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On June 29 2011 06:07 Slasher wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2011 05:57 DharmaTurtle wrote:Anyways, unsubscribed from EG's shows because of this bullcrap. ![[image loading]](http://i.imgur.com/tgvPK.jpg) Anxious for your return JP! Speaking on behalf of Live on Three - I write the show, it is not a EG show, and is insulting to think so.
I watched LO3 a week or two ago and heard a bunch of stuff about increasing transparency, so much for that!
I'll still watch LO3 because it is interesting to see another POV of pro-gaming, but I can pass on ITG. It is definitely more for newbies than SOTG, so it is a somewhat different niche anyways.
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Speaking on behalf of Live on Three - I write the show, it is not a EG show, and is insulting to think so.
So can we assume this will be discussed on Live on Three? Since you write it and it is no fluff right?
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On June 29 2011 06:09 MuseMike wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2011 06:07 mordek wrote:On June 29 2011 05:47 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On June 29 2011 05:25 Senx wrote:
Really sad about EG managment pretty much killing the greatest gaming podcast on the web by pulling out geoff and then being deceptive about it.
I don't understand why they cant just make an official statement as to why they did what they did. Atleast be honest with the community if you already managed to upset them.
i enjoy SOTG but let's get real here. it does not produce a revenue stream. placing highly in SC2 tournaments provides the high visibility EGs benefactor's require... SOTG provides zero value for the guys who pay the bills at EG. EG guys made shoutouts every appearance in this much-loved show. How is this possibly not the kind of exposure a sponsor would want to see... do they need fancy graphics and an actual ad to run? They don't have ads on the show 24/7 like the steelseries logo etc? The shoutout section is at the very end of the show and some people stop watching by then. That could be a factor, but who knows we only have info on the result of the decision, not specifics.
I can't speak for everyone, but when a player invests his time to share thoughts and opinions on this game I love, I respect that. I appreciate that. Business terms: they generate a lot of goodwill with me.
Maybe running the ads makes me subconciously more disposed to buy X product but when Tyler got sponsored by Stride I went to their Facebook and "liked" them. And when I buy gum, I am going to buy Stride gum. It wasn't the annoying commercial with people riding ostriches. It was Tyler showing up on Tuesday nights, giving his thoughts and making me laugh.
Hopefully sponsors can take that for what it's worth.
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On June 29 2011 06:07 Slasher wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2011 05:57 DharmaTurtle wrote:Anyways, unsubscribed from EG's shows because of this bullcrap. Anxious for your return JP! Speaking on behalf of Live on Three - I write the show, it is not a EG show, and is insulting to think so.
Lol, resubscribed <3 My mistake - no offense intended - though certainly you're free to feel thusly.
This thread is full of offense today, isn't it.
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Yes Slasher if you truly want a fanclub bring the heat when you talk to Sir Scoots this week on Lon3 and we will see how truly no fluff it is... I will be watching :D
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On June 29 2011 06:00 Liquid`Tyler wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2011 05:56 Ganjamaster wrote:On June 29 2011 05:47 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On June 29 2011 04:49 Ganjamaster wrote:On June 29 2011 04:43 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On June 29 2011 04:14 Usagi wrote:
Holy shit, whats going on guys? what the heck is all this stuff about...
Tyler, I heard you say some very wise words in SoTG in one of the last few episodes, when you reminded yourself to think twice before posting anything in the forums, looks like you didnt follow your own advice, and it is easily understandable why SirScoots got agreviated, calling a company a Joke is an Insult, and not even a veiled one, calling the "it's humor" joke doesnt really work there. Actually I like that I've sparked discussion in the SOTG thread so it stays on top of SC2 General for a while. I also like that people are talking about EG, for better or worse. EG probably likes it too if their tacit approval of IdrA's reputation is any indication. And I don't mind the people who think calling something a joke has more to do with being insulting than with humor. I'm sure when they log off TL and return to their coloring books, they'll forget all about me. Now there's an insult and a joke in one! As I mentioned previously, calling something a joke implies it is devoid of any seriousness. Given that SirScoots thinks EG is serious business, he might feel inclined to see it as an insult albeit a mild one. They can be offended that my reaction to their serious business decisions is amusement but I'm still not insulting them. One could say I had a choice when I made the post to reveal whether or not I'm more inclined to laugh than to take them seriously. And one could argue that choosing to express something that could cause offense is being deliberately insulting. But that'd be a distortion of my act. What's really happening is I have an honest reaction and I report it accurately. There's no disconnection between what actually happened and what I want people to think happened. The notion that there is such a disconnection, or that there ought to be, is one of the very notions EG supports and one that I find particularly amusing. And that's what started this whole thing. Destiny disapproves of the deception and so do I. No one is compelling them to accurately report everything; privacy can be respected. But the deception? What a joke. After laughing so heartily and so often, it got to the point where withholding my laughter would be deceptive. Ha ha ha. I'm bathing in my transparent amusement of EG's amusing opacity. An act can be insulting without being deliberate. Your honest reaction can and probably is insulting to SirScoots and EG. I agree that there is no disconnectiong between your act and your intentions but it is fact that these are perceived as insulting by EG. Yeah definitely, and then we have to go into the meticulous study of separating out and defining the different kinds of acts and what they mean. I don't think the average TL.net user is up for that... But if we did, I would categorize my act as the type of act where it's not accurate to say I actively and deliberately insulted anyone. In other words, it's possible to be insulted without anyone doing the insulting, and that's what happened here! =]! Whatever I did, it wasn't an insult!
But its quite amusing to me that you think these distinctions work over a forum on the internet.
Again,common Tyler.
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It was already discussed on Live on Three after iNcontroL announced his departure from STOG.
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On June 29 2011 06:14 mordek wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2011 06:09 MuseMike wrote:On June 29 2011 06:07 mordek wrote:On June 29 2011 05:47 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On June 29 2011 05:25 Senx wrote:
Really sad about EG managment pretty much killing the greatest gaming podcast on the web by pulling out geoff and then being deceptive about it.
I don't understand why they cant just make an official statement as to why they did what they did. Atleast be honest with the community if you already managed to upset them.
i enjoy SOTG but let's get real here. it does not produce a revenue stream. placing highly in SC2 tournaments provides the high visibility EGs benefactor's require... SOTG provides zero value for the guys who pay the bills at EG. EG guys made shoutouts every appearance in this much-loved show. How is this possibly not the kind of exposure a sponsor would want to see... do they need fancy graphics and an actual ad to run? They don't have ads on the show 24/7 like the steelseries logo etc? The shoutout section is at the very end of the show and some people stop watching by then. That could be a factor, but who knows we only have info on the result of the decision, not specifics. I can't speak for everyone, but when a player invests his time to share thoughts and opinions on this game I love, I respect that. I appreciate that. Business terms: they generate a lot of goodwill with me. Maybe running the ads makes me subconciously more disposed to buy X product but when Tyler got sponsored by Stride I went to their Facebook and "liked" them. And when I buy gum, I am going to buy Stride gum. It wasn't the annoying commercial with people riding ostriches. It was Tyler showing up on Tuesday nights, giving his thoughts and making me laugh. Hopefully sponsors can take that for what it's worth.
I bought stride gum, and I really liked his way of plugging it. It wasn't a logo plastered there for 3 hours, but it is up to what sponsors want. He gave us an honest reason to buy the gum. I agree with what you are saying.
I think most people understand WHY EG would make the decision they did, they just disagree with how they went through with it. If the sponsors want an ad placed and ITG is the show for that then so be it, it is business most people will understand that. Just don't lie.
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On June 29 2011 06:10 Jibba wrote:
Why hasn't EG bought all of their players second monitors for when they stream? This leaked Skype/chat shit is getting old.
Or popular streamers could just use R1CH's stream-friendly application: StreamPrivacy.
If teams could get their streamers to use this software, it would save the community so much drama!
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I would love Lo3 forever if the heat was laid down on SirScoots like it was laid down on Matt Marcou (Riot Games ESports Manager) when they discussed the lag problems at Dreamhack.
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Out of interest, when people reference Destiny in this discussion; did he say something about this specifically, and if so, what?
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I don't really care about the drama, I just want more podcasts with pro players talking about recent tournaments and strategy.
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On June 29 2011 06:10 Jibba wrote:
Why hasn't EG bought all of their players second monitors for when they stream? This leaked Skype/chat shit is getting old.
Or started using R1CH's streaming magic app that blocks certain applications, even cheaper than a 2nd monitor.
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On June 29 2011 06:16 GenoZStriker wrote:
It was already discussed on Live on Three after iNcontroL discussed his departure from STOG.
Yea but not with the added leaked info and the fact that Incontrol seems to be popping up on all of DJWheat's other shows... Lo3, KoT, while already being a member of ITG
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It was already discussed on Live on Three after iNcontroL announced his departure from STOG.
You mean they told us a bunch of stuff that wasn't true on LO3 and now new evidence has emerged?
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On June 29 2011 04:53 Dandel Ion wrote:
So, to summarize:
Incontrol leaves SotG to have more practise time.
Scoots says it's no problem if he wants to still join in occasionally.
Sooo we get (at least some) Incontrol on SotG. Which for most people, is probably a good thing.
Then Drama.
Tyler insults EG.
Scoots writes some off-hand remark in response.
More Drama.
Makes perfect sense.
This is why we can't have nice things, the SC2's communities ability to completely make anything in Epic Drama! is really getting quite old and annoying.
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On June 29 2011 06:00 Liquid`Tyler wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2011 05:56 Ganjamaster wrote:On June 29 2011 05:47 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On June 29 2011 04:49 Ganjamaster wrote:On June 29 2011 04:43 Liquid`Tyler wrote:On June 29 2011 04:14 Usagi wrote:
Holy shit, whats going on guys? what the heck is all this stuff about...
Tyler, I heard you say some very wise words in SoTG in one of the last few episodes, when you reminded yourself to think twice before posting anything in the forums, looks like you didnt follow your own advice, and it is easily understandable why SirScoots got agreviated, calling a company a Joke is an Insult, and not even a veiled one, calling the "it's humor" joke doesnt really work there. Actually I like that I've sparked discussion in the SOTG thread so it stays on top of SC2 General for a while. I also like that people are talking about EG, for better or worse. EG probably likes it too if their tacit approval of IdrA's reputation is any indication. And I don't mind the people who think calling something a joke has more to do with being insulting than with humor. I'm sure when they log off TL and return to their coloring books, they'll forget all about me. Now there's an insult and a joke in one! As I mentioned previously, calling something a joke implies it is devoid of any seriousness. Given that SirScoots thinks EG is serious business, he might feel inclined to see it as an insult albeit a mild one. They can be offended that my reaction to their serious business decisions is amusement but I'm still not insulting them. One could say I had a choice when I made the post to reveal whether or not I'm more inclined to laugh than to take them seriously. And one could argue that choosing to express something that could cause offense is being deliberately insulting. But that'd be a distortion of my act. What's really happening is I have an honest reaction and I report it accurately. There's no disconnection between what actually happened and what I want people to think happened. The notion that there is such a disconnection, or that there ought to be, is one of the very notions EG supports and one that I find particularly amusing. And that's what started this whole thing. Destiny disapproves of the deception and so do I. No one is compelling them to accurately report everything; privacy can be respected. But the deception? What a joke. After laughing so heartily and so often, it got to the point where withholding my laughter would be deceptive. Ha ha ha. I'm bathing in my transparent amusement of EG's amusing opacity. An act can be insulting without being deliberate. Your honest reaction can and probably is insulting to SirScoots and EG. I agree that there is no disconnectiong between your act and your intentions but it is fact that these are perceived as insulting by EG. Yeah definitely, and then we have to go into the meticulous study of separating out and defining the different kinds of acts and what they mean. I don't think the average TL.net user is up for that... But if we did, I would categorize my act as the type of act where it's not accurate to say I actively and deliberately insulted anyone. In other words, it's possible to be insulted without anyone doing the insulting, and that's what happened here! =]! Whatever I did, it wasn't an insult!
Tyler, you've unfortunately used up your quota of exclamation points for the rest of June, July, August, and the first half of the September. Let go of the shift key or we're going to have to start charging overage fees.
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Out of interest, when people reference Destiny in this discussion; did he say something about this specifically, and if so, what?
This is what Destiny said on Reddit and I agree with him on it
There's absolutely no problem with people trying to make money from e-sports.
There's absolutely no problem with people pulling sponsored members from shows when there are competing interests.
The problem is that people have to be so deceptive about everything, I feel like it shows a lack of respect to the community/audience.
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On June 29 2011 06:17 MuseMike wrote:Show nested quote +On June 29 2011 06:14 mordek wrote:On June 29 2011 06:09 MuseMike wrote:On June 29 2011 06:07 mordek wrote:On June 29 2011 05:47 JimmyJRaynor wrote:On June 29 2011 05:25 Senx wrote:
Really sad about EG managment pretty much killing the greatest gaming podcast on the web by pulling out geoff and then being deceptive about it.
I don't understand why they cant just make an official statement as to why they did what they did. Atleast be honest with the community if you already managed to upset them.
i enjoy SOTG but let's get real here. it does not produce a revenue stream. placing highly in SC2 tournaments provides the high visibility EGs benefactor's require... SOTG provides zero value for the guys who pay the bills at EG. EG guys made shoutouts every appearance in this much-loved show. How is this possibly not the kind of exposure a sponsor would want to see... do they need fancy graphics and an actual ad to run? They don't have ads on the show 24/7 like the steelseries logo etc? The shoutout section is at the very end of the show and some people stop watching by then. That could be a factor, but who knows we only have info on the result of the decision, not specifics. I can't speak for everyone, but when a player invests his time to share thoughts and opinions on this game I love, I respect that. I appreciate that. Business terms: they generate a lot of goodwill with me. Maybe running the ads makes me subconciously more disposed to buy X product but when Tyler got sponsored by Stride I went to their Facebook and "liked" them. And when I buy gum, I am going to buy Stride gum. It wasn't the annoying commercial with people riding ostriches. It was Tyler showing up on Tuesday nights, giving his thoughts and making me laugh. Hopefully sponsors can take that for what it's worth. I bought stride gum, and I really liked his way of plugging it. It wasn't a logo plastered there for 3 hours, but it is up to what sponsors want. He gave us an honest reason to buy the gum. I agree with what you are saying. I think most people understand WHY EG would make the decision they did, they just disagree with how they went through with it. If the sponsors want an ad placed and ITG is the show for that then so be it, it is business most people will understand that. Just don't lie.
I think we're in agreeance 
I dislike the deception. I also think they're retarded to think this is possibly good for the sponsorship reasons. I understand why, but I think they missed something intangible. I just had a problem with the words "zero value". I think it's apparent with how ticked off people have been about this situation that there was plenty of goodwill (I know, not revenue, but also invaluable) thrown out the window.
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EPT
