made a questionable decision to use his mutas against DeMu's 3rd.
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On July 03 2012 04:12 Technique wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2012 01:45 Plansix wrote:On July 03 2012 01:41 tdt wrote:On July 02 2012 17:47 TechNoTrance wrote:On July 02 2012 17:07 tdt wrote:
Funny idra calling ppl terrible... guess its all relative eh? That is pretty shallow logic seeing as how Idra was once a top pro, only recently slumping (while still now being a top foreigner). I'm not quite sure how you can group Idra and Avilo (who is barely relevent besides causing drama) together as "terrible". That's some logic ya got there. I just thought it was fuuny a player with <40% tlpd recent w/r calling another terrible, especially a top GM. Idra has won or placed far higher in multipule tournaments over the years in both SC2 and BW. Avilo has not, though could in the future. Being in a slump is part of being a professional. Every player has them and it does not diminish their previous accomplishments. He has called nestea and mkp terrible as well. Unless he has better performance then those two as well? Besides the ones that are actually good don't need to talk others down.
He called nestea terrible when he WAS terrible, if you can remember the first season of GSL...
I'm pretty sure the whole MKP is terrible is kind of a joke now, altho yes he really thought it and was wrong about it.
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I actually agree with IdrA ... there is something about MKP's approach to the game that seems gimmicky and terrible.
I'm sure IdrA still has issues with Huk's style, even though they're teammates.
It may have less to do with whether or not guys like MKP or Huk are actually bad, but more to do with style and personal taste. IdrA doesn't strike me as the kind of guy that likes watching people play risky builds or make shortcuts to gain an advantage.
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On July 03 2012 05:06 Defacer wrote:
I actually agree with IdrA ... there is something about MKP's approach to the game that seems gimmicky and terrible.
I'm sure IdrA still has issues with Huk's style, even though they're teammates.
It may have less to do with whether or not guys like MKP or Huk are actually bad, but more to do with style and personal taste. IdrA doesn't strike me as the kind of guy that likes watching people play risky builds or make shortcuts to gain an advantage.
Well then Idra would be a terrible sc2 terran because thats what you gotta do to be succeful with Terran especially in the current metagame. You need to do some random stuff at times to keep your opponent honest.
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On July 03 2012 05:06 Defacer wrote:
I actually agree with IdrA ... there is something about MKP's approach to the game that seems gimmicky and terrible.
IdrA doesn't strike me as the kind of guy that likes watching people play risky builds or make shortcuts to gain an advantage.
Can you try and pinpoint it? Too much micro? Too much aggression? Too much innovation?
edit: Adding back in the line about risky builds so that isn't the reply
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On July 03 2012 05:06 Defacer wrote:
I actually agree with IdrA ... there is something about MKP's approach to the game that seems gimmicky and terrible.
I'm sure IdrA still has issues with Huk's style, even though they're teammates.
It may have less to do with whether or not guys like MKP or Huk are actually bad, but more to do with style and personal taste. IdrA doesn't strike me as the kind of guy that likes watching people play risky builds or make shortcuts to gain an advantage.
Idra doesn't realize that his style is actually the worst sort imaginable. People are just addicted to the idea that playing "standard" is somehow more honourable or skillful than being able to metagame/gimmick/all-in your opponent.
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Since it was brought up....
The guys tweet:
robert thomas @robbiekthomas
@SirScoots Would watch and I know you will say 'overreaction' but Incontrol/Idra on last sotg means I cannot support EG at this time. Sorry
I get his tweet, then go look at who he follows, which was myself, Geoff, and Greg.
My reply:
SirScoots @SirScoots
@robbiekthomas Underreaction, you should unfollow all things EG, myself included if they upset you so much.
My post was basic and did not even go into my thoughts on the episode. If you do not like what they did and therefore now all things EG (stupid logic btw), why follow us? I consider a follower someone who cares/supports what one says or posts etc. So why follow and support someone you dislike? Simple if you ask me. Was I supposed to kiss his ass and apologize for something that I feel needs no apology? Sorry, not that guy. FYI, he unfollowed me and I think Geoff, or Geoff blocked him, and he still follows Greg.
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On July 03 2012 05:11 dvorakftw wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2012 05:06 Defacer wrote:
I actually agree with IdrA ... there is something about MKP's approach to the game that seems gimmicky and terrible.
Can you try and pinpoint it? Too much micro? Too much aggression? Too much innovation?
Too much shit that makes no sense whatsoever and are sometimes compensate by amazing micro (and as of the last 6 month great macro).
For example, he played against White-ra at IPL who was going 3 robos colossus, MKP responded and stayed on pure marines with 20 ghost and absolutely no medivacs for 15 minutes.
In the code A ro24 in gsl, played on Ohana against yugioh who went for pure ling-infestors (up to like 15) and later ultralisk. MKP never made a ghost.
And if you look at his earlier days it's actually silly how much his decision-making was hurting him, there was a point where he was actually making only marines against infestor-blings and BFH-tanks.
On July 03 2012 05:12 Shiori wrote:Show nested quote +On July 03 2012 05:06 Defacer wrote:
I actually agree with IdrA ... there is something about MKP's approach to the game that seems gimmicky and terrible.
I'm sure IdrA still has issues with Huk's style, even though they're teammates.
It may have less to do with whether or not guys like MKP or Huk are actually bad, but more to do with style and personal taste. IdrA doesn't strike me as the kind of guy that likes watching people play risky builds or make shortcuts to gain an advantage.
Idra doesn't realize that his style is actually the worst sort imaginable. People are just addicted to the idea that playing "standard" is somehow more honourable or skillful than being able to metagame/gimmick/all-in your opponent.
IdrA isn't criticizing MKP for having a weird style or a wide range of builds, he stated numerous times (about Violet, Coca, MVP) that it's a very good thing to have those. He doesn't like MKP because he thinks his style just comes from poor understanding of the game.
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EPT
