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I just watched the video of STOG. Wth was that avilo situation.
I don't know him and since i am toss i don't have a strong opinion on the TvZ match up. And i have no idea if his opinion on TvZ makes any sense. But THIS is no way to treat a guest on the show. First Idra instults him very badly and then (JP?) drops him from the show without any word about it. i mean WTH did i just watch.
If avilo is kind of a flamer/annoying person or what ever then don't get him on the show.
But please treat your guests with respect. I think everyone on the show except qxc should apologize for this incident.
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You can have a different oppinion during a discussion without attaking each other if you're "mature" enough... These personal attacks were childish. Of course most of the community dont know how Idras and Avilos relationship is behind the scenes but thats exactly the problem because for most people this state of the game episode appeares to be a show where one person starts to offend another person pretty randomly.
To show that kind of stuff in a show isn't very professional.
If Starcraft should ever become as big and professional as mainstream sports (matches on regular tv with coverage and stuff) these kinds of things can't happen anymore. I dont want to be nitpicking but thats just true.
Either cut it out if something like this happens or act properly in the first place. You can hate each other in private. For some people things like this may be funny but a mature consumer maybe wants to hear avilos thoughts on it as well.
This post is not meant to be offensive against Idra
And mad props to QXC. He is very good for the show
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I know Avilo has made irrational arguments in the past, and he likes to complain, which colored peoples' attitudes of him, and I know he was making frustratingly poor arguments by the end there... but that was bullying, plain and simple. IdrA is 22 years old, JP and InControl are 26, but they acted like children in a high school locker room.
A lot of people are mad at JP for not preventing it, but he was in on it. In case not too many people noticed, he really clearly hid Avilo's video stream behind qxc's so he could throw on a stretched-out embarassing picture of the guy holding a stuffed animal. You could see the edges of his video stream before JP quickly covered it up to act like it wasn't working in the background.
I also just want to point out that Avilo's spiral into that circular non-argument happened after IdrA told him to shut the fuck up. He sounded more than a little flustered, being cornered by those people.
It looked like JP and incontrol started reading feedback soon after Avilo got the boot. You could really see it, and I think they realized that they'd crossed some lines.
And yeah, they did. They set out to publicly humiliate the guy in front of thousands of people in his own community. And in nothing like a light or joking way. Basically a 10th grade brow beating. Really, you think these guys weren't bullied or harassed for being pro gamers as kids? How many people in this community got a stomach knot watching that happen?
JP and incontrol kind of said sorry at the end, but I'm still not sure that I can watch this show in good conscience.
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hmm... I love this show, but this episode was some of the most immature shit i've ever seen.
On June 29 2012 22:08 LavaLava wrote:
I know Avilo has made irrational arguments in the past, and he likes to complain, which colored peoples' attitudes of him, and I know he was making frustratingly poor arguments by the end there... but that was bullying, plain and simple. IdrA is 22 years old, JP and InControl are 26, but they acted like children in a high school locker room.
A lot of people are mad at JP for not preventing it, but he was in on it. In case not too many people noticed, he really clearly hid Avilo's video stream behind qxc's so he could throw on a stretched-out embarassing picture of the guy holding a stuffed animal. You could see the edges of his video stream before JP quickly covered it up to act like it wasn't working in the background.
I also just want to point out that Avilo's spiral into that circular non-argument happened after IdrA told him to shut the fuck up. He sounded more than a little flustered, being cornered by those people.
It looked like JP and incontrol started reading feedback soon after Avilo got the boot. You could really see it, and I think they realized that they'd crossed some lines.
And yeah, they did. They set out to publicly humiliate the guy in front of thousands of people in his own community. And in nothing like a light or joking way. Basically a 10th grade brow beating. Really, you think these guys weren't bullied or harassed for being pro gamers as kids? How many people in this community got a stomach knot watching that happen?
JP and incontrol kind of said sorry at the end, but I'm still not sure that I can watch this show in good conscience.
Very well put. I've never seen people above the age of 15 do this kind of bullying. Especially not on a respected podcast.
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On June 29 2012 21:35 MCDayC wrote:
Make QXC a regular please, he's consistently great.
Take Idra out of the regulars please, he's consistently killing every non-shallow balance discussion with his personality. I like to hear interviews with Idra or hear his personal opinion on specific topics, because he is an intelligent person with a lot of insight who always speaks what he thinks and is a very honest person in general. But he is somehow unable to change his position and has to "win" every discussion and thats why I don't watch Inside the Game regularly and SOTG would be the next thing I won't watch regularly (which would be a shame, but my personal "problem"  ). It just doesn't fit into a Podcast with a handful of other people, you have to be a bit more open-minded for that in my opinion, especially if its a podcast with mostly close friends.
QXC on the other hand is almost too diplomatic, but I also think he is good. Sometimes I think he disagrees more with something than he is willing to publicly express, but in a podcast with so many other people thats not really a bad trait to have I think. He should be less theoretical though and focus more on the stuff that has actually been done in the game and focus his strategy theories more about how he thinks some strategies are worth tweaking (for example the mass bio high econ terran style).
Getting Avilo on was the worst mistake by the way, was all planned by InControl and JP fell for the trap of getting him in. Classic, like putting two angry cats into the same box or something.
We need Day[9] back! If he can't do it, get Darkforce in more often :D
edit:
I'd also like to hear some more opinions on the terran issues about how their micro works. Right now Terrans are much more micro dependant (in a way that there isn't necessarily more micro needed, but if you slip with micro a single time you instantly lose the game a lot of the time) than other races and thats mostly because of how the marine works and how strong it is if microed, so it is much harder for terrans to incorporate Ravens or Ghosts into TvZ as an addition because you have to focus so much of your micro on army positioning and marine micro that you can't really babysit single units in your army as well as Zergs can. Do you think thats a general flaw of game design or do you disagree with that statement in the first place?
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So, you had to have QXC to say what Avilo was "trying" to say because he had made poor arguments and silly examples (which was so funny that they made JP laugh), when he started to derail everything from a debate he got cut off, what a surprise.
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I get the impression JP is an accidental instigator, constantly. He just needs to be more careful, he's running a very influential show. It's like he's trying to hard to impress the rest of the guys.
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On June 29 2012 22:08 LavaLava wrote:
I know Avilo has made irrational arguments in the past, and he likes to complain, which colored peoples' attitudes of him, and I know he was making frustratingly poor arguments by the end there... but that was bullying, plain and simple. IdrA is 22 years old, JP and InControl are 26, but they acted like children in a high school locker room.
A lot of people are mad at JP for not preventing it, but he was in on it. In case not too many people noticed, he really clearly hid Avilo's video stream behind qxc's so he could throw on a stretched-out embarassing picture of the guy holding a stuffed animal. You could see the edges of his video stream before JP quickly covered it up to act like it wasn't working in the background.
I also just want to point out that Avilo's spiral into that circular non-argument happened after IdrA told him to shut the fuck up. He sounded more than a little flustered, being cornered by those people.
It looked like JP and incontrol started reading feedback soon after Avilo got the boot. You could really see it, and I think they realized that they'd crossed some lines.
And yeah, they did. They set out to publicly humiliate the guy in front of thousands of people in his own community. And in nothing like a light or joking way. Basically a 10th grade brow beating. Really, you think these guys weren't bullied or harassed for being pro gamers as kids? How many people in this community got a stomach knot watching that happen?
JP and incontrol kind of said sorry at the end, but I'm still not sure that I can watch this show in good conscience.
The picture you see behind QXC's stream isn't from avilos webcam, it's a part of Idras stream.
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On June 29 2012 22:19 Elldar wrote:
So, you had to have QXC to say what Avilo was "trying" to say because he had made poor arguments and silly examples (which was so funny that they made JP laugh), when he started to derail everything from a debate he got cut off, what a surprise.
How did avilo derail the debate? I agree his arguments weren't that solid, but i think the people telling him to "shut the fuck up" are the ones derailing the debate.
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On June 29 2012 22:19 Elldar wrote:
So, you had to have QXC to say what Avilo was "trying" to say because he had made poor arguments and silly examples (which was so funny that they made JP laugh), when he started to derail everything from a debate he got cut off, what a surprise.
I think JP laughed because there was suddenly a HUGE spike of noise and he was ashamed of it.
But yeah, Avilo isn't the best person to express his opinion and he is known for making silly statements concerning balance and being heavily biased. The Avilo - Idra discussion couldn't have gone any differently, it was a mistake to get him on in the first place (although Avilo was really polite, it was Idra who blew the thing, but Avilo had his fair share for this situation too although he wasn't openly impolite).
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On June 29 2012 22:22 Rabbitmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 22:19 Elldar wrote:
So, you had to have QXC to say what Avilo was "trying" to say because he had made poor arguments and silly examples (which was so funny that they made JP laugh), when he started to derail everything from a debate he got cut off, what a surprise. How did avilo derail the debate? I agree his arguments weren't that solid, but i think the people telling him to "shut the fuck up" are the ones derailing the debate.
No, people telling him shut the fuck up were just stating the fact. Avilo was like a student that decided to teach his teacher. It was irritating and stupid. He was clearly on the show for drama only and that is what we got.
Only people complaining in here are either Avilo fanboys (good thing they didn't do this to Destiny :D) or the most hardcore whiners that moved over the that Terran whine topic that was closed recently.
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Good episode. IdrA and qxc discussion was interesting to hear both perspectives. Thought the avilo situation was handled fine by JP and IdrA.
Keep up the good work guys.
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hmmm....tuned in purely by chance yesterday as I didn't know the show was on, kinda lost respect for the hosts(still <3 you for putting out this lovely show for all of us for free) but the way JP and to a certain extent InC handled the situation was just soooooo damn unprofessional. You don't want avilo on the show? Well, that's fine, it's your show, don't invite him on. Especially since QxC was actually representing a terran point of view(and doing a great job of it). So ok, you DO invite him to speak. Well...also fine. So why would you treat him like an a** from the very beginning? Might as well just not have invited him. I just don't get it. If drama is the direction SOTG is going in willingly...meh..might lose a lot of fans, might also gain some of the drama crowd I guess. Your call guys.
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A perfect depiction of why the western scene is crap. While Avilo is being flat out offended by Idra:
QXC: Silent
InControl: Laughing
JP: Laughing
Idra: pretending he's a relevant top player in the world
Nony: Silent/grinning
Obviously everyone got trolled by JP, he knew shit would arise between Avilo and Idra, but the lack of respect shown by everyone in the show is just sad. And then JP apologizes to Greg?
Then again, what do you expect from having non top-tier players discuss the state of the game...
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On June 29 2012 22:25 -Archangel- wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 22:22 Rabbitmaster wrote:On June 29 2012 22:19 Elldar wrote:
So, you had to have QXC to say what Avilo was "trying" to say because he had made poor arguments and silly examples (which was so funny that they made JP laugh), when he started to derail everything from a debate he got cut off, what a surprise. How did avilo derail the debate? I agree his arguments weren't that solid, but i think the people telling him to "shut the fuck up" are the ones derailing the debate. No, people telling him shut the fuck up were just stating the fact. Avilo was like a student that decided to teach his teacher. It was irritating and stupid. He was clearly on the show for drama only and that is what we got. Only people complaining in here are either Avilo fanboys (good thing they didn't do this to Destiny :D) or the most hardcore whiners that moved over the that Terran whine topic that was closed recently.
I had never even heard of Avilo before this show. And telling a person to shut the fuck up in a debate, no matter how bad one party is doing, is both bad mannered and immature. Also i play protoss, not terran. I have a problem with this kind of behaviour, nothing else.
On June 29 2012 22:29 Mr.Faces wrote:
And then JP apologizes to Greg?
Haha, i actually had to go back and make sure i heard right when he did that... seriously wtf...
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On June 29 2012 22:29 Rabbitmaster wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 22:25 -Archangel- wrote:On June 29 2012 22:22 Rabbitmaster wrote:On June 29 2012 22:19 Elldar wrote:
So, you had to have QXC to say what Avilo was "trying" to say because he had made poor arguments and silly examples (which was so funny that they made JP laugh), when he started to derail everything from a debate he got cut off, what a surprise. How did avilo derail the debate? I agree his arguments weren't that solid, but i think the people telling him to "shut the fuck up" are the ones derailing the debate. No, people telling him shut the fuck up were just stating the fact. Avilo was like a student that decided to teach his teacher. It was irritating and stupid. He was clearly on the show for drama only and that is what we got. Only people complaining in here are either Avilo fanboys (good thing they didn't do this to Destiny :D) or the most hardcore whiners that moved over the that Terran whine topic that was closed recently. I had never even heard of Avilo before this show. And telling a person to shut the fuck up in a debate, no matter how bad one party is doing, is both bad mannered and immature. Also i play protoss, not terran. I have a problem with this kind of behaviour, nothing else.
If you look at it as a debate from equals then that is true. And if Idra said to QXC at any point to shut the fuck up I would also be here holding a pitchfork or a torch but to Avilo?! Did you listen to him at all?
As I said, it was like when a teacher who obviously knows much more then you tries to teach you something and you start acting like he knows shit and you should teach him what did you expect?!
Has never in your schooling years a teacher told one of his students to Shut up?
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this whole situation, and the actions of a lot of the players and personalities involved, is extremely disappointing
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On June 29 2012 22:29 Mr.Faces wrote:
A perfect depiction of why the western scene is crap. While Avilo is being flat out offended by Idra:
QXC: Silent
InControl: Laughing
JP: Laughing
Idra: pretending he's a relevant top player in the world
Nony: Silent/grinning
Obviously everyone got trolled by JP, he knew shit would arise between Avilo and Idra, but the lack of respect shown by everyone in the show is just sad. And then JP apologizes to Greg?
Then again, what do you expect from having non top-tier players discuss the state of the game...
Yes, Avilo is a world famous top tier Terran?!
And you are a top tier player so you can call Idra and others crap?
And I bet you got a low post count because you got banned recently.
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On June 29 2012 22:35 -Archangel- wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2012 22:29 Rabbitmaster wrote:On June 29 2012 22:25 -Archangel- wrote:On June 29 2012 22:22 Rabbitmaster wrote:On June 29 2012 22:19 Elldar wrote:
So, you had to have QXC to say what Avilo was "trying" to say because he had made poor arguments and silly examples (which was so funny that they made JP laugh), when he started to derail everything from a debate he got cut off, what a surprise. How did avilo derail the debate? I agree his arguments weren't that solid, but i think the people telling him to "shut the fuck up" are the ones derailing the debate. No, people telling him shut the fuck up were just stating the fact. Avilo was like a student that decided to teach his teacher. It was irritating and stupid. He was clearly on the show for drama only and that is what we got. Only people complaining in here are either Avilo fanboys (good thing they didn't do this to Destiny :D) or the most hardcore whiners that moved over the that Terran whine topic that was closed recently. I had never even heard of Avilo before this show. And telling a person to shut the fuck up in a debate, no matter how bad one party is doing, is both bad mannered and immature. Also i play protoss, not terran. I have a problem with this kind of behaviour, nothing else. If you look at it as a debate from equals then that is true. And if Idra said to QXC at any point to shut the fuck up I would also be here holding a pitchfork or a torch but to Avilo?! Did you listen to him at all? As I said, it was like when a teacher who obviously knows much more then you tries to teach you something and you start acting like he knows shit and you should teach him what did you expect?! Has never in your schooling years a teacher told one of his students to Shut up?
Idra being avilos teacher. Are you serious with that comparison? wth
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avilo + idra section is cringeworthy. Mia Rose was less awkward.
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EPT
