• Log InLog In
  • Register
Liquid`
Team Liquid Liquipedia
EDT 21:23
CEST 03:23
KST 10:23
  • Home
  • Forum
  • Calendar
  • Streams
  • Liquipedia
  • Features
  • Store
  • EPT
  • TL+
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Smash
  • Heroes
  • Counter-Strike
  • Overwatch
  • Liquibet
  • Fantasy StarCraft
  • TLPD
  • StarCraft 2
  • Brood War
  • Blogs
Forum Sidebar
Events/Features
News
Featured News
[ASL22] Ro16 Preview: Rough Waters9[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Siren's Call8[ASL22] Ro24 Preview: Summer's End9Serral wins HomeStory Cup 2915Serral wins Maestros of the Game 244
Community News
Weekly Cups (Aug 30-Sep 7): herO thrives amid growing schism8Official StarCraft website teases new content ahead of BlizzCon?124Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20)9Weekly Cups (August 24-30): Patches' balance mod takes over3New 3v3 BGH Ladder (and more) on ShieldBattery!46
StarCraft 2
General
Weekly Cups (Aug 30-Sep 7): herO thrives amid growing schism SC4ALL: II Winner will earn a spot at HSC 30! SC4ALL II: StarCraft 2 Player Announcement 7/8 Nexon wins bid to develop StarCraft IP content, distribute Overwatch mobile game Balance hotfix patch 5.0.16b (July 16)
Tourneys
Sparkling Tuna Cup - Weekly Open Tournament Sea Duckling Open (Global, Bronze-Diamond) 2026 GSTL Announcement Stellar Fest TWO the Moon (Dec 16-20) IntoTheTV X SOOP SC2 League : Weekly & Monthly
Strategy
[G] Having the right mentality to improve
Custom Maps
Nexus Wars 2021 GUIDE [M] (2) Industrial Park
External Content
Mutation # 542 The Ascended Mutation # 541 Binary Choice The PondCast: SC2 News & Results Mutation # 540 Dodge This
Brood War
General
[D] Brainstorming a balance patch for Brood war Practice Partners (Official) BW General Discussion Terran or Protoss Official StarCraft website teases new content ahead of BlizzCon?
Tourneys
[Megathread] Daily Proleagues [ASL22] Ro16 Group A [ASL22] Ro16 Group B KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
Strategy
Replay Review Process - What do you do? Simple Questions, Simple Answers Odyssey Mineral Stack Saturation Game Theory for Starcraft
Other Games
General Games
Nintendo Switch Thread EVE Corporation Diablo IV [Maplestory Hardcore] Let's Play~!! General RTS Discussion Thread
Dota 2
Official 'what is Dota anymore' discussion
League of Legends
[TL LoL EUW IHs] Teemo shall perish TSM pausing esports and CLG Dead
Heroes of the Storm
Heroes of the Storm 2.0
Hearthstone
Deck construction bug
TL Mafia
TL Mafia Power Rank TL Mafia Community Thread NeO.D_StephenKing vs This Guy From 1 Million Dance
Community
General
US Politics Mega-thread Things Aren’t Peaceful in Palestine Russo-Ukrainian War Thread European Politico-economics QA Mega-thread Trading/Investing Thread
Fan Clubs
MarineLorD Fan Club The Creator Fan Club The ShoWTimE Fan Club
Media & Entertainment
Movie Discussion! Anime Discussion Thread
Sports
Football (Soccer) Thread TeamLiquid Health and Fitness Initiative For 2023 MLB/Baseball 2023
World Cup 2022
Tech Support
Computer Build, Upgrade & Buying Resource Thread
TL Community
The Automated Ban List Northern Ireland Global Starcraft
Blogs
Virtual Romance, Real-Life C…
TrAiDoS
Regacy Esports:Our Goa…
regacyesports
Dreaming of BW patches (mod…
c3rberUs
LOCKPICKING NOOB
LUCKY_NOOB
Customize Sidebar...

Website Feedback

Closed Threads



Active: 7321 users

Official State of the Game Podcast Thread - Page 1650

Forum Index > SC2 General
54608 CommentsPost a Reply
Prev 1 1648 1649 1650 1651 1652 2731 Next
ondik
Profile Blog Joined November 2008
Czech Republic2908 Posts
October 05 2011 07:56 GMT
#32981
On October 05 2011 15:50 Camail wrote:
Could you imagine if SC didn't have fog of war? The game would get significantly more meta-gamed,


somewhere..chill is raging and he doesn't even know why. you better hope he doesn't find out.
Bisu. The one and only. // Save the cheerreaver, save the world (of SC2)
Talin
Profile Blog Joined September 2010
Montenegro10532 Posts
October 05 2011 07:58 GMT
#32982
On October 05 2011 16:03 0neder wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 05 2011 15:16 Talin wrote:
On October 05 2011 15:05 0neder wrote:
On October 05 2011 14:34 bentnormal wrote:
sc better than chess? come on artosis...

Chess is nearly infinitely slow, not real time, and has much fewer variables and depth than SC.


What do you base that on?

The number of unit and movement types and map size and variance (1).

Sure, it's simple so the depth it has been explored is incredible compared to SC, but that doesn't make it a deeper game.


If that were the case, then any game in the Age of Empires series would have a lot more depth than Starcraft, and as such probably the one game in the genre that would be the most appealing to the competitive RTS scene. However, complexity of base rules isn't directly proportional to the depth of the game. Less is often times more.

Even though there are technically more variables, most of the rules are very straightforward and there's a very small and limited set of meaningful actions a player can take during a game compared to chess. Likewise, there are only several meaningful locations on any given map and paths to those locations.
Vagabond
Profile Joined April 2011
Scotland149 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-05 08:03:38
October 05 2011 07:58 GMT
#32983
On October 05 2011 16:53 itmeJP wrote:
I'm going to make sure all of this comes to fruition, just for you.

Then i would like my cut of the action then, also maybe my name in the credits for said idea. :p
Drone untill i die.
Yamulo
Profile Blog Joined October 2010
United States2096 Posts
October 05 2011 08:04 GMT
#32984
On October 05 2011 16:56 ondik wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 05 2011 15:50 Camail wrote:
Could you imagine if SC didn't have fog of war? The game would get significantly more meta-gamed,


somewhere..chill is raging and he doesn't even know why. you better hope he doesn't find out.

Oh no..... he knows why.... He just doesn't know where.
~~~Liquid Fighting (SC2)~~~
Hall0wed
Profile Blog Joined January 2011
United States8486 Posts
October 05 2011 08:38 GMT
#32985
On October 05 2011 15:51 jalstar wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 05 2011 15:44 ketomai wrote:
On October 05 2011 15:37 nvs. wrote:
On October 05 2011 15:28 Hall0wed wrote:
On October 05 2011 15:21 nvs. wrote:
and has much fewer variables and depth than SC.


omg. this might be the most ignorant statement ever. there are 500 page books on one variation of one opening.


If you REALLY wanted to you could write a 500 page book on 1 SC opening... I think.

Also post a link to said book you speak of, sounds quite exaggerated.


http://www.amazon.com/Chess-Openings-White-Explained-Winning/dp/1889323209/ref=sr_1_29?ie=UTF8&qid=1317796568&sr=8-29

500+ page book on one white opening (e4)


I could probably write a shit load on the possibilities after 15 hatch 16 pool too..-.-.

What Artosis is saying is that starcraft involves another factor, and that's REAL TIME. Chess can be simplified to a few moves, starcraft's moves are pretty much nearly infinite, so theoretically, it has the potential to be much, much deeper and more complex.

Try thinking how one would "solve" chess (similar to how people have solved checkers), then think about how one would "solve" starcraft.


Neither can be solved, there are more possible chess games than atoms in the observable universe.


If you are going to throw random crap like that around atleast provide a link to where you get this information. -_-

I don't care if this is true or not I just want a link because this sounds like there should be an interesting article to read out there.
♦ My Life for BESTie ♦ 류세라 = 배 ♦
Gamegene
Profile Blog Joined June 2011
United States8308 Posts
October 05 2011 08:42 GMT
#32986
On October 05 2011 16:56 ondik wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 05 2011 15:50 Camail wrote:
Could you imagine if SC didn't have fog of war? The game would get significantly more meta-gamed,


somewhere..chill is raging and he doesn't even know why. you better hope he doesn't find out.


achoo.
Throw on your favorite jacket and you're good to roll. Stroll through the trees and let your miseries go.
Klonere
Profile Blog Joined December 2010
Ireland4123 Posts
October 05 2011 08:56 GMT
#32987
wait, I hope MLG hosting = no MP3.....
KadaverBB
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Germany25658 Posts
October 05 2011 08:59 GMT
#32988
Actually there is no mp3 yet because JP was tired and didnt get around to it yet.
Give it time, no big deal, there is GSL code s to watch in about 3 minutes ! :D
AdministratorLaws change depending on who's making them, but justice is justice
ragingfungus
Profile Joined September 2010
United States271 Posts
October 05 2011 09:04 GMT
#32989
On October 05 2011 17:38 Hall0wed wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 05 2011 15:51 jalstar wrote:
On October 05 2011 15:44 ketomai wrote:
On October 05 2011 15:37 nvs. wrote:
On October 05 2011 15:28 Hall0wed wrote:
On October 05 2011 15:21 nvs. wrote:
and has much fewer variables and depth than SC.


omg. this might be the most ignorant statement ever. there are 500 page books on one variation of one opening.


If you REALLY wanted to you could write a 500 page book on 1 SC opening... I think.

Also post a link to said book you speak of, sounds quite exaggerated.


http://www.amazon.com/Chess-Openings-White-Explained-Winning/dp/1889323209/ref=sr_1_29?ie=UTF8&qid=1317796568&sr=8-29

500+ page book on one white opening (e4)


I could probably write a shit load on the possibilities after 15 hatch 16 pool too..-.-.

What Artosis is saying is that starcraft involves another factor, and that's REAL TIME. Chess can be simplified to a few moves, starcraft's moves are pretty much nearly infinite, so theoretically, it has the potential to be much, much deeper and more complex.

Try thinking how one would "solve" chess (similar to how people have solved checkers), then think about how one would "solve" starcraft.


Neither can be solved, there are more possible chess games than atoms in the observable universe.


If you are going to throw random crap like that around atleast provide a link to where you get this information. -_-

I don't care if this is true or not I just want a link because this sounds like there should be an interesting article to read out there.


It's only true because a chess game can literally go on forever. So the amount of games is infinite. Realistic games that someone would actually play and not involve people running in circles forever with pieces and it's nowhere near true.
Logic>Everything
Mord
Profile Joined May 2011
Norway171 Posts
October 05 2011 09:05 GMT
#32990
On October 05 2011 17:59 KadaverBB wrote:
Actually there is no mp3 yet because JP was tired and didnt get around to it yet.
Give it time, no big deal, there is GSL code s to watch in about 3 minutes ! :D


Not everyone is in the comfort of their own home, would be hard to explain why I'm watching GSL at work.
jmbthirteen
Profile Blog Joined February 2011
United States10734 Posts
October 05 2011 09:10 GMT
#32991
On October 05 2011 18:05 Mord wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 05 2011 17:59 KadaverBB wrote:
Actually there is no mp3 yet because JP was tired and didnt get around to it yet.
Give it time, no big deal, there is GSL code s to watch in about 3 minutes ! :D


Not everyone is in the comfort of their own home, would be hard to explain why I'm watching GSL at work.

No it wouldn't. You're watching it because its fucking awesome and Tasteless is one sexy man.

Now would that explanation be acceptable? Depends where you work.
www.superbeerbrothers.com
zaii
Profile Joined October 2010
Guam2611 Posts
October 05 2011 09:10 GMT
#32992
On October 05 2011 16:35 brum wrote:
Show nested quote +
The show can't be hosted on blip anymore. That doesn't benefit MLG at all. It can't be posted through JTV archives -- that doesn't benefit MLG at all either.

MLG is ruining esports!


yea, Wish MLG never existed.
DND_Enkil
Profile Joined September 2010
Sweden598 Posts
October 05 2011 09:39 GMT
#32993
On October 05 2011 18:10 zaii wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 05 2011 16:35 brum wrote:
The show can't be hosted on blip anymore. That doesn't benefit MLG at all. It can't be posted through JTV archives -- that doesn't benefit MLG at all either.

MLG is ruining esports!


yea, Wish MLG never existed.


In my innocence i belived SotG was a "private" production/show and not actually produced by MLG, even tho JP works for MLG and there where obviously some connections.

Huh... You live and you learn.
"If you write about a sewing needle there is always some one-eyed bastard that gets offended" - Fritiof The Pirate Nilsson
Elean
Profile Joined October 2010
689 Posts
Last Edited: 2011-10-05 09:48:51
October 05 2011 09:46 GMT
#32994
On October 05 2011 17:38 Hall0wed wrote:
Show nested quote +
On October 05 2011 15:51 jalstar wrote:
On October 05 2011 15:44 ketomai wrote:
On October 05 2011 15:37 nvs. wrote:
On October 05 2011 15:28 Hall0wed wrote:
On October 05 2011 15:21 nvs. wrote:
and has much fewer variables and depth than SC.


omg. this might be the most ignorant statement ever. there are 500 page books on one variation of one opening.


If you REALLY wanted to you could write a 500 page book on 1 SC opening... I think.

Also post a link to said book you speak of, sounds quite exaggerated.


http://www.amazon.com/Chess-Openings-White-Explained-Winning/dp/1889323209/ref=sr_1_29?ie=UTF8&qid=1317796568&sr=8-29

500+ page book on one white opening (e4)


I could probably write a shit load on the possibilities after 15 hatch 16 pool too..-.-.

What Artosis is saying is that starcraft involves another factor, and that's REAL TIME. Chess can be simplified to a few moves, starcraft's moves are pretty much nearly infinite, so theoretically, it has the potential to be much, much deeper and more complex.

Try thinking how one would "solve" chess (similar to how people have solved checkers), then think about how one would "solve" starcraft.


Neither can be solved, there are more possible chess games than atoms in the observable universe.


If you are going to throw random crap like that around atleast provide a link to where you get this information. -_-

I don't care if this is true or not I just want a link because this sounds like there should be an interesting article to read out there.

Yeah there is no excuse for not thinking about all those poor people who haven't figured out how to use google yet.

+ Show Spoiler +
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shannon_number
Grettin
Profile Joined April 2010
42414 Posts
October 05 2011 09:48 GMT
#32995
Is the VoD up yet? Mp3 file apparently isn't..
"If I had force-fields in Brood War, I'd never lose." -Bisu
barrykp
Profile Joined August 2010
Ireland174 Posts
October 05 2011 09:55 GMT
#32996
It's only true because a chess game can literally go on forever. So the amount of games is infinite. Realistic games that someone would actually play and not involve people running in circles forever with pieces and it's nowhere near true.

Chess games can't go on forever, and the amount of possible games is not infinite. They are limited by two important moves, the three-move repetition rule, and the fifty move rule (the fifty move rule is very much like a chess equivalent of the conditions for a drawn game in sc2).

"The number of legal positions in chess is estimated to be between 10^43 and 10^47 (a provable upper bound), with a game-tree complexity of approximately 10^123. The game-tree complexity of chess was first calculated by Claude Shannon as 10^120, a number known as the Shannon number. Typically an average position has thirty to forty possible moves, but there may be as few as zero (in the case of checkmate or stalemate) or as many as 218." (from wikipedia).
Lecture me some more on how to play please; I need help.
iRaYP
Profile Joined March 2011
Scotland66 Posts
October 05 2011 10:01 GMT
#32997
Kinda annoyed the mp3 or vods dont seem to be up yet , if they want to host it on mlg.tv fine, if they want to split it into 5 parts to be able to host it on mlg.tv fine but atleast get it up quickly
Herp Derp
Heraklitus
Profile Joined September 2010
United States553 Posts
October 05 2011 11:02 GMT
#32998
Meh, no SOTG mp3 for my Wednesday commute. :-(
KadaverBB
Profile Blog Joined June 2009
Germany25658 Posts
October 05 2011 11:10 GMT
#32999
On October 05 2011 19:01 iRaYP wrote:
Kinda annoyed the mp3 or vods dont seem to be up yet , if they want to host it on mlg.tv fine, if they want to split it into 5 parts to be able to host it on mlg.tv fine but atleast get it up quickly




JP stated on his twitter that he was super tired and was gonna upload the MP3 and Vod after he got some sleep.

It has nothing to do with MLG.
AdministratorLaws change depending on who's making them, but justice is justice
Lorch
Profile Joined June 2011
Germany3710 Posts
October 05 2011 11:59 GMT
#33000
Not trying to complain here, I know there are issues for last weeks episode, but like can't we just have it chill on twitch till the vods are up on mlg? Using mp3s kinda sucks compared to actually watching and there is no way I can watch live thanks to timezones.
Prev 1 1648 1649 1650 1651 1652 2731 Next
Please log in or register to reply.
Live Events Refresh
OSC
22:30
Masters Cup #151
Liquipedia
[ Submit Event ]
Live Streams
Refresh
StarCraft 2
RuFF_SC2 145
SpeCial 65
CosmosSc2 31
StarCraft: Brood War
Rain 2063
GuemChi 1605
Dota 2
NeuroSwarm123
Counter-Strike
Fnx 835
m0e_tv236
minikerr28
Other Games
summit1g9248
shahzam505
C9.Mang0309
PiGStarcraft189
Maynarde112
ViBE102
[ Show 12 non-featured ]
StarCraft 2
• Berry_CruncH311
• AfreecaTV YouTube
• intothetv
• Kozan
• IndyKCrew
• Migwel
StarCraft: Brood War
• davetesta3
• BSLYoutube
• STPLYoutube
• ZZZeroYoutube
Other Games
• Scarra1371
• imaqtpie686
Upcoming Events
Escore
8h 37m
IntoTheTV X SOOP
9h 37m
CranKy Ducklings
1d 8h
WardiTV Invitational
1d 9h
Cure vs Zoun
SHIN vs Classic
ByuN vs MaxPax
Percival vs YoungYakov
Sparkling Tuna Cup
2 days
WardiTV Invitational
2 days
Shopify Rebellion Sundays
2 days
Spirit vs Mixu
Clem vs TBD
RSL Revival
2 days
Serral vs Rogue
BlizzCon
2 days
IdrA vs MC
Replay Cast
2 days
[ Show More ]
Afreeca Starleague
3 days
WardiTV Weekly
3 days
Monday Night Weeklies
3 days
Afreeca Starleague
4 days
GSL
4 days
PiGosaur Cup
4 days
The PondCast
5 days
Kung Fu Cup
5 days
Replay Cast
5 days
IntoTheTV X SOOP
6 days
Replay Cast
6 days
Liquipedia Results

Completed

Proleague 2026-09-08
PiG Sty Festival 8.0
Big Dog Cup 2026 Div 1

Ongoing

KCM Race Survival 2026 Season 3
K-JUNGMAN
ASL Season 22
Super Anchor Qualifying S3
CSL 2026 AUTUMN (S22)
Acropolis #5
Acropolis #5 - TRS
Escore Tournament S3: King of Kings
RSL Revival: Season 6
Calamity Invitational
FISSURE Playground #3
BLAST Open Fall 2026
Esports World Cup 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer 2026
BLAST Bounty Summer Qual
Stake Ranked Episode 3
XSE Pro League 2026

Upcoming

Acropolis #5 - GSA
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Acropolis #5 - GSB
Acropolis #5 - GSC
SC4ALL II: Brood War
HSC XXX
Stellar Fest 2: Lunar Cup
SC4ALL II: StarCraft II
Kung Fu Cup 2026 Grand Finals
RSL Offline Finals
Blizzard Classic Cup 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 6
BLAST Rivals Fall 2026
IEM Beijing 2026
Stake Ranked Episode 5
PGL Masters Bucharest 2026
1win Private Club #2
Thunderpick World Champ. '26
ESL Pro League Season 24
Stake Ranked Episode 4
1win Private Club #1
Logitech G Play Connect 2026
SL StarSeries Fall 2026
TLPD

1. ByuN
2. TY
3. Dark
4. Solar
5. Stats
6. Nerchio
7. sOs
8. soO
9. INnoVation
10. Elazer
1. Rain
2. Flash
3. EffOrt
4. Last
5. Bisu
6. Soulkey
7. Mini
8. Sharp
Sidebar Settings...

Disclosure: This page contains affiliate marketing links that support TLnet.

Advertising | Privacy Policy | Terms Of Use | Contact Us

Original banner artwork: Jim Warren
The contents of this webpage are copyright © 2026 TLnet. All Rights Reserved.