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On October 05 2011 15:50 Camail wrote: Could you imagine if SC didn't have fog of war? The game would get significantly more meta-gamed,
somewhere..chill is raging and he doesn't even know why. you better hope he doesn't find out.
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On October 05 2011 16:03 0neder wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 15:16 Talin wrote:On October 05 2011 15:05 0neder wrote:On October 05 2011 14:34 bentnormal wrote: sc better than chess? come on artosis... Chess is nearly infinitely slow, not real time, and has much fewer variables and depth than SC. What do you base that on? The number of unit and movement types and map size and variance (1). Sure, it's simple so the depth it has been explored is incredible compared to SC, but that doesn't make it a deeper game.
If that were the case, then any game in the Age of Empires series would have a lot more depth than Starcraft, and as such probably the one game in the genre that would be the most appealing to the competitive RTS scene. However, complexity of base rules isn't directly proportional to the depth of the game. Less is often times more.
Even though there are technically more variables, most of the rules are very straightforward and there's a very small and limited set of meaningful actions a player can take during a game compared to chess. Likewise, there are only several meaningful locations on any given map and paths to those locations.
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On October 05 2011 16:53 itmeJP wrote: I'm going to make sure all of this comes to fruition, just for you. Then i would like my cut of the action then, also maybe my name in the credits for said idea. :p
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On October 05 2011 16:56 ondik wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 15:50 Camail wrote: Could you imagine if SC didn't have fog of war? The game would get significantly more meta-gamed, somewhere..chill is raging and he doesn't even know why. you better hope he doesn't find out. Oh no..... he knows why.... He just doesn't know where.
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On October 05 2011 15:51 jalstar wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 15:44 ketomai wrote:I could probably write a shit load on the possibilities after 15 hatch 16 pool too..-.-. What Artosis is saying is that starcraft involves another factor, and that's REAL TIME. Chess can be simplified to a few moves, starcraft's moves are pretty much nearly infinite, so theoretically, it has the potential to be much, much deeper and more complex. Try thinking how one would "solve" chess (similar to how people have solved checkers), then think about how one would "solve" starcraft. Neither can be solved, there are more possible chess games than atoms in the observable universe.
If you are going to throw random crap like that around atleast provide a link to where you get this information. -_-
I don't care if this is true or not I just want a link because this sounds like there should be an interesting article to read out there.
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On October 05 2011 16:56 ondik wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 15:50 Camail wrote: Could you imagine if SC didn't have fog of war? The game would get significantly more meta-gamed, somewhere..chill is raging and he doesn't even know why. you better hope he doesn't find out.
achoo.
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wait, I hope MLG hosting = no MP3.....
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Germany25649 Posts
Actually there is no mp3 yet because JP was tired and didnt get around to it yet. Give it time, no big deal, there is GSL code s to watch in about 3 minutes ! :D
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On October 05 2011 17:38 Hall0wed wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 15:51 jalstar wrote:On October 05 2011 15:44 ketomai wrote:I could probably write a shit load on the possibilities after 15 hatch 16 pool too..-.-. What Artosis is saying is that starcraft involves another factor, and that's REAL TIME. Chess can be simplified to a few moves, starcraft's moves are pretty much nearly infinite, so theoretically, it has the potential to be much, much deeper and more complex. Try thinking how one would "solve" chess (similar to how people have solved checkers), then think about how one would "solve" starcraft. Neither can be solved, there are more possible chess games than atoms in the observable universe. If you are going to throw random crap like that around atleast provide a link to where you get this information. -_- I don't care if this is true or not I just want a link because this sounds like there should be an interesting article to read out there.
It's only true because a chess game can literally go on forever. So the amount of games is infinite. Realistic games that someone would actually play and not involve people running in circles forever with pieces and it's nowhere near true.
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On October 05 2011 17:59 KadaverBB wrote: Actually there is no mp3 yet because JP was tired and didnt get around to it yet. Give it time, no big deal, there is GSL code s to watch in about 3 minutes ! :D
Not everyone is in the comfort of their own home, would be hard to explain why I'm watching GSL at work.
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On October 05 2011 18:05 Mord wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 17:59 KadaverBB wrote: Actually there is no mp3 yet because JP was tired and didnt get around to it yet. Give it time, no big deal, there is GSL code s to watch in about 3 minutes ! :D Not everyone is in the comfort of their own home, would be hard to explain why I'm watching GSL at work.  No it wouldn't. You're watching it because its fucking awesome and Tasteless is one sexy man.
Now would that explanation be acceptable? Depends where you work.
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On October 05 2011 16:35 brum wrote:Show nested quote +The show can't be hosted on blip anymore. That doesn't benefit MLG at all. It can't be posted through JTV archives -- that doesn't benefit MLG at all either. MLG is ruining esports!
yea, Wish MLG never existed.
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On October 05 2011 18:10 zaii wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 16:35 brum wrote:The show can't be hosted on blip anymore. That doesn't benefit MLG at all. It can't be posted through JTV archives -- that doesn't benefit MLG at all either. MLG is ruining esports! yea, Wish MLG never existed.
In my innocence i belived SotG was a "private" production/show and not actually produced by MLG, even tho JP works for MLG and there where obviously some connections.
Huh... You live and you learn.
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On October 05 2011 17:38 Hall0wed wrote:Show nested quote +On October 05 2011 15:51 jalstar wrote:On October 05 2011 15:44 ketomai wrote:I could probably write a shit load on the possibilities after 15 hatch 16 pool too..-.-. What Artosis is saying is that starcraft involves another factor, and that's REAL TIME. Chess can be simplified to a few moves, starcraft's moves are pretty much nearly infinite, so theoretically, it has the potential to be much, much deeper and more complex. Try thinking how one would "solve" chess (similar to how people have solved checkers), then think about how one would "solve" starcraft. Neither can be solved, there are more possible chess games than atoms in the observable universe. If you are going to throw random crap like that around atleast provide a link to where you get this information. -_- I don't care if this is true or not I just want a link because this sounds like there should be an interesting article to read out there. Yeah there is no excuse for not thinking about all those poor people who haven't figured out how to use google yet.
+ Show Spoiler +
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Is the VoD up yet? Mp3 file apparently isn't..
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It's only true because a chess game can literally go on forever. So the amount of games is infinite. Realistic games that someone would actually play and not involve people running in circles forever with pieces and it's nowhere near true. Chess games can't go on forever, and the amount of possible games is not infinite. They are limited by two important moves, the three-move repetition rule, and the fifty move rule (the fifty move rule is very much like a chess equivalent of the conditions for a drawn game in sc2).
"The number of legal positions in chess is estimated to be between 10^43 and 10^47 (a provable upper bound), with a game-tree complexity of approximately 10^123. The game-tree complexity of chess was first calculated by Claude Shannon as 10^120, a number known as the Shannon number. Typically an average position has thirty to forty possible moves, but there may be as few as zero (in the case of checkmate or stalemate) or as many as 218." (from wikipedia).
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Kinda annoyed the mp3 or vods dont seem to be up yet , if they want to host it on mlg.tv fine, if they want to split it into 5 parts to be able to host it on mlg.tv fine but atleast get it up quickly
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Meh, no SOTG mp3 for my Wednesday commute. :-(
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Germany25649 Posts
On October 05 2011 19:01 iRaYP wrote:Kinda annoyed the mp3 or vods dont seem to be up yet  , if they want to host it on mlg.tv fine, if they want to split it into 5 parts to be able to host it on mlg.tv fine but atleast get it up quickly 
JP stated on his twitter that he was super tired and was gonna upload the MP3 and Vod after he got some sleep.
It has nothing to do with MLG.
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Not trying to complain here, I know there are issues for last weeks episode, but like can't we just have it chill on twitch till the vods are up on mlg? Using mp3s kinda sucks compared to actually watching and there is no way I can watch live thanks to timezones.
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