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On November 03 2010 21:45 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
it is cheating because you have to remap the mouse buttons every time you go on to a new computer
No you don't, those buttons on the side by default work exactly the same as the number keys on your keyboard. Just because something has a ton of buttons doesn't automatically mean they have complicated macro functions on them. They are as much cheating as pressing the number keys on your keyboard is...which is not at all.
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Using the mouse with the default key mapping (1,2,...,0 or NumPad keys) will not get you banned. It's the same with Logitech gaming keyboards, just using them is no problem.
The moment you actually work with macros, e.g. substituting multiple actions with a single click of a button, you create an unfair advantage - you cheat. And can get banned.
See this thread as well:
http://www.teamliquid.net/forum/viewmessage.php?topic_id=146760
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Thanks for the responses everyone 
I want to be clear. I have never used macros on this mouse. I just find the positioning for the keys more comfortable and easier to use. Its just the location of the same keys. I want to know if this function ALONE is banned at LAN tournaments (not online), not the macros.
@ drewbie. Would they not allow the use of this mouse at MLG? Without macros of course, just using the number keys on the side instead of your keyboard.
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Why would they not let you use it for SC2 when they let you use it for WoW? You're not remapping anything.
Why the hell does the number key row have to be above your QWERTY?
And more importantly, can anyone please point to an official source that says anything about banning this specific function, instead of talking about macros.
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On November 03 2010 21:44 drewbie.root wrote:
they wont let u use this at lan's but any online tournament is probably ok, I don't think that the mouse actually helps you though, there are more important things to do with your mouse hand than binding hotkeys o-o
afaik you can use this at MLG (other LANs might ban), as long as the buttons are only 1 press = 1 key/action.
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On relation to the discussion, I used to use Steelseries' MMO mouse but eventually just opted for an old mouse. currently using a logitech click! that I bought back in like 2000, or 2002. (was one of the first mainstream optical mice)
As drewbie said, some LANs may ban these mice, others wont. This was some of the reason I decided to switch. The other is comfort/percision. A thing to keep in mind is that one of the things to keep in mind with a mouse is simplicity. Another PC may not have your specific driver or version for that mouse, so any of the super 'techy' mice will always carry the liability of not allowing you to get your mouse to as close to perfect precision that you are used to.
If you want to use it I'd say go for it, but if it becomes a dependency or a crutch then I would avoid something like this.
Also for the record the comfort level of these types of mice are usually extremely low compared to any generic mouse.
+ Show Spoiler +
Pic above is the mouse I use. Almost a decade old but best one I've ever had.
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Thanks for the response Agh. I figure that a lot of other tournaments would take base their rules on bigger tournaments like MLG. Do you have any links to rulesets that say 1 press - 1 action is ok?
I don't feel the mouse is a crutch to me. It doesn't need any drivers installed. The number keys on the side are simply the same as the numbers on the keyboard, just in a new location. Other than that its a completely normal mouse.
I am pretty dependent on it though, I've tried playing without it and I am a lot worse. That's just because I'm very used to it now after having used it for several months. My only concern is arriving at a lan tourney and having someone say "what's this mouse? you can't use that, its cheating!"
People seem to have different opinions on it. The most common one I find is that 1 key - 1 action is fine. If this is the case in lan tournaments I'd rather not switch because I honestly love this mouse. I just need to be sure.
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On November 03 2010 21:45 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
it is cheating because you have to remap the mouse buttons every time you go on to a new computer
This isn't the case for the Genius Ergo 555 or the CM Storm Sentinel, they both have onboard processors and 64k of memory to store 5 sets of macros/keybinds/dpi settings... you name it. They have 5 extra buttons (not including LMB/RMB) so you can have a total of 25 individual macros on your mouse alone.
You don't require any special drivers to be installed for those particular mice providing it has already been programmed once. I've even programmed one of my Ergo 555s and used it on my mac and it still worked fine because it was all happening in the hardware.
That said I'm sure they are still (and should be) banned in tournaments because you can automate a ridiculous amount of things with them.
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GxZ (vVv player) uses this.. and also used this during MLG DC and it was fine. As long as one button is assigned to one hotkey or etc. (Default mapping) you are fine. Macro's and etc made using the software and bound to the keys is illegal and that goes for keyboard with macro keys as well (Logitech G15)
Any other questions about it please feel free to msg. But all North American lans should be okay with this.
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I actually use one and I really like it. I can't tell you about the key bindings on the side; I do not use those at all.
When my last mouse died, I tried literally every mouse out there that I could get my hands on and the Naga just fits my hand perfectly. I can't explain it.(For me anyway) It's just so comfortable to use. If they had a model with the same shape on no buttons on the side, I'd probably opt for that.
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I've been using the Razer Naga for about a year now. Not having used anything previously gaming wise except for a Razer Deathadder I will have to tell you that the Naga is one of the smallest mice Razer has to offer.
I play with the setting at 5600DPI ever since I bought it. The buttons on the side are not hard to hit nor do they get in the way. It is not illegal to use this mouse, the 12 buttons on the side are just like the 12 buttons from 1234567890-= on the keyboard.
1 to 1 keybindings are A-OKAY by Blizzard. And that's exactly what this is. Personally I find it more useful and easier in terms of macro-ing because I'm really not that fast at hitting keys to begin with. Take it for what you will but I love this mouse and it hasn't let me down yet.
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So basically, if you're crap and can't use hotkeys properly - use this mouse.
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On November 04 2010 00:37 limonovich wrote:
So basically, if you're crap and can't use hotkeys properly - use this mouse.
How is it not using hotkeys? Pressing a button on a mouse instead of clicking the portrait = hotkey, so what are you talking about?
It's funny how some people are against this, it doesnt make any sense. I should be able to use whatever i want as long as i dont use macros.
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I got a Naga, Salmosa Asia Edition, Logitech G9, Deathadder, Diamondback and a Abyssus. I tell you, first i also thought its great with all these Buttons on the Side for CTRL Grps etc. but you lose lots of accuracy with it, every time you Press Buttons on the Mouse you actually MOVE the Mouse. The more Buttons you use the more you have to Press and lose Accuracy.
Then i played with the other Mice, the G9 is great actually, but for my personal Taste little bit to heavy. The Salmosa (asia edition) is good but to small imho. I sticked to the Abyssus, works well for me, small (not to small..) not heavy etc.
Imho People really should learn to use the Keyboard for all stuff and the Mouse ONLY for Accurate movements etc. it made me better at the Game, more than 50 Buttons on a Mouse ever could.
btw. Shame on Blizzard banning People using Makro Keyboards, forbidding it on LAN is one Point... but not allowing People to usw their Hardware at Home with a Game they also paid Money for and making the Game useless then... really a Shame, and i am disappointed too by Blizzard actually. Wonder what happens with Keyboard where you can record Macros on the fly with the Keyboarrd itself instead of with the Driver? You will get banned, too? Thats a complete joke, Blizzard sells with Razer a Keyboard... unlogical.
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i don't own a naga nor plan on doing so but i have tried it once or twice at the store. it's not as bad as it looks but my one concern is that at high apm (200+ Sc2 APM) how feasible is it to be pressing the sides of the mouse, consistently hitting and remapping hotkeys. I play zerg and i can't fathom switching around all my bases and units in the mid-late game @ my measly 140 apm on that mouse.
as far as lan gaming, i don't think it would be outlawed by the people there. Also, the beauty of sc1 and sc2 is that each of your hands are doing lot of movement. Your right hand uses the mouse to select units, pan the screen, click and what not. your left hand issues commands to buildings and units while selecting buildings and units. Accessing the hotkeys on your right hand imo is taking out the balance between the coordination of both hands and would lean the game more to mouse control.
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On November 04 2010 00:37 limonovich wrote:
So basically, if you're crap and can't use hotkeys properly - use this mouse.
Basically, if you have nothing to add to the conversation except colossal ignorance - make this post.
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On November 04 2010 00:44 nodq wrote:
Imho People really should learn to use the Keyboard for all stuff and the Mouse ONLY for Accurate movements etc. it made me better at the Game, more than 50 Buttons on a Mouse ever could.
There Naga seems great for 8-0. If you bind noncritical things like upgrade structures to those, you can still use 1-7 for units and critical macro buildings.
Using nothing but the Naga buttons for all control groups seems really imprecise and bad.
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On November 04 2010 00:37 limonovich wrote:
So basically, if you're crap and can't use hotkeys properly - use this mouse.
The only thing a Naga can do for you is make the buttons for control groups available on the mouse instead of the keyboard. Next time, just read what the topic is about and what said hardware actually can and can't do.
Regarding the Naga for SC2:
I switched from my Naga to a Razer Salmosa. I initially wanted to use the Numpad buttons for control goups, but wasn't happy with the general performance of the mouse in an RTS. The Naga's problems have been mentioned before (at least some of them), and they're pretty much what I experienced as well:
- the Naga is heavier than the Salmosa
- working with the side buttons always moves the mouse
- several buttons can't be easily accessed without hitting other buttons, this includes 3-4 of the side buttons (always hit other side buttons) and the M4/M5 buttons (often hit left mouse button)
And last but not least: The Naga has an ergonomical form, which is awesome when you plan to rest your hand on your mouse for a long time. But when you're hectically moving the mouse around trying to do stuff in SC2, you often literally lose control over the mouse - it just slips away or it takes forever to reposition the fingers properly.
The Naga is an awesome MMO mouse, that's for sure - I utilized the extra buttons a lot when still playing WoW, and the form of the mouse + the weight make for a comfortable experience when using it for a long period of time (e.g. a raid night). But for the precision and speed you need in SC2, I'd very much recommend a lighter and more basic mouse.
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The Naga isn't designed for RTS use (the clue is in the name) so at high levels of gameplay I really doubt it would give any advantage over a regular mouse due to the loss of accuracy as has been mentioned. Those buttons really come into play in games where mouse accuracy isn't the primary concern (like MMOs for instance).
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On November 03 2010 21:45 iPlaY.NettleS wrote:
it is cheating because you have to remap the mouse buttons every time you go on to a new computer
Not necessarily. The buttons are automatically recognized as 0 - 9 on your top row of keys or on your number pad. Excuse my lack of terminology, but the buttons are not identified as third party "special keys".
Some may worry that you might unnecessarily hit the buttons on your mouse, but I have never done so. The buttons take a good amount of pressure to activate them, but that being said, I don't feel any loss of control over my mouse when I move my thumb to press the 1-12 buttons on my mouse. The only awkward keys that I can attest to are the two keys positioned to the left on the left mouse button. Those keys (which are commonly used as "forward" and "back" on web browsers) are really hard to use, but then again, I don't use them.
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EPT![[image loading]](http://img.tomshardware.com/us/2003/10/20/optical_mice/logitechoptical.jpg)
